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View Full Version : Nuxia's potential



Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 10:19 PM
So I will preface this by saying I don't own Marching fire so I haven't used her against other players. This entire perspective is coming from understanding how she works and how the game works. This is an educated guess. I'm not pretending that my perspective/opinion is correct. So please don't take it that way. But anyway I wanted to make this thread because I, like many of you, were rather disappointed in Nuxia. Her kit excluding traps is boring. And her deflect is situationally guaranteed. Her only saving grace being her 400ms in combo lights. But today i'm going to explain how my negative view for her went positive.

But before I can explain what changed my view I have to explain her traps. Both how they work and why they are considered bad. So what are her traps and how do they work? Well they're a soft feint from her heavy or zone. Which means they're at feint timing which is 400ms into the attack. There is no variance here like all other soft feints. Meaning they will always come out during that time. When she turns her heavy/zone into a trap they can't be blocked or parried. BUT the catch here is that the person has to be attempting to defend against the trap for it to land. This means trying to parry, block, deflect, or superior light her traps will result in you getting grabbed and taking damage.

Now why are her traps bad? This is because they're reactable. Which means you can do the things that would counter her traps on reaction to seeing it becoming a trap. What are those counters? simplified it's attacking or not having your guard in the direction of the trap. This can mean both switching your guard away or doing something like emoting or unlocking. Since in both cases you have no guard up.

How did the devs address this? They allowed her to combo off of it whiffing. This means after she whiffs the trap she can do a 400ms light in any direction. This essentially cut down on the many ways people could avoid her traps. As you'd eat follow up damage. However this didn't fix traps themselves. Let me explain. If you throw a buffered light out (meaning you qued the light before the whiff happened) the light will come after the trap after 600ms time has passed. As we all know 600ms lights are reactable. (the light itself isn't 600ms but the situation in which this light happens has 600ms of time going by.)

Naturally this means you'll want to delay your light after whiff instead of buffering it thus making it unreactable. HOWEVER. If you delay your light the opponent can still guard break you and you can't tech it. So what does this mean? Always responding with a guard break doesn't counter her traps completely. As a buffered light beats your GB attempt. And nuxia can't always delay a light or always buffer a light. Since the opponent can counter both. Essentially this means that both Nuxia and her opponent need to make reads.

But this doesn't mean her traps are good. Why? because 500ms lights. 500ms lights can be used on reaction to "stuff" her trap attempt regardless of wether she buffers a light or not. Nuxia as far as I know has no counter to deal with their react attacks. So now you think traps are bad yes? Now we get to talk about why my perspective has changed.

See it's simple. If the opponent chooses to only light on reaction to her traps and does nothing else the opponent is going to die. Why? because they will only be blocking her heavies. Which means she can follow up with 400ms unreactable lights. So you'll die to chip damage. And due to the nature of her traps you can't always attempt to parry them either. Her heavies due to how traps work are basically not parryable. And we already discussed why you can't just always block her heavies.

So if you don't already understand let me make this easier to get. Her traps by proxy are not bad because the opponent can't risk responding to her traps the same way everytime. At the same time Nuxia cannot spam traps or use her traps in a predictable fashion because all ways have decent counters. So now that i've "proven" traps are not actually bad lets look at her other issue.

Her deflect. it's a 40 damage light that can have it's direction changed. If you deflect a light the opponent can block/parry/deflect her follow up on read. (unless it's in the same direction then it's just blocked on standard guard heros.) However if done on heavy attacks it seems mostly guaranteed. This due to their longer recovery times. So it's usable in duels. But for 4's and brawls I believe that because the direction can be swapped it makes a good case to be used as a target swap attack. If you combine this with her trap mechanic and her heavy finishers mechanic (where landing on someone means she gets to throw them) essentially means she's not really a duelist. She's more of a gank/team fight assassin. (not saying she's a bad 1v1 character though. Just speaking to intent of design.)

So after all of this we can see that she has some potential in high tier play. Though if it's enough for people to like her there is yet to be seen. Thank you for reading.

UbiInsulin
10-19-2018, 11:15 PM
Thanks very much for the nuanced feedback. I'm eager to see what other players make of your take on the situation, so I'll be following along.

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 11:19 PM
Thanks very much for the nuanced feedback. I'm eager to see what other players make of your take on the situation, so I'll be following along.

I will freely admit that I fell into the herd mentality with her. That being said I'm not saying her deflect or her traps are 100% fine. The post was more or less me realizing what she might be capable of. So rather than sitting here in some mob asking for buffs i'm going to wait and see how things play out first. I myself still need to wait till the 30th to even be able to begin with them since I didn't have the money to get Marching fire.

PepsiBeastin
10-19-2018, 11:23 PM
I find her a bit annoying but my complaints are about her god awful weapon clangs and voice lines. Her voice is extremely irritating and her weapon hits literally sound like someone tearing paper into a microphone.

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 11:27 PM
I find her a bit annoying but my complaints are about her god awful weapon clangs and voice lines. Her voice is extremely irritating and her weapon hits literally sound like someone tearing paper into a microphone.

lol interesting comparisons.

UbiInsulin
10-19-2018, 11:27 PM
I will freely admit that I fell into the herd mentality with her. That being said I'm not saying her deflect or her traps are 100% fine. The post was more or less me realizing what she might be capable of. So rather than sitting here in some mob asking for buffs i'm going to wait and see how things play out first. I myself still need to wait till the 30th to even be able to begin with them since I didn't have the money to get Marching fire.

I have one follow-up: you describe her kit as boring, but there's some depth to her current "decision tree" as you describe it in your post. Her traps are even made better by other tools she has. So do you still think her kit needs more?

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 11:49 PM
I have one follow-up: you describe her kit as boring, but there's some depth to her current "decision tree" as you describe it in your post. Her traps are even made better by other tools she has. So do you still think her kit needs more?

When I say boring I mean there isn't anything about here that's flashy or interesting. Like with Jiang jun he's got sifu stance. special dodge that can avoid things. and his parry choke. flashy and mechanically interesting. Or to pull from the non wu-lin heros aramusha with his blade blockade options. Or orochi's storm rush/riptide attacks.

Nuxia's traps are mechanically interesting but don't look vary appealing. And her deflect is interesting because she can change direction with it. But it's just damage. Compared to zerk getting a throw or gladiator getting his bleed throw and wall pin with shield smack. I haven't really played her yet so maybe she might feel interesting. Like when centurion and shinobi came out everyone hopped on shinobi's train because he was very flashy and interesting. Where as centurion looked boring but a work horse. I ended up falling in love with centurion.

So Nuxia in this case is more like centurion. boring looking but potentially mechanically good.
Where as Shaolin is very flashy and fun looking. Like shinobi.

I don't think anything else really needs to be added to her kit. Mainly just making sure her tools are decent. But if any change were to be made i'd look at her deflect. Maybe letting her link directly into a trap along side being able to go for just damage. Or take it a step further and let her be able to go straight into her final heavy so she could potentially wall splat or ledge someone with it. and have all of these as options for her. So none of her deflect tools are guaranteed. But she has options. Which suits the rest of her kit.

Sorry for the longer reply ^^;

EDIT: to make this a bit easier to understand what i'm proposing is after a deflect Nuxia can:
~input a light and what ever direction she wants. Light gets superior light property so even if blocked she can continue her combo.
~input a heavy to do her final heavy in a combo for manipulation purposes. (heavy can be done in any direction and be turned into a trap
~Input a GB which automatically does a trap attack from a specific direction.

ytrecvbnm
10-20-2018, 02:28 PM
You might be judging too fast, I saw someone run wild with her yesterday in Breach. I could barely touch her.

Kargish1
10-20-2018, 02:51 PM
The trap mechanic is a catastrophy and should never have come to be in the first place.
It might be easy to deal with her now, since every Nuxia attempts trap attempts, but once someone masters her she'll be yet another 50/50 hero where you either eat the heavy or the trap.

Knight_Raime
10-20-2018, 07:39 PM
You might be judging too fast, I saw someone run wild with her yesterday in Breach. I could barely touch her.


Well I mean this thread post is basically admitting I jumped the gun. That being said it's still too early to have a solid view either way.


The trap mechanic is a catastrophy and should never have come to be in the first place.
It might be easy to deal with her now, since every Nuxia attempts trap attempts, but once someone masters her she'll be yet another 50/50 hero where you either eat the heavy or the trap.

The heavies are all 800ms and her zone is 1000ms there should be no reason you're being hit by either. Your statement would be more accurate if you said "eat the light or the trap" because if you block the heavy (which will be the most common thing) she can follow it up with a 400ms unreactable light.