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HighGround_S3G
11-07-2018, 08:34 AM
The Shaolin class needs better recovery time. Against most classes, the Shaolin is at a disadvantage. One parry and the shaolin is dead. He cannot recover from attacks fast enough to block an attack or dodge it. And since dodging is part of what he does, and since dodging doesn't stop guard break... it's easy to guard break him. And when his attacks are blocked or parried, or after he is attacked, the other class can destroy him because he cannot get his guard up or dodge because he is still recovering. This is the most frustrating part of playing a Shaolin... his complete lack of defense and his very slow and easy to parry offense.

Conqueror > Shaolin because conqueror can block all Shaolins attacks very easily even lights and punish before Shaolin can recover from the block, Shaolin has no way of opening up a "turtling" conqueror. Conq wins this matchup almost always
Lawbringer > Shaolin because LB can parry everything the Shaolin throws at him, and once LB starts his guardbreak/light spam, Shaolin is dead. LB wins almost always
Peacekeeper < Shaolin because PK is the weakest class in the game and can't hardly win a 1v1 anymore against anyone. Just use undodgables against PK and she dead. Shao wins this matchup almost always.
Warden = Shaolin because it really just depends on player skill, these 2 classes are evenly matched.
Centurion > Shaolin because Shaolin cannot recover in time once Centurion gets a GB or Parry in, Shaolin is dead... Since we can't dodge a guard break and can't block after being parried/blocked/attacked, Shaolins only hope is to dodge an unblockable and get away from the Centurion. Cent wins most of the time. Centurion wins most of these matchups.
Gladiator = Shaolin because it depends on the player skill. these 2 classes are evenly matched.

Raider = Shaolin... if the raider can keep GB spamming the Shaolin then he will win, if the Shaolin can block the raider and keep his distance, he will win. It's a player skill thing.
Berzerker > Shaolin... The Hyper armor/uninterruptable spam and the dodging makes the Berz really hard to beat in 1v1. Berz dodges Shaolin then hyper armor spams him to death, but a Shaolin can win this if he can Qi and undodgeable. Berz wins most of the matchups tho.
Warlord = Shaolin, just depends on player skill and how aggressive the WL is, if he is too aggro then Shaolin will win but if he turtles then he will win
Valkyrie = Shaolin this is an even matchup
Highlander > Shaolin because Highlander's attacks are pretty much undodgable, and his hyper armor makes him uninteruptable, so even tho Shaolin can hit him, Shaolin cannot output enough damage to kill him before highlander kills shao... highlander can kill a shao in 3 hits. Crazy damage. Highlander wins almost always.
Shaman > Shaolin because she has a lot of the same skills as a berzerker and can spam the shaolins weak defenses, shaman wins most of the time

Orochi > Shaolin because shaolin cannot block the orochis light spam, one hit and you might as well count the next 2. When the shao tries to attack, orochi dodges back then attacks with undodgables and repeats the light spam and guard breaks. Orochi wins almost always
Kensai > Shaolin because kensai can attack across the map with his side steps and undodgables.. shao cannot dodge him, shao cannot interrupt him because of hyper armor, and shao cannot get away from him. The only hope Shao has is to block his attacks then follow up. Kensai wins almost always, so much so that I don't even play Kensai anymore, I just quit the match.
Shugoki = Shaolin.. this matchup it just depends on each players skill
Nobushi = Shaolin... again, depends on player skill
Shinobi = Shaolin... depends on player skill
Aramusha = Shaolin... depends on player skill


The only class that the Shaolin is "better" than is the PK because every class is better than a PK. Some classes are even matches for Shaolin and balanced, but other classes have clear advantages, namely the Kensai, Orochi, Highlander, Berzerker, Lawbringer, Centurion, and Conqueror, but especially the Kensai.

What needs done to make Shaolin more even with these classes is to reduce their recovery time so they are not spammed to death... when a Shaolin is blocked, parried, or attacked, he cannot react, he can't dodge, block, parry, and often cannot even counter guard break because his recovery time is too long, it needs to be reduce by 200ms so he can defend himself. Some classes like orochi can get blocked then block you right away. A shaolin gets blocked then has to wait before he can block or dodge the incoming attack. It makes him very weak in the above mentioned matchups against melee spammers who can just keep attacking the defenseless shaolin or turtling classes who parry shaolins light attacks and then punish spam because shaolin cannot defend once attacked until recovery timer allows it. Recovery timer for shaolin needs reduced so he can defend himself.

Herbstlicht
11-07-2018, 11:15 AM
Huh, really?
I thought recoverys are generalized and Shaolin has the same recoveries like all other assassins? If this really would not be the case, I'd be for putting him in line with all others heroes. But I actually think his recovery is "normal" and I did not yet experience the problems you mentioned. Of course, I do struggle against Conquerer (a lot) and I do agree on the problem with Cent (if he gets a parry you got a problem), but that's not a Shaolin probem, more a general one, Like where you can't punish a conq, or die in maybe 2 parrys from a centurion (not unlikely, specially on console), that's an imbalance with the Conquerer and bad design with the Cent (and people do wish the cent less punishing and hope for more options, so everyone would win when Ubi would rework him somewhat).

But anyway, overall as Shaolin I only really struggle against: Conquerer (very much), Kensei (hard to play perfect against one on console), Berserker (so freakin fast chains and hyperarmor and spammy, you are not allowed to miss your parry, can be hard on console), Shaman (again, 400ms bleeds are not easy to react to, a lot of options), Centurion (the guy that just needs that one or two parrys near a wall to decide a match). But with "struggle" I don't mean I always loose. I just have a harder time against those classes then against others. And I did not yet include Wu Lin Heroes because .. well i struggle with JJ, but I think I needa learn more yet. And I already learned that you can evade a lot of stuff with well timed dodges, In duels, that is.

However, something that might be a general problem and way more prevalent for the Assassin class as a whole: Take Raider, Kensei, Highlander and a Lawbringer. Make it 2 of those in your team, 2 of those in the enemy team. As an Assassin, you will get shredded by enemies and allies alike due to those wide cleaving attacks. We might see Assassins fall in popularity in Dominion and Breach, where all those long range special property heavy attacks now pretty much became the new meta. Besides old school stuff like ledging that got stronger thanks to Tian Di. So this is something that does somewhat seem like a problem and demands a very careful play from the assassins. But that's just how it is :3

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
11-07-2018, 11:24 AM
He is already one of the best fighters in the game. He needs nothing

Blitzwarrior771
11-07-2018, 07:36 PM
He is not one of the best out there I see lots of noobs fail with him . Give some credits to good players who knows how to play . Or bettter try him in practice arena and see it yourself . I know he is not my thing . I bought tiandi for 15 k and I regret that one too . Every hero struggle with recovery and that situation .

HighGround_S3G
11-07-2018, 08:54 PM
Right now the META is defensive classes that can parry and punish like Conqueror, Lawbringer, Centurion. Kensai is just flat out OP right now and has only 1 weakness, that is being parried which is hard to do because of his feints and super fast light attacks.

Shaolin is a hybrid, but his damage is mediocre and his defense is horrid, even his attack speed is lacking, he is very easy to parry which is why he is so weak against meta classes. Shaolin wins against people unfamiliar with the class because of his variety, he has a little bit of everything, but what he really needs is better recovery time and at least 1 hyper armor attack.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
11-07-2018, 11:13 PM
The meta is spam now. And there is no credit to spam. Every character is a noob killer... What a stupid saying. If your having issues playing him that's on you to get gud and stop blaming him because your a noob with his move set.