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View Full Version : I don't play For Honor for fun anymore



DoctorMcBatman
11-12-2018, 07:32 PM
This is not a "you ruined the game I'm uninstalling post," but it is close to that.

I used to play FH for at least an hour pretty much every day from Feb 2017 - Sept 2018. I took a month or so break to do Mass Effect Andromeda in 2017, and I rolled back my FH play recently when AC: Odyssey came out. But ever since Marching Fire dropped, I've been unable to play FH for longer than 20-30 minutes. Now, I just play when I literally have 15-20 minutes to kill before going out or eating dinner or waiting for a TV show, etc.. I no longer just wake up and want to load up the game for fun.

The removal of gear stats is a big reason. I just don't feel like the time I put into my heroes has been rewarded at all. The perks are stupidly situational AND somehow make the Dominion experience less fair than it was previously (you can look at my posting history for my anecdotal evidence of this).

But really, this was the final strike in a long line of blunders, frustrations, and uncertainties.

The game has been out for close to two years, and it is still riddled with balance problems. The competitive community (and even the casual community) is fairly uniform on what needs reworking, nerfing, and buffing. But we rarely see that advice adhered to in patch notes, we even sometimes see the opposite of these suggestions (like nerfing Ara and Shug).

And I am tired of having massive mechanical/gameplay/etc. changes every 3-4 months. Some of them have been warranted, but I'm just not interested in relearning how to play 3-4 times a year. The game has gone from turtle meta to light spam meta, which isn't much better. t I'm a casual player who plays for fun (or used to at least). I can block 500ms lights semi-reliably, but I don't enjoy that being the predominant form of fighting in many Dominion games. Turtle meta wasn't fun either, but at least it required you to use your mind rather than mashing light spam chains. I don't have a good solution to this, I know I'm sounding contradictory in saying I don't like either. I really think FH needs to be scrapped and remade with keeping the Art of Battle concept, but with almost everything else being different.

This may sound oddly personal and trivial, but I am sick of all of the colors on my screen with charged attacks and dodge attacks and weird symbols etc.. I don't know why these were added to these attacks post-release. It just looks gimmicky and less like the medieval brawler I thought it would be/it was supposed to be, and more like a Tekken match done from 3rd person view.

I've also become increasingly concerned with how Ubi's "games as a service" philosophy has affected development/updates. I used to really like this idea for gaming, but now I'm not so sure. Yes, I know the Art and Balance and Design and Networking team are separate. But money is money. If you spend X amount of dollars on developing Marching Fire, that's X amount of money not being spent on quality of life updates like bug fixing and balance changes.

I think the vast majority of the community would agree we want less new content and more upkeep of the old/current content. Perhaps that doesn't sound as profitable to Ubisoft. I'm not criticizing necessarily, business is business whether its video games, cars, etc..

I know game developers are just people too, trying their best. And perhaps even some junior level devs are frustrated with these decisions like we are. But at the end of the day, FH is no longer fun for me. Glad people are still enjoying it. But I will have to hope for new IPs to fill this void in my gamer life.

SicKno86
11-12-2018, 07:45 PM
Things end.

Im still playing RDR2 and having a blast. I play one match of Breach and im annoyed. So if i can choose between having a blast and getting annoyed, the choice is easy.

Lightspam.
Lag.
Terrible teammates.
Gank Squads.
Unbalanced Heroes.
No reason to level up.
Tons of hatemail (eventhough that's actually quite funny)

There's no reason to play. Maybe if a new hero comes out i'll play again for the hell of it.

Blitzwarrior771
11-12-2018, 08:15 PM
Play 4vs bots breach mode thatís what Iím doing from now on itís more fun and not so frustrating .

Lord_Cherubi
11-12-2018, 08:17 PM
This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic but how is Odyssey? I've only played Black Flag but i loved it, even tho the difficulty was pretty pathetic 😅

DoctorMcBatman
11-12-2018, 08:34 PM
Things end.

Yes, it's saddening.


Play 4vs bots breach mode thatís what Iím doing from now on itís more fun and not so frustrating .

Hah. If I wanted to put a hole the wall here I'd play vs. bots. The bot AI is laughable and has been for pretty much the game's entire existence. Playing vs. bots just doesn't feel as good as playing against a real person. Glad it's working for you though.


This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic but how is Odyssey? I've only played Black Flag but i loved it, even tho the difficulty was pretty pathetic 

Very good. It is not a Witcher killer, but it's a pretty good action RPG. It is not by any means a full RPG as some claim, but it's a good step toward that. Odyssey is worth the price tag. There are some problems, but it's overall a very good game. If you like BF and found it too easy, you should like Odyssey as it's similarly naval focused and is a bit harder due to the new combat system.

Knight_Raime
11-12-2018, 10:13 PM
I feel for you. Personally I have more fun now with for honor than I ever have. This is due to the removal of gear stats Which it combined with the deminishing returns on hit stun means 4's are a viable place for me to play in now. Breach despite it's many flaws is still probably the best mode this game has ever had. And the new heros are all very good. But not brokenly so. It gives me hope for the design of future heros. Something I didn't experience at all even with Shaman.

chukblok
11-12-2018, 10:16 PM
I feel for you. Personally I have more fun now with for honor than I ever have. This is due to the removal of gear stats Which it combined with the deminishing returns on hit stun means 4's are a viable place for me to play in now. Breach despite it's many flaws is still probably the best mode this game has ever had. And the new heros are all very good. But not brokenly so. It gives me hope for the design of future heros. Something I didn't experience at all even with Shaman.

I seem to be on the same page as KR lately. I just play bots...it just made me able to have fun again instead of getting so frustrated. Ive accepted that im not sure a unique game like this can ever truly be ďbalancedĒ...just like games such as overwatch etc cant really be.

ChampionRuby50g
11-13-2018, 02:51 AM
Iím the same. I play max 5 games of breach a week, less if Iím not home on weekends. I donít play Dominion at all, and all this is coming from a player whose been playing since day one. Itís just not enjoyable anymore. The idea behind the game is amazing, the execution is terrible though. With BF5 been released soon, and RDR2 been out with online coming soon, itís safe to say I wonít be playing FH again for a long time, at least until the devs acknowledge mistakes and pick their pace up. Iím sick of patches been as frequent as solar eclipses.

bannex19
11-13-2018, 03:17 AM
I used to compete my orders. Now I can hardly be bothered to log on. Resub my champ status? You're dreaming ubi. Find yourself a new game director

Helnekromancer
11-13-2018, 03:47 AM
I play mostly PvAI now, and jump into PvP to see if I can still beat the Wu Lin with my Nobushi. Regardless of the outcome I go back to PvAI.

If they for some odd reason removed PvAI I probably would stop playing this game.

Constantly having to react to fast light attacks and long iframe side dodges, along with ganks that causes your indicator to have a panic attack topped off with attacks going through my block makes playing PvP on console really stressful and frustrating.

MrB3NX
11-13-2018, 11:33 AM
you know what ?

at least when perks came out i'm no longer annoyed to play low rep heroes

and i'm so happy the rage meta is gone , it was very disgusting .

Playing_Mantis
11-13-2018, 01:24 PM
man that post was almost exactly how i feel too. what killed it for me lately is the 400 ms attacks from everywhere. it takes super concentration to deal with and the defense meta was so much more tactical. I really think they should have stuck with that meta and simply added a few more turtle openers to everyone who needed it. adding all these 400 ms lights are not fun at all. the new orochi is such a ****ing spam fest it makes me sick. bad game direction.. so like you ill log on maybe 2 times a week. i don't care about orders now and i just play until i get frustrated and quit. maybe to pros who are always on their game are fine with the spam lights but for me a more casual player its too much to deal with. not feeling tactical anymore. at this point i only think for honor 2 could save the game. giving bad characters faster attacks is just not the correct way to balance the game. orochi is a perfect example of a bad rework..kensai is a great example of a great rework. he is strong but for the right reasons. not that he can just spam attacks like the new balanced zerker with hyper armor and impossible to parry feint into light spam.. orochi and zerker are perfect examples of ****ty balances. even talk honestly.. i think u get the point..

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
11-13-2018, 02:25 PM
https://youtu.be/JFSLVxtJQa8

The original issue was parry since unlock tech was easily disposed of. What for honor should have done was get ride of parry or implemented unparriable heavies that do chip damage. Instead they implemented bashs and trap to counter block/parry on only some of the characters which has caused an imbalance and spam.
Also if they implemented chip health instead of revenge upon gank the game would be more 1v1 in a group battle. This means if you or the person you are fighting attempt to gank another before your battle is completed all you will do is add to the opponents health pool. This would promote honorable fighting and a less stressful game. It would be the end of deathballs and sideswipes. It would also be the end of epic wins against multiple opponents at the same time. It may not work in dominion but it would in breach. The area AIs like the commander and the guardians would be the exception to the rules.

They could also make it so being parried does not drain your stamina. They could make it where being bashed doesnt drain your stamina. This would make for a more fast pace game...but would rekt characters like centurion raider, conc, and shugoki.

DoctorMcBatman
11-13-2018, 06:35 PM
you know what ?

at least when perks came out i'm no longer annoyed to play low rep heroes

and i'm so happy the rage meta is gone , it was very disgusting .

I mean, was it really that much of an advantage to have stat modifiers (other than Revenge Gain which I agree needed nerfing/scrapping)? What I keep falling back on is: For Honor is about reaction time, prediction sense, and knowing/memorizing the roster. I think stat modifiers became a scapegoat for people not actually being that good at the game. I did play some low rep heroes during gear stats, but I never blamed 10-20% attack modifiers (giving an extra usually 3-5 points of damage per hit) for missing parries, missing blocks, whiffing GBs, etc.. Was there an advantage? Yes I'll admit that. But was it enough to determine a fight? On the macro level, I don't think so. There is a discrepancy in that a hero like PK direly needed attack modifiers, while HL or Raider maybe didn't - but scrapping the whole system is not a fix.

And again, I don't think the perks are more fair at all. You can recover your health out of nowhere and get a full shield and somehow people are getting Revenge more easily/often than they did with gear stats...

And in a funny way, the removal of gear stats has promoted turtling/dead space in combat because we no longer have stamina modifiers. In 4v4 play, you tend to use stamina a bit more than duels or 2v2, so if you're always running out or having to carefully manage it, that = not being as aggressive.

I know the China conspiracy is a bit funny. But the more I think about it, it makes sense. FH is doing poorly to OK in profits in the Western market. Well, Ubi decides to enter the Eastern market with a big expansion with Chinese heroes and introduction of perks. It's all conjecture, but it makes sense. Anyway, it's done and not changing so I won't say more on this (in this post at least).


man that post was almost exactly how i feel too. what killed it for me lately is the 400 ms attacks from everywhere. it takes super concentration to deal with and the defense meta was so much more tactical. I really think they should have stuck with that meta and simply added a few more turtle openers to everyone who needed it. adding all these 400 ms lights are not fun at all. the new orochi is such a ****ing spam fest it makes me sick. bad game direction.. so like you ill log on maybe 2 times a week. i don't care about orders now and i just play until i get frustrated and quit. maybe to pros who are always on their game are fine with the spam lights but for me a more casual player its too much to deal with. not feeling tactical anymore. at this point i only think for honor 2 could save the game. giving bad characters faster attacks is just not the correct way to balance the game. orochi is a perfect example of a bad rework..kensai is a great example of a great rework. he is strong but for the right reasons. not that he can just spam attacks like the new balanced zerker with hyper armor and impossible to parry feint into light spam.. orochi and zerker are perfect examples of ****ty balances. even talk honestly.. i think u get the point..

Yeah while I'm okay with the 500ms attacks, the amount of 400ms attack is getting out of hand. These are supposed to be prediction detectable, but I'm not interested in sitting in the training arena to learn how to counter every possible 400ms move. Some players like that and it's fine, I don't.


https://youtu.be/JFSLVxtJQa8

The original issue was parry since unlock tech was easily disposed of. What for honor should have done was get ride of parry or implemented unparriable heavies that do chip damage. Instead they implemented bashs and trap to counter block/parry on only some of the characters which has caused an imbalance and spam.
Also if they implemented chip health instead of revenge upon gank the game would be more 1v1 in a group battle. This means if you or the person you are fighting attempt to gank another before your battle is completed all you will do is add to the opponents health pool. This would promote honorable fighting and a less stressful game. It would be the end of deathballs and sideswipes. It would also be the end of epic wins against multiple opponents at the same time. It may not work in dominion but it would in breach. The area AIs like the commander and the guardians would be the exception to the rules.

They could also make it so being parried does not drain your stamina. They could make it where being bashed doesnt drain your stamina. This would make for a more fast pace game...but would rekt characters like centurion raider, conc, and shugoki.

This is something I think about. Not your suggestions specifically (though I like some), but the fact that For Honor had a really great concept to offer when it was released. There was something, dare I say, magical there. It really felt that way for the first few months (except the connection issues). But the direction the game went started to feel inconsistent with what it was initially. I'm not saying the release build didn't have mechanical problems: it certainly did. But I don't love the solutions to those problems.

EDIT: I also want to add I have 766 hours on FH, and 486 in PVP according to Uplay. Even the PVP figure is more hours than I put into Skyrim and The Witcher 3, combined. So it's not like I'm trying to be a hater LOL

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
11-13-2018, 10:42 PM
I mean, was it really that much of an advantage to have stat modifiers (other than Revenge Gain which I agree needed nerfing/scrapping)? What I keep falling back on is: For Honor is about reaction time, prediction sense, and knowing/memorizing the roster. I think stat modifiers became a scapegoat for people not actually being that good at the game. I did play some low rep heroes during gear stats, but I never blamed 10-20% attack modifiers (giving an extra usually 3-5 points of damage per hit) for missing parries, missing blocks, whiffing GBs, etc.. Was there an advantage? Yes I'll admit that. But was it enough to determine a fight? On the macro level, I don't think so. There is a discrepancy in that a hero like PK direly needed attack modifiers, while HL or Raider maybe didn't - but scrapping the whole system is not a fix.

And again, I don't think the perks are more fair at all. You can recover your health out of nowhere and get a full shield and somehow people are getting Revenge more easily/often than they did with gear stats...

And in a funny way, the removal of gear stats has promoted turtling/dead space in combat because we no longer have stamina modifiers. In 4v4 play, you tend to use stamina a bit more than duels or 2v2, so if you're always running out or having to carefully manage it, that = not being as aggressive.

I know the China conspiracy is a bit funny. But the more I think about it, it makes sense. FH is doing poorly to OK in profits in the Western market. Well, Ubi decides to enter the Eastern market with a big expansion with Chinese heroes and introduction of perks. It's all conjecture, but it makes sense. Anyway, it's done and not changing so I won't say more on this (in this post at least).



Yeah while I'm okay with the 500ms attacks, the amount of 400ms attack is getting out of hand. These are supposed to be prediction detectable, but I'm not interested in sitting in the training arena to learn how to counter every possible 400ms move. Some players like that and it's fine, I don't.



This is something I think about. Not your suggestions specifically (though I like some), but the fact that For Honor had a really great concept to offer when it was released. There was something, dare I say, magical there. It really felt that way for the first few months (except the connection issues). But the direction the game went started to feel inconsistent with what it was initially. I'm not saying the release build didn't have mechanical problems: it certainly did. But I don't love the solutions to those problems.

EDIT: I also want to add I have 766 hours on FH, and 486 in PVP according to Uplay. Even the PVP figure is more hours than I put into Skyrim and The Witcher 3, combined. So it's not like I'm trying to be a hater LOL

I completely agree. Maybe they should get rid of parry and just make deflecting slightly easier. Give deflect to assasins, keep vanguard as they are, and give all heavies passive HA with reflex guard.
The core mechanic of the game is too complicated now. All these GB, openers, and unblockables coming at you in ganks. It's not fun.

Siegfried-Z
11-14-2018, 11:23 AM
Same here guys.

From someone who plays since day 1 too.

I've played yesterday evening with a friends and after few games i've asked him "can you tell me the last time we've got a good time with a gaming FH session?".. he says "Don't even remember that man"".

I had huge hopes with MF, because, to me, Perks while frustrating to start from scratch are a good things, Breach is on the paper the best mode we ever have and Feats has been nerfed.

But... i'm tired to see Ubi making Char Noobs fitting. JJ is easy mode, Shaolin makes moest old char feels like GrandPa, Tiandi is the first Spam Vanguard.
Tired to see the game beeing made for PC..
And above all tired of the broken MatchMaking... i don't play FH because i like to carry my team mates.

So, i'm like, hell, i love 4v4 but MM, Spam and Unbalance char makes me crazy.. no fun anymore. Then, go to duel ! And then i remenber how people plays in Duel, Staring contest... that's not for me.

That's bad for such an amazing game to have such basics problem even most old PS3 games did'nt have.

Inzzane_79
11-14-2018, 03:27 PM
I also started playing vs the AI more. At least they throw in a heavy attack every now and then and donīt spam lights all day long. If the AI would now stop trying to revive when getting beaten that would be cool cause itīs just not fun to murder them because they are programmed to help a dead teammate instead of protecting their own life.