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DaggerGrace
10-31-2018, 05:59 AM
So. Iím going to start off by saying this.
Shugoki didnít need a nerf. Not even something as small as this. He is horrible in everything he does, period. I challenge you to prove me wrong, anybody that may respond to this. Secondly, Aramusha needs a buff, again. Itís great that he got more damage, but I cannot help but feel it doesnít matter. You give him a horrible ďdodge attackĒ that has to be timed with the reflex of 50ms to do any good. Again, up for discussion with anyone who will wish to prove me wrong.

Shaolin is without a doubt one of the most broken pieces of work Iíve ever seen. Fast lights, undodgeable attacks, and you have a character that is best summed up by being called a Highlander in a permenant offensive stance. Seriously, I would much rather prefer he have a regular guard like ALL OTHER HYBRIDS rather than a reflex guard if it makes him balanced. I say the same thing for Tiandi when it comes to balancing. I took up Tiandi as the one of the four I would main, and already he is just. . .ugh. A vanguard with an undodgebal dodge attack. Fast lights, unblockables out of nothing. Yeah this seems about right for Ubisoft. All you have in this game are people who play the highest tiers and spam their best moved. You just have Kenseiís who use their zoneís first move, back up, lather rince repeat. Centurions who only try and guardbreak you, a Shaolin who throws out one attack then runs away, a Conquerer who slams the shoulder bash because itís the safest thing in his entire kit, (WHICH IS ALL SAFE BY THE WAY).

Oh but no. Shugoki needs a nerf. The ****** who doesnít get anything except a useless headbutt gaurunteed off a non-guaranteed light. The character that genuinely seems interesting to play is unplayable because of how terrible he is. He canít help team mates in Dominion, he doesnít have any 50/50ís anymore (WHICH IS A HUGE FACTOR IN THE RANKING SYSTEM), no unblockables he can use out of nothing.

Oh but Kensei. KENSEIís unblockable attack is a top heavy dealing loads of damage, can be fainted into a guardbreak that makes you question if you should even dodge.

Why do they prioritize the weakest characters and not even prioritize them ina good way. They nerf the already weakest people, and buff everyone else and buff the strongest. They buffed Centurion, they buffed Kensei, who, by the way, from the start of the game was being told needed a nerf. And do not even get me started on Shaman. Shaman may not have gotten that many buffs, but who says she needs them? She already does what PK and Goki do but better. Why canít Shugoki hold back his demons embrace stance until he is ready to let it rip? Itís alreay bad enough he takes 25% more damage after someone simply fails a guardbreak.

The one I hate the most out of all of them is Conquerer. Everything he does is either a hit or a safe move. He missed a shield bash, nope, no guardbreak for you. And thatís the same with Tiandi, almost. If he misses his heavy kick, you canít gaurdbreak him.

To be classfied as a good character in this game. You need all of the following.

-An unblockable shove or attack that can be feinted quickly into a gaurdbreak before they dodge. If itís safe, it doesnít matter much.
-Fast light attacks
-Safe Moves
-Soft feints

Do you know how broken Lawbringer would be if he could soft feint his Judge, Jury and Executioner finish into a long arm? Itís an unblockable finisher that canít be feint in time to gaurdbreak someone dodging backwards. Same with Shugoki.

RexXZ347
10-31-2018, 06:39 AM
Dude. They only know one thing. Worst character needs further nerf. And strong character needs further buff. They are genius.

ArchDukeInstinct
10-31-2018, 08:26 AM
I don't think anyone disagrees on buffing Shugoki or Aramusha. I certainly don't but I feel like roasting the rest of this post nonetheless.


Shaolin is without a doubt one of the most broken pieces of work I’ve ever seen. Fast lights, undodgeable attacks, and you have a character that is best summed up by being called a Highlander in a permenant offensive stance.

What an atrocious analogy.


I say the same thing for Tiandi when it comes to balancing. I took up Tiandi as the one of the four I would main, and already he is just. . .ugh. A vanguard with an undodgebal dodge attack. Fast lights, unblockables out of nothing. Yeah this seems about right for Ubisoft.

What is it with you and undodgeable attacks? Just block or parry, dude.


All you have in this game are people who play the highest tiers and spam their best moved. You just have Kensei’s who use their zone’s first move, back up, lather rince repeat

Wow and you didn't learn to just put your guard on the right?


Centurions who only try and guardbreak you

Jesus Christ this dude thinks Centurion is top tier and apparently he loses to guard breaks LOL


a Conquerer who slams the shoulder bash because it’s the safest thing in his entire kit, (WHICH IS ALL SAFE BY THE WAY).

It's called a shield bash actually and no outside of shield bash, there really isn't any safe offensive moves, he does have a variety of option selects defensively though.
Take for example 600ms side opener lights and 500ms combo lights. These aren't difficult to parry at all, a 2nd light in a combo is basically a free parry. 800ms Shield uppercut is easily dodged and punished. 700ms Shield bash mixup is 200ms giving plenty of extra time to guard break compared to a forward dodge shield bash. Heavies can't be feinted in the standard way and canceling into a full block stance gives a nice window for the opponent to get a guard break in if they make a read and guard break upon seeing a heavy they suspect will be canceled. Charged heavy is chock full of risks without being able to counter guard break and having a 300ms stance change. So that's why Conquerors only do shield bash into light because it's the only offensive in the kit that's worth a damn, dummy.


Oh but no. Shugoki needs a nerf. The ****** who doesn’t get anything except a useless headbutt gaurunteed off a non-guaranteed light. The character that genuinely seems interesting to play is unplayable because of how terrible he is. He can’t help team mates in Dominion, he doesn’t have any 50/50’s anymore (WHICH IS A HUGE FACTOR IN THE RANKING SYSTEM), no unblockables he can use out of nothing.

I love the complaint about Shugoki lights not being guaranteed.


Oh but Kensei. KENSEI’s unblockable attack is a top heavy dealing loads of damage, can be fainted into a guardbreak that makes you question if you should even dodge.

That's the point or otherwise the move would be worthless because parrying it is hardly a challenge without that possibility


Why do they prioritize the weakest characters and not even prioritize them ina good way. They nerf the already weakest people, and buff everyone else and buff the strongest. They buffed Centurion, they buffed Kensei, who, by the way, from the start of the game was being told needed a nerf.

Uhhh???? Kensei was garbage for the first year of this game. If you think pre-rework Kensei need a nerf -> Wow.


And do not even get me started on Shaman. Shaman may not have gotten that many buffs, but who says she needs them? She already does what PK and Goki do but better. Why can’t Shugoki hold back his demons embrace stance until he is ready to let it rip? It’s alreay bad enough he takes 25% more damage after someone simply fails a guardbreak.

One of the few legit things you had to say in this post. I'm also very curious as to why Shaman has a bunch of stronger versions of other people's tools but this is old news.


The one I hate the most out of all of them is Conquerer. Everything he does is either a hit or a safe move. He missed a shield bash, nope, no guardbreak for you. And that’s the same with Tiandi, almost. If he misses his heavy kick, you can’t gaurdbreak him.

The obligatory falsehood about shield bash being unpunishable even though it blatantly is on prediction and is also doable with a reaction. Check.

Archaelion
10-31-2018, 04:44 PM
#buffshugoki #makeshugokifatagain

Illyrian_King
10-31-2018, 05:15 PM
This is the casual pre-rework nerf. They did the same with Conq, when they removed his super block shortly before releasing his rework.

Maybe they just want to try out stuff.

bramboforce
10-31-2018, 05:31 PM
Poor goki mains

DaggerGrace
10-31-2018, 05:39 PM
1. Centurion has a soft feint into a guard break. An unblockable kick that gaurunteed a light that he can fake the action of then guardbreak. I would be as mad if not every Centurion played the same way by spamming that chance of a kick or gaurdbreak. I donít have a problem with his kit, I have a problem with the reward he gets for doing such a simple thing. What does a Centurion need to do to get great damage off? The simplest thing is, and I play on console, press square, and throw them into a wall. Half their health is god from abusing the gaurdbreak mechanic. I get thatís his kit, but I donít think he should get that much damage off one of the most abused mechanics in the game.

2. In response to leaving your stance on right, reflex guards are a thing for some people.

3. Me and my friend went into training, I played as Conquerer and just spammed shield bash, since thatís all Conquerers seem to do. I have yet to come across any who do anything else in duels or Dominion. Anyhow, every time I missed the shieldbash, he would go for a guardbreak, and he got countered every time. Heíd Also try to simply attack me but the recovery time didnít allow it, as I was able to block as well.

4. On the subject of Kenseiís Top heavy Unblockable, my entirepoint was that if he can do that, why canít everybody? Shugoki cannot do it, and neither can Lawbringer. These are just examples Iíve noticed, I believe Aramashuís allgaurd unblockable side follows the same criteria.

5. Iím not complaining about Shugokiís lights not being gaurunteed. Iím complaining that he has a headbutt attack that deals no damage, and practically is useless. Iím simply stating that the light is NOT gaurunteed. Iím not saying it should be. Thatís be broken as hell.

6. Considering how highly you speak of Conquerer, I would assume you were a Conquerer main. Sadly I donít make assumptions. Itís great that he has a bunch of defensive capabilities, but he shouldnít be using only ONE move. By your words, Ďthatís why they only do shield bash into lightí he has an entire kit, players can do more than spam that one move.

7. What an atrocious rebuttal.

8. Almost every game I either face a Kensei, Centurion, Shaman, Conquerer, or any of the Chinese warriors. The Chinese warriors I am fine with because they are new, everyone wants to play them and get better. But you are not going to sit here and tell me the majority of people who play this game play these characters for a challenge. People donít play to have a challenge in this game, they play to win, and theyíll play whoever they wish to justify as not broken to do so. Centurion mains are always going to claim that centurion needs buffs. Shaman mains will do the same, same with Kenseiís and Conquerers. They play these characters because it offers them a high chance of winning. Centurion would be so much worse if you could counter gaurdbreak mid dodge. This is another point I have thought of. You should still be able to counter guardbreak if you get gaurdbroken mid dodge, but I still think it should be harder to do so, perhaps halving the time you get to do so.

9. Rather than actually try and hold an arguement with any of my points like you did regarding the Conquerer Shield Bash, you just gave half-assed retorts.

10. Happy Halloween. Even though weíre arguing I hope you have a good day today. May the night go well.

ArchDukeInstinct
11-01-2018, 02:57 AM
1. Centurion has a soft feint into a guard break. An unblockable kick that gaurunteed a light that he can fake the action of then guardbreak. I would be as mad if not every Centurion played the same way by spamming that chance of a kick or gaurdbreak. I donít have a problem with his kit, I have a problem with the reward he gets for doing such a simple thing. What does a Centurion need to do to get great damage off? The simplest thing is, and I play on console, press square, and throw them into a wall. Half their health is god from abusing the gaurdbreak mechanic. I get thatís his kit, but I donít think he should get that much damage off one of the most abused mechanics in the game.

Allow me to make an assumption that's actually relevant to the situation at hand: You are over reliant on dodging as soon as you see any attack coming. Your constant complaints about guard break and undodgeable attacks make it quite evident now.

The legion kick is 600ms with no ability to cancel, there is plenty of time to dodge on reaction to the kick being initiated.


2. In response to leaving your stance on right, reflex guards are a thing for some people.

But surely you should be anticipating a move that is happening over and over again and putting your block up again. It's 500ms, hardly an unreactable move.


3. Me and my friend went into training, I played as Conquerer and just spammed shield bash, since thatís all Conquerers seem to do. I have yet to come across any who do anything else in duels or Dominion. Anyhow, every time I missed the shieldbash, he would go for a guardbreak, and he got countered every time. Heíd Also try to simply attack me but the recovery time didnít allow it, as I was able to block as well.

Your friend is too slow or your match was having lag issues then. I've had countless examples of it happening to me. If you don't trust my ability to counter guard break (which would be rich coming from you), I've also tested it quite extensively with bots who can perfectly counter guard break every time. It's not only doable, but quite consistent in a lag free environment.


4. On the subject of Kenseiís Top heavy Unblockable, my entirepoint was that if he can do that, why canít everybody? Shugoki cannot do it, and neither can Lawbringer. These are just examples Iíve noticed, I believe Aramashuís allgaurd unblockable side follows the same criteria.

Well I would normally say different classes are different but instead I will say good luck on your next thread where you try to convince Anti-Conqs that Conqueror should be able to cancel into a guard break from charged heavy.


5. Iím not complaining about Shugokiís lights not being gaurunteed. Iím complaining that he has a headbutt attack that deals no damage, and practically is useless. Iím simply stating that the light is NOT gaurunteed. Iím not saying it should be. Thatís be broken as hell.

I'd say that it has some value for it's ability to give Shugoki a bit of time to get his hyper armor back up.


6. Considering how highly you speak of Conquerer, I would assume you were a Conquerer main. Sadly I donít make assumptions. Itís great that he has a bunch of defensive capabilities, but he shouldnít be using only ONE move. By your words, Ďthatís why they only do shield bash into lightí he has an entire kit, players can do more than spam that one move.

Around here they call me the Premier Conq main.


7. What an atrocious rebuttal.

Whatever you say.


8. Almost every game I either face a Kensei, Centurion, Shaman, Conquerer, or any of the Chinese warriors. The Chinese warriors I am fine with because they are new, everyone wants to play them and get better. But you are not going to sit here and tell me the majority of people who play this game play these characters for a challenge. People donít play to have a challenge in this game, they play to win, and theyíll play whoever they wish to justify as not broken to do so. Centurion mains are always going to claim that centurion needs buffs. Shaman mains will do the same, same with Kenseiís and Conquerers. They play these characters because it offers them a high chance of winning.

Centurion does need buffs.

As for the rest, I haven't seen anybody asking for buffs on any of those classes.


Centurion would be so much worse if you could counter gaurdbreak mid dodge. This is another point I have thought of. You should still be able to counter guardbreak if you get gaurdbroken mid dodge, but I still think it should be harder to do so, perhaps halving the time you get to do so.

I thought this couldn't get any worse. Alright, so how exactly would you counter someone who simply dodges everything? This is also provides further evidence of your apparent over-reliance on dodge.


9. Rather than actually try and hold an arguement with any of my points like you did regarding the Conquerer Shield Bash, you just gave half-assed retorts.

And you're lucky I even gave you that.


10. Happy Halloween. Even though weíre arguing I hope you have a good day today. May the night go well.

Happy Halloween.

bannex19
11-01-2018, 03:25 AM
Hero balance?! I'm just hoping for a working power point tomorrow.

Archaelion
11-01-2018, 03:32 AM
Last time I tuned in for hero balance... instead I saw a dumb video of conqueror spamming his taunt and the devs laughing.. yeah..