PDA

View Full Version : Requesting the devs the buff weak heroes rather than nurfing the strong ones



dedric_branford
11-08-2018, 08:27 PM
Strong heros usually have good openers which forces reaction . i would not like to see the old defensive meta come back.

Ubiflowessence
11-08-2018, 08:54 PM
It seems that everyone shares differing opinions on which heroes are strong and weak. In your opinion, which heroes do you consider to be weak or strong, and why?

Blitzwarrior771
11-08-2018, 08:56 PM
Just nerf defense more this is what killing the game . All they really do is keep switching guard constantly . This mechanic is broken . Penalty of few seconds between switching the guards so if u guess wrong direction u get punished .

iadvisoryi
11-08-2018, 09:00 PM
Just nerf defense more this is what killing the game . All they really do is keep switching guard constantly . This mechanic is broken . Penalty of few seconds between switching the guards so if u guess wrong direction u get punished .

That's the most ridiculous request I've ever seen ever. Fast attacks already dominate the game, think about what you believe is fair

Blitzwarrior771
11-08-2018, 09:06 PM
I hate to be right but defense is Brocken mechanic .

Kargish1
11-08-2018, 10:52 PM
Yes, because I too want a spam fiesta.
Imo defense should be supreme and health should be lower.

dedric_branford
11-08-2018, 11:11 PM
i belief strong heros are the ones with a valid opener. for instance warden's shoulder bash forces a reaction . kensei has his pummel strike or guard break opener.
The conqueror can delay his bash which forces the opponents to make a read.
The shaman has her wide range of mix up tool for forcing reaction.

the weaker ones are the heros that cannot force the opponents to make a move .basically no valid openers. law bringer centurian and shokugeki cannot force their opponents to make a move . their opponents can just become a wall.

dedric_branford
11-08-2018, 11:21 PM
Not saying anything about the Wu lin heroes because the player base did not adept to their new play style .

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
11-09-2018, 02:53 AM
That's the most ridiculous request I've ever seen ever. Fast attacks already dominate the game, think about what you believe is fair


I hate to be right but defense is Brocken mechanic .

I would not say no to chip damage except on parry. If each of the three classes has different reflex guard timings I would not say no to that either but I doubt that would help the game any. Even with reflex guard it's not hard to block most attacks. If parry was stagnant to original guard position...well that alone would break the turtle meta. Not that I agree with you but I don't disagree with you in this because it's unverifiable currently.

If defense is infact broken as you say then there is no reason to Nerf it. What I believe you mean is that defense mechanic is over powered. Correct?

Given that it feels like for honor is in a spam/bash/freehit/trap Renaissance period I would wager against the guard mechanic being overpowered...It is likely that the all block is over powered by its own nature though....so I'm sort of up in the are about this.

Kryltic
11-09-2018, 02:57 AM
I disagree. Powerful characters should be toned down considerably. Older characters should be beefed up but new characters should not be so far ahead as to ruin older characters.

If not then it's going to boil down to "he who hits successfully first, wins".

darksavior1977
11-09-2018, 05:49 AM
Strong heroes:
Kensei, Warden, Conqueror, Berzerker, Highlander, Shaman, Valkyrie, Tiandi, Shaolin, Jiang Jun,

Weak Heroes Needing reworks:
Peacekeeper, Raider, Lawdad...bringer, Shugoki

Heroes not weak enough to need a full rework but needing some tweaks/buffs:
Gladiator, Centurion, Warlord, Aramusha, Orochi, Nobushi, Shinobi, Nuxia

I am not going to go into specific detail about what tweaks, buffs, and reworks I think are needed here, but that is my general perception of where the heroes stand now. Top tier players are good enough that they can make most any character work, because they all have the same baseline mechanics for revenge, blocks, dodges, and parries, but in my view, several heroes have to work really hard at it compared to others. I also think the weak ones should be brought up to the strong ones, not the other way around, because the strong ones are working well in the game as it stands, and help eliminate the eternal turtle meta. The weak ones need more offense and defense options, and the reworks are just that, these characters no longer make sense in the current state of the game with more aggressive offense and ways to penetrate defenses and force reactions.

I will offer that I think at this stage of the game, and in response to it becoming more offensive to break the turtling, all characters should have a solid opener, strong light/heavy mixups, soft feints as well as hard, and a heavy unblockable (not the zone attack) in their kit imo.

dedric_branford
11-09-2018, 09:35 AM
I disagree. Powerful characters should be toned down considerably. Older characters should be beefed up but new characters should not be so far ahead as to ruin older characters.

If not then it's going to boil down to "he who hits successfully first, wins".

not necessarily mix ups can also be countered my making reads. if a hero want to hit 1st then it can be countered by a number of ways. like kensei can use his side dodge heavys.
the key part is have a mixup tool that forces reads.
A weak hero can defeat a strong hero by countering his attacks style, that does not mean U nerf the strong hero with a mix up tool . Giving the weak hero with a valid mixup tool is better .

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
11-09-2018, 09:51 AM
Strong heroes:
Kensei, Warden, Conqueror, Berzerker, Highlander, Shaman, Valkyrie, Tiandi, Shaolin, Jiang Jun,

Weak Heroes Needing reworks:
Peacekeeper, Raider, Lawdad...bringer, Shugoki

Heroes not weak enough to need a full rework but needing some tweaks/buffs:
Gladiator, Centurion, Warlord, Aramusha, Orochi, Nobushi, Shinobi, Nuxia

I am not going to go into specific detail about what tweaks, buffs, and reworks I think are needed here, but that is my general perception of where the heroes stand now. Top tier players are good enough that they can make most any character work, because they all have the same baseline mechanics for revenge, blocks, dodges, and parries, but in my view, several heroes have to work really hard at it compared to others. I also think the weak ones should be brought up to the strong ones, not the other way around, because the strong ones are working well in the game as it stands, and help eliminate the eternal turtle meta. The weak ones need more offense and defense options, and the reworks are just that, these characters no longer make sense in the current state of the game with more aggressive offense and ways to penetrate defenses and force reactions.

I will offer that I think at this stage of the game, and in response to it becoming more offensive to break the turtling, all characters should have a solid opener, strong light/heavy mixups, soft feints as well as hard, and a heavy unblockable (not the zone attack) in their kit imo.

I agree nearly 100 percent with this list except Pk just needs her old kit back to be viable and Valkyrie needs her old shield tackle kit so people will actually use her otherwise she is a one trick pony like raider.

dedric_branford
11-09-2018, 09:52 AM
Strong heroes:
Kensei, Warden, Conqueror, Berzerker, Highlander, Shaman, Valkyrie, Tiandi, Shaolin, Jiang Jun,

Weak Heroes Needing reworks:
Peacekeeper, Raider, Lawdad...bringer, Shugoki

Heroes not weak enough to need a full rework but needing some tweaks/buffs:
Gladiator, Centurion, Warlord, Aramusha, Orochi, Nobushi, Shinobi, Nuxia

I am not going to go into specific detail about what tweaks, buffs, and reworks I think are needed here, but that is my general perception of where the heroes stand now. Top tier players are good enough that they can make most any character work, because they all have the same baseline mechanics for revenge, blocks, dodges, and parries, but in my view, several heroes have to work really hard at it compared to others. I also think the weak ones should be brought up to the strong ones, not the other way around, because the strong ones are working well in the game as it stands, and help eliminate the eternal turtle meta. The weak ones need more offense and defense options, and the reworks are just that, these characters no longer make sense in the current state of the game with more aggressive offense and ways to penetrate defenses and force reactions.

I will offer that I think at this stage of the game, and in response to it becoming more offensive to break the turtling, all characters should have a solid opener, strong light/heavy mixups, soft feints as well as hard, and a heavy unblockable (not the zone attack) in their kit imo.

I strongly agree with your opinion . U summarized the information in an proper manner. heroes that are weak ones should employ proper offense.i Cannot find many players that like the old meta.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
11-09-2018, 09:58 AM
I liked the turtle meta. It took better reaction time then just mashing buttons to win like an orochi is known for.

Goat_of_Vermund
11-09-2018, 10:04 AM
Pk's old kit was more limited than the current, her damage made up for it, so turtles were really effective with her. I don't think she should be a parry god, she should be an offensive hero (though they should buff the damage, it should be nothing near it was). Pk should be a fast, mobile and mixup intensive hero, with short range, low damage and bad defense/low punishes as drawback. We are halfway with her, she got the drawbacks, now she needs some advantages.

dedric_branford
11-09-2018, 10:12 AM
I liked the turtle meta. It took better reaction time then just mashing buttons to win like an orochi is known for.

Dude remember the long stare downs player experienced during the trutle meta?
playing duels seemed soo frustrating i would rage quit. the player that attacked 1st would usually lose in the trutle meta. thet would just wait for u to make a move.

really thankful ti the devs for removing the turtle meta

Siegfried-Z
11-09-2018, 10:57 AM
It seems that everyone shares differing opinions on which heroes are strong and weak. In your opinion, which heroes do you consider to be weak or strong, and why?

First, i think you should have as main goal to consider Kensei or Valk as the level every char should be. They are strong but balanced. I really don't want every Char to be at JJ level...

But below, what you ask for in my opinion with as much details as possible (from rep 132 PS4 player) :

Knights :

Warden - Among Top Char in Duel and strong in 4V4
COnq - Best duelist and strong in 4V4
PK - Correct in 1v1 but very weak in 4V4
LB - Weak in 1v1 but still strong in 4V4
Cent - Correct in both
Glad - Very strong in 1v1 but very weak in 4V4

Vikings :

Raider - A bit weak in 1v1 but a real beast in 4v4
Warlord - Correct in Both
Zerk - Beast in 1v1 and strong in 4v4
valk - I believe among the top 1v1 char now but just correct in 4v4
HL - Good in both
Shaman - Strong too in Both

Samurais :

Kensei - Correct/good in 1v1 and really strong in 4v4
Shugo - Weak in 1v1 but still good in 4v4
Orochi - Correct in Both, a bit weak in 4v4
Nobushi - Weak in 1v1 but correct in 4v4
Shinobi - Strong in 1v1 and correct in 4v4
Musha - Correct in Both (a bit weak)

WuLin :

Tiandi : Good in both
JJ - Strong in 1v1 and Best of the game by far in 4v4
Shaolin - Very strong in 1v1 and strong in 4v4
Nuxia - Strong in 1v1 but weak in 4v4


So, to summer up.

Char which needs help in 1v1 :

LB - Maybe a faster shove from neutral and a softfeint on first heavy mix up ? I don't play LB so i'm of course not one of the best advices, LB main are welcome
Raider - Maybe speed up his opening lights and in another hands reduce by 5/10 dmg his zone
Shugo - What about his mix up on heavies and Ub becoming softfeint ? Now with hardfeint it is so slow you can just back dodge most of the times. He should also be able to front dash headbutt from neutral with following light. It would help him to be agressive and not threading all the times.
Nobushi - Just speed up her lights by 100ms

Char which needs help in 4v4 :

PK - She should having her old DMG back but with current kit OR if not then why not less stam cost on zone mix up and second hit of the zone UB. She needs something to kill faster in 4v4
Glad - Glad problem in 4v4 is his broken Guard. Glad guard should become as long as others assassins, that's important. He should also has guaranteed light after a punch


Char overall ok but which needs some work btw :

Cent - His zone should be feintable after first hit un his UB should be feintable
Warlord - He should be able to use full guard just as Conq, with softfeint and real guaranteed hit. He should also have heavy after a light UB to really force reaction
Roch - Where is the tozen kick ?
Nobu - I don't know how but something is needed
Musha - Give him back his old kit ! No ones asked these changes with MF and that just killed him. Plus, maybe a side heavy dash.

And, sorry but Conq and JJ should be nerf a bit.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
11-09-2018, 11:15 AM
Pk's old kit was more limited than the current, her damage made up for it, so turtles were really effective with her. I don't think she should be a parry god, she should be an offensive hero (though they should buff the damage, it should be nothing near it was). Pk should be a fast, mobile and mixup intensive hero, with short range, low damage and bad defense/low punishes as drawback. We are halfway with her, she got the drawbacks, now she needs some advantages.

Your right what I mean is her damage should be put back. PK was mix-up intensive and still is. The only problem with her is her damage output was Nerfed to the ground as well as her distance. She was definitely 's tier before so it stands to reason she would be viable if placed back to get original condition. Plus it's a simple request.

dedric_branford
11-09-2018, 11:17 AM
First, i think you should have as main goal to consider Kensei or Valk as the level every char should be. They are strong but balanced. I really don't want every Char to be at JJ level...

But below, what you ask for in my opinion with as much details as possible (from rep 132 PS4 player) :

Knights :

Warden - Among Top Char in Duel and strong in 4V4
COnq - Best duelist and strong in 4V4
PK - Correct in 1v1 but very weak in 4V4
LB - Weak in 1v1 but still strong in 4V4
Cent - Correct in both
Glad - Very strong in 1v1 but very weak in 4V4

Vikings :

Raider - A bit weak in 1v1 but a real beast in 4v4
Warlord - Correct in Both
Zerk - Beast in 1v1 and strong in 4v4
valk - I believe among the top 1v1 char now but just correct in 4v4
HL - Good in both
Shaman - Strong too in Both

Samurais :

Kensei - Correct/good in 1v1 and really strong in 4v4
Shugo - Weak in 1v1 but still good in 4v4
Orochi - Correct in Both, a bit weak in 4v4
Nobushi - Weak in 1v1 but correct in 4v4
Shinobi - Strong in 1v1 and correct in 4v4
Musha - Correct in Both (a bit weak)

WuLin :

Tiandi : Good in both
JJ - Strong in 1v1 and Best of the game by far in 4v4
Shaolin - Very strong in 1v1 and strong in 4v4
Nuxia - Strong in 1v1 but weak in 4v4


So, to summer up.

Char which needs help in 1v1 :

LB - Maybe a faster shove from neutral and a softfeint on first heavy mix up ? I don't play LB so i'm of course not one of the best advices, LB main are welcome
Raider - Maybe speed up his opening lights and in another hands reduce by 5/10 dmg his zone
Shugo - What about his mix up on heavies and Ub becoming softfeint ? Now with hardfeint it is so slow you can just back dodge most of the times. He should also be able to front dash headbutt from neutral with following light. It would help him to be agressive and not threading all the times.
Nobushi - Just speed up her lights by 100ms

Char which needs help in 4v4 :

PK - She should having her old DMG back but with current kit OR if not then why not less stam cost on zone mix up and second hit of the zone UB. She needs something to kill faster in 4v4
Glad - Glad problem in 4v4 is his broken Guard. Glad guard should become as long as others assassins, that's important. He should also has guaranteed light after a punch


Char overall ok but which needs some work btw :

Cent - His zone should be feintable after first hit un his UB should be feintable
Warlord - He should be able to use full guard just as Conq, with softfeint and real guaranteed hit. He should also have heavy after a light UB to really force reaction
Roch - Where is the tozen kick ?
Nobu - I don't know how but something is needed
Musha - Give him back his old kit ! No ones asked these changes with MF and that just killed him. Plus, maybe a side heavy dash.

And, sorry but Conq and JJ should be nerf a bit.

In season 6 recap the devs explicitly mentioned they are hesitant in nerfing strong tools. like the shield Bash. As U r a ps4 player reacting to a shield bash may be harder because of 30 fps.In Pc it can be countered my making proper reads. A proper gladiator can cause a lot of problems for a veteran conc player and destroy him. JJ does not have a proper opener. simply side dodging can help any hero to avoid his mix up.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
11-09-2018, 11:25 AM
Dude remember the long stare downs player experienced during the trutle meta?
playing duels seemed soo frustrating i would rage quit. the player that attacked 1st would usually lose in the trutle meta. thet would just wait for u to make a move.

really thankful ti the devs for removing the turtle meta

What you say is true. My concern isn't with duels but 4v4. Now in the spam meta its just a gank fest of spam bashes openers unblockables unreactables, charges (stampede/demons embrace) and freehits. One person who is good at turtling should not be cheesed out of his/her victory against a gank simply because he/she is bombarded by paralysing moves. It's not fun fair or epic.

Siegfried-Z
11-09-2018, 11:26 AM
In season 6 recap the devs explicitly mentioned they are hesitant in nerfing strong tools. like the shield Bash. As U r a ps4 player reacting to a shield bash may be harder because of 30 fps.In Pc it can be countered my making proper reads. A proper gladiator can cause a lot of problems for a veteran conc player and destroy him. JJ does not have a proper opener. simply side dodging can help any hero to avoid his mix up.

Yes of course PC and Console are different and that's why they stuggle at balancing the game.
About Glad, that's the point, i've already destroyed many Conq with him, but against fats attackers, he really have hard time.

I would not say JJ can't open, he can. And he can bait dodge if opponents use to avoid things like that.

marcosouza50
11-09-2018, 04:34 PM
I'm glad that the developers decided to talk about this, I'll put some regulatory points that in my opinion can improve the overall game.
please, what I am going to write is not even the absolute truth, so feel free to modify, disagree or agree with my ideas:

1- Avoidance with blows should only be used by pure non-hybrid assassins, and this blow after lateral dodging has to be a light blow I say this to - kensei, valkyrie
Kensei and a vanquardeiro that uses the lateral elbow followed by heavy blow and an exaggeration, never played a match that did not have a kensei amenos this shows that this hero stands above the others.

2- No opponent should be overthrown if he still has resistance say this to - centurion, valkyrie, shaman, shugoki and justiceiro.
Take down an opponent in a match of invasion or tribute domain and practically a death sentence.

3 - All teleportation moves should be completely removed from the game I say this to - shaolin, shinobi.
These movements, besides being unrealistic for the game's theme, bring great frustrations, especially in fights with more than one opponent.

4- automatic feints I consider the ability to cancel a blow in one direction in another direction in another direction and should be withdrawn from the game all heroes will have to use the feint canceling their blow, automatic feints are a disparity factor for the game if not to remove them from all the heroes this ability, I say this to - kensei, shaman, beserker pacifier, aramusha in the monento just remember these!

5- Quick strokes of 400ms in sequence should be only on the first stroke example first strike 400ms second stroke 500 and third 600ms say this to - orochi, aramusha.

6 - all assassin heroes would have equal defense I say this to - gladiator
The gladiator's defense is so weak that even veteran players do not get any consistent defense.

7- I am not able to avoid the wu lin the blows of them mainly Shaolin persecute me even using the correct time.
These are my initial thoughts, sorry for bad English.

dedric_branford
11-09-2018, 05:58 PM
I'm glad that the developers decided to talk about this, I'll put some regulatory points that in my opinion can improve the overall game.
please, what I am going to write is not even the absolute truth, so feel free to modify, disagree or agree with my ideas:

1- Avoidance with blows should only be used by pure non-hybrid assassins, and this blow after lateral dodging has to be a light blow I say this to - kensei, valkyrie
Kensei and a vanquardeiro that uses the lateral elbow followed by heavy blow and an exaggeration, never played a match that did not have a kensei amenos this shows that this hero stands above the others.

2- No opponent should be overthrown if he still has resistance say this to - centurion, valkyrie, shaman, shugoki and justiceiro.
Take down an opponent in a match of invasion or tribute domain and practically a death sentence.

3 - All teleportation moves should be completely removed from the game I say this to - shaolin, shinobi.
These movements, besides being unrealistic for the game's theme, bring great frustrations, especially in fights with more than one opponent.

4- automatic feints I consider the ability to cancel a blow in one direction in another direction in another direction and should be withdrawn from the game all heroes will have to use the feint canceling their blow, automatic feints are a disparity factor for the game if not to remove them from all the heroes this ability, I say this to - kensei, shaman, beserker pacifier, aramusha in the monento just remember these!

5- Quick strokes of 400ms in sequence should be only on the first stroke example first strike 400ms second stroke 500 and third 600ms say this to - orochi, aramusha.

6 - all assassin heroes would have equal defense I say this to - gladiator
The gladiator's defense is so weak that even veteran players do not get any consistent defense.

7- I am not able to avoid the wu lin the blows of them mainly Shaolin persecute me even using the correct time.
These are my initial thoughts, sorry for bad English.

About assassins, they use 400ms lights but still most of them are in B tier except berserker. and shaman cannot do 400 ms attacks. I would assassins need some else rather than 400ms lights like they should improve orochi's storm rush so that hw cannot he hit while doing the attack.
Automatic faints or soft faints are there to force a reaction. i think they work in the game and does not need buffing.
teleportation move are just fun . i dont think they are broken like gladiator's super powerful zone attack. shinobi was made with the idEA THAT HE IS FAST. the shaolin can teleport but it does the same damage like the shinobis star attack.
thirdly U said something about takedown attacks like demons embrace that shoguki uses.they exist for 4v4 purposes. in duel they do not provide a good offence. takedown moves are broken if used correctly . spamming this move will be futile.

Liccmysticc
11-09-2018, 06:32 PM
Iím a rep 14 14rep shugoki main and Iíve been trying to deal with armor being close to useless but this nerf has ruined my character to the point where I canít deal any damage or feint enough to win a match because of the stamina drain please buff this character he has be disabled unfairly why nerf low tiers????

dedric_branford
11-10-2018, 06:18 AM
I’m a rep 14 14rep shugoki main and I’ve been trying to deal with armor being close to useless but this nerf has ruined my character to the point where I can’t deal any damage or feint enough to win a match because of the stamina drain please buff this character he has be disabled unfairly why nerf low tiers????

Goki is gonna get a rework dont worry.

Buggy.Blaster
11-10-2018, 06:39 AM
I can't stand the new spam meta. ill take the defensive meta any day! all they needed to do was add more openers.. not change the meta to spam crap ****

matt89connor
11-10-2018, 11:22 AM
Strong heros usually have good openers which forces reaction . i would not like to see the old defensive meta come back.

is a good thing, but, if you watch well, zerk,conqueror, was weak heroes , and after they was buffed they become too strong, and still are too strong.

Me, like you, hate the Turtle , but this unblance is the conseguence to not have nerfing Parry sys for good on season 5.

If parry, was nerfed for good on season 5, 400ms attacks, super safe moves,shouldn't be needed in this game (there will be still other problems but not this unbalance between heroes)..

That's why, i think they should nerf Safe moves of Top tiers heroes, and buff the "weak" heroes

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
11-10-2018, 11:38 AM
There needs to be a balance between spam meta and turtle meta. If you just have a spam meta you might as well just play a hackandslash game..cuz that is exactly what for honor is becoming.

dedric_branford
11-10-2018, 01:05 PM
is a good thing, but, if you watch well, zerk,conqueror, was weak heroes , and after they was buffed they become too strong, and still are too strong.

Me, like you, hate the Turtle , but this unblance is the conseguence to not have nerfing Parry sys for good on season 5.

If parry, was nerfed for good on season 5, 400ms attacks, super safe moves,shouldn't be needed in this game (there will be still other problems but not this unbalance between heroes)..

That's why, i think they should nerf Safe moves of Top tiers heroes, and buff the "weak" heroes

do you mean a damage nerf . or mechanical nerf

dedric_branford
11-10-2018, 01:13 PM
is a good thing, but, if you watch well, zerk,conqueror, was weak heroes , and after they was buffed they become too strong, and still are too strong.

Me, like you, hate the Turtle , but this unblance is the conseguence to not have nerfing Parry sys for good on season 5.

If parry, was nerfed for good on season 5, 400ms attacks, super safe moves,shouldn't be needed in this game (there will be still other problems but not this unbalance between heroes)..

That's why, i think they should nerf Safe moves of Top tiers heroes, and buff the "weak" heroes

from my perspective if U initiate the mixup U should more advantage. if there is only a 50 percent chance a move will hit then it becomes rock paper and sissors. one party has to have the advantage and naturally its the attacker. this promotes an offensive play style instead of just waiting to see the the opponents do like a turtl

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
11-10-2018, 02:49 PM
from my perspective if U initiate the mixup U should more advantage. if there is only a 50 percent chance a move will hit then it becomes rock paper and sissors. one party has to have the advantage and naturally its the attacker. this promotes an offensive play style instead of just waiting to see the the opponents do like a turtl

Why would an attacker have an advantage over defense? That makes no sense. It would just depends on who is more prepared. Sure a sniper could attack a tank crew while they are in the tank...but it's a tank. A sniper (assasin) would attack a tank crew (heavy) when they are vulnerable.

dedric_branford
11-10-2018, 03:57 PM
Why would an attacker have an advantage over defense? That makes no sense. It would just depends on who is more prepared. Sure a sniper could attack a tank crew while they are in the tank...but it's a tank. A sniper (assasin) would attack a tank crew (heavy) when they are vulnerable.

one party has to have the advantage. we aint playing a fps here. in competitive fighting games the person who initiates offence has more advantage. like dragon ball fightrz or soul caliber 6. i want to see for honor become a competitive fighting game . not a game luck matters.IN fighting games attackers have the advantage see SL6 or tekken 7.

Wookiescantfly
11-10-2018, 05:18 PM
one party has to have the advantage. we aint playing a fps here. in competitive fighting games the person who initiates offence has more advantage. like dragon ball fightrz or soul caliber 6. i want to see for honor become a competitive fighting game . not a game luck matters.IN fighting games attackers have the advantage see SL6 or tekken 7.

But you see this isn't a traditional fighting game like Tekken 7 or SL6, or Dragon fighterz, or Soul Caliber 6. For Honor is more like a marriage between a RPG/Sword Fighter, like Kingdom Come: Deliverance or Mordhau, and a fighter, like Mortal Kombat, Tekken, Street Fighter, etc. The devs are probably having a really hard time trying to find a middle ground between the two. Hell, have you ever seen the original concept video for For Honor? It's more reminiscent of games like Mount and Blade, Chivalry, Deliverance, or Mordhau than what we have now. Link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSPhGUf_ZRs).

Tbh with a game like this it feels like the advantage is to whoever is more skilled (or just using the better character, for now at least)

dedric_branford
11-10-2018, 05:44 PM
But you see this isn't a traditional fighting game like Tekken 7 or SL6, or Dragon fighterz, or Soul Caliber 6. For Honor is more like a marriage between a RPG/Sword Fighter, like Kingdom Come: Deliverance or Mordhau, and a fighter, like Mortal Kombat, Tekken, Street Fighter, etc. The devs are probably having a really hard time trying to find a middle ground between the two. Hell, have you ever seen the original concept video for For Honor? It's more reminiscent of games like Mount and Blade, Chivalry, Deliverance, or Mordhau than what we have now. Link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSPhGUf_ZRs).

Tbh with a game like this it feels like the advantage is to whoever is more skilled (or just using the better character, for now at least)

Bear in mind i am speaking from a point of a duel match. 4v4 have different tier list. mix ups and openers are less important there.duels resemble tekken 7 and soul calibre 6 then kingdom come .games like kingdom come and mount and blade arent like for honor's intense fighting mechanics. I play the game competitively thinking its like the top fighting games.

I would love to see for honor reach the competative scene. feeling like a fighting game in a duel match means it would follow the concepts of a fighting game. the person who attack has more tools then the one who defends. Like tekken 7 , soul calibre and blazblue or guilty gear.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
11-10-2018, 05:58 PM
one party has to have the advantage. we aint playing a fps here. in competitive fighting games the person who initiates offence has more advantage. like dragon ball fightrz or soul caliber 6. i want to see for honor become a competitive fighting game . not a game luck matters.IN fighting games attackers have the advantage see SL6 or tekken 7.
Your right that one party has to have an advantage but that advantage should be random like a start of a football game. This is why I propose rock paper scissors for the classes. Heavy beats assassin, assassin beats vanguard, vanguard beats heavy....generally speaking.
The advantage doesn't have to be offense vs defense. And if for honor is going to every be truly competitive it's going to be in a 4v4 mode like breach where they play three games to decide who is better.
It is simply impossible to balance out the difference between heavy and assasins. Right now it's way in the assasins favor. Even if they rework heavies to be better that just means assassin class mains will demand a buff for them or a Nerf to heavies. It doesn't work.

Devils-_-legacy
11-10-2018, 06:06 PM
Your right that one party has to have an advantage but that advantage should be random like a start of a football game. This is why I propose rock paper scissors for the classes. Heavy beats assassin, assassin beats vanguard, vanguard beats heavy....

God no it should be a game of skill not rock paper scissors I don't like the current state of most heavys as a free win like shug but this just sounds worse they just need a Kensei level of rework without making them bash happy like a Conq rework and people always call for nurfs if it's a decent rework as a mainly assassin/hybrid player Id be happy with heavys getting a major buff might even pick my Shug up again

dedric_branford
11-10-2018, 06:08 PM
Your right that one party has to have an advantage but that advantage should be random like a start of a football game. This is why I propose rock paper scissors for the classes. Heavy beats assassin, assassin beats vanguard, vanguard beats heavy....generally speaking.
The advantage doesn't have to be offense vs defense. And if for honor is going to every be truly competitive it's going to be in a 4v4 mode like breach where they play three games to decide who is better.
It is simply impossible to balance out the difference between heavy and assasins. Right now it's way in the assasins favor. Even if they rework heavies to be better that just means assassin class mains will demand a buff for them or a Nerf to heavies. It doesn't work.

About 4v4 if U see charts vanguards and heavys dominate in that mode. whether its breach or 4v4 dominion. I play on pc rep 65 total and usually vanguards and heavy perform better in 4v4.

U dont have to look far just look at kensei . he performs soo well in 4v4 with his range and ganking abilities. look at warlord with his unlock attacks he dominates in dominoin

dedric_branford
11-10-2018, 06:12 PM
God no it should be a game of skill not rock paper scissors I don't like the current state of most heavys as a free win like shug but this just sounds worse they just need a Kensei level of rework without making them bash happy like a Conq rework and people always call for nurfs if it's a decent rework as a mainly assassin player Id be happy with heavys getting a major buff

thats why I was comparing this game to a competative fighting game like tekken 7 where the individual who starts the offense has more advantage. If U follow the fundamentals of a fighting game attacker HAVE MORE ADVANTAGE THEN DEFENDERS.

Devils-_-legacy
11-10-2018, 06:20 PM
thats why I was comparing this game to a competative fighting game like tekken 7 where the individual who starts the offense has more advantage. If U follow the fundamentals of a fighting game attacker HAVE MORE ADVANTAGE THEN DEFENDERS.

Yeah this isn't tekken tho there so different you really shouldn't compare the two one is a classic arcade brawler well fh is in a leauge of its own its like a perfect mixtur of mk and mount amd blade. Imo it should be balanced between attacking and defending neither should have a clear disadvantaged so we don't get into a defensive meta again or spiral into a spam meta

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
11-10-2018, 06:22 PM
About 4v4 if U see charts vanguards and heavys dominate in that mode. whether its breach or 4v4 dominion. I play on pc rep 65 total and usually vanguards and heavy perform better in 4v4.


U dont have to look far just look at kensei . he performs soo well in 4v4 with his range and ganking abilities. look at warlord with his unlock attacks he dominates in dominoin

Area attacks and pins dominate like lawbringers bombs, shugokis opposite locked charged heavy or demons embrace.. raiders stampede. Heavies themselves only perform well as support groups not as heavies themselves much like shinobis distance gb.
.

Sekiro...
11-12-2018, 08:32 AM
It seems that everyone shares differing opinions on which heroes are strong and weak. In your opinion, which heroes do you consider to be weak or strong, and why?

We need to punish the turtle players with a good game's mechanism.

How about Increase the time of switch guard by 10ms everytime someone blocks a heavy and the guard switch only comes back to normal after perform an attack.

How about turtle got bleed status after block 3 heavys without try to attack

How about chip damage increase on each attack


Or simple give unblockable or bash to orochi and pk, I'm tired of ppl got low health and starts to turtle waiting for help ou get revenge.

Sekiro...
11-12-2018, 09:06 AM
It seems that everyone shares differing opinions on which heroes are strong and weak. In your opinion, which heroes do you consider to be weak or strong, and why?

Jiang Jun: feels like broken
. Huge hitbox
. His attacks seems desynchronized making him very very hard to parry
. Huge damage

Warden: spamm
. Shoulder bash feintable at any momment
. Shoulder bash impossible to be guard broken
. Shoulder bash is very convenient to spamm


Conquer: spamm≤
. Shield bash op

Shaolin:
. Teleport wtf??? dbz feelings

Nuxia:
. Trap is very very annoying.
And I know a lot of nuxias players will say "its possible to react"
... well, maybe with a lot of pratice, but today, what I see in the game is ppl suffering a lot with this, some ppl just try to dodge like a crazy or put a light everytime they recognize a heavy comming
and Its not react, it's just despair.
The thing comes worse in gank situations.
At least for now this move should be a little bit slower, and became fast again after ppl get used

Valk:
. She is fast like a assassin, why not put a guard reflex on her?
. The track of her "shield bash" is too strong.
. Dash attacks with superior block makes deflect looks stupid


Kensei:
. very Fast Zone fast with a huge range... how ab turn it a light attack? (in case of someone get a parry)
. Hilt strike is too cheap, we cant block and if we try to dodge he can simple feint into gb.
. What about the feat unbloackable?? after rework he got fast lights, so the feat now is too strong, only heavys should became ub.
. again, dash attacks with superior block makes deflect looks stupid

Sekiro...
11-12-2018, 09:29 PM
Gladiator:
. his zone is a joke but its not funny
I cant even wonder how a developer could think it's fair