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PureFyre7
10-27-2018, 08:20 AM
Marching Trash

Hey lets introduce a new faction that is so overpowered that players will have to buy it or you'll constantly lose.

This game is in the worst state its ever been in. The hero imbalance is just stupid.

Blitzwarrior771
10-27-2018, 10:51 AM
Breach mode is free hero will be free in two weeks 🙄

Herbstlicht
10-27-2018, 01:10 PM
Its weird how many people think the Wu Lin overpowered when they actually are the most balanced faction those days. The only problem I see is the Guan Dao wielder in Breach, he seems better then Nobushi was in her best days and feels almost mandatory. But he isn't really OP in a duel perspective, he is just such an incredibly effective teamplayer and can hold off against other like no one else due to his wide sweeping attacks.

ArmoredChocobo
10-27-2018, 03:48 PM
Its weird how many people think the Wu Lin overpowered when they actually are the most balanced faction those days. The only problem I see is the Guan Dao wielder in Breach, he seems better then Nobushi was in her best days and feels almost mandatory. But he isn't really OP in a duel perspective, he is just such an incredibly effective teamplayer and can hold off against other like no one else due to his wide sweeping attacks.

Hes a heavy that moves like an assassin and has pretty much infinite stamina.

God help you if hes with a teammate.

xBeetis
10-27-2018, 03:54 PM
yet again, another character that needs rework. THE ONLY characters that arnt too bad from MF is tiandi

Devils-_-legacy
10-27-2018, 03:54 PM
People play him like an assassin it's the same as Tandi I don't think I've seen a heavy come from one since the first day of marching fire players need more incentive to use heavy attacks

Tareyus
10-27-2018, 04:12 PM
Ahh crap. I just realized. When the faction is free, there will be more wu lin.

HerrNein
10-27-2018, 04:57 PM
Not going to lie, once the Wu Lin go free for everyone to use, I am probably going to use them with the express intent to mine salt from people whining about how OP they are.

I also find it incredibly funny that the majority of people who whine about Wu Lin being OP are either Zerkers, lightspamming Orochis or Shoulder bash spamming Wardens.

TSCDescon
10-28-2018, 01:20 AM
#stayingwithmybigboiShugoki

#screwDLCheroes

UbiInsulin
10-28-2018, 02:31 AM
Marching Trash

Hey lets introduce a new faction that is so overpowered that players will have to buy it or you'll constantly lose.

This game is in the worst state its ever been in. The hero imbalance is just stupid.

They're going to be available with Steel to all players in a few days. Feel free to bring up any specific suggestions you have for changes to the new heroes, as this thread is currently pretty non-specific. Is your main issue with the speed of their light attacks, or with how involved the move sets of the new heroes are?

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
10-28-2018, 03:07 AM
[]

I play shugoki on console. Holy crap I'm slow. It feels so weird fighting this new faction. Like I'm fighting in water.

RexXZ347
10-28-2018, 06:05 AM
The problem is ubisoft didn't vuff original heroes and instead created a new faction who is stronger than them. They should at first rework every original heroes first before introducing the super faction.

Archaelion
10-28-2018, 06:29 AM
#buffshugoki #makeshugokifatagain

DeathByFluffles
10-28-2018, 06:56 AM
The issue isn't the new faction. They have well-rounded kits and identities. They're fine.

The issue is the older characters have extremely narrow kits, with a few expections (Warden, Lawbringer, Kensei, Etc. Just go look at the top win rate characters and you'll know who has a good kit). Shugoki is the posterchild for a rework, but so far as we've seen is the new nerfs coming his way. Yes, let's make Demon's Embrace, an already clunky and suicidal move, USELESS in the only situation it was used in. THAT'S GAME DESIGN RIGHT THERE, FOLKS. No, what needs to be done is rather simple:

1) ALL old characters need a minimum of 2 pages of special moves. PERIOD. I am tired of looking at a new character and an old one and feeling like I'm comparing Tekken to Smash Brothers. All but Nuxia (Who is a joke) from the Wu Lin faction have PAGES and PAGES of moves. This needs to be true of ALL CHARACTERS. Except Orochi. Abort that unwanted fetus from this game. *Shudders*
2) The feats. This has been a topic for a long time, but the Wu Lin have exacerbated this to new heights. EACH of the new characters have a bevvy of unique, interesting feats that dramatically alter how they can play. With the exception of the Knights (Through sheer power of Catapult), every single character needs a massive feat overhaul. Shugoki, for example, has the most ill-fitting feats I have EVER seen. Tier 1: Iron Lungs (Because Shugoki isn't the slowest in the game or anything, running at the Warden's WALKING speed), Speed Revive (Nothing says MEDIC like a sumo with a spiked club who moves like a snail), and Throw Farther (Because Shugoki has a gap-closing followup for this that has NO RISKS or IN NO WAY relies on spotty Embrace Hit Detection. No Sir!). So all his Tier 1s are COMPLETE TRASH. I could spend hours analyzing just Shugoki, but you get the point. None of these feats SUIT what Shugoki WANTS to do: Sit in one spot and beat some poor sap who tries to take his point.
3) Wonky Animation Speeds. Similar to Shugoki being the poster child for Feat Reworks, Nobushi is the poster child for Attack Speed reworks. Why is a character with Hidden Stance, the best mind games move in the game, stuck with the slowest light speed? There is almost no attack she can dodge with hidden that doesn't force her to dodge out of it or block out of it. Which begs the question: Why didn't you just parry it? This is because her light speed is so abysmal that Shugoki can beat her. That's right, Shugki, the fat man with a stick, can outrange and OUT TRADE with Nobushi. I've done it countless times on both ends of the fight. Another issue is Nobushi's side lights. They have no i-frames. At all. While XxXOrochi-The-Spammer-LordXxX gets some of the best i-frame data in the GAME on dodge. In addition to having a high-damage parry combo. And a high damage grab combo. Etc. Etc. When you put reworked characters alongside ones that haven't been touched, it becomes painfully obvious.

I'm sure there's more to be said, but the issue isn't the MASSIVE toolboxes that the Wu Lin have. It's the lack of utility the base cast has.

Velentix
10-28-2018, 07:09 AM
I think the problem with the wu Lin isnt that theyre OP, its that they have complete well thought out move sets with an answer to most any situation. Unlike most of the OG heroes. Example: shugomama, lawdaddy, and warlord. Those three have legitamitely nothing going for them as far as mind games go.

After playing as tiandi for a bit I went back to my warlord and frankly was appalled at just how boring and limited he was in every way, and he is a supposed lord of war.

Non reworked heroes (and some reworked) simply dont have the kit to keep up with the newer/reworked heroes.

Jazz117Volkov
10-28-2018, 09:14 AM
I don't like the way the new heroes are put together with the exception of Shaolin, he seems pretty cool, at least in theory. The rest are really gimmicky and they don't feel very tested. Tinadi's palm strike can be easily spammed and it's powerful enough to interrupt a Warden's charged bash and guarantee damage. It'd be nice if Ubi didn't suck them off quite this hard.

Overpowered? Well, that's up for debate.
Horrendously obnoxious? Without a doubt.

I've said it already. The Wu Lin are reducing the gameplay to light parries. There's no skill involved when your opponent has borderline infinite i-frames while they dance around, either committing to the heavy, canceling into a tracking light, cancelling into a guardbreak, cancelling into a bash. Each option guarantees damage against multiple defensive behaviours (turtling, dodging, parrying), and the dodge itself counters initiations. The fact that Ubi would want their game to play like this is more frustrating than how it actually plays.

PeaceKeeper's Hero Tactics sums up the state of the game. Half of them are just variants of stab cancel because the kit is so garbage there are no tactics to list. "We will show you how to avoid doing damage". Nice tactic.

IAmOddGirl
10-28-2018, 10:50 AM
Hes a heavy that moves like an assassin and has pretty much infinite stamina.

God help you if hes with a teammate.

Actually he loses stamina really fast. You have to get in his hidden stance basically to regen stamina. So if you are letting him do that then you pretty much begged for it. I main him right now..his stamina is crazy high in regards to stamina cost per move and feint.

RexXZ347
10-28-2018, 12:02 PM
Actually he loses stamina really fast. You have to get in his hidden stance basically to regen stamina. So if you are letting him do that then you pretty much begged for it. I main him right now..his stamina is crazy high in regards to stamina cost per move and feint.

but his recovery is fast too.

Tareyus
10-29-2018, 04:22 AM
Not going to lie, once the Wu Lin go free for everyone to use, I am probably going to use them with the express intent to mine salt from people whining about how OP they are.

I also find it incredibly funny that the majority of people who whine about Wu Lin being OP are either Zerkers, lightspamming Orochis or Shoulder bash spamming Wardens.

Nah, that's what you call ******ed hypocrites.

SirRegisKeg
10-29-2018, 04:22 PM
It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't take a massive dump on the dedicated players who have been here since beta. No gear stats overhaul. It's not an over haul when you get rid of the customization entirely. And then to further spit in your eye they give us perks but limit the perks only to certain characters. When its obvious, such perks like " gain more renown " are completely useless in a fight. Gear stats made this unbalanced game a little more balanced. Now 4v4 is just "the best character wins".

Ps I'm going to take the time to really learn to beat these characters. But anyone saying they don't need to be at least looked at is a wu lin player. Jiang Jun can spam sifu poise when out of stam. Basically he recreated the assassin meta , he becomes unpunishable because you can't catch him, he can keep back dashing with sifu, until stam regenerates. I've noticed alot if players haven't figured this out yet. They will soon

Roseguard_Cpt
10-29-2018, 04:43 PM
The only issue with the Wu-Lin for me is that the attacks and animations are not synched, with hits landing before the animation actually plays out or would connect.

PS, gear stats did not balance the game. It only made the best classes even better and easier to spam with. Now everyone has to play like a duelist except JJs

SirRegisKeg
10-29-2018, 05:02 PM
The only issue with the Wu-Lin for me is that the attacks and animations are not synched, with hits landing before the animation actually plays out or would connect.

PS, gear stats did not balance the game. It only made the best classes even better and easier to spam with. Now everyone has to play like a duelist except JJs

Most people who say that didn't use gear stats adequately. If assassins were a problem for you before you just needed defense gear. Now defense is limited so 2 zerkers can melt you with like 3 heavies . 1 step forward 4 steps back. Ya assassins don't have their precious attack gear , but since their base stats are better to begin with you can no longer counter with stats of your choice.

Devils-_-legacy
10-29-2018, 05:20 PM
I'm happy with the gear changes at least without gear stats to buff heros we can get closer to a more balanced game.
Imo gear stats are one of the reason it took so long to balance portions of the game with them gone you can see the massive flaws in heros kit from them burning stamina too quick to dealing too low damage.

SirRegisKeg
10-29-2018, 06:03 PM
I'm happy with the gear changes at least without gear stats to buff heros we can get closer to a more balanced game.
Imo gear stats are one of the reason it took so long to balance portions of the game with them gone you can see the massive flaws in heros kit from them burning stamina too quick to dealing too low damage.

This comment makes no sense your saying without gear stats you can see massive character flaws but with gear stats the game wasn't balanced? And without them characters are closer to being balanced?

Devils-_-legacy
10-29-2018, 08:10 PM
This comment makes no sense your saying without gear stats you can see massive character flaws but with gear stats the game wasn't balanced? And without them characters are closer to being balanced?
Was ment to start from imo lol
Ok I'll give you an example
How can you buff a heros stamina when with added gear stats they would be broken in 4v4. The gear stats were a crutch now with static stats we can see the massive flaws

SirRegisKeg
10-29-2018, 11:16 PM
Was ment to start from imo lol
Ok I'll give you an example
How can you buff a heros stamina when with added gear stats they would be broken in 4v4. The gear stats were a crutch now with static stats we can see the massive flaws

Massive flaws you can't guarantee yourself they will fix

Devils-_-legacy
10-29-2018, 11:27 PM
Massive flaws you can't guarantee yourself they will fix

Can you guarantee they wont

Rhyza.
10-29-2018, 11:43 PM
Actually he loses stamina really fast. You have to get in his hidden stance basically to regen stamina. So if you are letting him do that then you pretty much begged for it. I main him right now..his stamina is crazy high in regards to stamina cost per move and feint.

O, I know he has a high stamina cost for his chains, but his stance regenerates it from nill in, what, three seconds tops? And he can use it when he's stamina broken? He doesn't need much breathing room. A good parry and you can fall back into it and top off. I'm not a fan of it, but I really dislike that it can be used when his stamina is gone.

SixAxe505
10-30-2018, 01:49 AM
O, I know he has a high stamina cost for his chains, but his stance regenerates it from nill in, what, three seconds tops? And he can use it when he's stamina broken? He doesn't need much breathing room. A good parry and you can fall back into it and top off. I'm not a fan of it, but I really dislike that it can be used when his stamina is gone.

I could not agree more, sifu stance needs to be nerfed by becoming unaccessible in OOS. Actually I should say balanced instead of nerfed.

Wolfheart86
10-30-2018, 02:42 PM
They're going to be available with Steel to all players in a few days. Feel free to bring up any specific suggestions you have for changes to the new heroes, as this thread is currently pretty non-specific. Is your main issue with the speed of their light attacks, or with how involved the move sets of the new heroes are?

Just wanna say **** you Ubisoft, really **** all of you! The only problem i had before MF released was the changed and horrible voice acting. After the relese i logged in and i found out that it has been delayed. I WAS OVERJOYED, i couldn't believe that such things could happen. It's " you play what we tell you to play or go play something else" right Ubi? But then i met the wonderful new heroes that everyone loves!(and that **** perk system) It's a massive **** you for players who play older heroes, like me who mained Raider. Raider is the only hero i enjoy playing, i bought the damn game cause of Raider! Now hes utterly worthless against the chinese. They negate everything that i can throw at them, every damn move that he has. Back then shaman was a ****ing nightmare but this, this is just a whole new level of misery. Since Raider rework is never gonna happen and im never gonna buy even one of the new heroes i might as well just quit before i get stomach ulcer. You guys at ubi would make great torturers, raising hope just to crush it, stomp it into the ground, teeth flying everywhere.... This was the last game i bought from you, from now on im gonna pirate every damn game you will release.

Diegis.
10-30-2018, 02:52 PM
Marching Trash

Hey lets introduce a new faction that is so overpowered that players will have to buy it or you'll constantly lose.

This game is in the worst state its ever been in. The hero imbalance is just stupid.

git good! wu lin is the most balanced faction. just stop spamming lights

SirRegisKeg
10-31-2018, 12:20 AM
Can you guarantee they wont

I'm not the guy boasting like they will , I'm talking about the games current and constant state of unbalance

DefiledDragon
10-31-2018, 02:01 AM
Just wanna say **** you Ubisoft, really **** all of you! The only problem i had before MF released was the changed and horrible voice acting. After the relese i logged in and i found out that it has been delayed. I WAS OVERJOYED, i couldn't believe that such things could happen. It's " you play what we tell you to play or go play something else" right Ubi? But then i met the wonderful new heroes that everyone loves!(and that **** perk system) It's a massive **** you for players who play older heroes, like me who mained Raider. Raider is the only hero i enjoy playing, i bought the damn game cause of Raider! Now hes utterly worthless against the chinese. They negate everything that i can throw at them, every damn move that he has. Back then shaman was a ****ing nightmare but this, this is just a whole new level of misery. Since Raider rework is never gonna happen and im never gonna buy even one of the new heroes i might as well just quit before i get stomach ulcer. You guys at ubi would make great torturers, raising hope just to crush it, stomp it into the ground, teeth flying everywhere.... This was the last game i bought from you, from now on im gonna pirate every damn game you will release.

That was a pretty epic rant.