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View Full Version : Marching Fire rant - feel so let down



Real_Doll
10-20-2018, 08:46 AM
I do not enjoy this game anymore, I spent so long farming gear on my Nobushi to compliment a play style that I enjoyed: Loadout 1: Revenge based (for dominion) Loadout 2: Stamina Based (for duels)

On top of this I spent so many months just practicing and mastering my favorite hero, just player vs AI matches back to back, experimenting with different stats combinations etc.

Now gear stats have been replaced with these so called perks which are utterly useless to me and the game just isn't fun anymore. I'm being killed even before I can get the revenge meter full & I'm constantly out of stamina now, where as prior to marching fire I had held my ground vs the entire enemy team on some occasions.
I have already farmed the gear to have 2 perks active on my hero but it still doesn't feel right.
I've seen some people say that if someone had to rely on stats to make the hero effective that means the heroes are unbalanced. Not true, the stats just allowed players to pick a hero and create a play style for themselves. The stats only gave a minor boost towards a certain play style, in my experience the rest came down to skill, tactics, timing and the ability to outsmart your opponent.

Also I saw another post by Ubisoft stating that the players had asked for the change in armor, not once have I seen anyone making a post requesting armor stats to be changed. I've seen multiple posts regarding the drawbacks for some stats, but that made sense to me if not for the drawbacks then the hero would just be too OP, the drawbacks were a way of balancing that out.
In my opinion the perks could have come in as an armor & weapon set bonus while still keeping the stats. for eg. a 2 piece bonus and 3 piece bonus for having multiple armor pieces of the same set.

And what the hell is up with killing minions now? prior to marching fire it used to be fluid with a combination of weapon attacks, kicks & punches and felt awesome, now it's just stand there and randomly poke....

Ubisoft you have lost a faithful player, I put a lot of hours into this game, defended this game despite all it's flaws at launch, server issues etc. convinced my friends to get it even though they were super skeptic about it. I just feel like the only thing Ubisoft is good at is making great games with good potential and then ****ing it up down the line.
To sum it up the game just isn't fun anymore, it doesn't feel rewarding anymore, it just feels like a dumbed down tedious grind now.

Illyrian_King
10-20-2018, 10:34 AM
I have to disappoint you, but your second stamina loadout for Duells didn't come to action anyway, because gear stats are turned off in Duell.

You never had a stamina buff in 1vs1.

But beside this, this change was 1 of 3 things I didn't like about this patch.

2) is the new victory celebration screen, because the Dominion Cutscenes were way cooler.

3) is that the old Dominion minion kill animations are gone.


But there rest of Marching Fire is super cool.

Specialkha
10-20-2018, 11:11 AM
Haha stats gave a minor boost? Are you high?

A 180 gear hero were far superior in everything than a rep 0 hero.

Now, you get crushed because you are not carried by your stats anymore.

And we can start to play a new hero without facing full team of 180 geared hero.

Real_Doll
10-20-2018, 11:37 AM
Now, you get crushed because you are not carried by your stats anymore.

you're an idiot :rolleyes:
I've gone head to head against high rep players and won because I've either outsmarted them or luck was on my side. So I suggest you get good if you believe stats were everything.

After the Marching Fire hype dies down the game will be dead like it was a couple of months after it's launch. The devs did a good job reviving it again but they messed it up now.
Go look at all the recent steam reviews. That's going to be hitting mostly negative pretty soon too

https://steamcharts.com/app/304390

Lord_Cherubi
10-20-2018, 11:44 AM
I have to disappoint you, but your second stamina loadout for Duells didn't come to action anyway, because gear stats are turned off in Duell.

You never had a stamina buff in 1vs1.

But beside this, this change was 1 of 3 things I didn't like about this patch.

2) is the new victory celebration screen, because the Dominion Cutscenes were way cooler.

3) is that the old Dominion minion kill animations are gone.


But there rest of Marching Fire is super cool.

Here's my 2 cents:

1) Imo the perks are far more interesting and varied than the simple buff STAM/DMG/REVENGE builds

2) the cutscenes were awesome at first but after seeing them like a million times i got so fed up that i welcome the victory screen with open arms (alltho i gotta point out that some of the victory animations don't even play for full duration as the screen lasts for such a short time, at least it seems that way)

3) I truly miss tge old animations, one of the things that's always been praised highly but the truth is you can't have everything im afraid. People have been crying for tougher minions forever (and rightfully so) but how exactly would the one kill animations work now that the minions last 2-3 hits? :P

Illyrian_King
10-20-2018, 11:49 AM
Haha stats gave a minor boost? Are you high?

A 180 gear hero were far superior in everything than a rep 0 hero.

Now, you get crushed because you are not carried by your stats anymore.

And we can start to play a new hero without facing full team of 180 geared hero.


You are an idiot ;)

CandleInTheDark
10-20-2018, 01:36 PM
You are an idiot ;)

I don't know how often you levelled up new characters under the old system but as someone who switched platforms and as someone who reps up a large number of characters (intent on getting everyone to rep eight before going on a grind towards the rep cap with one) there were many times I took a grey geared character into tribute or dominion and got hit with an attack that by itself, between their high attack and my low defence, was 80 hp, this is before you think about revenge or stamina. It got to the point where until I was in teal armour I felt that I was hindering my team and only played dominion vs ai.

In the current setup I can take my wu lin right into breach and I have the same chance anyone else has whether I have found the perks I like or whether I am waiting on gear for a perk to drop, that is a far healthier state of play in what is supposed to be a skill based fighter pvp. Under the old system it felt like the gear was 90% of what made a fight likely to swing one way or the other and it should not be that way.

EvoX.
10-20-2018, 02:02 PM
Agreed with Specialkha and Candle.

Now I'm afraid you can't just turtle and get revenge every 5 blocks, nor can you have twice the stamina, nor can you hit for 60+ damage. Good riddance to that, so I suggest you rely more on your smarts and luck that you mentioned from now on, which is hardly a bad thing - having to use skill instead of leaning on big numbers.

Sweaty_Sock
10-20-2018, 02:15 PM
Agreed with Specialkha and Candle.

Now I'm afraid you can't just turtle and get revenge every 5 blocks, nor can you have twice the stamina, nor can you hit for 60+ damage. Good riddance to that, so I suggest you rely more on your smarts and luck that you mentioned from now on, which is hardly a bad thing - having to use skill instead of leaning on big numbers.

How about not assuming you are better at the game then people complaining? I'm annoyed because the system should have been fixed at launch, not years into it after you've been forced to spend steel/salvage/time grinding through to end up with a worthless set of perks (my warden has 1720 on a single perk), on top of which you were forced to delete all your gear due to a 60 item cap. Basically they took the time & effort and wiped their &ss with it. THATS why we are angry

Specialkha
10-20-2018, 02:32 PM
Did you never played some game where a new xpac launch and renders everything you did useless? Like seriously, did you never play some kind of Rpg or mmo?

EvoX.
10-20-2018, 02:38 PM
How about not assuming you are better at the game then people complaining? I'm annoyed because the system should have been fixed at launch, not years into it after you've been forced to spend steel/salvage/time grinding through to end up with a worthless set of perks (my warden has 1720 on a single perk), on top of which you were forced to delete all your gear due to a 60 item cap. Basically they took the time & effort and wiped their &ss with it. THATS why we are angry

Quote me where I said I was better than anyone? Don't put words in my mouth. And no, that's why you're angry. The first sentence of the OP literally says he enjoyed Revenge and Stamina Builds, builds that if you got to a certain point become a distasteful joke to anyone that didn't run them as well, and are a massive chunk of all the hate threads that this forum was filled throughout 2018. Yet you clearly agree that gear stats/the system should have been ''fixed '', only sooner. My post doesn't touch upon your reason for being upset, I don't have much to say on the wasted time grinding gear, but nowhere in the OP has it been made clear he thought stats were a bad thing for the game, like you do.

I mean seriously: ''...where as prior to marching fire I had held my ground vs the entire enemy team on some occasions.'' If anyone actually thinks stuff like this should be possible then they're part of the problem Ubisoft tried to root out. They and pros have said it before - as soon as you're facing more than one opponent, you should be at a clear disadvantage. Handling a 1v2 is one thing, handling an entire enemy team is idiotic. I've seen... such stupid scenarios that were possible due to gear stats being stupid high, that I'm convinced anything is better than them. A level playing field, a minor boost from gear, clear disadvantage when outnumbered: the way it should be.

Good riddance, once again.

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 02:41 PM
Did you never played some game where a new xpac launch and renders everything you did useless? Like seriously, did you never play some kind of Rpg or mmo?

What does that have to do with anything? Do you speak to the families of murder victims and ask them "haven't you ever heard of murderers before? what you so pissed about?". The fact that other publishers **** their customers over doesn't make it ok.

Specialkha
10-20-2018, 02:45 PM
They did not **** you up. YOu agreed their EULA (which is more or less the same for all publishers). Do not act so surprised. And they even announced a while ago what persk would be.
Yes, they are crap, but I still prefer them to gear stats.

Real_Doll
10-20-2018, 02:53 PM
Now I'm afraid you can't just turtle and get revenge every 5 blocks, nor can you have twice the stamina, nor can you hit for 60+ damage. Good riddance to that, so I suggest you rely more on your smarts and luck that you mentioned from now on, which is hardly a bad thing - having to use skill instead of leaning on big numbers.

I suggest you should stop fighting like a coward and ganging up on single heroes in turn feeding them revenge and loosing 4 v 1. Then you come here and whine about how someone who actually has the ability and patience to counter attacks from multiple opponents outsmarts you and beats you and your friends.
Also there were never any big numbers as you mention, they were small percentages. Hope you studied mathematics at school.

Real_Doll
10-20-2018, 02:56 PM
They did not **** you up. YOu agreed their EULA (which is more or less the same for all publishers). Do not act so surprised. And they even announced a while ago what persk would be.
Yes, they are crap, but I still prefer them to gear stats.

like the other dude I think you're one of those guys who don't fully comprehend the numbers that went into the stats, I bet in your head you assume it gave players a massive advantage or something. You probably lost a lot, and you blamed gear for it and now you're happy gear stats are gone and you think that's going to make the game balanced. Sound about right?

Sweaty_Sock
10-20-2018, 02:59 PM
Did you never played some game where a new xpac launch and renders everything you did useless? Like seriously, did you never play some kind of Rpg or mmo?

this isn't a subscription service game. I played this BECAUSE its not an MMO.

iadvisoryi
10-20-2018, 03:14 PM
Seeing so many people complain about their "precious gear" is upsetting. It shows all the casuals who have no idea how balance works, got carried every day by ganks and gear. I don't care if your 180 gear is useless now. I don't care if you spent time and money on gear. It's unfortunate for you that you can't play without it. Changing it to a perk system is 10x more balanced than gear ever has been. This whole game got more competitive when everyone and their mother weren't hitting for 80 dmg heavies because of gear. And the people who relied on their gear are now complaining and curious as to why they're losing so much. Because the people complaining didn't understand a true meta, they understand Dominion meta.

Be salty at my post, IDC, it's true, the game is more balanced and more competitive and if you are on PS4 and you are hurt by this update and you want help learning how to be good and play without it say something. Cuz it's absolutely ridiculous the amount of people crying about gear cuz they were getting carried by it.

THANK YOU UBISOFT FOR ACTUAL GAME BALANCE, NOW TIME TO WORK ON THE HERO'S

iadvisoryi
10-20-2018, 03:16 PM
like the other dude I think you're one of those guys who don't fully comprehend the numbers that went into the stats, I bet in your head you assume it gave players a massive advantage or something. You probably lost a lot, and you blamed gear for it and now you're happy gear stats are gone and you think that's going to make the game balanced. Sound about right?

It did give a massive advantage actually, hence why they changed it. Made learning new characters that you didn't have gear on yet, facing 120+ gear scores every match, made it unpleasant, unbalanced, and boring to grind something that you immediately have a disadvantage in.

iadvisoryi
10-20-2018, 03:22 PM
like the other dude I think you're one of those guys who don't fully comprehend the numbers that went into the stats, I bet in your head you assume it gave players a massive advantage or something. You probably lost a lot, and you blamed gear for it and now you're happy gear stats are gone and you think that's going to make the game balanced. Sound about right?

Also you have no right to say anything about anyone's win percentage or time played or experience because you are limited in all of those regions. You have just over a day's worth of play time, and main nobushi,which if you were experienced and played dual you would know she sucks right now all around as a character. Don't be disrespectful to others, even if they're being ignorant. Sorry that you lost your gear that was giving you a handicap. It's just facts, even if your the best player in the world, it IS an advantage. Perk system let's the character match ups and player skill decide fights instead of "ooh I played this character for 3 strait days and I get to win now against people with no gear"

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 03:24 PM
Seeing so many people complain about their "precious gear" is upsetting. It shows all the casuals who have no idea how balance works, got carried every day by ganks and gear. I don't care if your 180 gear is useless now. I don't care if you spent time and money on gear. It's unfortunate for you that you can't play without it. Changing it to a perk system is 10x more balanced than gear ever has been. This whole game got more competitive when everyone and their mother weren't hitting for 80 dmg heavies because of gear. And the people who relied on their gear are now complaining and curious as to why they're losing so much. Because the people complaining didn't understand a true meta, they understand Dominion meta.

Be salty at my post, IDC, it's true, the game is more balanced and more competitive and if you are on PS4 and you are hurt by this update and you want help learning how to be good and play without it say something. Cuz it's absolutely ridiculous the amount of people crying about gear cuz they were getting carried by it.

THANK YOU UBISOFT FOR ACTUAL GAME BALANCE, NOW TIME TO WORK ON THE HERO'S

You could also argue that those who oppose gear stats and celebrate their removal are just bad at the game and blame their every defeat on their opponents gear rather than their own lack of skill.

Sweaty_Sock
10-20-2018, 03:24 PM
Quote me where I said I was better than anyone?
Telling people to play 'with smarts' is implying a lack thereof...

light/unblockable gank spams are now worse than ever, so not sure what you think has become so amazing?

CandleInTheDark
10-20-2018, 03:41 PM
You could also argue that those who oppose gear stats and celebrate their removal are just bad at the game and blame their every defeat on their opponents gear rather than their own lack of skill.

Except one scenario has people who are able to hit for higher damage more often, recover from losing their (higher amount to begin with) stamina quicker and are able to go into revenge with less blocks or parries than people who they have a gear score advantage over and one scenario doesn't. In the gear score system every single marginal victory that someone with higher gear score had was down to that gear, the extra damage, defence or attack they could throw.

Sweaty_Sock
10-20-2018, 03:43 PM
Except one scenario has people who are able to hit for higher damage more often, recover from losing their (higher amount to begin with) stamina quicker and are able to go into revenge with less blocks or parries than people who they have a gear score advantage over and one scenario doesn't. In the gear score system every single marginal victory that someone with higher gear score had was down to that gear, the extra damage, defence or attack they could throw.

As opposed to now where im getting OOS trapped in 2v1, lasting 10 blocks and still not getting revenge... they didnt do anything to the feats, which TBH were where the most no-brainer things come from - orochi OOS you is now worse than ever. Traps, worse than ever,

CandleInTheDark
10-20-2018, 03:55 PM
As opposed to now where im getting OOS trapped in 2v1, lasting 10 blocks and still not getting revenge... they didnt do anything to the feats, which TBH were where the most no-brainer things come from - orochi OOS you is now worse than ever. Traps, worse than ever,

Devs did a fair bit to feats, such as only one of each trap type on the field, rochi' kiai affecting teammates and having to wait longer, could more be done? Yes. That still doesn't make 'I can win a skill based fighting game with my gear' right. As to certain other deficiencies such as stamina, they have said that if needed things like stamina and revenge will be easier to balance without breaking them now there aren't such wildly varying numbers in it and that they feel the current meta favours defence too much and that they want to work on that, so there are things they are looking at there also.

For Honor was marketed as a skill based fighting game around the art of battle system, advantages that make most of what decides a matchup being based on the gear have no place in that scenario, especially given they don't want to matchmake after character selection. Perks complement the art of battle system, gear outright overrode it.

iadvisoryi
10-20-2018, 04:09 PM
You could also argue that those who oppose gear stats and celebrate their removal are just bad at the game and blame their every defeat on their opponents gear rather than their own lack of skill.

Read what you just said. If we're in Dominion, your using your main so you have gear and I'm using a new character, and you beat me, and I blame the gear, but when gear is off, and I win, what was the problem me or the gear hm? Which was the variable? Gear was. Why would someone celebrate the removal of gear if they're trash? Because either way they won't preform good. That comes down to Player skill and not in the "gets carried by gear" category.

iadvisoryi
10-20-2018, 04:12 PM
Except one scenario has people who are able to hit for higher damage more often, recover from losing their (higher amount to begin with) stamina quicker and are able to go into revenge with less blocks or parries than people who they have a gear score advantage over and one scenario doesn't. In the gear score system every single marginal victory that someone with higher gear score had was down to that gear, the extra damage, defence or attack they could throw.

You put it in a better way than I did, I lack patience at this point, I'm probably coming off as disrespectful but I'm annoyed at the quantity of people don't understand this.

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 04:14 PM
Except one scenario has people who are able to hit for higher damage more often, recover from losing their (higher amount to begin with) stamina quicker and are able to go into revenge with less blocks or parries than people who they have a gear score advantage over and one scenario doesn't. In the gear score system every single marginal victory that someone with higher gear score had was down to that gear, the extra damage, defence or attack they could throw.

Yeah, that's true and in a fight where all other factors are equal, or thereabouts, that small edge will give you an advantage but claiming that the people who are pissed off with the sweeping changes are only mad because they suck is just bollocks and the argument I put forward is just as easily made.

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 04:16 PM
Read what you just said. If we're in Dominion, your using your main so you have gear and I'm using a new character, and you beat me, and I blame the gear, but when gear is off, and I win, what was the problem me or the gear hm? Which was the variable? Gear was. Why would someone celebrate the removal of gear if they're trash? Because either way they won't preform good. That comes down to Player skill and not in the "gets carried by gear" category.

Yeah but you're assuming that every time somebody with a higher gear score wins, it's always because of the gear score. That's just nonsense. What if we play and I have a gear score of 180 and you have a gear score of 0 and I win, then we play again and you have a gear score of 180 and I have a gear score of 0 and I win. is it the gear, hmm?

Sweaty_Sock
10-20-2018, 04:30 PM
Devs did a fair bit to feats, such as only one of each trap type on the field, rochi' kiai affecting teammates and having to wait longer, could more be done? Yes. That still doesn't make 'I can win a skill based fighting game with my gear' right. As to certain other deficiencies such as stamina, they have said that if needed things like stamina and revenge will be easier to balance without breaking them now there aren't such wildly varying numbers in it and that they feel the current meta favours defence too much and that they want to work on that, so there are things they are looking at there also.

For Honor was marketed as a skill based fighting game around the art of battle system, advantages that make most of what decides a matchup being based on the gear have no place in that scenario, especially given they don't want to matchmake after character selection. Perks complement the art of battle system, gear outright overrode it.

I hated gear so much at launch I stuck to duels for a very long time, thinking it would change. There was a resounding 'this is how its gonna be' attitude so I bit the bullet & In order to play dominion bought champion status for $$$ and ground the gear score up, then spend more steel to make the aesthetics good. I'm rep 148 now, with the item cap i've deleted so many items yet it counts for nothing in terms of perks available. I essentially have to start grinding again for loot now on my rep 60 character

There was no trade-in, buyback, or perkswap available. Its akin to them changing the skins into randomly bad aesthetics and releasing brand new, similar but slightly different skins for purchase

On top of this, they did a massive overhaul while releasing 4 new characters when they haven't had a single balanced season launch to date with only 2 characters...

iadvisoryi
10-20-2018, 04:42 PM
Yeah but you're assuming that every time somebody with a higher gear score wins, it's always because of the gear score. That's just nonsense. What if we play and I have a gear score of 180 and you have a gear score of 0 and I win, then we play again and you have a gear score of 180 and I have a gear score of 0 and I win. is it the gear, hmm?

You literally just said the same thing I said what are you talking about. You are 100% misinterpreting what I'm saying, I'm not saying it's a guaranteed loss, I'm saying it's a noticible advantage that created greater inbalance than necessary, hence why the perk system is so much better even if they're not all that interesting. if I'm a better player than you and I win without gear against you being at 180, that still doesn't take away from the fact that I'm still at a mechanical disadvantage.

iadvisoryi
10-20-2018, 04:48 PM
I hated gear so much at launch I stuck to duels for a very long time, thinking it would change. There was a resounding 'this is how its gonna be' attitude so I bit the bullet & In order to play dominion bought champion status for $$$ and ground the gear score up, then spend more steel to make the aesthetics good. I'm rep 148 now, with the item cap i've deleted so many items yet it counts for nothing in terms of perks available. I essentially have to start grinding again for loot now on my rep 60 character

There was no trade-in, buyback, or perkswap available. Its akin to them changing the skins into randomly bad aesthetics and releasing brand new, similar but slightly different skins for purchase

On top of this, they did a massive overhaul while releasing 4 new characters when they haven't had a single balanced season launch to date with only 2 characters...

The wulin are the most balanced faction hands down, they are strong but none of them broken, unbeatable, or too strong.

I understand the frustration of time and money being wasted, but if thats how you felt in the beginning, your reason for playing should always be to improve skill over gear.

There are necessary steps that need to be made to make the game more balanced and this was one of them, weather people like it or not, if they actually think about the state of the game and real balance, it HAS made it better. Just time for them to touch on the older hero's.

You can grind for gear if you want but the thing is with the perk system it doesn't make it absolutely necessary. But if you want to grind for optimal perks and gear than that is something to do, since you don't need to rep up a lot of characters lol

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 04:54 PM
You literally just said the same thing I said what are you talking about. You are 100% misinterpreting what I'm saying, I'm not saying it's a guaranteed loss, I'm saying it's a noticible advantage that created greater inbalance than necessary, hence why the perk system is so much better even if they're not all that interesting. if I'm a better player than you and I win without gear against you being at 180, that still doesn't take away from the fact that I'm still at a mechanical disadvantage.

It's a slight advantage. Single figure percentages for damage. Revenge builds were an issue for sure, I won't argue that, but if you think that hitting for 42 instead of 40 is a considerable advantage, well, we'll have to agree to disagree. Besides, this isn't just about any advantage that gear gives you. This is more about a sweeping change to a mechanic that people have invested considerable amounts of time and in many cases money into. It's also about the fact that what they've replaced it with is really lacklustre. The perks themselves are, for the most part, boring and uninspired. Run a bit faster on revive. 12% stamina reduction at renown level 4. Seriously? I couldn't be less excited about looting gear.

CandleInTheDark
10-20-2018, 05:16 PM
It's a slight advantage. Single figure percentages for damage. Revenge builds were an issue for sure, I won't argue that, but if you think that hitting for 42 instead of 40 is a considerable advantage, well, we'll have to agree to disagree. Besides, this isn't just about any advantage that gear gives you. This is more about a sweeping change to a mechanic that people have invested considerable amounts of time and in many cases money into. It's also about the fact that what they've replaced it with is really lacklustre. The perks themselves are, for the most part, boring and uninspired. Run a bit faster on revive. 12% stamina reduction at renown level 4. Seriously? I couldn't be less excited about looting gear.

Except it wasn't always 42 instead of 40, I have taken grey gear characters into dominion and been hit for 80 damage which I don't see on anyone's damage chart anywhere.

As for perks I guess it is a matter of taste, I have a character in each perk pool, I have my healer, my speed runners, my hard to kill when competing for zone characters, my capture zones quicker characters, I can play whichever loadout I need based on my team and will have different characters in those perk pools as I level them with different loadouts.

Sweaty_Sock
10-20-2018, 05:22 PM
As for perks I guess it is a matter of taste, I have a character in each perk pool, I have my healer, my speed runners, my hard to kill when competing for zone characters, my capture zones quicker characters, I can play whichever loadout I need based on my team and will have different characters in those perk pools as I level them with different loadouts.

Except its RNG based - I opened all 17 of my crates on my Warlord just now and didnt get anything worthwhile... also been searching for 14 minutes for a game... by far the longest i've ever waited

Edit: also you can't even filter by perks when trying to work out your build.. its a literal cluster f&^k

EDIT EDIT: the new faction still seems able to turtle into revenge in 1 v 1.

CandleInTheDark
10-20-2018, 05:25 PM
Except tis RNG what you get - I opened all 17 of my crates on my Warlord just now and didnt get anything worthwhile...

Yeah that is where I can see where people might have issues. I had six characters to get perks for, I had filled their inventories and deselected everything as I didn't want A,G on any of them, one of them I had my loadout with a single armour crate (needed a chest peice) and upgraded a total of four times, another I burned a bunch of scavenger crates and had to upgrade everything. I spent around 30,000 over six characters (34,500 if you count the scavenger crates I started with) with I would say a range of 2,000 to 10,000 for one character.

My intent with my next character is to have a loadout on the side that I add teal pieces with the perks I want as I get them through rep 7 and see how close I get to done before I hit the every gear is teal stage at rep 8 when I buy crates for the rest of my gear, it might be easier in that circumstance.

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 05:38 PM
Except it wasn't always 42 instead of 40, I have taken grey gear characters into dominion and been hit for 80 damage which I don't see on anyone's damage chart anywhere.

As for perks I guess it is a matter of taste, I have a character in each perk pool, I have my healer, my speed runners, my hard to kill when competing for zone characters, my capture zones quicker characters, I can play whichever loadout I need based on my team and will have different characters in those perk pools as I level them with different loadouts.

Probably Raiders comboed zone for base 60 + gear with moderate damage increase and high defence penetration against your low end gear, yeah I could believe that, but it's not like every attack is hitting you for 80 damage.

The perks are most definitely a polarising issue, hence the amount of disagreement we're seeing on these very forums.

Sweaty_Sock
10-20-2018, 05:40 PM
Of the 60 pieces I stored for my rep 60 warden, and the three full builds I had, there is literally nothing I want.

CandleInTheDark
10-20-2018, 05:54 PM
Probably Raiders comboed zone for base 60 + gear with moderate damage increase and high defence penetration against your low end gear, yeah I could believe that, but it's not like every attack is hitting you for 80 damage.

The perks are most definitely a polarising issue, hence the amount of disagreement we're seeing on these very forums.

It was a raider yeah

The forums makes it seem polarising, sure, but generally when there is a hot issue that a lot of people are against reddit is on fire with it, I am not on the steam forums but I haven't seen anywhere near the reaction anywhere else.

In any case as I said in another thread, the forum has a vast minority of the player base, there is nothing representative with those kind of numbers and people who predict how people feel about something for a living with all the resources that entails have been getting it wrong on much more serious issues the last three or four years.

Sweaty_Sock
10-20-2018, 06:05 PM
It was a raider yeah

The forums makes it seem polarising, sure, but generally when there is a hot issue that a lot of people are against reddit is on fire with it, I am not on the steam forums but I haven't seen anywhere near the reaction anywhere else.

In any case as I said in another thread, the forum has a vast minority of the player base, there is nothing representative with those kind of numbers and people who predict how people feel about something for a living with all the resources that entails have been getting it wrong on much more serious issues the last three or four years.

All i can go on is wait timers are significantly longer i've ever had and i've played since beta

EDIT: also remember most people on these forums are here for for honour, most reddit users are there for mjultiple reasons

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 06:16 PM
It was a raider yeah

The forums makes it seem polarising, sure, but generally when there is a hot issue that a lot of people are against reddit is on fire with it, I am not on the steam forums but I haven't seen anywhere near the reaction anywhere else.

In any case as I said in another thread, the forum has a vast minority of the player base, there is nothing representative with those kind of numbers and people who predict how people feel about something for a living with all the resources that entails have been getting it wrong on much more serious issues the last three or four years.

The issue I have with the perks system, or rather the main issue I have, is that with the old system I could equip for aesthetics and still get at least some kind of benefit. It might not be the build I particularly wanted, but it would give me some kind of benefit. With the new system, I have so many characters with so much high end gear that is now useless to me in terms of perks. I can eqiup my Warden with a full, matching Legendary set and get nothing as a result. I'm sorry but that's crap. If they tied the perks to the same gear type, everyone would be forced to wear full sets and lose unique appearance options, but people who like to build their gear into sets now have the following options.

1. Hope the gear you loot is both part of the set you want and has the perks you want. Not very likely at all.
2. Change the appearance of a piece of gear that has the perks you want to the set you want and upgrade it to activate the perks. Costs a considerable amount of steel and salvage.
3. Equip the sets you want for aesthetic purposes and get no benefit whatsoever from your high end gear.

Call me crazy but none of those options sounds particularly appealing to me.

Velentix
10-20-2018, 06:37 PM
I feel like some people think that the perk system is balanced. its not. there are very few worthwhile perks, and in the case of some characters like my valk, they all suck. so like dragon says I can either take option 3 or get the perks and play in a way I don't want to. this does fortunately have an easy fix, open up all perks to all characters and let players pick which perks they want, that way devs can see what perks are useless and replace them with newer hopefully better ones.

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 07:10 PM
Ideally what I would like them to do is this.

Perks cost a certain amount of points.
Each class of gear gives you a certain amount of points in a given perk with a limit to the number of active perks depending on the class.

Allow the players to distribute the points from each piece of gear to the perks that they want instead of arbitrarily assigning the values. This would allow players to decide which perks they would like while still adhering to the rules regarding the number of active perks based on class, with upgraded gear providing more points so they can continue to dip players wallets for steel packs.

Note: I don't condone premium currency in full price titles, but there is no way they would ever implement any system which reduced their opportunities to sell premium currency. That's just a sad reality.

iadvisoryi
10-20-2018, 07:28 PM
I feel like some people think that the perk system is balanced. its not. there are very few worthwhile perks, and in the case of some characters like my valk, they all suck. so like dragon says I can either take option 3 or get the perks and play in a way I don't want to. this does fortunately have an easy fix, open up all perks to all characters and let players pick which perks they want, that way devs can see what perks are useless and replace them with newer hopefully better ones.

I recently started maining and non stop playing tiandi, her perks suck too, do I care? No. Gear and perks aren't supposed to change the way you play. It is meant to add an extra element to gameplay, it is not supposed to carry your experience with the character, your vision on valk has been a facade. She's godlike without gear to be carried by

iadvisoryi
10-20-2018, 07:34 PM
Ideally what I would like them to do is this.

Perks cost a certain amount of points.
Each class of gear gives you a certain amount of points in a given perk with a limit to the number of active perks depending on the class.

Allow the players to distribute the points from each piece of gear to the perks that they want instead of arbitrarily assigning the values. This would allow players to decide which perks they would like while still adhering to the rules regarding the number of active perks based on class, with upgraded gear providing more points so they can continue to dip players wallets for steel packs.

Note: I don't condone premium currency in full price titles, but there is no way they would ever implement any system which reduced their opportunities to sell premium currency. That's just a sad reality.

I like this idea. It makes sense. But unfortunately I doubt ubisoft would make such a drastic change to their new system, especially so soon

CandleInTheDark
10-20-2018, 07:36 PM
I feel like some people think that the perk system is balanced. its not. there are very few worthwhile perks, and in the case of some characters like my valk, they all suck. so like dragon says I can either take option 3 or get the perks and play in a way I don't want to. this does fortunately have an easy fix, open up all perks to all characters and let players pick which perks they want, that way devs can see what perks are useless and replace them with newer hopefully better ones.

Those same perks are why Valk sees a lot of breach time when I am with my group, because having someone who can run between the ramparts, ram and support teammates is valuable, more so that I can get them to higher health. Unless you only play deathmatch, what you do is much more useful than how many people you kill. That aside, perks shouldn't be that huge a impact that they are considered as part of the balance in a fight, that was the problem with gear to begin with.

Knight_Raime
10-20-2018, 07:46 PM
Those same perks are why Valk sees a lot of breach time when I am with my group, because having someone who can run between the ramparts, ram and support teammates is valuable, more so that I can get them to higher health. Unless you only play deathmatch, what you do is much more useful than how many people you kill. That aside, perks shouldn't be that huge a impact that they are considered as part of the balance in a fight, that was the problem with gear to begin with.

it's sad that you have to repeat this so often.
I'm finding this situation a bit humorous to be honest.

People complained about people only slaying in dominion instead of going for objectives. Yet people only are valuing perks that directly help them kill.
Devs said the perks were not going to be hugely impactful because gear stats were too impactful. yet people seemed to have missed this.

I hope the devs stick with this system. It can be tweaked to be improved of course.

Velentix
10-20-2018, 08:00 PM
I recently started maining and non stop playing tiandi, her perks suck too, do I care? No. Gear and perks aren't supposed to change the way you play. It is meant to add an extra element to gameplay, it is not supposed to carry your experience with the character, your vision on valk has been a facade. She's godlike without gear to be carried by

I like you immediately attribute intent to what I was saying. Unsurprisingly you're wrong. Of course perks change the way you play, granted not as drastically as stats which in many situations is a good thing, but pretending a char with say a defense and offense perk isn't going to have an advantage over one stuck with essentially noncombat perks is farcical in nature. secondly I have a rep 22 valk, she is not even close to godlike, but she is in an ok place. as long as you can block somewhat consistently and dodge her sweep she isn't an insurmountable obstacle.


Those same perks are why Valk sees a lot of breach time when I am with my group, because having someone who can run between the ramparts, ram and support teammates is valuable, more so that I can get them to higher health. Unless you only play deathmatch, what you do is much more useful than how many people you kill. That aside, perks shouldn't be that huge a impact that they are considered as part of the balance in a fight, that was the problem with gear to begin with.

I understand where you're coming from on this one, but but what I said in response Iadvisory does apply. Sure she can be great for assisting or reviving, but if she needs to do that I guarantee you that the other team is after her, with offense or defense perks she has no access to, ergo unbalanced. On the other hand if she doesn't need to be reviving or is on a team with randoms who don't work terribly well together, I think she needs possibilities. I agree with you though that the assist perks have a place in the game, but I would like the freedom to keep an assist perk and also have a defense/offense perk that I find useful as well. In general I see no point in locking only a couple perks to each hero.

UbiInsulin
10-20-2018, 08:02 PM
I've been saying this a lot in threads about the Perk system but: please be good to one another. There is no need to flame, or to frame things in terms of attacks on supposed skill of other players.

MCC_goes_wild
10-20-2018, 08:13 PM
one question what is the perksystem about when im forced to play a fresh charackter with the 1st perk and arent able to set up a second one cause for that u need to grind a lot of stuff and most of all the 1st perks arent usefull at all especially as a beginner or fresh charackter. There is zero Balance in matchmaking so the noobs fight more exp. players you can see at the start who will win the match.
Thats no joke, its rly crap and frustrating on pc far more than on ps4!!!
And what benefits do i have if i got 600 220 180 in the 1st 3 perks? i wil only get the 600 perk and the rest of equipment is usefull like ****??? so the perk advantage is absolutly on the hand of high lvl charackters, theyve got the def one and the off one.

Velentix
10-20-2018, 08:18 PM
it's sad that you have to repeat this so often.
I'm finding this situation a bit humorous to be honest.

People complained about people only slaying in dominion instead of going for objectives. Yet people only are valuing perks that directly help them kill.
Devs said the perks were not going to be hugely impactful because gear stats were too impactful. yet people seemed to have missed this.

I hope the devs stick with this system. It can be tweaked to be improved of course.

I get what you mean but it seems like you're overlooking how you do anything to an objective. It's by killing. you need to keep a zone that is being contested? you need to kill the other player. I'm not saying all the assist perks are useless, I'm saying that combat is the main point of this game and affecting it with something like perks or stats without giving the same possibilities to all players is a mistake. I don't like the gankfest mentality in dominion as much as the next guy, but locking perks that, while not overly affecting the situation do provide some benefit is a mistake.

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 08:22 PM
Yet people only are valuing perks that directly help them kill.

Kill, or stay alive? There's little difference as I see it.

Brutal_DaDo
10-20-2018, 08:25 PM
All these complaints about gear stats make me think that a lot of people played this game mindlessly, now that all the revenge builds and attacks are gone people are freaking out, i can understand being upset with recicing crappy perks on the farmed gear before MF, the way i see it now is that with perks people need to chose well a hero based on the mode they play and how theyíre going to play, either support or going all out attacking, although some perks are not that good, in general i think itís good like this, maybe some perks could be changed but weíll see if the devs are going to introduce new perks with every new season. And to all those that said that they can wreck super high reps player despite having grey gear, this new system shouldnít be a problem right ?

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 08:29 PM
All these complaints about gear stats make me think that a lot of people played this game mindlessly, now that all the revenge builds and attacks are gone people are freaking out, i can understand being upset with recicing crappy perks on the farmed gear before MF, the way i see it now is that with perks people need to chose well a hero based on the mode they play and how they’re going to play, either support or going all out attacking, although some perks are not that good, in general i think it’s good like this, maybe some perks could be changed but we’ll see if the devs are going to introduce new perks with every new season. And to all those that said that they can wreck super high reps player despite having grey gear, this new system shouldn’t be a problem right ?

A lot of people are misunderstanding why people are bothered by the new system, yourself included. Anybody that's played this game for more than ten minutes knows that you can't just equip the best gear and mash the right trigger, the game just doesn't work like that, even with all the gear stats in the world. To suggest that's the case is to be disingenuous at best.

Real_Doll
10-20-2018, 08:39 PM
A lot of people are misunderstanding why people are bothered by the new system, yourself included. Anybody that's played this game for more than ten minutes knows that you can't just equip the best gear and mash the right trigger, the game just doesn't work like that, even with all the gear stats in the world. To suggest that's the case is to be disingenuous at best.

I think some people believe that gear stats gave players magical powers or something. It's pointless even trying to make them see sense.

If perks were the original thing and they were replaced with stats they would be fine with it. Because they attribute their lack of skill to the prior so they'd believe the new change would balance things out for them. Where as in reality the current change to the game just dumbed it down, there's no sense of reward, no sense of putting the effort in to play.

Okita_Soji..
10-20-2018, 09:17 PM
So I came to playing a few days ago to try out Breach and wow things are different, menus, graphics, gear, etc... I feel for all of you that played many heroes. I have only played 3 and once I figured out the perk system, which took some googling as the game doesn't help much, I was shocked at how bad it is. I have 3 load outs on my Kensei, 3 on Orochi, and 1 on Aramucha. I have spent over 40,000 credits and burned 30 crates to do 4 load outs to get the perks I want and the cosmetics for that gear. All that I had was junk and had terrible perks attached. It was exhausting and took a couple of hours. I still have to do Kensei yet, but don't want to.

With gear stats gone there is no variety anymore. Sure I had stamina gear, attack gear, blocking gear, reviving gear. All my load outs were for different modes and how I wanted to play. I liked trying gear and going to the training arena and testing them out. So with higher block damage I would block at 10 hp vs 6 hp or up an attack went from 33 to 36 hp or chains went from 17 to 19 hp. You could play with numbers to be just a little better than stock. Now everyone is stock and is kinda boring. Sure it's even but now looted gear is useless, it's cosmetic. I used keep reviving high and take my chances with bleeds, which helped on dominion as bringing a fallen ally back quick could turn things around when breaking but now we are all the same. It was my choice to be better at one thing and sacrifice another. They took that away.

The perks are kinda weak and I don't really feel their presence. Maybe that is intended but they seem to be meh. The fights are much slower now waiting for someone to attack because stamina it too precious. Parry takes too much stamina away so throwing a heavy is much more risky. It is leading my to hit with more lights than ever and only feinting heavies. I would like to see my executions.

Some things are better. I like the half health on revive. Also some of the new executions are great. I would like shorter ones since everything can knock you out of them now. Orochi's jumping beheading is quick and works well. We need more simpler ones like this so we can finish them. New armor is great along with faces. Anyway that's enough for now.

Possii002
10-21-2018, 12:02 AM
I think your right. to change anything t hat was gaining players and keeping the game alive is not a good choice. The new game modes and player styles are great addtions that on it's own is all they needed to do. For all of you people saying you played normal DOM matches vs a player with 180 gear sorry you cant. If your a new player your playing players with in a rank style unless your grouped up with a friend and he is a higher rep. I played 4 different hero's all up to different reps and the armor perks didn't do that much difference. It helped helped tweek play styles a little differently but didn't over power the player. If anything it balanced out players more then it does now. I style like the noboshi was always made to be more of a group style player and my gear setup was made for that style of play. Now taking away that balance of being able to get 5 or 6 jabs in to kill someone takes 10 -11 jabs but it lets that player hit me 4 times and kill me because the noboshi has no armor base built in to the stats behind the secen's. Expect many new tweeks and changes to heros now to re-balance the game that they just spent a full year trying to even out. poor choice in development style.

Real_Doll
10-21-2018, 08:09 AM
I think your right. to change anything t hat was gaining players and keeping the game alive is not a good choice. The new game modes and player styles are great addtions that on it's own is all they needed to do. For all of you people saying you played normal DOM matches vs a player with 180 gear sorry you cant. If your a new player your playing players with in a rank style unless your grouped up with a friend and he is a higher rep. I played 4 different hero's all up to different reps and the armor perks didn't do that much difference. It helped helped tweek play styles a little differently but didn't over power the player. If anything it balanced out players more then it does now. I style like the noboshi was always made to be more of a group style player and my gear setup was made for that style of play. Now taking away that balance of being able to get 5 or 6 jabs in to kill someone takes 10 -11 jabs but it lets that player hit me 4 times and kill me because the noboshi has no armor base built in to the stats behind the secen's. Expect many new tweeks and changes to heros now to re-balance the game that they just spent a full year trying to even out. poor choice in development style.

pretty soon it will be a small group of people just playing against each other round after round. Let's just hope that Ubisoft listens to the majority here and does something about this, that way even some of the older players who have left might even return.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
10-21-2018, 09:24 AM
With the exception of my revenge builds the new system doesn't affect my play style as a shugoki. I don't turtle but it's not like I can catch someone who is tapdancing backwards as a shugoki so I wait while they position and my HA goes back up...so other then being better at defending against ganks I don't think the perk system is that bad.

Blitzwarrior771
10-21-2018, 09:58 AM
We all know whatís gone but letís see whatís left . Bleeding and stamina drain and guard breaks we donít have answer for these anymore . I had only on my helmet 100% stamina recovery you could carry me all day on your shoulder I would recover in a seconds . Now they carry you on the shoulder put you down and just finish you off . I donít think people would use light attacks as much if guard breaks was fixed in the first place. I like the marching fire I like the siege mode minions objectives the drums are cool new faction very creative but as I said before the expansion they didnít fix what is broken in this game . Who wants to play against guys who parry everything all the time ?

Goldenbiy
10-21-2018, 01:27 PM
You guys are all so focused on the new perksystem....-.- shouldnt we think more about balancing the characters? This is the main problem in this game! If ubi would make better balancing than after we can think about the gear system. Its all about balanced characters to make a fighting game enjoyable! The community wants a competetive game so work on that! We dont play this game due to its gearsystem! Many people left the game because of op characters movesets and on top of that their old gear is useless now!

CandleInTheDark
10-21-2018, 03:45 PM
You guys are all so focused on the new perksystem....-.- shouldnt we think more about balancing the characters? This is the main problem in this game! If ubi would make better balancing than after we can think about the gear system. Its all about balanced characters to make a fighting game enjoyable! The community wants a competetive game so work on that! We dont play this game due to its gearsystem! Many people left the game because of op characters movesets and on top of that their old gear is useless now!

That is why the gear system change is important. Could some characters use help with stamina? Yeah they could, problem with the old system though was that they couldn't do that 1v1 because they would then be downright broken in 4v4. One of the biggest issues the devs have never been able to get around before is that they were trying to balance for both 1v1 and 4v4 and both ran under two different sets of rules. Now with each state being the same bar a few perks that don't affect the game as much as gear stats (and gear should never have had that big of an effect on a pvp skill based game) things like stamina and revenge should be easier to balance.

DefiledDragon
10-21-2018, 04:51 PM
That is why the gear system change is important. Could some characters use help with stamina? Yeah they could, problem with the old system though was that they couldn't do that 1v1 because they would then be downright broken in 4v4. One of the biggest issues the devs have never been able to get around before is that they were trying to balance for both 1v1 and 4v4 and both ran under two different sets of rules. Now with each state being the same bar a few perks that don't affect the game as much as gear stats (and gear should never have had that big of an effect on a pvp skill based game) things like stamina and revenge should be easier to balance.

I don't think they can balance for 4 v 4 because the situation is too dynamic. To make any kind of attempt to balance 4 v 4's they would have to enforce single pick, possibly single class pick and then balance class damage values and HP values so that both teams have a similar HP pool and do a similar amount of damage. Not to mention the fact that certain characters just have vastly superior kits to others, particularly when it comes to team fights. The genre of the game would change completely and it would be more akin to an RTS or a MOBA/MMO than a fighting game and 1 v 1's would be pretty much out the window.