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View Full Version : These Guys Completely Nailed it in this post.



Playing_Mantis
11-05-2018, 07:43 AM
Light spam meta isn't any more fun than defensive meta, if anything it's less fun, you could always eventually find a way to open up people or get past them, light spam is just annoying and frustrating, combine that with the tremendous amount of ganking that is in the game now, along with all this light spam and or the melee spam is getting ridiculous, you try to fix one problem and add an even bigger problem, that being said that's all these new heros really are... especially nuxia, one should not have to rely on light spam such as orochi to be good, it's not good for the game, and you want the game to be competitive? Light spam is NOT the way to do it, SKILL IS, it took more skill to block in the defense meta than spam in this new broken meta

This guy said it best right here /\
to add to it-
the spam meta completely destroyed the game for me. the defense meta was so much more fun and tactical to deal with. all they had to do was give everyone one way to open up turtles and the game would have been amazing, instead they chose the light spam- i hate this so much! how long can u play a game where your just light spamming? gets so boring and so frustrating so fast! please change this..im afraid its too late now and the game is too far gone in this direction to change. oh well, it was a good run for me but i can't keep on with this meta of spam. :/
it was so fun to practice the options i would do when i saw different moves and it made playing the game feel like actual practice. Now with the speedy moves i don't feel like playing the game gives me any sort of practice. its just fast stuff that u need reflexes for and not really something i feel like i can practice for. feels really sad as this was my favorite game before.
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I found this thread and it spoke directly to me. Its exactly how I feel. You really can't practice the game anymore, how do you practice vs the new spam meta? You can't, and its not rewarding when you just block speedy attacks. There is no use to try to parry an orochi or zerker or other characters too. As for the new spam meta characters now everyone has to play spam to compete. The new trap mechanic does nothing good for the game. All I do now to counter this is to basically just throw random attacks. This new move only promotes more spam. The monkey hero, pure spam moves. This new meta is much worse for the game than the turtle meta and will actually lose players I'm sure. If the game dies I'm sure its because of this. How long can you play spam before just getting sick of it or straight bored. Concs been broken forever, balance is getting worse and its too slow. Come on Ubi, do you really want the game to go this way? Such an amazing idea for a game turning bad. It was for sure more fun trying to break a turtle than having a spam war with a noob. I lose more often to players that suck because there is a bit more luck involved now as well. All I have to add I guess.

Buggy.Blaster
11-05-2018, 07:45 AM
AMEN TO THIS!!!!! I Agree 10000000%

SangLong524
11-05-2018, 07:56 AM
Who are these guys? You and youself?
Reference, or citations, or else it is made up.

KSI_TheMadKing
11-05-2018, 07:57 AM
Well apparently there is no such thing as light spam. According to there "data", 400ms lights just widen skill gaps and it gives plays something to practice their reactions.

Knight_Raime
11-05-2018, 08:06 AM
"Light spam meta isn't any more fun than defensive meta, if anything it's less fun, you could always eventually find a way to open up people or get past them."

First part is subjective. I'd personally rather die to someone trying to be aggressive (even if it's stupid aggression) than having a staring contest and getting punished for being the first person to attack. And the second part is false. The only way you could crack a turtle before the big changes was if you had a safe spammable unblockable attack. Which not everyone had and still doesn't have.

"it took more skill to block in the defense meta than spam in this new broken meta."

Skill is a broad term that is comprised of many things. Skill is subjective and non quantifiable to any accurate degree. Anyway. Blocking doesn't take much skill. Because the game has 3-5 attack speeds you need to master. And blocking outside of reflex guard (and even technically with reflex. Just less so,) is a mostly passive action. Blocking comes down to reflexes. Which isn't something you can really improve upon much. Where as match up knowledge and timing are skills you can hone. Sure spamming the same things over and over again isn't very hard to do. But neither is basic blocking.

"all they had to do was give everyone one way to open up turtles and the game would have been amazing,"

And how do people open up other players? With unblockables. And people complained about unblockable spam. Besides that giving every one an unblockable doesn't solve the defensive issue. it side steps/ignores it. You're not dealing with someone's defense. You're bypassing it. Attacks were made faster in attempts to make things harder to defend against. This is also why more mix ups are added. Stepping away from largely reactable play is part of how we respond to the defensive issues. But core game mechanics like blocking also need changes in order to make defense itself difficult but actually rewarding to do once you've mastered it.

"The new trap mechanic does nothing good for the game."

Entirely disagree. It's a smart mechanic. It entirely defeats the passive style that some people play. but it also opens Nuxia her self to being punished. Meaning it's not a safe offensive move like most reworks/dlc heros have gotten. It needs polish so it's not as easily dealt with as it is right now. But the idea of it and how it forces both Nuxia and her opponent to play is amazing.

"The monkey hero, pure spam moves."

False unless you are over using his infinite combo. Which is just as much spam and just as reactable as every other infinite combo. His qi stance and how his kit works means there is always 1-3 hits before the fight is back at neutral. compared to any other kit that has an inf combo he's actually the least spammy.

"I lose more often to players that suck because there is a bit more luck involved now as well."

Hate to burst your bubble but if you're dying to predictable/repetitive actions you're not as good as you think. Or at least you're not better than the opponent you're fighting. Blaming the other person/what their using instead of looking inward is what stunts player growth. It doesn't ultimately matter who's kit is better than the others. This is always a thing in a fighting game. But good players will know their weaknesses of their kit and over come them/learn to play around them. I hate dying to spam just as much as the next person. But I know it's on me. And it's because of that that I have grown as a player and gotten better. I stuck with centurion despite him getting worse and worse with each change post season 5. And I still manage to win despite being heavily gimped compared to reworked heros/wu-lin. That is only something that comes with having a good attitude and the willingness to improve one's self.

"balance is getting worse and its too slow."

I deff agree that balancing patches/changes are far too slow and never do enough. But disagree that it's worse. There were 3 viable heros back in season 1. Now we have only 2 heros that are not viable anywhere. Goki and aramusha. LB and raider are rather weak. But they both are reliably strong enough in 4's. So at least they are viable some where. While the balance between heros might be a bigger gap than before the overall balance of the roster has only gotten better over the life span of the game.

Goat_of_Vermund
11-05-2018, 09:17 AM
I hate fighting spammers, but at least I can get rid of them easily, the fight is short against them (you either die quickly, or kill them quickly), you can then leave. What I hated far more was fighting turtles, especially shugokis. They were weak even during the guardbreak meta, but it was still frustrating that they just stood next to a wall waiting for a parry or gb. Centurion was the same. I would rather fight 5 laggy orochies in a row than one of those guys. They are scary, I couldn't even understand what are they enjoying in the game with that playstyle.

SangLong524
11-05-2018, 09:32 AM
I hate fighting spammers, but at least I can get rid of them easily, the fight is short against them (you either die quickly, or kill them quickly), you can then leave. What I hated far more was fighting turtles, especially shugokis. They were weak even during the guardbreak meta, but it was still frustrating that they just stood next to a wall waiting for a parry or gb. Centurion was the same. I would rather fight 5 laggy orochies in a row than one of those guys. They are scary, I couldn't even understand what are they enjoying in the game with that playstyle.

believe it or not, they win part of the fight with making people weary. And it's smart, they make use of surroundings and understand their chosen hero.
regarding Shugoki, how else he's supposed to land DE? it certainly a part of his plans that he's definitely gonna throw at you.
Now if only everyone would be just as smart.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
11-05-2018, 10:06 AM
I hate fighting spammers, but at least I can get rid of them easily, the fight is short against them (you either die quickly, or kill them quickly), you can then leave. What I hated far more was fighting turtles, especially shugokis. They were weak even during the guardbreak meta, but it was still frustrating that they just stood next to a wall waiting for a parry or gb. Centurion was the same. I would rather fight 5 laggy orochies in a row than one of those guys. They are scary, I couldn't even understand what are they enjoying in the game with that playstyle.
At least it takes skill to be a good shugoki. It takes hours upon hours of practice to learn timing and patience or a shugoki ends up killing himself. Have you ever tried to do a successful knock down demons embrace? It's the hardest move in the game. So your reasoning is because they are scary? Really? It takes skill... And a wall... To be scary. Maybe you shouldn't let your fear be the judge. OK I'm done trolling for the night. Cheers

Goat_of_Vermund
11-05-2018, 11:24 AM
Every map has a wall. You go there, sit there, and wait. Now, it's not that amazing, but when guardbreaks were guaranteed on every parry, this was all it took to kill with him. Or parrying a light and demon's embrace. Or getting a gb via HA trade. This never took skill, nor did the centurion of those times, if you think otherwise, you are flattering for yourself (getting two heavy parries per game is not skill). Lightspam doesn't take skill either, at least if it's literally just lightspam without mixups, but at least you can actually attack them.

The scary thing wasn't the "skilled" shugoki, it was that some people actually enjoy doing nothing but waiting for counters.

Ps: I have nothing against shugokis, I have an almost rep 4, and I still enjoy him when I don't mind losing and want a simple game. Before the later nerfs however, the worst kind of turtles picked him and centurion exclusively.

SangLong524
11-05-2018, 11:59 AM
Every map has a wall. You go there, sit there, and wait. Now, it's not that amazing, but when guardbreaks were guaranteed on every parry, this was all it took to kill with him. Or parrying a light and demon's embrace. Or getting a gb via HA trade. This never took skill, nor did the centurion of those times, if you think otherwise, you are flattering for yourself (getting two heavy parries per game is not skill). Lightspam doesn't take skill either, at least if it's literally just lightspam without mixups, but at least you can actually attack them.

The scary thing wasn't the "skilled" shugoki, it was that some people actually enjoy doing nothing but waiting for counters.

Ps: I have nothing against shugokis, I have an almost rep 4, and I still enjoy him when I don't mind losing and want a simple game. Before the later nerfs however, the worst kind of turtles picked him and centurion exclusively.

Right, there it is again. “Take no skill”, a tearful proclaimation of every salty person in this community. I take it you are the opposite. So proud when you pull mix up after mix up. Good for you.

Goat_of_Vermund
11-05-2018, 12:49 PM
I am bad at parrying, I don't focus on counters, and I still parry a few attacks every round. It's not rocket science, and if your reward is half the opponent's health, then yes, it takes no skill. Now, it takes some since you won't deal 40 damage on heavy parries with every character, with guardbreaks, it took none. Using anything but bashes was extremely risky before the parry into guardbreak. I don't know if you were around back then, but everyone could do it, what actually took skill was breaking through defenses without a bash (lightspam was weaker back then too, you could negate it with guardswitch spam on any static guard heroes). Just watch any youtuber fight during the summer of 2017.

Tatsu147146
11-05-2018, 01:06 PM
If you think light spam is bad and wall splaying Shugoki have no skill then you haven't dueled a zone spamming conquerer and the character you're playing as has NO openers THAT is true lack of skill.

Goat_of_Vermund
11-05-2018, 02:05 PM
Speaking of skill, understanding what you read is not one of yours. Nothing you wrote has anything to do with what I wrote.

1. I spoke about shugoki during season 1-3. You know, when you got a guardbreak on any parry. Basically it was parry-gb-wallthrow-hug-win. He wasn't the strongest turtle, but hyperarmor guaranteed that you won't be able to do anything at all on him. There were ways around if you spent ten minutes on it.

2. Lightspam is not broken. It's just boring. And it is really easy to change guard and press a button.

3. Zonespam conqueror is the modern turtle, if you mean optionselecters.

SangLong524
11-05-2018, 02:51 PM
1.Much have changed since season 3. Even then you can gb shugoki to cancel HA. Once it’s down you engage him normally, and extra damage too.
2. Yes, but the problem people are having is that lights land b4 they can react.
3. Im still struggling with conquerors. Optionselecters or no,

Goat_of_Vermund
11-05-2018, 03:03 PM
The current shugoki is horribly useless, and I never stated anything different. He is among the weakests in duel, and while somewhat useful in a team, it takes great effort and good team mate to be viable.

Lightspam is not reactable, but it's mostly guessable, especially on simple minded spammers (there are still roaches who always gb after double top lights). At least that is counterable, and these spammers generally fall for any tricks when on the defensive. It's still boring to fight them.

Blitzwarrior771
11-05-2018, 04:11 PM
Guard switch is still broken.

Buggy.Blaster
11-10-2018, 07:02 AM
not made up, they were taken from an original ubisoft post. one of the top posts. just paste part of one of the paragraphs into the search and u will see the original posts..

Rhyza.
11-10-2018, 07:54 AM
Unfortunatly, Ubi is committed to the light spam route. Nothing we say or do is going to change that. They just released the Wu Lin, who have two characters that rely on light spam to be made viable. Do you really think they want to rework that? Or any of the older characters who require light spam to stay in the game? Like it or hate it, light spam is here to stay.