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View Full Version : The all new Centurion (a dream work)



Knight_Raime
11-06-2018, 06:49 AM
This is different than my past rework suggestions. Those were done in order to make him viable at higher tier play whilst not being a nightmare anymore for lower tier players. This write up of my favorite hero is how I would remake him. If I had 100% total control over how he'd change. In other words this is how I see him being his own unique and fun character. 100% bully. 1000% punishing. You've been warned my friends.

Chains:

~light>light>light
~Light>light>heavy
~light>heavy
~Heavy>heavy
~heavy>light
~Heavy>light>heavy
~light>heavy>light

All lights are 500ms. All heavies are 600ms. Heavy finishers are unblockable. Light finishers have armor.

Special moves:
~Legionary kick. After parrying press guard break to do a strong kick. Sends the opponent flying back. If opponent hits a surface they get blinded. Stamina damage only.

~Legionary might: Dashing forward and hitting guard break causes centurion to knee his opponent. From here Centurion can do one of two things. Press guard break again which lets you throw the person (it is techable and not guaranteed.) Or chain into a light attack. Which is guaranteed. (the knee is initiated 100ms into the dash and is a 500ms bash. Non variable like warlords headbutt.)

~Legionary strength: Centurions jab. Can be thrown after a light or a heavy attack. Can also be thrown after a light or heavy attack whiff. Tracking will be good enough to catch early dodgers to either side but not backwards tracking (for uncharged.) Charged jab has good tracking all around. But has a higher recovery if whiffed. Charged jab does not knock someone down. it only does more stamina damage and is meant for dealing with people who late dodge. (same speeds as current jab. just with better recovery on uncharged jab.)

~Legionary training: Centurion has a dodge GB. Function and purpose similar to raider dodge GB. Opponent is blinded if they are thrown into a surface.

~Eagles fury: Dash forward heavy. 600ms attack. low recovery. Treated as a pinned heavy. Can flow straight into Eagles fury off of Legionary kick. But it's not guaranteed outside the opponent hitting a surface.

~Talon's fury: Centurion's out of lock running heavy. Same as eagles fury except it's not treated as a pinned heavy.

~Legionary's judgement. Pressing back and heavy when near a downed opponent will cause you to pounce on them. You have 3 options. the regular pounce. Pressing guard break during the pounce which makes centurion punch the target in the face for extra damage. Or pressing heavy again. Causing centurion to push the blade farther in causing the attack to do 10 more damage.

~Pin: Centurion can pin you from a fully charged heavy or from his eagles fury. Once centurion has pinned his opponent he has two options. He can tap light 3 times(which is lion's roar currently) OR he can press guard break. Which is where centurion will grab you and throw you. This throw is not techable. Costs him a fair bit of stamina. And has a long enough recovery on it that he can't get a follow up guaranteed attack if he splats you by throwing you into a surface. For all intents this move ends his aggression. But sets his team up for a kill. Or ledges someone. Opponent is blinded if it hits a surface.

Misc notes:

~Centurion's stamina pool is now as large as gladiators and regens almost as fast as his.

~Centurions stamina damage is globally brought down by a fair margin.

~Centurion's hard feint is now like everyone elses. No longer that awkward pause.

~Centurion's soft feint to gb is now removed. It is replaced with a soft feint into Jab. This Jab is unchargable.

~moved around the timings for centurions heavy finishers. Now a heavy finisher is immediately unblockable 100ms into the charge. and has the standard hard/soft feint timing as all other hard/soft feints.

~Cleaned up his side heavy finisher animations so they look just as telegraphed as his top heavy finisher to compensate for how more useful his unblockable will be with mix ups.

~The grab attempt from his Legionary's might does not carry the same recovery time as his pinned version does. Meaning he can combo off of it should the grab attempt land.


Centurion specific feats:

~haymaker: no longer makes his unblockable bashes do health damage. Instead it slightly replenishes his stamina if he lands one.

~Centurion's march now also applies to allies near by when he activates it.

~Pugio no longer pins someone down. Instead it simply prevents them from being able to sprint for a brief period of time. It also inflicts a bleed DoT.


Closing notes:

So I know this is a lot to read. But basically I wanted to double down on his bully like behavior. Bring more of that Centurion concept out into the open. And fix him towards a grappler role since we don't really have a hero focused on that at the moment. The point of giving him all of those combos is so centurion can be flexible with what he's using and really plays into just how much access he has to jab now. Jab itself is kind of functioning as both a tool for dodge happy players but also as a combo extender like valk's shield crush.

I took a page from LB's book here when looking at that grab attack (either after Legionary's might or a pin) Meaning LB's shove on block generally does net something guaranteed. But his neutral shove doesn't. In this case the grab off of Might is easier to access. Thus the grab follow up is not guaranteed. Where as netting a pin is generally harder to do. So giving centurion the grab for free is an appropriate reward. I tried to make sure I wouldn't recreate the cutscene combo issue. Which in my eyes has always just been eating a lot of damage. Hence why the recovery on the pinned one physically prevents centurion from capitalizing on it.

But if centurion is properly working with his team it still can lead to death. But this isn't a common thing for general 4's play. And Shaman's whole shtick with bite is already like this when working with a team. So I think it's a fair thing to have. Both throws and getting a throw on dodge also sort of gives centurion an active role in his team. Rather than simply trying to mash out his unblockables so HE can get damage in.

I also tried to sneak in some options here and there with his kit. Not only to satisfy the "mix up intensive" title he has (aside from his new combos) but also so fighting him isn't the same boring repeated actions. Like getting that might in neutral. Out in the open I might not go for the throw and instead just do the light damage. But near a wall or ledge I might try to go for the throw. Or if I manage to knock you down some how or an ally sets it up for me I can pounce and do a little more from there than just straight damage.

The addition of his new combo's plus the qol changes to his heavy game are supposed to ensure that in a duel situation he still can do some interesting things. I specifically chose to normalize the speeds on his attacks to make him easier to approach as well. But given the fact that his unblockable is now a proper mix up and the fact that he has the same delay window on his lights as JJ means he should in theory be fine from neutral without having any oppressive speedy attacks.

Finally I decided to change centurion's specific feats because I wasn't fond of them. Haymaker is just free damage. it's boring and my rework would just be a nightmare. Giving him stamina back on successful bashes means he can eek out a little more pressure. Centurion's march is an interesting feat. And if it already does this then sorry. I never really remember using it much. Finally considering how strong pins are now in my kit I couldn't justify it being a pin still. The change now sort of makes it seem like centurion is playing with his pray. as it's wounded (bleeding) and unable to get away. But it will try. Makes it different than valks javelin.

I appreciate those who took the time to look at my monster that I created. Feedback is as always welcomed. But this was more of a "for fun" thing and not really trying to get it into the game.

Blitzwarrior771
11-06-2018, 08:44 AM
What he really need is a longer sword 😂😂😂😂 compared to others it looks like a dagger lol

Goat_of_Vermund
11-06-2018, 09:05 AM
It is a gladius, and it looks exactly like it should. Without a shieldwall, it's not a good weapon, but I guess it's still far better than the tiny scythe or a stick.

I won't say I can totally envision this centurion, but for the first glance, he looks amazing.

MarshalMoriarty
11-06-2018, 09:52 AM
If you really think making Centurion's March give infinite stamina to everyone around him would be at all appropriate for well, any level of Feat actually then you've taken one too many Gladius raps to the skull.

Knight_Raime
11-06-2018, 08:56 PM
What he really need is a longer sword �������� compared to others it looks like a dagger lol

It's a gladius. It looks the proper size. Though I will say it was very odd for the devs to not give him a shield. As the Gladius was always paired with one.

Knight_Raime
11-06-2018, 09:03 PM
It is a gladius, and it looks exactly like it should. Without a shieldwall, it's not a good weapon, but I guess it's still far better than the tiny scythe or a stick.

I won't say I can totally envision this centurion, but for the first glance, he looks amazing.

Yeah what I really like about this centurion is it really feels like he has combos.
Like. Parry into legionary kick. Kick splats his opponent and ooses them. He links eagles fury for a pin. Then throws him off of the wall onto the ground and does Legionary's judgement where he pushes the blade further in for more damage.

Or might into throw (that the opponent didn't tech) into wall splat for a light into a charged heavy mix up. Guy tries to dodge early and centurion soft feints into his jab. And then he lets a charged unblockable heavy fly pinning the person. Then he throws the guy into the wall again for an ally to finish him off.

Knight_Raime
11-06-2018, 09:05 PM
If you really think making Centurion's March give infinite stamina to everyone around him would be at all appropriate for well, any level of Feat actually then you've taken one too many Gladius raps to the skull.

afaik it's a short duration feat. And JJ has a feat where he constantly gives stamina back if he stays in sifu's. So it's not like it's totally unfair.

MarshalMoriarty
11-07-2018, 12:06 AM
Except that your feat would be giving infinite stamina to everyone around him. How would that be balanced in any way?! Sifu's requires Jun to be stationary, whereas CM lets people keep on trucking on the go. That would be absurdly overpowered to give to a group, especially for a lvl 2 Feat.

And bringing up JJ as an example of why anything would be balanced... the prosecution rests M'lord.

Knight_Raime
11-08-2018, 07:31 PM
Except that your feat would be giving infinite stamina to everyone around him. How would that be balanced in any way?! Sifu's requires Jun to be stationary, whereas CM lets people keep on trucking on the go. That would be absurdly overpowered to give to a group, especially for a lvl 2 Feat.

And bringing up JJ as an example of why anything would be balanced... the prosecution rests M'lord.

Hmm. Maybe it just gives faster regen to allies then instead?
And JJ is mostly balanced. At least from a kit perspective. His feats on the other hand...

EvoX.
11-08-2018, 07:39 PM
This pleases me.

Knight_Raime
11-08-2018, 08:18 PM
This pleases me.

I'm glad a fellow Centurion likes what i've tried to accomplish.
I still think the concept is a little rough and needs further tweaking.

Maybe I might revisit this should it some how gain enough traction and people really want this to be a thing.

Blitzwarrior771
11-08-2018, 09:08 PM
Centurion is still great team player love his front kick to the balls . 😂

Knight_Raime
11-08-2018, 09:22 PM
Centurion is still great team player love his front kick to the balls . ��

Not really. His kit encourages bash usage. Which just builds revenge for people absurdly fast.
And he only gets a light off of either bash. If his bashes actually setup his allies for lots of damage they'd be okay.
But neither wall splat. Centurion is a selfish hero that doesn't add anything meaningful to a team fight.
And i'd go as far to say as him being a detriment for his team just because of how many bashes he needs to throw out.

Scourge1974
11-08-2018, 09:31 PM
Actually they did use a longer sword as well called a Spatha

Knight_Raime
11-08-2018, 10:02 PM
Actually they did use a longer sword as well called a Spatha

This is true. But at least imo I feel the gladius is more iconic to them. Similar to how the staff is the iconic monk weapon. Even though they're rather good with a variety of weapons.

MarshalMoriarty
11-09-2018, 12:12 AM
The only thing a Centurion rework needs for him to be accepted by the community is a drastic reduction of the downtime you suffer when fighting him. One GB near any wall or obstacle means you may as well crack open a cold one because your presence behind the controller won't be needed for a good long while. Thrown into the wall, stabbed, punched, fall to ground, flying stab, clamber back and finally you can act again.

Its way too long to just be staring helplessly able to do nothing. Add in the GB 3 taps after a single parry that also achieves this, the charged hit during a gank which essentially gurantees death, the pinned by Pugio\stab\punch\to the floor etc. It all makes Cent an utter chore to fight because you spend so much time watching him engage in protracted moves and combos with no chance of doing anything. Any rework he gets has to cut right back on that or he will remain a despised character.

Many characters have at least 1 move that forces you into the role of spectator. But Cent has many ways to do it and are easier to achieve and do more damage, plus leaving you helpless. Its also worth that the comparable moves from other characters also tend to be hated, so the reaction to these things being a foundation of his style are unsurprising.