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Korpraali.Kanki
10-31-2018, 08:59 PM
Hey guys lets talk about shaolin moves! What does he have on his kit? Side Dodge attack (check) crushing counter (check) unblockables (check) 3differend balance control (check) soft feints? Im not sure but i think so :D fastest attack (check) hmm That sound pretty op to me maybe ill just have to learn how to play against him LoL

Korpraali.Kanki
10-31-2018, 09:00 PM
Deflects. Did i forgot anything?

DefiledDragon
10-31-2018, 09:14 PM
You forgot that you can dodge backwards to nullify half his kit.

GladiatorHood
10-31-2018, 09:58 PM
that is so annoying im so pissed i got shaolin ):

Diettiger2017
11-01-2018, 12:54 AM
Iv found in the stance if anyone dodges the dodge move gets them thatís whatís worked for me so far.

Korpraali.Kanki
11-01-2018, 05:22 AM
You forgot that you can dodge backwards to nullify half his kit.
Really? Well have to try that

Kamen42
11-02-2018, 01:01 PM
Okay let's see

Side dodge attacks - Probably the worst side dodge attack in the game. Every other side dodge in the game is either faster, has tracking, block on startup. stun, can be hard feinted or soft-feinted into something else or has a combination of these factors. Shaolin dodge attack has none of these properties. Also the only side dodge attack in the game that is not a chain starter. You throw a side dodge attack and that's it. No possible follow-up. (Please correct me if I am wrong, but I can't think of any other dodge attack that is not a chain starter.)

Crushing counter - unlike all the other crushing counters, this one is not available from neutral. Shaolin has to enter Qi stance for it to be available. In Qi stance - cannot counter GB, cannot parry, cannot move, cannot dodge, cannot block - only with block on light startup. In Qi, Shaolin is vulnerable to a number of things.

Unblockables - again, not available from neutral, again, have to enter Qi stance first (or deflect). Both of them are vulnerable to parry (except the one after deflect). As far as I know, the one after the kick is not feintable (might be wrong on this one, not sure).

3 different balance control - not sure what you mean. Can you please clarify? Thanks

Soft feints - I am not aware of any. Just checked the moveset and there is nothing indicating the other. You are sure there are some, but unless you find one, this point is invalid.

Fastest lights - ok, I'll give you this one. Top lights and combo side lights are 400 ms.

Deflect - The weakest deflect in the game - 25 dmg heavy. Every other deflect in the game guarantees more damage than that. Even some "Superior block on dodge" things guarantee higher damage (Valkyrie Shoulder Pin for example)

Also his normal attacks have one of the lowest damage in the game.
Shaolin heavies deal 25 dmg 1st and 2nd heavy (35 on a heavy finisher). The only weaker heavies are Peacekeeper opener, valk opener and Nobushi 2nd heavy. Centurion heavy also deals 25 dmg but is 200 ms faster, both opener and combo heavy. If charged, Centurion heavy does 30 dmg and guarantees stamina drain from punch and another 35 dmg from Eagle talon. Most of the time the damage for other characters' heavies are in mid 30s or even higher. This also means Shaolin has much weaker light parry punish.
His lights are only 12 dmg. There are only two light attacks in the game weaker, and that is Nuxia light finisher, which does 11 and repositions the opponent and can wallsplat, the other one is Shaman opener, which does 10.

Tell me again how he is OP?

Xil_h
11-02-2018, 03:11 PM
Okay let's see

Side dodge attacks - Probably the worst side dodge attack in the game. Every other side dodge in the game is either faster, has tracking, block on startup. stun, can be hard feinted or soft-feinted into something else or has a combination of these factors. Shaolin dodge attack has none of these properties. Also the only side dodge attack in the game that is not a chain starter. You throw a side dodge attack and that's it. No possible follow-up. (Please correct me if I am wrong, but I can't think of any other dodge attack that is not a chain starter.)


(...)

Tell me again how he is OP?

As a Nobushi player this part made me start a riot. FREAKING CARS ARE BURNING ON THE STREET!



And btw...u guys forgot he has undodgeables!
He has pretty much every single tool except for traps in his kit.

Kamen42
11-02-2018, 03:17 PM
As a Nobushi player this part made me start a riot. FREAKING CARS ARE BURNING ON THE STREET!



And btw...u guys forgot he has undodgeables!
He has pretty much every single tool except for traps in his kit.

Forgot about Nobushi. Still... both Shaolin and Nobushi dodge heavies are 600 ms. Nobushi does 25 dmg, Shaolin does 20. Nobushi also has light dodge attack - Cobra Strike. It is 600 ms and does 6 dmg + 20 bleed. And Nobushi does more damage to a bleeding target. Also, Nobushi dodge heavy can be chained to other moves. So yeah, Nobushi dodge attacks are better than Shaolin dodge attacks.

Also I am talking about the dodge attack from neutral, not the ones from Qi, that need preparation. I am not sure about their dodge property. I feel like Shaolin gets hit way too often when using those.

I am not denying he has a lot of options, I am trying to point out that his version of the tools is a weaker version of what other characters have.

Roseguard_Cpt
11-02-2018, 06:23 PM
Nobushi's dodging attacks however, don't dodge. Shaolin's does