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View Full Version : This Needs to be said



HerrNein
10-27-2018, 02:23 AM
Ok, so just going to address it. What we need to do is address what it is people are whining about with the Wu Lin. I did not even buy the expansion, but when I see so many people here crying about the Chinese heroes, I feel the need to say this is what almost all of them sound like is some little kid going 'REEEEEEEEEEEEEE'

Seriously? Have any of these people even bothered trying to mix up their approaches to these new heroes? The vibe I am getting is that all those crying are essentially trying to use the same tactics from else where on new heroes and expect only positive results.

I don't even own the expansion, I am waiting until the 30th to unlock these interesting new heroes, but seriously? Can we just address the matter that people need to stop whining about "OP Wu Lin hurt my feelings!" because they couldn't be bothered how to figure out a new approach to combat a new foe? There are already videos for it.

Big JJ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sdiYwzkFK8&t=242s

Tiandi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo6lhk6ZhV0

Shaolin and Nuxia really shouldn't be all that much of a fuss to counter. You have equally annoying heroes in the Peacekeeper and Orochi running amok for months. The new heroes aren't gods. -You- are simply refusing to adapt and are going the way of the dodo bird.

Knight_Raime
10-27-2018, 09:25 AM
This happens everytime a hero is reworked/added. People will cry for the first month or so. Then when most of the people have gotten used to the new stuff the complaints die down to only the hardcore people who refuse to accept any personal blame are the only ones still complaining.

SpaceJim12
10-29-2018, 09:59 AM
This happens everytime a hero is reworked/added. People will cry for the first month or so. Then when most of the people have gotten used to the new stuff the complaints die down to only the hardcore people who refuse to accept any personal blame are the only ones still complaining.

Do you really think Conq with 60% winrate in duels are ok? Do you really think Raider dominating 4v4 don't need rework? Do you really think JJ don't need nerf for a level of others heavy, or others heavy need buff to his level? Do you really think it's ok to add new idiotic mechanic with this Nuxia attack on block and let casual players without expansion to be curious for two weeks what the hell is happening?
The only reason, why people stop to made feedback threads about unbalanced thing is Ubi just don't care. They need monthes, sometimes half a year to do something with their balance. So people post feedback, read "we will let team know!", then we see 5,5 full rework for almost a year, one of it still need some balance fixes, and what Ubi did? Right, made 4 brand new characters, which lead us to understanding, that all others need rework now to be compared with this Wu Lin.
I don't understand what's wrong with you people. Ubi keep giving you crap after crap and you just ask for more.
The two good things in Marching Fire is perk system (which must be in game for 1,5 year already) and Breach mode, which still needs fixes to many things.

Daubenyfanclub
10-29-2018, 03:13 PM
The Wu Lin aren't OP. Tiandi seems pretty fair and Nuxia's trap is useless unless you don't pay attention. JJ is powerful, but that's from the unblockables and hyperarmor he has, in addition to his speed. However, he's not invulnerable. The only char I'd say is unbalanced is Shaolin, purely due to the fact that a few issues that JJ shares (attacks not with the animation) makes for a frustrating char to fight.

Also trying to balance 4v4 is pretty stupid. Raider in 4v4 is good because he has a gank kit, same for other chars like Cent or LB. Shaolin, however, is truly broken in 4v4 due to his teleports alone making him a must for Breach and Tribute (offerings can be insta'd or the tele kick can ledge without a counter.) and as an assassin, he can essentially pull apart some slower chars in addition to that.

Lord_Cherubi
10-29-2018, 03:33 PM
I think some of those people might not exactly know the true meaning of the word "OP"

I simply don't understand how some of the players feel any of the Wu Lin are overpowered or broken in any way? They simply have more utility, options, which many of the original cast heroes lack completely but that's not a issue with the new ones but the fact that the og roster needs to get balanced and brought to the level the Wu Lin are now.

My only concern is how Ubi will do this, all of the Wu Lin share a theme of being highly mobile and swift characters but the original heroes need to keep their identity.

Devils-_-legacy
10-29-2018, 03:45 PM
The only overpower parts is Tandis superior dodge lights he doesn't need them and jjs stifu stance could do with a slight nurf either make it gb vulnerable or lower the stamina regeneration other these I don't see a issue shoalin just has so many options but he needs a light/heavy to start him off nuxia is just a light spammer her traps you can shut down with a light

Jazz117Volkov
10-29-2018, 03:50 PM
Too much of the Wu Lin are built around ideas that go against the game's chemistry. All their gimmicks shut down too many options leaving most fights with them feeling like awkward QTEs.

For the most part though they look really cool...that's a positive. Nuxia and Tiandi's animations are really bland though compared to the other two, especially Shaolin. That dude has it going on, but Nuxia...what even is she doing?

SirRegisKeg
10-29-2018, 04:55 PM
4v4 and duel are not the same, this is the problem with players like this guy. Its obvious the dev's made these characters strong for the sake of getting players to buy them . You're actually a child to believe otherwise. They need your money , it's a company. I'm more upset about my hard earned gear stats being thrown away for these cheap perks. Players like you haven't noticed, but ditching gear stats also soft nerfed other characters who have feats that go hand in hand with gear stats. For instance I use guard penetration gear mixed with warlord punch through feat which is a really helpful stack against players who turtle out what minimal mix ups warlord has. Now his feat does a small amount of chip and for some reason its passive but now has cool down. You kids don't pay attention or maybe you're just all wu lin wankers. How about we share other soft nerfs other characters got . Raider had a stamina cost reduction feat that went along with cost reduction gear , which made him a viable character. Haha not anymore

Knight_Raime
10-29-2018, 09:23 PM
Do you really think Conq with 60% winrate in duels are ok? Do you really think Raider dominating 4v4 don't need rework? Do you really think JJ don't need nerf for a level of others heavy, or others heavy need buff to his level? Do you really think it's ok to add new idiotic mechanic with this Nuxia attack on block and let casual players without expansion to be curious for two weeks what the hell is happening?
The only reason, why people stop to made feedback threads about unbalanced thing is Ubi just don't care. They need monthes, sometimes half a year to do something with their balance. So people post feedback, read "we will let team know!", then we see 5,5 full rework for almost a year, one of it still need some balance fixes, and what Ubi did? Right, made 4 brand new characters, which lead us to understanding, that all others need rework now to be compared with this Wu Lin.
I don't understand what's wrong with you people. Ubi keep giving you crap after crap and you just ask for more.
The two good things in Marching Fire is perk system (which must be in game for 1,5 year already) and Breach mode, which still needs fixes to many things.

I don't think win rate alone should dictate a hero getting or not getting any changes. So conq's win rate is irrelevant to me. On a personal level I don't enjoy conq's kit. Not what I wanted from his. But I don't think his kit is a balance problem. It's just boring and not fun to play as or against. I don't think raider needs a massive rework. But I do think he needs changes. JJ needs his bugs fixed and his feats nerfed. But looking at his kit as it's own thing no. I don't think his kit needs nerfing. He's rather weak as far as kit design is concerned. I would love for other heavies to be as fun as JJ. He's the first heavy I actually enjoy.
Nuxia's trap mechanic is a good addition to the game. It forces people to be proactive in a fight instead of passive. That being said she needs polishing so her kit actually works conceptually. I made a thread about it and Tiandi a few days ago.

There is a difference between a feedback thread and a complaint thread. Most posts so far about the wu-lin have not been constructive. It's just people venting because they're struggling with something new. If you took my original post as me writing off any feedback based on the new heros/reworks i'm sorry. But that's not what I was saying. I was only noting the pattern established which anyone can see from being here a long time. The point of noting the pattern is simply to make people aware of it. Not to dismiss or support anything.

I choose to look at it this way. The things are the way they are and I have a choice. I can either accept that the game has it's issues and likely will never be in an acceptable state (as I see acceptable in my eyes) and just learn to enjoy what I like about the game. Or I can do what i've been doing up until marching fire dropped. Where I constantly end my sessions with frustration at the simple mistakes/problems that still persist with the game continuing to make threads repeating the same issues where nothing productive is happening.

It doesn't matter why things are not being changed faster. Or why some things are being seemingly ignored. There is no point in speculating or shoving my frustration down the throats of other forum members/the developers. All I can do is enjoy the game for what it is. And occasionally make suggestions knowing full well things likely won't change. Or at least won't be effected in the way I find to be ideal.

I would suggest to you and all others who constantly have this attitude of yours to drop the game completely if you can't manage to have fun. If your fun is constantly usurped by your frustrations then playing the game and sticking with these forums is not healthy for you. And you should do yourself the favor and move on.

LedgeAllegiance
10-29-2018, 11:55 PM
My problem with the new characters is the recovery time they have. Shaolin for example did a top unblockable and anticipated it and dodge to gb on raider and he was able to counter guard break it. I'll admit I just started back so my reaction time is a lot slower than it was before but if I'm not mistaken every other character has large recovery time from unblockables, should be no different to new characters. I have yet to play the new characters and could be terrible servers but if anyone could elaborate on this would really appreciate it.

Vendelkin
10-30-2018, 02:00 AM
Honestly the only two times I felt new hereos were incredibly OP was the day of INCREDIBLIS centurion (4v4 was god awful during that time) and then the Shaman. other than that I've felt all character releases werent that bad... cept maybe the highlander (who ont he flipside sucked terribly at release)

Vendelkin
10-30-2018, 02:02 AM
My problem with the new characters is the recovery time they have. Shaolin for example did a top unblockable and anticipated it and dodge to gb on raider and he was able to counter guard break it. I'll admit I just started back so my reaction time is a lot slower than it was before but if I'm not mistaken every other character has large recovery time from unblockables, should be no different to new characters. I have yet to play the new characters and could be terrible servers but if anyone could elaborate on this would really appreciate it.

Kensei doesn't really, you can chain dodges out pretty fast. Valkyrie can come out of hers really quick. The conquers counter unblockables also have almost no recovery. Generally speaking unblockables can be moved outta pretty quick. Only the hard shoulder bashes and etc are different, but that makes sense. (And the dang slow Shugokis big smack. he really really needs a rework)

MumfordDaHound
10-30-2018, 04:34 AM
The recovery is pretty noticable on all of them. They flow into attacks way faster then the rest of the roster.
I was practicing vs JJ and he is pretty stupid. A lvl 2 bot does some serious work. His attacks happen way faster then they should be. Not sure if it's an animation thing or just his speed in general. His range and tracking is pretty crazy too. Same with monk in regards to tracking. I was dodge attacking JJs attacks and he can block it in certain situations.

SpaceJim12
10-30-2018, 10:11 AM
I don't think win rate alone should dictate a hero getting or not getting any changes. So conq's win rate is irrelevant to me. On a personal level I don't enjoy conq's kit. Not what I wanted from his. But I don't think his kit is a balance problem. It's just boring and not fun to play as or against. I don't think raider needs a massive rework. But I do think he needs changes. JJ needs his bugs fixed and his feats nerfed. But looking at his kit as it's own thing no. I don't think his kit needs nerfing. He's rather weak as far as kit design is concerned. I would love for other heavies to be as fun as JJ. He's the first heavy I actually enjoy.
Nuxia's trap mechanic is a good addition to the game. It forces people to be proactive in a fight instead of passive. That being said she needs polishing so her kit actually works conceptually. I made a thread about it and Tiandi a few days ago.

There is a difference between a feedback thread and a complaint thread. Most posts so far about the wu-lin have not been constructive. It's just people venting because they're struggling with something new. If you took my original post as me writing off any feedback based on the new heros/reworks i'm sorry. But that's not what I was saying. I was only noting the pattern established which anyone can see from being here a long time. The point of noting the pattern is simply to make people aware of it. Not to dismiss or support anything.

I choose to look at it this way. The things are the way they are and I have a choice. I can either accept that the game has it's issues and likely will never be in an acceptable state (as I see acceptable in my eyes) and just learn to enjoy what I like about the game. Or I can do what i've been doing up until marching fire dropped. Where I constantly end my sessions with frustration at the simple mistakes/problems that still persist with the game continuing to make threads repeating the same issues where nothing productive is happening.

It doesn't matter why things are not being changed faster. Or why some things are being seemingly ignored. There is no point in speculating or shoving my frustration down the throats of other forum members/the developers. All I can do is enjoy the game for what it is. And occasionally make suggestions knowing full well things likely won't change. Or at least won't be effected in the way I find to be ideal.

I would suggest to you and all others who constantly have this attitude of yours to drop the game completely if you can't manage to have fun. If your fun is constantly usurped by your frustrations then playing the game and sticking with these forums is not healthy for you. And you should do yourself the favor and move on.

Yes, there is a difference between a feedback thread and complaint. Yes, every new hero have a lot of complaint threads, but still there are enough of real feedback that compleatly ignores by devs and full of "git gud" elite posts. Raider, for example. You can't easily say he need nerf, cause you will get tons of negative from raider mainers, who complaint about duels. Still, Raider was a best choice for 4v4 until Marching Fire.
Already enough real feedback on Wu Lin. Their animation the real issue, cause not compared with indicators. And I can bet all my steel, that devs never touch this issue, and we just get used to timings.
My post is not about frustrating or something. Actually, I'm just returned to the game, and I enjoy Breach. Yes, I think JJ is OP, but only compared with other heavies. Still, my post is about people, who sometimes sounds like they avoid every issue of the game, ready to accept any stupid thing devs could give to them. I don't think real complaint threads could help, but I think people should write a lot about game issues, cause if we all looks like everything fine, devs keep on closing eyes on real issues.
Breach and perks system are a healthy changes for the game. Still there are a lot of complaints about it and only 20% of it are a real feedback. If developers really care about their project, they should find this 20% and summarize it for possible fixes.

RexXZ347
10-30-2018, 10:42 AM
I am not mad about the wu lin being strong. I am just mad on how the devs aren't listening to the community on reworking the old heroes. People complain not because they are strong. People complain because of the hero they used to love playing is being easily countered by wu lin.

SpaceJim12
10-30-2018, 11:40 AM
I am not mad about the wu lin being strong. I am just mad on how the devs aren't listening to the community on reworking the old heroes. People complain not because they are strong. People complain because of the hero they used to love playing is being easily countered by wu lin.

I tried some old characters against Wu Lin in Breach. And I can't fully agree with you.
As Warden I have trouble with Monk and Tiandi, as Centurion I have none problem with Wu Lin. But when I play LB or Nobu, I really understand how strong Wu Lin are. LB always OOS in seconds, now need to wait and counter. Nobu looks really strange compared with JJ. He even feels faster, than Nobu. It's stupid.
The main problem with JJ is he too strong compared with old heavies. Still, when I played couple games as Kensei, I have no problems fighting Wu Lin.
I hope the next step for devs is buff/rework for LB, Shugo, Warlord. They are not bad itself, but really puppies compared to JJ. I think they need to bring real rework for Nobu and PK.

RexXZ347
10-30-2018, 12:17 PM
I tried some old characters against Wu Lin in Breach. And I can't fully agree with you.
As Warden I have trouble with Monk and Tiandi, as Centurion I have none problem with Wu Lin. But when I play LB or Nobu, I really understand how strong Wu Lin are. LB always OOS in seconds, now need to wait and counter. Nobu looks really strange compared with JJ. He even feels faster, than Nobu. It's stupid.
The main problem with JJ is he too strong compared with old heavies. Still, when I played couple games as Kensei, I have no problems fighting Wu Lin.
I hope the next step for devs is buff/rework for LB, Shugo, Warlord. They are not bad itself, but really puppies compared to JJ. I think they need to bring real rework for Nobu and PK.

you know what is another ****ing wrong with JJ? When he is in revenge he can spam that unblockable dodge attack that can be feinted into a light. Add the unsynchronized animation to the damage plus a little bit of lag. You can't do anything.

SpaceJim12
10-30-2018, 12:53 PM
you know what is another ****ing wrong with JJ? When he is in revenge he can spam that unblockable dodge attack that can be feinted into a light. Add the unsynchronized animation to the damage plus a little bit of lag. You can't do anything.

Unfortunatly, animation which not compared with indicators are issue for all Wu Lin (maybe except Shaolin).
Some people already posted about it, there are some videos on youtube as well.
But I think it's not a bug or something. Devs did it intentionally, hoping this will let new characters feels very strong at least for a month. For 1.5 a year we all get used to look at animation and compared it with indicators. It's important to look at animations to see feints. Som Ubi used this against us just to make sure, that newbies, who bought marching fire feel unstopable for this two weeks of early access.

RexXZ347
10-31-2018, 05:38 AM
Unfortunatly, animation which not compared with indicators are issue for all Wu Lin (maybe except Shaolin).
Some people already posted about it, there are some videos on youtube as well.
But I think it's not a bug or something. Devs did it intentionally, hoping this will let new characters feels very strong at least for a month. For 1.5 a year we all get used to look at animation and compared it with indicators. It's important to look at animations to see feints. Som Ubi used this against us just to make sure, that newbies, who bought marching fire feel unstopable for this two weeks of early access.

lmfao. I thought it was just only me who came up with that theory. They need more money because old players are quitting the game. So they need to fool newbies. Nice strategy.