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View Full Version : Pe 8 should be flyable



XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 03:48 PM
I am a bomber at heart in this game. Whenever online i use bombers i enjoy bombing runs alot and i would like to know why the most fav bomber of online play hasn't been made into a proper flyable plane with a bombsight and controlable gunners. I would also like to know if there is going to be a control for making a bomber stay level and on course so that the bombsight in the he-111 can be adjust easily instead of what you have now. Where you have hand your hand perfectly still on the joystick and try to do a good job at adjusting the bombsight. Anyinfo able this would be greatly welcomed ty

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 03:48 PM
I am a bomber at heart in this game. Whenever online i use bombers i enjoy bombing runs alot and i would like to know why the most fav bomber of online play hasn't been made into a proper flyable plane with a bombsight and controlable gunners. I would also like to know if there is going to be a control for making a bomber stay level and on course so that the bombsight in the he-111 can be adjust easily instead of what you have now. Where you have hand your hand perfectly still on the joystick and try to do a good job at adjusting the bombsight. Anyinfo able this would be greatly welcomed ty

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 04:03 PM
There isn't enough surviving flight model data or internal pictures to model it accurately. So you'll be seeing a flyable Pe-8 about the same time we get a flyable Aurora for FB.

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 04:10 PM
Hi Mr. Squirrel!

As for the Pe-8 i can tell you that there is not enough refence material for the inside of the plane (pit and all turrets). IIRC, no Pe-8 are left and with the few photos of the cockpit that remained, a pit model meeting olegs/1C high level of realism/quality is nearly impossible to do... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

But i think there are a B-17 and a B-24 in the production pipeline, and maybe one of those will be flyable one day /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

P.S.: there is also a Ju-88 with a (nearly?) finished pit on it´s way...


Edit: Why am i always second? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

---------------------------------------
S! Blue_Smiley - online as Farmerboy
Flying Il2 newbie-style since 2001

Message Edited on 07/08/0304:11PM by Blue_smiley

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 04:46 PM
SquirrelSoldier wrote:
- I am a bomber at heart in this game. Whenever online
- i use bombers i enjoy bombing runs alot and i would
- like to know why the most fav bomber of online play
- hasn't been made into a proper flyable plane with a
- bombsight and controlable gunners. I would also like
- to know if there is going to be a control for making
- a bomber stay level and on course so that the
- bombsight in the he-111 can be adjust easily instead
- of what you have now. Where you have hand your hand
- perfectly still on the joystick and try to do a good
- job at adjusting the bombsight. Anyinfo able this
- would be greatly welcomed ty
-
-

Hi SquirrelSoldier

What the others have said about the Pe-8 is true. Shame but there it is.
As for the He111, you need to hit Level Stabilizer when you begin your bombing run. If your plane is trimmed correctly this holds you on straight and level. If it isn't you can still make trim corrections. I can't remember what key LS defaults to, mine is set on =.
In case you haven't seen it, this is the place to go for all your He111 needs: http://www.he111guide.com/
Excellent site with instructions and videos.

Cheers!

<CENTER>


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Then a powerful demon, a prowler through the dark,
nursed a hard grievance.

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 08:24 PM
Same as the rest. The Tb3 is great, slow but fun as heck with a huge bombload.
Im a bomber buff just like you and I know you love bombers because I think I have seen you in my servers before, flying the pe8 and so on.

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XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 09:02 PM
Why not just extrapolate then, and make it up? It may not be historically accurate, but how would anyone else know, could they prove it is wrong with very little data?

As for historical accuracy, the flight models in this game are Oleg and Co's interpretation based on data. Are they totally accurate? No, but I'm sure they give a good representation of real life.





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XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 09:58 PM
here are some detailed blueprints of the PE-8:

http://win.www.airwar.ru/other/draw/pe8.html

http://win.www.airwar.ru/other/draw/pict/pe8-2.jpg


http://win.www.airwar.ru/other/draw/pict/pe8-1.jpg


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XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 10:14 PM
Vev..??


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XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 10:20 AM
No the AI flight models are very basic and are approximations. A FM for a player aircraft is much more detailed.

FirewolfX wrote:
- Why not just extrapolate then, and make it up? It
- may not be historically accurate, but how would
- anyone else know, could they prove it is wrong with
- very little data?
-
- As for historical accuracy, the flight models in
- this game are Oleg and Co's interpretation based on
- data. Are they totally accurate? No, but I'm sure
- they give a good representation of real life.
-


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XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 10:39 AM
Maddox games have enough WW2 plane experts to model a Russian WW2 bomber cockpit
WITH EASE

when it comes to FB we in the WUAF will sound off cheers to Oleg & crew

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 12:48 PM
<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/pe8-2.jpg width=640 height=480 border=0>
<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/pe8-4.jpg width=640 height=480 border=0>
<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/pe8-6.jpg width=640 height=480 border=0>
<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/pe8-8.jpg width=640 height=480 border=0>


<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%; filter:glow[color=#33CCFF, strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

</p><font color=59626B>

XyZspineZyX
07-11-2003, 04:33 AM
We cannot grumble about Oleg's chosen standards but the shortage of more modern Russian bombers in a programme about Russia's struggle may justify a close approximation - particularly in the case of the Pe8 which is a highly underestimated aircraft in that it reflected Russain strategic planning and design which seemed to be beyond the LW at the time.

XyZspineZyX
07-11-2003, 04:44 AM
Put like this::

If *Oleg* does not do Pe~8, Pe~2, or Tu~2...NOBODY EVER WILL /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

These aircraft will truly be lost to human memory if Oleg doesn't Do Something!

XyZspineZyX
07-11-2003, 12:47 PM
Links of Pe-8:


http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/pe-8.html

http://www.aviation.ru/Pe/8/story1/

http://users.skynet.be/milvlieg/Rusland/Petlyakov%20Pe-8.htm

http://avia.russian.ee/air/russia/pe-8.html

XyZspineZyX
07-11-2003, 01:05 PM
Of course no plane in FB flies exactly according to spec. It can't, since simulation is all about modeling, and modeling is all about compromises since you can't model everything. In fact, the specs themselves are approximative models, based on real world trials and calculated expectations. No real world plane ever flew exactly according to spec, and no plane yet does, and probably no plane ever will.

This does not mean that flight test data is unimportant for a realistic behaviour. It's a matter of how much deviation from spec you find acceptable. Some think anything within a reasonable guestimate for a huge lumbering bomber is OK, some think it should be within 1% of the real thing. Oleg and 1C has decided on some quality measure, and I think we can just try to find the data necessary to reach that, or gracefully forget the idea.

The lack of information about cockpits and other manned stations of course makes things difficult. One could argue the decision by Oleg and 1C about accurrate 3D models, but as long as that is what they want, a lot more information than what seems available is needed. Since it's their baby, I think it's only fair to respect their views on the level of accuracy they want to keep (the opinion that some other models falls short of this intention, is another discussion.)
_
/Bjorn.

XyZspineZyX
07-12-2003, 04:25 AM
This is just a guess but I think the reluctance to model more Soviet bombers may be due to the IL-2 Sturmovik being the focal point of this game. Initially other bombers like the Pe-2, Pe-8 etc may have stolen some of the spotlight from a game that honors the IL-2.

Furthermore, I think that if they really wanted to completely model the Pe-8 they would have no problem doing so. Heck, you better believe someone somewhere has photographs and/or drawings.

How about consulting with some pilots that actually flew in one or saw one first hand. I should think that with all the yogurt they eat in Russia some of these guys are still alive.

Lastly, FB flight models can't be 100 percent accurate. If they were, there would be a lot less whining going on. So what would be the harm in adding one more to the mix. They have the basic shape to work with. This should give some indication of the aerodynamics.

XyZspineZyX
07-12-2003, 06:16 AM
Popov_Smirnov wrote:
- This is just a guess but I think the reluctance to
- model more Soviet bombers may be due to the IL-2
- Sturmovik being the focal point of this game.
- Initially other bombers like the Pe-2, Pe-8 etc may
- have stolen some of the spotlight from a game that
- honors the IL-2.

Actually, it has everything to do with the fact that no one can find enough data about this airplanes.

- Furthermore, I think that if they really wanted to
- completely model the Pe-8 they would have no problem
- doing so. Heck, you better believe someone somewhere
- has photographs and/or drawings.

Please find us some, you'd be the hero the game community.

- How about consulting with some pilots that actually
- flew in one or saw one first hand. I should think
- that with all the yogurt they eat in Russia some of
- these guys are still alive.

See above...

- Lastly, FB flight models can't be 100 percent
- accurate. If they were, there would be a lot less
- whining going on. So what would be the harm in
- adding one more to the mix. They have the basic
- shape to work with. This should give some indication
- of the aerodynamics.

If the Il2/FB software were to include a real time projection of physics, this would be possible.. however you should understand for that to be the case, you'd see graphics like F-15 Strike Eagle II returning and even then, it would be slowwwwwwww... So the shape of the aircraft/weight/wing loading is all informationw which can be used to create a Flight Model, but you can't just say, well, its heavy, I bet it dives like this... You have to have more data then that to enter. Sorry /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif



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