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HazelrahFirefly
10-23-2018, 12:23 PM
Wu-Tang, as I prefer.

Anyway, instead of making a complaint thread I wanted to try and start a helpful discussion thread about the new heroes. I'll start of course, since I am making the thread.

From my experience so far the Nuxia and Shaolin aren't that difficult to fight, and the JJ has weird animations but otherwise feels fair. The Tiandi I haven't grasped at all yet, to the point that I actually quit fighting one the other day due to frustration. I felt bad about letting him just kill me, but i wasn't countering him at all anyway.

ytrecvbnm
10-23-2018, 01:51 PM
The Nuxia and tiandi seem fine, though getting used as a soccer ball by the Tiandi is kind of annoying, though still funny.

The teleport distance on the Shaolin is a lil over done, there are times I think they crashed/ left, then they are bashing me from behind.

The JJ light attack damage feels high. There are times they take out my Shin in seconds.

Honey_Badgerik
10-23-2018, 02:45 PM
I have trouble right now with Tiandi and Shaolin, but Shaolin I can beat every now and then. I found with him to be offensive and don't let him set up his stances and I pretty much will win unless the guy is good at defense too. Right now most seem like spammers of the quick dodging heavy from his stances. Really it's too fast of light mix up that you can't Dodge because they all have undodgable property from those two but I think we will get used to it. . Also yes JJ chain light does too much dmg for how fast it is.

Vakris_One
10-23-2018, 02:51 PM
I think Tiandi is a low powered version of Beserker with really good feats. He's the strongest Wu Lin imo but he's not OP. Shaolin is ok, feels a bit Gladiatorish. Kind of like Gladiator if he didn't have a super safe zone attack to abuse. Nothing too much going on for him offensively in terms of having an opener. He flows quite well into his comboes if he can find a way into them but without a reliable opener he's kinda just ok. The teleport feat is annoying and will most definitely become another one of those hated feats.

JJ is weak in 1v1 but quite useable and fun in team fights from my time playing him in the beta. His feats are really good for team fights. The problem is his hit boxes are worse than both Kensei and Nobushi so his whole schtick of being "wide attack boi" is not really true. His damage is quite good, on par with Kensei I'd say but not Highlander levels of massiveness, which is a good thing. In 1v1 his offensive pressure is similiar to Raider, i.e. slim to none once you learn what he can do and how to counter everything he can try. Much like Raider most of JJ's damage in a 1v1 comes from the opponent making mistakes rather than Jiang Jun having any kind of serious pressure. I see people on this forum complaining a lot about JJ so I'll link Craic's guide on how to shut down a Jiang Jun. It's pretty much all you need to know about how to counter anything a Jiang Jun can try to do:

https://youtu.be/3sdiYwzkFK8

Nuxia is the weakest of the bunch imo. Essentially a discount PK with non-viable trap heavies. She can be annoying because of her light spam and if you're in a gank vs more than one of her but that's about it. She's annoying and can be obnoxious but she's not particularly strong. With a mechanic like trap however I don't see there being a middle ground. You either make it a semi-useless novelty move like it is now or you buff its speed in chain and thus it becomes the stuff of 50/50 nightmares. Of course I haven't played her and have no real interest in her playstyle so it could just be me thinking traps can only either be flashy but useless if somewhat occassionally annoying or just oppressively strong.

HazelrahFirefly
10-23-2018, 04:38 PM
I've been enjoying Nuxia quite a bit, but I do have to use her traps sparsely. If they hadn't added the follow up light after I would never use them though. Otherwise her kit is pretty basic but I kinda like that because her damage output is strong to compensate.

iadvisoryi
10-23-2018, 06:03 PM
I'm 5 levels away from a rep 7 tiandi and I can tell you exactly how to counter him, it's bizzare to me that your not struggling with Shaolin considering he is the best out of the bunch and JJ in a close second.

If all a tiandi is doing is dashing lights to CA and get poke, you should be able to read the parry, if not, try to keep and hold pressure by staggering lights to poke him out.

If he is strictly counter attacking grab him, or faint something to cause a reaction and get the parry.

If he's using his zone, block left 90% of the time, cuz his top light should be the only hard to react to light. Dodge around his pokes and if you manage to dodge his kick don't try to grab, there is a small gap in which you can grab freely but after that it's risky, he can poke or dash cancel out of his kick.

If you don't have trouble with Shaolin then you shouldn't have trouble with tiandi lol

iadvisoryi
10-23-2018, 06:08 PM
Also I've fought a lot of jj's, when they run out of stamina in dual it's go time for pressure, but if the JJ is smart, and kwtd, I've gotten smoked by their 20+ dmg lights and dash mix's, and Dodge property punishes.

Nuxia is pretty easy to deal with, since I see a heavy coming and I swing instantly

Shaolins pokes are hard to see coming, his mix, and faints are very good, and his dmg output on his dash heavies to ca is insane. Shaolin I'm is the best out of the 4 almost by far since he supports many playstyles and has tons of utility.

Blitzwarrior771
10-23-2018, 06:30 PM
im Lvl 40/40 kensei I play nothing else but kensei . Iím hard core samurai who would never change the faction but now Iím tempted . Wu Lin matches my playstyle on top of that they are all faster then my kensei . I wish they give kensei back his dodge make him faster and it should not be interupted . 80 % of time dodge fail itís useless and it because fail kensei get punished hard . Otherwise Iím gonna switch to Wulin and dishonour the samurai code . Please watch on you tube sasaki kojiro vs Chinese man you made samurais looks bad ubi 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡

NHLGoldenKnight
10-23-2018, 07:09 PM
Well, if someone has an advice how to fight these heroes with Lawbringer, I am all ears.

Currently, JJ wins by higher damage and stamina management
Tiandi out dodges me, Shaolin spams me too fast and Nuxia punishes every block /parry I try.

DefiledDragon
10-23-2018, 07:39 PM
Well, if someone has an advice how to fight these heroes with Lawbringer, I am all ears.

Currently, JJ wins by higher damage and stamina management
Tiandi out dodges me, Shaolin spams me too fast and Nuxia punishes every block /parry I try.

Have you tried blocking them, or shoving them? That might work. You could also try hitting them with that ginormous poleaxe you're carrying. That will probably do the trick.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-23-2018, 08:14 PM
I tried everything I can. Of course, I am just casual player, not very skilled. But Nuxia and Shaolin escape every heavy, feinted or not. I can hit JJ but he still seems to be faster or more fluid, plus better damage and stamina regen.

DefiledDragon
10-23-2018, 09:04 PM
I tried everything I can. Of course, I am just casual player, not very skilled. But Nuxia and Shaolin escape every heavy, feinted or not. I can hit JJ but he still seems to be faster or more fluid, plus better damage and stamina regen.

You should play to your characters offensive strengths. You're playing Lawbringer. Hmm, ok, well maybe you could, errrr.... hmmmm.... well maybe..... hang on..... ahhh.....

I'll get back to you on this one.

Knight_Raime
10-23-2018, 09:17 PM
Speaking from a 1v1 experience here these are the tips I can give from what i've played so far:

Tiandi: Dragon dodge is borked right now. either due to how the I frames work or how little they are (as the competitive sub has evidence that supports both) So if you have any wide sweeping attacks or just attacks that cover a good area use those against him. He'll eventually stop trying to dragon dodge from neutral or at least stop using it so frequently. Palm strike can be treated like centurion's kick for the most part as both are 600ms bashes. Meaning you respond to the palm strike with a dodge attack. Not a dodge into GB. Biggest thing to keep in mind when fighting him is that he can flow pretty much everything into everything. So don't treat him like the standard cast in that he does one thing and is done. Also he can use palm strike on reaction to GB attempts. So don't feint to GB a lot.

Shaolin: A very common tactic that I both fight and imploy myself is a random heavy feint into a walking backwards top light that is held. His animations with his staff are complex so the sheer movement throws people off. And his top light is 400ms in neutral. Back into light held is a great response to people trying to apply aggressive pressure and even if it misses you've guaranteed a safe way into qi stance. His basic attacks have deceptive reach along with his qi stance side heavies. And his top heavy in qi has very good early tracking. Finally there is an exploit that through a combanation of button presses lets you feint into qi stance. But it is a very specific one. So if you know what you're looking for you shouldn't be tripped up by it.

The best way to deal with the first tactic is to simply bait out a situation in which he'd try to use the 400ms to interrupt and then parry. though simply blocking top also works. To deal with his qi stance you must understand what he's capable of doing after feinting it. It takes 200ms to get into the stance. He can block 300ms after feinting. And do everything else after 500ms from feinting. So ideally you'd want to bait him into a cancel and then respond with something that requires quick reflexes. Like conq's forward bash mix up. Shaolin doesn't really have an answer to bash mix ups in general. The common thing people struggle to deal with is after he enter's qi he either kicks or goes for side dodge heavy.

You can't react to the kick due to it being a 500ms bash from essentially neutral. You can only counter that on a read. His dodge heavy while long reaching and a good answer for people who dodge. it isn't a good answer for attacks as it has no dodge frames. Here you have two options. Either walk backwards constantly to space out his kick and get a GB. Or play a hero with armor and space out. If you don't have armor spacing works just fine because it will force him to close the gap which you can punish. or he'll just attempt to go for his side dash heavy due to it's deceptive range. So you can just react parry that. And if you have armor you can trade instead.
Finally the specific input for the feint into qi always involves a top heavy unblockable from qi when entering qi from a light attack. (not the unblockable heavy after kick) so just keep an eye out for whenever that's used.

Jiang jun: His side dodge heavy dodge mechanics are broken in the same way Tiandi's is. So deal with it the same way I told you to deal with Tiandi's if you're not capable of reacting to the soft feint itself. Just be careful because it does have armor. So your timing on hitting it has to be tighter compared to Tiandi. His forward dodge heavy soft feint mix up is entirely negated with a well timed late dodge. Nothing he does off of that can punish this either. It's just something you'll have to learn the timing on. His light chain finishers have more of a delay window than is normal for 500ms attacks. It's still completely reactable. It's just another thing you'll have to learn. GB's track sifu's stance well so learn to bait him into it if they use it often to dodge. Combo lights are also a decent response to over use of sifu because the mandatory time you have to sit in sifu's plus the recovery after makes it very hard to react to fast follow ups. So again. Just baiting it's use is a good tactic.

Nuxia: Her deflect is blocked automatically if she attacks into the same guard direction of a standard guard hero. Meaning she has to change the deflect to one of those two other directions. Making it at least some what predictable. Most heros can punish it by parrying or deflecting. It is only guaranteed on chain finishers/heavies/long recovery moves. So in this case i'd advise against letting a lot of raw heavies fly. Her trap mechanic is entirely negated by throwing a 500ms attack in it's direction. This is all you need to know on how to handle basic Nuxia's who spam traps often.