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yfkutfui
10-19-2018, 04:19 AM
this "perk" thing has totally shot my guys charateristics to hell, im running OOS every 2-3 shots, this is beyond pathetic, thats with the stamina boost feat too?????

seriously its like a completely differant character, i dont recognise him anymore? he's hobbled, nefred by proxy, he doesnt do anything the way he used to and its sooooo god damn annoying!!!! and frustrating

i dont have any stanmina boost feat on my gear that ive alredy invested in and now am staring from scratch again?????

why Ubisfot? why do you do this to us? who comes up with this crap and thinks its a good idea? seriously im on my last llegs with this game, sort this crap out!!!!

Psycho-Bandit
10-19-2018, 04:30 AM
Totaly agree!

yfkutfui
10-19-2018, 05:40 AM
you know what, i think this might be it for me, im so choked at what they have done, its basicaly just wiped away everything ive done over the last two years, WTF are they thinking? i have wasted untold steel getting my guy just the way i wanted him and its all just been thrown out the ****ing window with this stupid *** "Perk" BS!

im ****ing fuming........

Archaelion
10-19-2018, 05:41 AM
You already got compensated for it with the 5 crates.

yfkutfui
10-19-2018, 05:57 AM
You already got compensated for it with the 5 crates.

r u ****ing serious?

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 06:29 AM
Is a bit interesting to me hearing all of these complaints. Makes me wonder how many people stepped into duels at all. Since hero's in 4 basically perform as they do in 1's now. I come from primarily playing duels and all I can say is 4's feel refreshing now. Rather than the crap fest it was with gear stats. if heros needed gear stats to be able to perform at an acceptable level then the heros themselves were flawed. And the answer is not going back to gear stats.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-19-2018, 06:54 AM
Duel is different. It is not the same to fight vs 1 guy in small environment with no other objective compared to trying fight off pack of light spamming assasins in 4v4. If players didn't care for gear stats, Dominion would have been dead long time ago.

MarshalMoriarty
10-19-2018, 07:00 AM
Raime, do you seriously not see the issue here? People put their money and time (and we're talking years) into making characters they were comfortable and happy with. And now Ubisoft presses the reset button and takes all that investment away.

Forever. Without consultation. Without compensation.

If you can't understand why people are angry, then you're just as ignorant as Ubisoft. Not to mention that 4v4 is far more stamina intensive and you are far more to being exhausted because of Feats etc. Simply saying its now just using Duel conditions is further ignorance.

However this change will be adapted to of course, and after the initial blow, players will settle down because the change has happened so we have no choice but to get on with it. It doesn't alter the fact that the Perk system is in itself awful and poorly implemented. But time marches on and we must march with it.

But forgiven is not forgotten. This has been a grave act of theft, betrayal and ill treatment to loyal customers. I may continue to play, but I'm done spending money on this game. I won't be buying MF, any later season passes, nothing. Once bitten is Twice Shy. Ubisoft have shown their true colors over this and its a shameful day indeed.

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 07:00 AM
Duel is different. It is not the same to fight vs 1 guy in small environment with no other objective compared to trying fight off pack of light spamming assasins in 4v4. If players didn't care for gear stats, Dominion would have been dead long time ago.

And that difference was half due to gear stats. I hopped into a few matches of breach and dominion after the update and I didn't struggle too much. I credit that to the fact that the current hero performance is the same as duels. So i'm used to their limitations. The latter half of your statement is just a guess. Gear stats wouldn't have been removed if it had overwhelmingly positive feelings about it from a majority of the community. The devs attempted to fix stats twice. And it didn't work.

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 07:06 AM
Raime, do you seriously not see the issue here? People put their money and time (and we're talking years) into making characters they were comfortable and happy with. And now Ubisoft presses the reset button and takes all that investment away.

Forever. Without consultation. Without compensation.

If you can't understand why people are angry, then you're just as ignorant as Ubisoft. Not to mention that 4v4 is far more stamina intensive and you are far more to being exhausted because of Feats etc. Simply saying its now just using Duel conditions is further ignorance. The change will be adapted to, and after the initial blow, players will settle down because the change has happened so we have no choice but to get on with it.

But forgiven is not forgotten. This has been a grave act of theft, betrayal and ill treatment to loyal customers. I may continue to play, but I'm done spending money on this game. I won't be buying MF, any later season passes, nothing. Once bitten is Twice Shy. Ubisoft have shown their true colors over this and its a shameful day indeed.

You know it would be great if you could go 1 whole post where you mention me and you don't attack/insult me. There really is no need for you to be hostile.

As far as what you've said goes i'll give you a quick example.

I play a game called warframe. Where without going into much detail (since I know you're one of the people who gets on my arse about how much I type) investment very much is a thing. Real money is spent. people put hours into perfecting a weapon or a warframe. And that stuff gets changed on the regular. It's something people have (for the most part) come to accept. Now warframe is an ever evolving free to play game.

For honor is not. So you could give the benefit of the doubt to WF easier. But the way I see for honor is different compared to others. To me it's a unique concept that hadn't been quite done before. And because of this a lot of flaws are bound to exist. So it's only natural that the game is going to change along the way. I'm not saying I don't understand why people are upset. I was merely noting how different the perspective is for me considering i'm used to how these heros are limited. Where as primary 4's players seem to not be.

I did note in a different thread that I felt they handled the compensation poorly. But I still think the removal of stats was the right way to go.

spyrochick88
10-19-2018, 07:08 AM
I stilll feel Ubisoft would have had more success breaking this down for us in levels. Like start with the change from gear stats to new "perks." Let us get used to a new layout. Then launch new characters and new game modes. I used to run For Honor every night- it was my one game to take the edge off after work. It's so completely foreign I will not be touching it again.

MarshalMoriarty
10-19-2018, 07:13 AM
Don't give us that, mate. You dismiss others and lash out at people on every thread you've ever posted. You earn the scorn you receive (the first time I even heard of these forums was from some guys in a Chat who warned me against coming here because of you - and if anything, they undersold your behavior).

I don't care how much you type. I do care about that Holier than Thou attitude you have. Instead of trying to hold court and attention seek all the time with all your 'I've been here so listen to me' and 'I'm leaving for real this time I swear' noise, try working on your empathy. Or at least try to sound more like a human being and less like an elitist prat.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-19-2018, 07:16 AM
So you are serving us same crap as Ubi? Come on, show me where is that majority of players who wanted stats removed?

It is a big fat lie and you know it. People were only complaining about revenge builds nothing more. By the way, they didn't fix revenge, strange isn't it?

Also, stats removal directly affects the pace of the game. If you played both versions, I know you did, don't tell me there is not already more stareing contest and turtiling then it used to be?

GS removal doesn't damage all heroes equally, and we both know which heroes and classes are winner and which ones are losers. Let's see how people accept new gameplay after new update hype train finally leaves .

And if I hear one more complaint about "turtle meta" after this update, if close to me, I would snap someone's neck. Only fools playing Heavies , LB and most OG heroes will refuse to turtle. Everyone else, go ahead, that's what this game needs.

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 07:19 AM
Don't give us that, mate. You dismiss others and lash out at people on every thread you've ever posted. You earn the scorn you receive (the first time I even heard of these forums was from some guys in a Chat who warned me against coming here because of you - and if anything, they undersold your behavior).

us? You mean you. Sure I get into scrapes with some others around here on occasion. But you're really the only one at this point who acts this hostile towards me.
And it doesn't matter what I may or may not have done. That doesn't make it okay for you to be an arse to others. That kind of logic is what holds our species back.
If I really am as bad as you and your supposed wistle blower claim to be then you should learn to be the bigger man in this situation. Not stuping to my supposed level.

Anyway. Unless you have an actual counter point to my response. Which was "yes I get why people are upset. I understand the lost of investment due to my backround with warframe. I find these perspectives interesting. and I feel they dropped the ball with compensation. But the removal of stats was the right way to go." Then i'll be done responding to you here.

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 07:25 AM
So you are serving us same crap as Ubi? Come on, show me where is that majority of players who wanted stats removed?

It is a big fat lie and you know it. People were only complaining about revenge builds nothing more. By the way, they didn't fix revenge, strange isn't it?

Also, stats removal directly affects the pace of the game. If you played both versions, I know you did, don't tell me there is not already more stareing contest and turtiling then it used to be?

GS removal doesn't damage all heroes equally, and we both know which heroes and classes are winner and which ones are losers. Let's see how people accept new gameplay after new update hype train finally leaves .

And if I hear one more complaint about "turtle meta" after this update, if close to me, I would snap someone's neck. Only fools playing Heavies , LB and most OG heroes will refuse to turtle. Everyone else, go ahead, that's what this game needs.

An unreasonable request. I don't have the resources to be able to pull up anything of value. All I can tell you is I saw plenty of people here not in favor of gear stats. And plenty of people on the competitive sub. The numbers don't matter either way. The devs attempted to address the issues of gear stats twice and it didn't work out both times. Actually I saw complaints about def pen as well.

And of course the removal doesn't fix revenge. it removed revenge builds. Which was a symptom. Not the root. Revenge was and still is a flawed mechanic. I can site my personal experiences pre and post stat removal. I notice a lot less revenge pops in a single engagment on one person than I used to see. pre removal it was common for me to see someone pop revenge an average of 2 to 3 times in extended ganks/team fights. Now I see at most two times.

Yes removing stats has shown that there are a handful of heros with stamina management problems. So you propose we bring stats back? No. I'd rather they address stamina as a whole. Stats were a bandaid fix to some heros. We need actual fixes.

MarshalMoriarty
10-19-2018, 07:27 AM
So in Warframe the developers had players spend money and years of time on a system, never once telling people that they could lose it all before implementing their 1st change did they?

No, they didn't. You just don't know what you're talking about. If people pay for something and invest their time working on something (given that said costs and needed time are both highly contentious issues and have been since Day 1) its nothing short of scandalous to take that all away. Grow up for god's sake. Would you stand for this in any other regard? If what you selected and paid for was suddenly arbitrarily replaced with something else?!


Your comment on the Gear to Perks was as empty as your attempts to claim any sort of moral high ground. But you want a counter because as ever you don't read what people say? Sure, why not?

Saying they 'dropped the ball with compensation' is like saying 'Tut tut' to someone who commits grand larceny. Its such a staggering amount they've taken that just saying 'they could have handled that better' and leaving it at that is as cowardly as it is insufficient. Unless they actually put it right, this will forever as a grostesque act of theft and betrayal.

As to 'Perks are the right way to go' this totally ignores the buff to assassins (who saw their bleeds increase in efficacy and for whom Stamina Management has never been an issue) whilst Heavies are nerfed again by now having their already limited offense severely compromised with stamina. And that's without getting into the terribly mismatched nature of the Perks, the majority of which are utterly worthless.

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 07:37 AM
So in Warframe the developers had players spend money and years of time on a system, never once telling people that they could lose it all before implementing their 1st change did they?

No, they didn't. You just don't know what you're talking about. If people pay for something and invest their time working on something (given that said costs and needed time are both highly contentious issues and have been since Day 1) its nothing short of scandalous to take that all away. Grow up for god's sake. Would you stand for this in any other regard? If what you selected and paid for was suddenly arbitrarily replaced with something else?!

No the warframe developers tell people when things are going to change. So does this games developers. They always tell us when they're going to change a hero. They told us ahead of time about the gear stats being removed. And they made several detailed informational pieces on how the new perk system will work. The only thing you can even claim to be mislead about here is that players were going to be compensated well for current gear. I don't have their exact wording on that. But it wouldn't matter anyway because you can prove that the compensation wasn't really close to value of what was being replaced. But again i'm not disputing how they handled compensation. I already agreed that was done poorly.

I believe I did hint at it. But i'll state it directly. I have spent money and time on one of my favorite warframes in the game. Only to have it be changed in such a way that made me not enjoy her anymore i'd say...a year or two down the line. Was I upset? yes. did I get over it? also yes. So that doesn't bother me anymore.

Also ironic that the person who continues to resort to attacking on the internet would tell me to grow up. but whatevs. I'm done responding to you here. Have a good day/night.

B1ack6uys
10-19-2018, 07:57 AM
Was excited for the new perk system only to find out my whole build was replaced with ďmovement speed increased after killĒ and I keep receiving the same perks so it makes it feel even more pointless. It took the fun out of progression. All my purple gear is suddenly worse then the common gear I receive. Just overall think this was a bad move. Iím not saying GS was the way to go but this seems like a downgrade to me. Me and all my friends and a good amount of randoms Iíve joined online feel the same as well.
I feel like most of the gear I have now is useless. And no. ď5 cratesĒ is not compensation for ALL of my characters. It just seems a lot less fun now :\

NHLGoldenKnight
10-19-2018, 08:13 AM
An unreasonable request. I don't have the resources to be able to pull up anything of value. All I can tell you is I saw plenty of people here not in favor of gear stats. And plenty of people on the competitive sub. The numbers don't matter either way. The devs attempted to address the issues of gear stats twice and it didn't work out both times. Actually I saw complaints about def pen as well.

And of course the removal doesn't fix revenge. it removed revenge builds. Which was a symptom. Not the root. Revenge was and still is a flawed mechanic. I can site my personal experiences pre and post stat removal. I notice a lot less revenge pops in a single engagment on one person than I used to see. pre removal it was common for me to see someone pop revenge an average of 2 to 3 times in extended ganks/team fights. Now I see at most two times.

Yes removing stats has shown that there are a handful of heros with stamina management problems. So you propose we bring stats back? No. I'd rather they address stamina as a whole. Stats were a bandaid fix to some heros. We need actual fixes.

Just look at the number of threads and complaints posted by different users and it is clear what players wanted. You guys had your "pro" Dominion, why no one was playing that?

Players were asking revenge removal in 1v1 for a year now as well as Shugo buff for months, did developers listen at all? Of course they didn't, it has to come from few lucky ones who have the developer ears and developers will do anything for them .

You can't be serious if you are suggesting that perk system is better than gear stats? From functional, logical and visual standpoint?

Gear stats was near perfect system except for few numbers that needed to be adjusted, attack stats and revenge. Everything else was contributing game to be better and more dynamic. On top of that it did make sense ( upgrade weapon for damage, armor for def etc) and it looked clean and well presented. It gave players something to look forward while looting and everyone could build hero according to their needs.

So according to devs, it was easier to completely scrap gear stats system after players dedicated hundreds of hours grinding and paying steel or real money, than it was to simply keep the system and adjust the numbers or remove few things and replace them with something similar?

If you can't see money grab here, on top of treating your customers as chumps, I don't know what to tell you. It is very convenient how whole system was scraped at the time where they expect thousands of new players from China who are known to be very competitive and ready to finance their victories with real money. So f. old players, you already have their money. Now sell them useless DLC, sell op heroes to Chinese and let both sides spend millions of steel and who knows how much real money just so they can come up with something else few months laters. Ubisoft sure have special bunch of people there. Their coding is not worth a penny but sales and marketing are exceptional. As I said few month back, there are nothing more than a used car salesmen. No offense to decent ones, I mean car sales people, not Ubisoft thugs.

CoyoteXStarrk
10-19-2018, 08:18 AM
Agree 100% OP. The perk system is completely useless and the fact the took away all our gear that we grinded our butts off for with no compensation is bullcrap.

mann61299
10-19-2018, 08:23 AM
Duel is different. It is not the same to fight vs 1 guy in small environment with no other objective compared to trying fight off pack of light spamming assasins in 4v4. If players didn't care for gear stats, Dominion would have been dead long time ago.

^This...Dominion was the most popular by far and we liked the gear stats, or at least MANY did. We got a big f-u, but here are 5 crates to get you started (like we care to start again...no ty)

B1ack6uys
10-19-2018, 08:24 AM
Just look at the number of threads and complaints posted by different users and it is clear what players wanted. You guys had your "pro" Dominion, why no one was playing that?

Players were asking revenge removal in 1v1 for a year now as well as Shugo buff for months, did developers listen at all? Of course they didn't, it has to come from few lucky ones who have the developer ears and developers will do anything for them .

You can't be serious if you are suggesting that perk system is better than gear stats? From functional, logical and visual standpoint?

Gear stats was near perfect system except for few numbers that needed to be adjusted, attack stats and revenge. Everything else was contributing game to be better and more dynamic. On top of that it did make sense ( upgrade weapon for damage, armor for def etc) and it looked clean and well presented. It gave players something to look forward while looting and everyone could build hero according to their needs.

So according to devs, it was easier to completely scrap gear stats system after players dedicated hundreds of hours grinding and paying steel or real money, than it was to simply keep the system and adjust the numbers or remove few things and replace them with something similar?

If you can't see money grab here, on top of treating your customers as chumps, I don't know what to tell you. It is very convenient how whole system was scraped at the time where they expect thousands of new players from China who are known to be very competitive and ready to finance their victories with real money. So f. old players, you already have their money. Now sell them useless DLC, sell op heroes to Chinese and let both sides spend millions of steel and who knows how much real money just so they can come up with something else few months laters. Ubisoft sure have special bunch of people there. Their coding is not worth a penny but sales and marketing are exceptional. As I said few month back, there are nothing more than a used car salesmen. No offense to decent ones, I mean car sales people, not Ubisoft thugs.

Exactly. I have played all day and a good 95% of the players all hated the system. The majority on here I have seen are against it and considering the rest of the player base probably donít get on the forums I canít see how the players behind it are saying weíre the minority. This perk system seems like it took less thought than the old GS. This seemed like a lazy fix to a problem. I canít see how they think replacing players stats with random perks was a good idea. It just seems like a good way to piss your player base off

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 08:26 AM
Just look at the number of threads and complaints posted by different users and it is clear what players wanted. You guys had your "pro" Dominion, why no one was playing that?

Players were asking revenge removal in 1v1 for a year now as well as Shugo buff for months, did developers listen at all? Of course they didn't, it has to come from few lucky ones who have the developer ears and developers will do anything for them .

You can't be serious if you are suggesting that perk system is better than gear stats? From functional, logical and visual standpoint?

Gear stats was near perfect system except for few numbers that needed to be adjusted, attack stats and revenge. Everything else was contributing game to be better and more dynamic. On top of that it did make sense ( upgrade weapon for damage, armor for def etc) and it looked clean and well presented. It gave players something to look forward while looting and everyone could build hero according to their needs.

So according to devs, it was easier to completely scrap gear stats system after players dedicated hundreds of hours grinding and paying steel or real money, than it was to simply keep the system and adjust the numbers or remove few things and replace them with something similar?

If you can't see money grab here, on top of treating your customers as chumps, I don't know what to tell you. It is very convenient how whole system was scraped at the time where they expect thousands of new players from China who are known to be very competitive and ready to finance their victories with real money. So f. old players, you already have their money. Now sell them useless DLC, sell op heroes to Chinese and let both sides spend millions of steel and who knows how much real money just so they can come up with something else few months laters. Ubisoft sure have special bunch of people there. Their coding is not worth a penny but sales and marketing are exceptional. As I said few month back, there are nothing more than a used car salesmen. No offense to decent ones, I mean car sales people, not Ubisoft thugs.

The amount of people complaining here (to which i've seen a total of 5? threads) doesn't equate to even a decent portion of the community. Even if everyone here felt the same way it would still be a minority. And I already tackled that in a different thread. People didn't go for ranked dominion because it was ranked dominion. Ranking system was horrible. and it was a competitive nature. Not everyone who wanted stats gone was a competitive player. The removal of stats for the main game mode makes sense because that is your main experience.

Revenge has been gone in 1v1 for awhile now. Goki is getting reworked as we speak. Implying the devs listen to a choice few people is just tinfoil hat nonsense. The competitive community isn't any happier with the game than the casual players. They're not doing a good job pleasing anyone.

And yes I am. For the simple fact that you guys have pointed out some heros are bad now without stats. Heros should be able to stand on their own without stats. Also with perks things are easier to understand. You either have the perk or you don't. and it will be easy for a player to understand what perk an opponent has. Where as prior to this you had no idea if the person was using a revenge build. or a build with stacked attack. and you had no way of knowing what those values meant. Now if I get killed in say 3 heavies by centurion I know it's because he just recently killed someone to proc that extra damage on first hit after kill. And because perks are hero specific it's even easier to understand.

The fact that you think simple numbers adjusting would have fixed the system only speaks to your lack of understanding on the issues of the gear stat system. They tried that with their first attempt at fixing stats. the second time around they scrapped some and moved around where stats were at. On top of reducing their values on the problem stats. Guess what? still didn't fix the issues.

Not even touching your last paragraph.

B1ack6uys
10-19-2018, 08:33 AM
The amount of people complaining here (to which i've seen a total of 5? threads) doesn't equate to even a decent portion of the community. Even if everyone here felt the same way it would still be a minority. And I already tackled that in a different thread. People didn't go for ranked dominion because it was ranked dominion. Ranking system was horrible. and it was a competitive nature. Not everyone who wanted stats gone was a competitive player. The removal of stats for the main game mode makes sense because that is your main experience.

Revenge has been gone in 1v1 for awhile now. Goki is getting reworked as we speak. Implying the devs listen to a choice few people is just tinfoil hat nonsense. The competitive community isn't any happier with the game than the casual players. They're not doing a good job pleasing anyone.

And yes I am. For the simple fact that you guys have pointed out some heros are bad now without stats. Heros should be able to stand on their own without stats. Also with perks things are easier to understand. You either have the perk or you don't. and it will be easy for a player to understand what perk an opponent has. Where as prior to this you had no idea if the person was using a revenge build. or a build with stacked attack. and you had no way of knowing what those values meant. Now if I get killed in say 3 heavies by centurion I know it's because he just recently killed someone to proc that extra damage on first hit after kill. And because perks are hero specific it's even easier to understand.

The fact that you think simple numbers adjusting would have fixed the system only speaks to your lack of understanding on the issues of the gear stat system. They tried that with their first attempt at fixing stats. the second time around they scrapped some and moved around where stats were at. On top of reducing their values on the problem stats. Guess what? still didn't fix the issues.

Not even touching your last paragraph.
Odd that you say weíre minority when I spent all day conversing with random players who all felt the same. Just because you feel a certain way doesnít mean itís the majority. The perk system feels like a downgrade. Most of the perks are useless or extremely situational. Feels arbitrary tbh.
Check the feedback forum. Thereís a thread with 13 pages of different members all agreeing to an extent

NHLGoldenKnight
10-19-2018, 08:34 AM
Not to mention how at least half of the perks is useless and how bad distributed they are among the heroes. Instead of every hero having attack, defense and assist perks at his disposal, we are stuck with what dev though is a good idea which by default makes it to be bad idea lol

For instance, Raider can be equipped with Endurance perk (however it's called) which in theory, can give him 12% stamina cost reducstion. On top of that he already has a feat that serves same function. Not sure how much it helps, but we are probably looking at 15% or more max stamina reduction.

On the other hand, Shugo or LB fall on their asses after 2 swings.

Also , Valk is for example, limited only to assist perks, some heroes only to defense perks. How that can be balanced when perks are forcing me to play in certain way just so I could use them effectively?

guest-Nez6tBu0
10-19-2018, 08:35 AM
there was this drama once at Blizzard forums I remember with Diablo 3 problematic start. Community were totally pissed and out of control, yet there were people holding blizzard side no matter how hard they screw it up, writing positive responses on negative topics/feedbacks at forums acting like regular players. Some guys founded that these ppl were actually paid workers from outsourcing company who specialize for these kind of things. They found this one guy, who had same nick on every other game forums with actually exactly same pattern just holding companies side in dozen games, and found even some proof with this guy on that company page and his nick name. I`m would be surprised if Knight_Raime considering how much time he spends here just look at his profile and amount of messages he write every day.

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 08:38 AM
Odd that you say we’re minority when I spent all day conversing with random players who all felt the same. Just because you feel a certain way doesn’t mean it’s the majority. The perk system feels like a downgrade. Most of the perks are useless or extremely situational. Feels arbitrary tbh.
Check the feedback forum. There’s a thread with 13 pages of different members all agreeing to an extent


and i've talked with plenty who hated the stats and like the new perk system personal experiences mean nothing for either of us.
and that's the point. They out right stated they were supposed to be less powerful than tier 2 feats and be less impactful as a whole.
Perks are a way for gear to have meaning beyond look without impacting the game in a massive way.


Not to mention how at least half of the perks is useless and how bad distributed they are among the heroes. Instead of every hero having attack, defense and assist perks at his disposal, we are stuck with what dev though is a good idea which by default makes it to be bad idea lol

For instance, Raider can be equipped with Endurance perk (however it's called) which in theory, can give him 12% stamina cost reducstion. On top of that he already has a feat that serves same function. Not sure how much it helps, but we are probably looking at 15% or more max stamina reduction.

On the other hand, Shugo or LB fall on their asses after 2 swings.

Also , Valk is for example, limited only to assist perks, some heroes only to defense perks. How that can be balanced when perks are forcing me to play in certain way just so I could use them effectively?

Which perks do you find useless. And the perk distrabution can be argued either way. You say some heros got gimped. I say this is the devs way of giving roles to the 4v4 modes. You can argue that while that's a good thing the way things currently are with perks it limits player choice. Which is a fair point that I have no counter argument for.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-19-2018, 08:38 AM
The amount of people complaining here (to which i've seen a total of 5? threads) doesn't equate to even a decent portion of the community. Even if everyone here felt the same way it would still be a minority. And I already tackled that in a different thread. People didn't go for ranked dominion because it was ranked dominion. Ranking system was horrible. and it was a competitive nature. Not everyone who wanted stats gone was a competitive player. The removal of stats for the main game mode makes sense because that is your main experience.

Revenge has been gone in 1v1 for awhile now. Goki is getting reworked as we speak. Implying the devs listen to a choice few people is just tinfoil hat nonsense. The competitive community isn't any happier with the game than the casual players. They're not doing a good job pleasing anyone.

And yes I am. For the simple fact that you guys have pointed out some heros are bad now without stats. Heros should be able to stand on their own without stats. Also with perks things are easier to understand. You either have the perk or you don't. and it will be easy for a player to understand what perk an opponent has. Where as prior to this you had no idea if the person was using a revenge build. or a build with stacked attack. and you had no way of knowing what those values meant. Now if I get killed in say 3 heavies by centurion I know it's because he just recently killed someone to proc that extra damage on first hit after kill. And because perks are hero specific it's even easier to understand.

The fact that you think simple numbers adjusting would have fixed the system only speaks to your lack of understanding on the issues of the gear stat system. They tried that with their first attempt at fixing stats. the second time around they scrapped some and moved around where stats were at. On top of reducing their values on the problem stats. Guess what? still didn't fix the issues.

Not even touching your last paragraph.

And what about the community? For me, community who is relevant is made out of players who actually play Dominion and who share their opinions. Otherwise, we can just keep guessing.
Go to Suggestions sub forum and there is pinned thread with more than 400 posts where approximately, 8 out of 10 players agree that gear stats should have stayed and players are feeling cheated. It is harder foryou to understand since you didn't lose anything. We did.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-19-2018, 08:41 AM
and i've talked with plenty who hated the stats and like the new perk system personal experiences mean nothing for either of us.
and that's the point. They out right stated they were supposed to be less powerful than tier 2 feats and be less impactful as a whole.
Perks are a way for gear to have meaning beyond look without impacting the game in a massive way.



Which perks do you find useless. And the perk distrabution can be argued either way. You say some heros got gimped. I say this is the devs way of giving roles to the 4v4 modes. You can argue that while that's a good thing the way things currently are with perks it limits player choice. Which is a fair point that I have no counter argument for.

I don't need devs to force me to play with my hero one way or another. I am supposed to stay in my zone and turtle just because devs don't know how to balance the game?

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 08:41 AM
there was this drama once at Blizzard forums I remember with Diablo 3 problematic start. Community were totally pissed and out of control, yet there were people holding blizzard side no matter how hard they screw it up, writing positive responses on negative topics/feedbacks at forums acting like regular players. Some guys founded that these ppl were actually paid workers from outsourcing company who specialize for these kind of things. They found this one guy, who had same nick on every other game forums with actually exactly same pattern just holding companies side in dozen games, and found even some proof with this guy on that company page and his nick name. I`m would be surprised if Knight_Raime considering how much time he spends here just look at his profile and amount of messages he write every day.

3 thousand ish responses over the course of 3 years isn't even outlandish. that equates out to like what. maybe 5 posts a day? (if we were trying to average that is.)
Funny though. I wish I was getting paid to spread propoganda. I could use the extra income. Sadly i'm just some loser who happens to enjoy the game a lot and is very passionate about it.
If writing my opinion off as a fanboy helps you sleep at night by all means go right ahead. Anyone who actually bothers to pay attention to my posts will know i've spoken out against the devs before. I even quit the game for a brief period of time.

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 08:44 AM
And what about the community? For me, community who is relevant is made out of players who actually play Dominion and who share their opinions. Otherwise, we can just keep guessing.
Go to Suggestions sub forum and there is pinned thread with more than 400 posts where approximately, 8 out of 10 players agree that gear stats should have stayed and players are feeling cheated. It is harder foryou to understand since you didn't lose anything. We did.


I don't need devs to force me to play with my hero one way or another. I am supposed to stay in my zone and turtle just because devs don't know how to balance the game?

I mean there is no real point in my continuing to respond to you if you're just going to continue to ignore anything I say. I specifically stated that I understand the feeling of loss here due to my backround with warframe. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I don't understand. People are allowed to have different opinions.

Your second reply didn't answer my question. Which was what perks do you find to be useless.

guest-Nez6tBu0
10-19-2018, 08:47 AM
3 thousand ish responses over the course of 3 years isn't even outlandish. that equates out to like what. maybe 5 posts a day? (if we were trying to average that is.)
Funny though. I wish I was getting paid to spread propoganda. I could use the extra income. Sadly i'm just some loser who happens to enjoy the game a lot and is very passionate about it.
If writing my opinion off as a fanboy helps you sleep at night by all means go right ahead. Anyone who actually bothers to pay attention to my posts will know i've spoken out against the devs before. I even quit the game for a brief period of time.

ok, fair enough, and how about this? just pay attention to the link path

https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/career/xbl/Knight%20Raime

B1ack6uys
10-19-2018, 08:48 AM
and i've talked with plenty who hated the stats and like the new perk system personal experiences mean nothing for either of us.
and that's the point. They out right stated they were supposed to be less powerful than tier 2 feats and be less impactful as a whole.
Perks are a way for gear to have meaning beyond look without impacting the game in a massive way.



Which perks do you find useless. And the perk distrabution can be argued either way. You say some heros got gimped. I say this is the devs way of giving roles to the 4v4 modes. You can argue that while that's a good thing the way things currently are with perks it limits player choice. Which is a fair point that I have no counter argument for.

They donít even fee helpful. People are angry about the things they got replaced with. If you canít understand that then I donít see any need to continue this discussion. For example on one of my characters ALL my gear was changed to ONE perk. (Not even joking I wish I was..) which was ďmovement speed increased 10% after a kill. Itís kind a slap in the face no?
Thatís exactly what Iím saying. The new system doesnít impact the game at all with the way they were distributed. I went in with positive thoughts and was extremely disappointed. The new system is even messier to start now. You pretty much have to grind a lot more for similar rewards. I feel like this was a step in the wrong direction. I really welcomed change but this was not the way.
Weíre extremely limited with the new perks. They took the revenge build sure and replaced it with their builds. You have to play how they want you to now. See what I mean by downgrade? Because as I stated most are situational.
The majority I talked to hated it. I have a hard time believing you seeing that youíre the only one defending this on the whole post. As I stated. 13 pages vs your 1 account
Iím not even trying to malicious I just want you to put yourself in their shoes dude. See why people are upset.

Charmzzz
10-19-2018, 08:54 AM
Knight_Raime is true on the fact that 4v4 Mode now feels more like Duels. People who complain about their Gear Stats being removed probably never played Duel. I did alot and I knew that the outcry would be massive, because people in 4v4 Modes never gave a f*ck about their Stamina management. Just attack endlessly until enemy dead or you proc Revenge... Took me 3-4 games to figure out to look at my Stamina bar more often.

Gear Stats were flawed from the beginning. I mean, come on, you could go full Attack + Revenge Attack, turtle up as e.g. Raider, proc Revenge and 2-hit everyone with a chained unblockable, unparryable Zone for 70+ Damage. That was bs and everyone who denies it probably played that way. Another "bad" Stat was Debuff Reduction. That Stat rendered a whole kind of Attacks useless (Bleed). Now, with the removal of the Stat, Bleed Attacks make sense again.

Yes, they need to tweak Stamina Numbers on some Heroes. But the Revenge Hell is finally gone and I appreciate that.

B1ack6uys
10-19-2018, 08:58 AM
Knight_Raime is true on the fact that 4v4 Mode now feels more like Duels. People who complain about their Gear Stats being removed probably never played Duel. I did alot and I knew that the outcry would be massive, because people in 4v4 Modes never gave a f*ck about their Stamina management. Just attack endlessly until enemy dead or you proc Revenge... Took me 3-4 games to figure out to look at my Stamina bar more often.

Gear Stats were flawed from the beginning. I mean, come on, you could go full Attack + Revenge Attack, turtle up as e.g. Raider, proc Revenge and 2-hit everyone with a chained unblockable, unparryable Zone for 70+ Damage. That was bs and everyone who denies it probably played that way. Another "bad" Stat was Debuff Reduction. That Stat rendered a whole kind of Attacks useless (Bleed). Now, with the removal of the Stat, Bleed Attacks make sense again.

Yes, they need to tweak Stamina Numbers on some Heroes. But the Revenge Hell is finally gone and I appreciate that.

Imo thatís a double edged blade. I liked how duel and the rest of the game modes felt different and gave variety. I would constantly switch between the two, but the fact is that 1v1 and 2v2ís donít play the same as 4v4ís so saying they play the same is kind of a leap imo

Specialkha
10-19-2018, 09:02 AM
So much wrong here.

First, only a minority uses forums and only those who do not like something will complain about it while the others will just enjoy it. Meaning that those complaining right now are the minority of the minority.
Second, gear stats have been asked to be removed from a very long time.
Third, read Ubisoft EULA, they can do what they want when they want with FH. They did not sell you the property of the game, just the right to play it.

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 09:04 AM
ok, fair enough, and how about this? just pay attention to the link path

https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/career/xbl/Knight%20Raime

Not sure what my overwatch account has to do with anything. Ive disagreed with dev choices on that game as well.

Siegfried-Z
10-19-2018, 09:05 AM
On my side i love the new perks system.

Gear stats was just really annoying with revenge build. Now Perks are just little buff and that's fine. (and i had 7 Char Gear 180).

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 09:07 AM
They donít even fee helpful. People are angry about the things they got replaced with. If you canít understand that then I donít see any need to continue this discussion. For example on one of my characters ALL my gear was changed to ONE perk. (Not even joking I wish I was..) which was ďmovement speed increased 10% after a kill. Itís kind a slap in the face no?
Thatís exactly what Iím saying. The new system doesnít impact the game at all with the way they were distributed. I went in with positive thoughts and was extremely disappointed. The new system is even messier to start now. You pretty much have to grind a lot more for similar rewards. I feel like this was a step in the wrong direction. I really welcomed change but this was not the way.
Weíre extremely limited with the new perks. They took the revenge build sure and replaced it with their builds. You have to play how they want you to now. See what I mean by downgrade? Because as I stated most are situational.
The majority I talked to hated it. I have a hard time believing you seeing that youíre the only one defending this on the whole post. As I stated. 13 pages vs your 1 account
Iím not even trying to malicious I just want you to put yourself in their shoes dude. See why people are upset.

My centurion gear primarily went to galestorm. And as i mentioned already i already understand why people feel upset. And i agreed that they did poor with compensation. I just prefer this system over the stat system.

B1ack6uys
10-19-2018, 09:07 AM
So much wrong here.

First, only a minority uses forums and only those who do not like something will complain about it while the others will just enjoy it. Meaning that those complaining right now are the minority of the minority.
Second, gear stats have been asked to be removed from a very long time.
Third, read Ubisoft EULA, they can do what they want when they want with FH. They did not sell you the property of the game, just the right to play it.

Eh. Im not fighting for GS, Iím just saying the perk system as is right now is shoddy. I was looking forward to the PS but the implementation was more to be desired. Definitely needs work if you ask me
Also the majority of players I spent all day and most of tonight with agree with me. There should be a poll option in game so we can just use that instead lol make things way easier for everyone including devs

B1ack6uys
10-19-2018, 09:08 AM
My centurion gear primarily went to galestorm. And as i mentioned already i already understand why people feel upset. And i agreed that they did poor with compensation. I just prefer this system over the stat system.

Fair enough. But why settle? We should be asking for reform then

Specialkha
10-19-2018, 09:16 AM
Eh. Im not fighting for GS, Iím just saying the perk system as is right now is shoddy. I was looking forward to the PS but the implementation was more to be desired. Definitely needs work if you ask me
Also the majority of players I spent all day and most of tonight with agree with me. There should be a poll option in game so we can just use that instead lol make things way easier for everyone including devs

I do agree that the perks are garbage, BUT they are far better than stats gear.

THEskarth
10-19-2018, 09:26 AM
I think the new perk system is not as bad as it is described here. I think it's really good! In my opinion, the new system is better for the 4on4 balance: Stats on the gear no longer take such a high impact on chars.

In this sense: Perks rock!

SpaceJim12
10-19-2018, 09:50 AM
I don't have a chance to play yet, but I checked my Warden and overall perks right after update. And I got two things to say.

1. First of all, I really like this system. Gear stats were a cancer of this game, if you ask me. All this infinite stamina and revenge break this game day by day. Now you have perks. And as far as I see, it's a little buff, that will affect your game, but not much. So some people could totally don't care about perks and choose gear for visuals (as it should be since day 1 imo). If you need your gear stats back and you can't play without it...well...sorry, but you just not so good in this game. Some people think, that gear stats do nothing. Well, with no meta build, yes. But with right stats it's became nonsense. I leveled almost half of the roster to rep 8. And I always see how advantage grows from rep1 to rep 8. On my conq, for example, I could stood in revenge almost forever.
2. Some people upset cause of time and steel they spent for heroes. Well, I made so much stupid investments during this 1.5 year of the game. Execution for characters I don't play now, effects I don't use. And still I have enough steel to buy and boost my main Warden. So, if you people spend your steel only for the main character, you'll probably should have 100-200k steel right now! And I think it's enough to start over again.

As for progression wipe, guys. This is how game as service works. In Destiny 2, for exampe, with Forsaken (this year big DLC) devs compleatly wipe all your progression of year one. Armor became useless, guns became useless. So everyone starts from scratch and collect new gear again.

Buggy.Blaster
10-19-2018, 10:02 AM
If your skilled enough u won't really need to worry about what your lost gear is. just watch your stamina bar. the gear didn't do much anyway and were all on even playing field. quitting over this is pretty drama queen y'all. if u actually paid real money for steel to get one percent better stats on your max legendary gear then i kinda don't feel bad for your stupidity.. sorry :/ but maxing the stats wasn't much of an improvement from just ranking it a few levels as long as u got the stats u wanted...which was free if u just play a little while.

Morpheus256
10-19-2018, 10:09 AM
Perks are less impactful than level 1 feats (or at least they are supposed to be) and that's great. I didn't even bother trying to get higher tier perks. Just get some good looking gear and play until you get the perks you want. You don't need perks at all to have even match.

Gear stats were obviously flawed - more stamina, more damage, faster and stronger revenge... it was ridiculous how fast people could get revenge over and over again and you'd almost never run out of stamina.

Ubi-Jimothy
10-19-2018, 11:49 AM
Hello everyone,

Thanks for all the feedback on the system so far! Just as a reminder though, this is a brand new system, and the current iteration may not be the final one. We're constantly looking into ways to improve and refine our game systems, and Perks is no exception.

Sweaty_Sock
10-19-2018, 12:17 PM
Hello everyone,

Thanks for all the feedback on the system so far! Just as a reminder though, this is a brand new system, and the current iteration may not be the final one. We're constantly looking into ways to improve and refine our game systems, and Perks is no exception.

Thankyou for using your paying consumer base as your lab rats rather than you know... play testers.

bhitrock
10-19-2018, 01:49 PM
Thankyou for using your paying consumer base as your lab rats rather than you know... play testers.
Man, in any game when the devs add something this impactful they always put it out, see how it works and then tweak it to get the best out of it. Also, I don't know if play testers would work on this, because they want the opinion of all the community, not just a bunch of (even if competent) people.

Soldier_of_Dawn
10-19-2018, 02:17 PM
The stamina may be fine in duels since you're fighting only one opponent but I don't think it is balanced for team battles. This is mainly because you're frequently facing more that one opponent so the pace will be a lot quicker and you'll need the stamina to keep up. Being out-of-stamina while being ganked doesn't help matters either and revenge doesn't always come through. With the stamina as it is the pace will slow down and the combat won't be as engaging as it could be and has been previously. I don't recall anyone complaining about players having too much stamina, and lower stamina doesn't stop deathballs either. I predict many players will focus on stamina perks to help compensate for the change; I know I will.

Specialkha
10-19-2018, 02:28 PM
If you get ganked, someone else is getting as well by your team. Dominion or Breach is a team mode after all. You should not always prevail in all situtations.

Soldier_of_Dawn
10-19-2018, 03:06 PM
If you get ganked, someone else is getting as well by your team. Dominion or Breach is a team mode after all. You should not always prevail in all situtations.

It's not about prevailing in all situations. Less stamina makes death-balls worse which is something people have been complaining about for a long time and the developers have been trying to tackle the issue for quite a while now. I think the stamina issue has taken things back a few steps regarding that. In general, less stamina dictates a slower pace which is not as fun for many. I'm pretty sure the complaints regarding gear stats were mainly about high damage and the revenge builds, and not excessive stamina.

Roseguard_Cpt
10-19-2018, 03:18 PM
Less Stamina makes deathballs worse, yes. But not worse for the person being ganked. With enemies having less damage and less stamina it's harder to spam you to death. Call me old fashioned but I prefer to parry when I'm in a Deathball rather than sling attacks at them. I like a slower match as opposed to the new 400ms light trend. Maybe a Berserker can't go on a crazy 1v4 for their montage as easy, but that's a good thing in my opinion.

Soldier_of_Dawn
10-19-2018, 03:49 PM
Less Stamina makes deathballs worse, yes. But not worse for the person being ganked. With enemies having less damage and less stamina it's harder to spam you to death.

That's not entirely true as that only applies to ganks that involve thoughtless spamming. Ganks that apply coordinated attacks don't suffer from the stamina issue as much, at least, from my experience. Thoughtless spamming gets you parried and gives your opponent revenge more easily so you're forced to time your attack and you conserve stamina as a result.


Call me old fashioned but I prefer to parry when I'm in a Deathball rather than sling attacks at them.

Who doesn't do this? That's how you build your revenge before counter-attacking. Remember, 1v1 moments can quickly turn into ganks and you can be caught out of stamina or close to it. Also, waiting for your opponents to attack doesn't always work since many players know how to open their opponents.


I like a slower match as opposed to the new 400ms light trend.

Very few enjoy light spam or delayed light attacks as they tend to be unreactable. We can agree on that. The quicker pace I'm on about is the overall flow of combat in general. I like my fights intense.


Maybe a Berserker can't go on a crazy 1v4 for their montage as easy, but that's a good thing in my opinion.

Maybe but if you parry them that would slow them down a lot. A headbutt or Demon's Embrace from Shugoki shuts them down as well. However, their revenge is normally when their montages kick in and, like you, they earn that from parrying before swinging. Again, coordinated ganking rather than spammed attacks works better against them.

yfkutfui
10-19-2018, 04:06 PM
did gear stats need looking at? sure, especially "revenge builds" i think that was the one that was getting abused and the one people were pissed about, especially by Zerkers in conjunction with their revenge gain feat,

and im not opposed to UBI trying to improve the game but here's my situation in Black and white, the reason why im so upset in a nutshell, 2 days ago i had a guy that worked for me, a guy that i had crafted to the way i wanted, he's now gone, completely gone, not slightly changed, he's gone!, i don't know who this new guy is, hes not mine, he might look the same, have the same move-set but he's crap, total garbage ,he runs OOS after every 2-3 shots, he's unusable to me and my fighting style, and yes i don't play duels, i don't like duels exactly because there boring and slow, i like team modes, if the plan is to make team mode duel mode x 4 then i'm out, done

i feel cheated, robbed, if your one of these guys that are not affected by this then lucky you but if your whole character is completely different how can you not be upset? i want to have the same fun as i was having not spend the whole game micro managing my stamina, i don't have the frickin energy to start all over again with this?, its a BS cheap move by UBI as far as im concerned and if it doesn't change for the better pretty quickly then i pretty sure i will l be done, like i say i just don't have the energy for this anymore, these constantly shifting Goal posts are not fair,

SpaceJim12
10-19-2018, 04:47 PM
and im not opposed to UBI trying to improve the game but here's my situation in Black and white, the reason why im so upset in a nutshell, 2 days ago i had a guy that worked for me, a guy that i had crafted to the way i wanted, he's now gone, completely gone, not slightly changed, he's gone!, i don't know who this new guy is, hes not mine, he might look the same, have the same move-set but he's crap, total garbage ,he runs OOS after every 2-3 shots, he's unusable to me and my fighting style, and yes i don't play duels, i don't like duels exactly because there boring and slow, i like team modes, if the plan is to make team mode duel mode x 4 then i'm out, done

Well, I think the only mistake Ubi did in first place is added gear stats at all.
No competitive multiplayer games I ever saw let someone have obvious advantages against the others. Gear stats were a stupid thing to forced people spend steel for upgrades and xp boosters.
So even if someone think it is wrong now, no it's not. The overall system were wrong for the past 1.5 year.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-19-2018, 05:02 PM
Well, I think the only mistake Ubi did in first place is added gear stats at all.
No competitive multiplayer games I ever saw let someone have obvious advantages against the others. Gear stats were a stupid thing to forced people spend steel for upgrades and xp boosters.
So even if someone think it is wrong now, no it's not. The overall system were wrong for the past 1.5 year.

I disagree. Guys who didn't want gear stats had all other modes at your disposal, 1v1, 2v2 and 4v4 including Dominion. They could have increase rewards for Realistic dominion and leave other Dominion for casual player like majority of us are. Between job and family, many don't have time to learn game all over again every few months.

Also, this change doesn't affect everyone equally. Generally you will see less complaints from those playing mostly assasins, Kensei, maybe Raider or Centurion. Other not that lucky have much more issues to deal with and are forced to play much more defensively then they were used to during all this time.

It is one of the worst examples of greed , dishonesty and lack of respect towards casual player base in the history of video gaming .

DefiledDragon
10-19-2018, 05:59 PM
Well, I think the only mistake Ubi did in first place is added gear stats at all.
No competitive multiplayer games I ever saw let someone have obvious advantages against the others. Gear stats were a stupid thing to forced people spend steel for upgrades and xp boosters.
So even if someone think it is wrong now, no it's not. The overall system were wrong for the past 1.5 year.

What makes you think that For Honor is a competitive multiplayer game? Point me to the leagues.

AnErrantKnight
10-19-2018, 06:09 PM
The problem is that the new feats donít help eliminate the weaknesses of your character or work off their strong points. Yes the old system was bad but this forcing everyone to restart is worse

wolfman25br
10-19-2018, 07:19 PM
I loved the changes made.
The revenge build were anoyng and detracking from the experience.
Idont mind, or feel robed by "investiment" ins steel. This is a skill game, no equip should be so damn important.
I wouldnt mind if they remove equipament of all the status effects, leave them to cosmetic purpose only.
Anyway, till now none of ther perks are game breaking.
So congrats UBI! Keep it up.

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 08:26 PM
The stamina may be fine in duels since you're fighting only one opponent but I don't think it is balanced for team battles. This is mainly because you're frequently facing more that one opponent so the pace will be a lot quicker and you'll need the stamina to keep up. Being out-of-stamina while being ganked doesn't help matters either and revenge doesn't always come through. With the stamina as it is the pace will slow down and the combat won't be as engaging as it could be and has been previously. I don't recall anyone complaining about players having too much stamina, and lower stamina doesn't stop deathballs either. I predict many players will focus on stamina perks to help compensate for the change; I know I will.

Actually one of the primary complaints i've seen through out the entirety of for honor was how 4v4 was nothing but a spam fest. No stamina gear means people can't spam and actually have to pay attention to their stamina bar. (this is also been reduced due to no revenge gear.)

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 08:34 PM
What makes you think that For Honor is a competitive multiplayer game? Point me to the leagues.

Probably the fact that the devs have been making an active effort in that direction for several months. And the fact that tournaments have been and still are being held for the game.
fighting games are naturally competitive. Even in incredibly simple ones like smash brothers. It's not one way or the other either. You can have a game that has room for competitive play but also can be played at a casual level.

For honor at launch and now has never supported a casual base or a competitive nature well. And it's going to continue to struggle like this till the devs work the kinks out.

yfkutfui
10-19-2018, 10:57 PM
who but a fool will ever buy steel again?

i learned my lesson the hard way, not a cent more will i spend ever.

SangLong524
10-19-2018, 11:55 PM
When i just stated, i was awarded a bunch of steel just like all of you. I didnt do my research and had no idea the importance of steel and how stingy ubi could be, i spent them all on upgrading grey gears!!! And buy crates at low levels!!! I still want to slap myself in face whenever i think of it.
Truthfully, i feel for you. I havent upgraded ever again ever since they first changed the gears system. Cant say i am surprised in the least this happen. I cant invest my faith in a company that toys with customers’ money. I only buy executions, masks and outfits i like.
Perks, well, i havent seen anyone use them to great effect. I hardly notice them active at all. I wont be upgrading them anytime soon, or ever.
These changes are good, mind you. It would have been so much more welcomed if steel is not purchaseable by real money. It isnt right when these changes vaporize people’s serious investment. But i suppose ubisoft shoot themselves in the foot in the beginning and there is no other choice. Tough decision, i take it.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-20-2018, 12:18 AM
Actually one of the primary complaints i've seen through out the entirety of for honor was how 4v4 was nothing but a spam fest. No stamina gear means people can't spam and actually have to pay attention to their stamina bar. (this is also been reduced due to no revenge gear.)

Spam fest was referring to how light attacks became more viable option since they are getting too fast, not for stamina in general. By taking away stamina management from most heroes, only big boys are getting punished.

Best way to describe it is imagine you have to get into a gunfight and you have 10 round magazine in your pistol. Your opponent has 20 rounds. Now you are both cut by half and you have a 5 rounds but he has a 10. Anyone I know how is making living by carrying a gun would always prefer first option, not the second one.

Knight_Raime
10-20-2018, 12:21 AM
Spam fest was referring to how light attacks became more viable option since they are getting too fast, not for stamina in general. By taking away stamina management from most heroes, only big boys are getting punished.

Best way to describe it is imagine you have to get into a gunfight and you have 10 round magazine in your pistol. Your opponent has 20 rounds. Now you are both cut by half and you have a 5 rounds but he has a 10. Anyone I know how is making living by carrying a gun would always prefer first option, not the second one.

You can claim what you think it meant all you want. Stamina management plays a part in how often something can be used. Charmzzz already commented here and he's very versed in 4's. He specifically pointed out that people would spam their attacks and not worry about their stamina bar because stamina gear existed. What you are referring to is "light spam" I was referring to the spam of moves in general. Different things.

Knight_Raime
10-20-2018, 12:22 AM
Knight_Raime is true on the fact that 4v4 Mode now feels more like Duels. People who complain about their Gear Stats being removed probably never played Duel. I did alot and I knew that the outcry would be massive, because people in 4v4 Modes never gave a f*ck about their Stamina management. Just attack endlessly until enemy dead or you proc Revenge... Took me 3-4 games to figure out to look at my Stamina bar more often.

Gear Stats were flawed from the beginning. I mean, come on, you could go full Attack + Revenge Attack, turtle up as e.g. Raider, proc Revenge and 2-hit everyone with a chained unblockable, unparryable Zone for 70+ Damage. That was bs and everyone who denies it probably played that way. Another "bad" Stat was Debuff Reduction. That Stat rendered a whole kind of Attacks useless (Bleed). Now, with the removal of the Stat, Bleed Attacks make sense again.

Yes, they need to tweak Stamina Numbers on some Heroes. But the Revenge Hell is finally gone and I appreciate that.

Thank you!

NHLGoldenKnight
10-20-2018, 12:29 AM
You can claim what you think it meant all you want. Stamina management plays a part in how often something can be used. Charmzzz already commented here and he's very versed in 4's. He specifically pointed out that people would spam their attacks and not worry about their stamina bar because stamina gear existed. What you are referring to is "light spam" I was referring to the spam of moves in general. Different things.

Of course it does. That is why heavy heroes got punished the worst. I don't care if someone has twice as much stamina as long as (as a Heavy) I have enough to apply the pressure and pull off my moves. But I don't, even more so when faces vs multiple assasins.

With all due respect to Charmzzz, I have more than 4000 matches in Dominion and I can form my own opinion.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-20-2018, 12:35 AM
Thank you!

Before you thank him, read opening statement. Is we wanted to play something that feels like Duel, we would. But we didn't.

You are ignoring the fact that hard core guys like you already had 1v1, 2v2 and 4v4 modes without gear stats. Guys like me played mod we like, with gear stats. So it wasn't you who was cheated out of hundreds of play hours, and hundreds of thousands of steel or some real money as well. It isn't you who has to relearn the way you play every of your heroes once again, spending extra hours and hours taken away from your regular life.

Knight_Raime
10-20-2018, 01:21 AM
Of course it does. That is why heavy heroes got punished the worst. I don't care if someone has twice as much stamina as long as (as a Heavy) I have enough to apply the pressure and pull off my moves. But I don't, even more so when faces vs multiple assasins.

With all due respect to Charmzzz, I have more than 4000 matches in Dominion and I can form my own opinion.


And both me and charmzzz agree that stamina pools should be looked at for heros who struggle with management.
we also both agree that gear stats are bad for the game. This is where we differ compared to you.


Before you thank him, read opening statement. Is we wanted to play something that feels like Duel, we would. But we didn't.

You are ignoring the fact that hard core guys like you already had 1v1, 2v2 and 4v4 modes without gear stats. Guys like me played mod we like, with gear stats. So it wasn't you who was cheated out of hundreds of play hours, and hundreds of thousands of steel or some real money as well. It isn't you who has to relearn the way you play every of your heroes once again, spending extra hours and hours taken away from your regular life.

I didn't ignore it. I already talked about this earlier with your comment about "you had ranked dominion." I'm not going to repeat that discussion again.

Sweaty_Sock
10-20-2018, 02:45 AM
Knight_Raime

I mained duels, then expanded into dom... dom has 4 people, hate to break it to you buddy but thats not a duel

NHLGoldenKnight
10-20-2018, 04:43 AM
And both me and charmzzz agree that stamina pools should be looked at for heros who struggle with management.
we also both agree that gear stats are bad for the game. This is where we differ compared to you.



I didn't ignore it. I already talked about this earlier with your comment about "you had ranked dominion." I'm not going to repeat that discussion again.

You did ignore it. Only excuse was how there was no incentive to play realistic or ranked dominion. So wasn't it easier to offer little bit more rewards for playing Realistic dominion and keep regular dominion the way large numbers of players prefer it to be? So we both have options,
Or it was easier to screw large base of loyal Dominion players, take their time and money and on top of that spend who knows how many work hours into something disgusting as these perks are?

You will probably say how that wouldn't work, and you are right. It wouldn't work because majority of players would still chose to play regular Dominion. So guys like you would be stuck in empty sessions. That is why you would rather screw majority just so minority can have what they want. Funny, reminds me of current political situation in States. Or even better, guys who complain how there are no more fun sports car with manual transmission. But when there are some, they go and buy beige station wagon.

MarshalMoriarty
10-20-2018, 05:02 AM
So the fact that people just shy of 2 years worth of time and investment can just be excused by parroting 'its better for the game'? What planet are these guys from? Where saying 'its games as a service, you should accept getting shafted because that's how its supposed to be'.

All to introduce a system that disporportionally hits the classes who were already considered in need of work and aids those who were least in need. That does nothing to tackle spam, that assigns perks based on how Ubi think those characters should be played rather let the player decide for themselves? And again quite apart from power, a system that has simply replaced our custom characters we put so much time into, with reset characters that makes everything we've done feel pointless.

And to have Mods saying 'its a new system, let's give it time'. How much time will it take for Ubi to refund the money people had stolen over this? How long should we wait until you give us free gear to get back to any kind of approximation of where our characters were at, given that we've seen them plummet back to Square 1? How long do we have to spend arguing with imbeciles claiming this is just salt from losing a crutch when its actually about the unjust theft of our money and time, taking 2 years of effort and saying Abracadabra - its gone!?

Deflect how you like, but this has been a repulsive betrayal of loyal customers. We have not asked for anything unreasonable here - we just want what our money and time earned. If we had been able to redeem our characters progression and directly convert it to this new system by being given a pool of points relative to the gear we had, to spend on getting Perks of our choice and upgrade them, there wouldn't be an issue.

The actual power or benefits or otherwise of which doesn't matter nearly so much as the feeling you cheated us out of our progression, our time and our money.

Soldier_of_Dawn
10-20-2018, 06:22 AM
Actually one of the primary complaints I've seen through out the entirety of for honor was how 4v4 was nothing but a spam fest. No stamina gear means people can't spam and actually have to pay attention to their stamina bar. (this is also been reduced due to no revenge gear.)

As far as spam fests go, I'm sure that's more to do with the following:



the nature of 4v4 - where the amount of skill normally seen in duels tends to go out of the window. However, this is normally the case at lower levels. High-level team play requires a different kind of skill. In many cases, more than one.




ganking - while no solution is consistent, this issue can be addressed in a variety of ways:

dodging, blocking, and parrying to build your revenge
calling for help
grouping up
going after objectives to fragment death-balls





revenge builds, revenge feats, and revenge general - these types of players can be addressed by the following:

In 1v1 scenarios, change your approach or swallow your pride and call for help.
Fight fire with fire or adapt - you can adjust one(or more) of your loadouts for team battles in terms of both gear and feats.
Coordinated ganking - if you're ganking, don't spam attacks yourself or you'll get blocked or parried and build your opponent's revenge quicker. Also, interrupting your teammates' offense can cost you a lot. Time your attacks so you can shut those revenge builds down. There are guides on how to gank which are still relevant, even with the new perk system.
Try disabling your opponents or knocking them off balance. Bashes, parrying, guardbreaks, Dou Shi's Choke, Impaling Riposte, Impaling Charge, Long Arm, Spear Sweep, Demon's Embrace, Predator's Mercy, and Stampede Charge are examples of how you could disable opponents in revenge. When they are caught by one of these they can't attack and are often left open to team punishes. Yes, some of the mentioned moves require better timing than others.
Back off. When an opponent is in revenge, get back or turtle hard until their revenge runs out. Unless your ganking, avoid attacking and use the disabling tips mentioned above to slow them down.





BALANCING - if a player is able to spam the same moves and get away with it in 1v1 scenarios chances are that you're dealing with:

50/50s
400ms light attacks or 400ms zone attacks
an OP attack - for example, the Conqueror's Shield Bash is very quick and has a quick recovery so it is nearly impossible to counter.
an exploit yet to be addressed
balancing issues between certain characters



The best way to address the spam fest is to address the balancing issues and get the characters balanced quicker. Waiting three months for two reworks is far too slow. Balancing should be done monthly and I don't mean small tweaks. I recommend frequent test servers too. Nerfing the stamina is a less than half-decent and lazy approach to resolve the spam issue as that introduces new problems, as mentioned in the complaints, and spamming still takes place. For the most part, it replaces one problem for another.

High stamina allows for a variety of playstyles while low stamina forces a lower variety. Is that a good thing? Not everyone favors slower paced and lower intensity fights. You have to respect the fact that each person is different and many will have a different style to yours. With exploits and balancing issues aside, is it fair to force everyone to play your way?

Believe it or not, players do pay attention to their stamina bar during team play, at least at higher levels. During the gear stat era, players still had to worry about the following stamina draining feats:

Stun Trap - level 1 feat with 100% stamina drain
Kiai - level 1 feat with 100% stamina drain
Harsh Judgement
Bear Trap - players would often lay multiple traps in the same area
Fear Itself


Players also had to worry about the following:

Parrying
Stamina draining bashes - often repeated
Shugoki's Headbutt
Raider's Stampede
Centurion's stamina draining offense and parry punishes
Other forms of stamina draining offense


All the above feats and moves mentioned, and any that I forgot to mention, are good counters for spammers but they are not a perfect replacement for balancing.

What you and I can agree on is the absence of high damage builds, and the absence of revenge builds as that encouraged frequent spamming since attacks are uninterruptable in revenge. However, you have to remember that revenge builds had low damage and defense outside revenge, and players had to use that knowledge to their advantage. That's how the developers tried to balance it. Also, revenge builds were a legit playstyle due to that balance, that fact they had a tactical use at high-level team play, it takes skill to build revenge at higher levels, and that there were players that personally preferred this playstyle. It's not always about exploits. The real reason revenge builds were a nuisance is due to balancing issues that won't be fixed for a very long time. Another reason may be the recent buff revenge was given as a means to counter death-balls.

Again, the best way to address the spamming is to fix the balancing issues that we've been waiting so long to get addressed and, if Marching Fire is anything to go by, we still have a very long wait.

Knight_Raime, sorry if I have said many things that you already know but this was also for the benefit of others reading this discussion and any developers that want to know our thoughts.

Knight_Raime
10-20-2018, 06:32 AM
Knight_Raime

I mained duels, then expanded into dom... dom has 4 people, hate to break it to you buddy but thats not a duel

This in no way addresses what I was actually talking about nor adds anything to the discussion. Try again.


You did ignore it. Only excuse was how there was no incentive to play realistic or ranked dominion. So wasn't it easier to offer little bit more rewards for playing Realistic dominion and keep regular dominion the way large numbers of players prefer it to be? So we both have options,
Or it was easier to screw large base of loyal Dominion players, take their time and money and on top of that spend who knows how many work hours into something disgusting as these perks are?

You will probably say how that wouldn't work, and you are right. It wouldn't work because majority of players would still chose to play regular Dominion. So guys like you would be stuck in empty sessions. That is why you would rather screw majority just so minority can have what they want. Funny, reminds me of current political situation in States. Or even better, guys who complain how there are no more fun sports car with manual transmission. But when there are some, they go and buy beige station wagon.

Actually no. You're the only one going on about incentive. I specifically stated ranked dominion wasn't touched because it was more competitive by nature and not everyone wants to play with that mindset just because they want gear stats gone. And that it makes sense to have your main game mode also be the main experience that only slightly varies from mode to mode (with same player count in mind.) Plus the ranked system was still messed up. Which really messed with matchmaking. So your "you had other modes" point isn't a point.

yfkutfui
10-20-2018, 08:19 AM
This in no way addresses what I was actually talking about nor adds anything to the discussion. Try again.



Actually no. You're the only one going on about incentive. I specifically stated ranked dominion wasn't touched because it was more competitive by nature and not everyone wants to play with that mindset just because they want gear stats gone. And that it makes sense to have your main game mode also be the main experience that only slightly varies from mode to mode (with same player count in mind.) Plus the ranked system was still messed up. Which really messed with matchmaking. So your "you had other modes" point isn't a point.

what is your problem? no one allowed to have a say but you? your like an annoying Drunk, do us all a favour and just go away

Specialkha
10-20-2018, 08:30 AM
what is your problem? no one allowed to have a say but you? your like an annoying Drunk, do us all a favour and just go away

I guess constructive argumentation is not to your taste.

Knight_Raime
10-20-2018, 08:37 AM
what is your problem? no one allowed to have a say but you? your like an annoying Drunk, do us all a favour and just go away

This isn't adding anything to the discussion at hand.

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 01:33 PM
I wouldn't have such a huge issue with the change to perks if majority of the available perks weren't so utterly wank.

Sweaty_Sock
10-20-2018, 02:44 PM
This in no way addresses what I was actually talking about nor adds anything to the discussion. Try again.

1) they have stated they will not balance separately for 1v1 and 4v4
2) there are a number of unique variables in 4 v 4, such as feats that can instantly drain stamina & ganks
3) gear stats were the only thing allowing many characters to be used in 4 v 4 (i.e. look at shugo now, one scream and hes taking amplified damage with a massive exhaustion timer)

Should they have been reworked to prevent min maxing some of the assassins/revenge builds etc? definitely. Should they have been totally removed... not without a viable replacement to balance 1v1 turned into 4v4, and not without some for of compensation for all the steel we ground (i.e. my expensive champion status) that has been totally removed - its like buying a digital album and then 16 months in they decide tracks 6-9 are to be replaced with a remix.


EDIT - you from another thread

Is a bit interesting to me hearing all of these complaints. Makes me wonder how many people stepped into duels at all. Since hero's in 4 basically perform as they do in 1's now. I come from primarily playing duels and all I can say is 4's feel refreshing now. Rather than the crap fest it was with gear stats. if heros needed gear stats to be able to perform at an acceptable level then the heros themselves were flawed. And the answer is not going back to gear stats.

boxerbeer
10-20-2018, 03:36 PM
your right, all my character suck now, i work very hard on the and now i dont see a way to fix them

MuscleTech12018
10-20-2018, 05:36 PM
if you read carefuly at this "knight rama" you will see all he says has no logic whatsoever. In this post alone he contracticted himself like 3-4 times :)) priceless.

Knight_Raime
10-20-2018, 07:56 PM
1) they have stated they will not balance separately for 1v1 and 4v4
2) there are a number of unique variables in 4 v 4, such as feats that can instantly drain stamina & ganks
3) gear stats were the only thing allowing many characters to be used in 4 v 4 (i.e. look at shugo now, one scream and hes taking amplified damage with a massive exhaustion timer)

Should they have been reworked to prevent min maxing some of the assassins/revenge builds etc? definitely. Should they have been totally removed... not without a viable replacement to balance 1v1 turned into 4v4, and not without some for of compensation for all the steel we ground (i.e. my expensive champion status) that has been totally removed - its like buying a digital album and then 16 months in they decide tracks 6-9 are to be replaced with a remix.


EDIT - you from another thread

Can you direct me to where they said your first point? Or can you clarify it a bit better? I'm not understanding.
Yes we've all established here, even myself, that stamina as a whole needs looking into. There are heros that have always had poor stamina management. I would rather UBI increase stamina pools/tweak stamina numbers/stamina damage moves than keep gear.

As I mentioned in a seperate reply if a hero needed gear to be viable the hero is flawed. The correct action would be to solve the root problem and not bandaid the issue. meaning fixing the hero. Not using gear stats to bandaid the hero. I don't know why you mentioned assassins. They were certainly not the only/biggest offenders with gear stats. Kensei/bushi were two big ones due to their slippery behavior and wide sweeping attacks. (just as examples.)

I normally would have agreed with fixing rather than removing. But the devs attempted to fix gear stats twice. And it didn't work out. Could they have found a solution to appease everyone? perhaps. But they decided to make the tough call of removing the stuff and replacing it with a different system. I don't think the perk system is perfect in it's current itteration. But the structure imo is good. And as i've said in other replies in this thread I agree they didn't properly compensate people. So I understand why people are upset in that regard.

What I don't understand and probably can't ever understand is why people would want to keep gear stats. When so many issues (that i've personally witnessed at least) people bring up are directly caused by gear stats. Or at least Gear stats were a big part of the issues. I believe a lot of the anger really just is because they failed to properly respect peoples investment with compensation. Not that the perk system is actually bad.

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 07:58 PM
What I don't understand and probably can't ever understand is why people would want to keep gear stats. When so many issues (that i've personally witnessed at least) people bring up are directly caused by gear stats. Or at least Gear stats were a big part of the issues. I believe a lot of the anger really just is because they failed to properly respect peoples investment with compensation. Not that the perk system is actually bad.

As I've indicated in another thread, with the old system it didn't matter which pieces of gear you equipped, you always got some benefit. It might not be the specific benefit you would like, but you got one nonetheless. With the new system, it's entirely possible to equip a set of top end gear that gives you no benefit whatsoever.

That, to me, is a problem.

Knight_Raime
10-20-2018, 08:07 PM
As I've indicated in another thread, with the old system it didn't matter which pieces of gear you equipped, you always got some benefit. It might not be the specific benefit you would like, but you got one nonetheless. With the new system, it's entirely possible to equip a set of top end gear that gives you no benefit whatsoever.

That, to me, is a problem.

Define benefit please. As I recall things are supposed to be setup so you should always have at least one perk active.

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 08:14 PM
Define benefit please. As I recall things are supposed to be setup so you should always have at least one perk active.

Well if that's the case, we have a problem, because it's entirely possible to have zero perks active regardless of the level of your gear, thus:

Full kit of legendary equipped, gear score 158, zero perks active, or indeed available through upgrade.

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44391366_10156830161484772_3472966085177769984_o.j pg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=b352d69056ec57e3ea1952e2db94154a&oe=5C525140

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 08:16 PM
Oh and by benefit I mean an increase in one or more of your attributes, so base damage, block damage, defense, stamina cost etc...

Knight_Raime
10-20-2018, 08:28 PM
Oh and by benefit I mean an increase in one or more of your attributes, so base damage, block damage, defense, stamina cost etc...

To your picture interesting. Did you have to go out of your way to make that happen? Or do you believe it's fairly easy for this to happen on accident?
I'm still not sure what you're getting at benefit wise. Are you saying that because perks are less impactful compared to gear stats you don't find perks beneficial?

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 08:33 PM
To your picture interesting. Did you have to go out of your way to make that happen? Or do you believe it's fairly easy for this to happen on accident?
I'm still not sure what you're getting at benefit wise. Are you saying that because perks are less impactful compared to gear stats you don't find perks beneficial?

All I did was equip some random pieces of gear I had lying around. It took me all of ten seconds to put that build together, it really wasn't difficult. It's actually more difficult to find a build that has active perks even with my inventory close to capacity.

No, what I'm saying is that regardless of which gear you equipped you would always see an increase to at least one of your stats. Sure, you may see penalties in other areas, but you were never left with base values. The perks system does leave you with base values. My Warden in his 158 gs kit is no different to a Warden with a 0 gs kit. Actually, I tell a lie. The 0 gs Warden would at least have the first perk active whereas my 158 gs Warden has none.

Velentix
10-20-2018, 08:35 PM
As I mentioned in a seperate reply if a hero needed gear to be viable the hero is flawed. The correct action would be to solve the root problem and not bandaid the issue. meaning fixing the hero. Not using gear stats to bandaid the hero.

Imo this is why a lot of people preferred stats. because it takes so long to get a rework on a hero that people would rather have the bandaid act as stitches, because they don't want to wait potentially over a year for their preferred hero's balance to be addressed. Honestly I can't blame that mindset. You also mentioned devs needing to look into stamina in general, which I agree with. Especially in 4v4 situations when you're potentially getting hit with stamina draining attacks from all directions, my only way to resolve that problem was for my loadouts to main stamina reduction as my most preferred stat.

Knight_Raime
10-20-2018, 08:40 PM
All I did was equip some random pieces of gear I had lying around. It took me all of ten seconds to put that build together, it really wasn't difficult. It's actually more difficult to find a build that has active perks even with my inventory close to capacity.

No, what I'm saying is that regardless of which gear you equipped you would always see an increase to at least one of your stats. Sure, you may see penalties in other areas, but you were never left with base values. The perks system does leave you with base values. My Warden in his 158 gs kit is no different to a Warden with a 0 gs kit. Actually, I tell a lie. The 0 gs Warden would at least have the first perk active whereas my 158 gs Warden has none.


Ah. well in that case then gear points need to be adjusted. It shouldn't be possible to not have a single perk active. That's why they bothered to have you have a perk active with no gear.
And I see. So it's more so that you don't like the new system because it doesn't reflect your investment into the character. I wouldn't know how to fix that off hand. But I don't think gear stats are the right way to handle that.


Imo this is why a lot of people preferred stats. because it takes so long to get a rework on a hero that people would rather have the bandaid act as stitches, because they don't want to wait potentially over a year for their preferred hero's balance to be addressed. Honestly I can't blame that mindset. You also mentioned devs needing to look into stamina in general, which I agree with. Especially in 4v4 situations when you're potentially getting hit with stamina draining attacks from all directions, my only way to resolve that problem was for my loadouts to main stamina reduction as my most preferred stat.

I can understand that thought process. But i'd rather wait a long time for at least a some what acceptable solution. Than keep an active problem around that has such a profound effect on the game as a whole. I personally avoided 4's pretty much entirely past season 2 because of how stuns (which have been fixed) feats, (have not been fixed) and gear stats (now been fixed) effected everything. I actually enjoy 4's now.

RealJayDee1984
10-20-2018, 08:52 PM
All I did was equip some random pieces of gear I had lying around. It took me all of ten seconds to put that build together, it really wasn't difficult. It's actually more difficult to find a build that has active perks even with my inventory close to capacity.
I didn't get to play too much since MF got released, but yeah, one time I thought "oh, a cool looking new helmet, a sweet armor, and a fancy hilt - let's equip those and see how it looks", and suddenly found myself without any active perk. Stuff like that... just doesn't feel particularly satisfying or motivating to me in any way.

MCC_goes_wild
10-20-2018, 10:04 PM
you dont need armor and weapon stuff until u get hero lvl1 and so on cause the whol equip in between is totally useless and doesnt give u more than the useless 1st perk. now for me armor and weapon stuff is totally useless and i have no need for those things, its only outfit and thats it.

Possii002
10-21-2018, 01:24 AM
Knight_raime it is if over half the player base leaves again. With these changes i expect that to happen again. The new modes are no fun if a hero like noboshi cant even do anything after 2 jabs because its OOS. Its not just the gear boost that we had. It was the over all systems behind the curtain. Gear stats didnt make a huge impact to the core game. It let players pick what they wanted. I had heavy focus on my stamina and low attack because i could get 5 or 6 good jabs in and back off. Now lucky if i can even get 3 jabs in before my stamina is out and cant even get away becuase you cant flea with out stamina. Cant dodge because your out of stamina. This hurts the game and makes it enjoyable. I been playing since day one and having to relearn every basic core system just to be able to fight is frustrating. You dont change core aspects to game 2 years in and your player base was growing. Now it will drop off again.

DefiledDragon
10-21-2018, 01:27 AM
You can still dodge when you're OOS.

Hormly
10-21-2018, 01:35 AM
Getting rid of stats is ultimately a good thing, but allot of rebalancing will be required now

NHLGoldenKnight
10-21-2018, 02:22 AM
This in no way addresses what I was actually talking about nor adds anything to the discussion. Try again.



Actually no. You're the only one going on about incentive. I specifically stated ranked dominion wasn't touched because it was more competitive by nature and not everyone wants to play with that mindset just because they want gear stats gone. And that it makes sense to have your main game mode also be the main experience that only slightly varies from mode to mode (with same player count in mind.) Plus the ranked system was still messed up. Which really messed with matchmaking. So your "you had other modes" point isn't a point.

But it is and of course you are ignoring simple solutions that could have been implemented instead of screwing over thousands of loyal players. You are telling me that it was easier to do what they did instead offer Realistic Dominion with no gear stats and rewards equal to regular dominion? And then measure how many players are interested in every of different modes by measuring activty.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-21-2018, 02:29 AM
I guess constructive argumentation is not to your taste.

Give me back my (at least) 150 000 steel spent on gear and my 1000 hours back, and only you are allowed to offer "constructive" arguments. You and Raime Knight remind me of bankers. You get cheated out of your savings and pension but according to bankers, it is for a greater good. While they just made profit at your expense.

vikingstone
10-21-2018, 05:47 AM
It said at the start of the game we have herd your feedback and have changed all stats to perks. WHO THE F WAS GIVING FEED BACK FOR THESE HORRIBLE PERKS?! All my heroes are ruined! I got most of my heroes to level 5 or higher and now they are all worthless as level 1s. I swing 3 times with any of them and i am out of stamina. A lot worse now that most heroes have stamina break moves. I just stumble around like a stamina-less fool.

Goldenbiy
10-21-2018, 07:13 AM
Guys!! Switch to soul calibur 6 and you are all happy again! Lets leave this trashgame! Dont put your energy on this **** anymore! This game is still **** after 2years of hope!!! Dont let them leech more mlney from people with hyping **** and stuff! They fooled us 2years!