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View Full Version : First Season Heroes vs Chinese Faction



Erhanninja
10-19-2018, 02:17 AM
I know itís still early days but I donít see any chance for players using first season heroes like WL LB Shugo or Nobu in this game anymore. This is just insane. How can I fight against heroes that has everything literally superior. Skill only takes so far and usually against beginners.

I play as NoBu. She was just worse as she was. No offence no stamina no opener no HA no UB. At least I was trying to compensate with gear stats. Now I donít even have that.

Now what I have is just running fast and reviving people to higher HP. Itís just running max %8 faster. I still canít catch any assassin running so itís just pointless.

This game is losing its essence more and more. I know purpose of the game is to make money but I shouldnít be forced to play Chinese faction to actually stand any chance.
Imagine we all play Chinese heroes itís just boring.

TSCDescon
10-19-2018, 02:38 AM
Well, at least your not playing a slow, lumbering, ***** Shugoki. We have the worst run speed. And I agree, all I do is revive and hold points, while assassin/vanguards go do the fighting.

Edit: Wow, the word f.a.t.s.o. is a bad word? I didn't knew lol.

Thel..
10-19-2018, 02:49 AM
I dunno. Seems like apart from the Jiang Jun the new heroes are pretty balanced. The JJ is hilariously OP with how much damage it does. And with losing the stam builds on armor getting a stance that gets you full stam in a few seconds is incredibly strong. Fighting someone with skill on Shaolin is kinda crazy too but as my Lawbringer i'm doing pretty well against the new champs. Would be nice for a rework but it's not too hard.

Once folks learn all the ways new heroes play they'll get easier as well. Only been a few days.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-19-2018, 04:52 AM
Agree on JJ. I would never think heavy is going to be OP but he has. There is no contest between him and any other Heavy hero or LB. Developers are clueless and instead of leaving these heroes as they were, once again they decided to listen couple of high tier player/youtubers. I can't stand these people and company that stands behind them anymore.

Chinese faction

1. Jj is God himself no contest there
2.Tiandi breakdancer that escapes every attack
3. Shaolin is ghost, literally. What is point of holding strategic point if he can just teleport behine you?
4. Nuxia is hell for someone like LB. How I am supposed to block/parry in order to punish her when se has unique tools and use them to punish my every defensive move?

Just trash, that is what this game has become.

Blitzwarrior771
10-19-2018, 04:56 AM
They cost 80$ I donít think they should be weak 😂

D_Node
10-19-2018, 05:50 AM
They most certainly don't cost $80. And even if they did, this game isn't supposed to be p2w. It's never been. This is... a new development.

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 06:24 AM
I mean. Alernakin has been using Nobu against new heros just fine. Granted he's one of if not the best recognized Nobu player in the game. but still.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-19-2018, 06:44 AM
And Jerry Miculek can fire 5 shots from a revolver on target in just 0.57 seconds yet it means very little to any other law enforcement officer or soldier.

TheDirtyDonut69
10-19-2018, 06:51 AM
The new heroes arent that bad. They are new so they are harder to fight because no one is used to them. Its like new players vs cent. Give it time and you will learn and it wont be too bad. I feel like they do need tweaking but its mostly people not knowing how to fight them calling them op.

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 06:53 AM
And Jerry Miculek can fire 5 shots from a revolver on target in just 0.57 seconds yet it means very little to any other law enforcement officer or soldier.

My point is that the original cast can still put up a good fight and win against the new heros should you be good at the game.
Which is a direct counter point to OP saying skill doesn't help.

Don't take this as me saying the OG cast is in an acceptable state. Or anything else.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-19-2018, 07:04 AM
Skill does help but you have to be full step ahead of your opponent which means that game isn't balanced well. Two equally skilled players , one with the new faction is going to have much easier time vs the other with OG hero, except for maybe Kensei.

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 07:11 AM
Skill does help but you have to be full step ahead of your opponent which means that game isn't balanced well. Two equally skilled players , one with the new faction is going to have much easier time vs the other with OG hero, except for maybe Kensei.

True ish. But the game has never been well balanced. Even back on release. And even if the game was better balanced at some point compared to now having a better hero is going to result in a better advantage to some degree. That's how fighters always have been. Even in highly revered games for competitive play like melty blood there are still only a handful of characters that are ever used in high tier/competitive play.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-19-2018, 07:25 AM
Yes, but game now feels even less balanced then ever before. I remember time when Centurion or PK were largest threat but even they are pretty much cannon fodder now. I can accept that game will never be perfectly balanced but this what we have is not even close. Please, take a look at some of the OG heroes and compare them to what came after? Look at the Shugo, Law or WL and look at the JJ. It's like completely different game altogether.

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 07:31 AM
Yes, but game now feels even less balanced then ever before. I remember time when Centurion or PK were largest threat but even they are pretty much cannon fodder now. I can accept that game will never be perfectly balanced but this what we have is not even close. Please, take a look at some of the OG heroes and compare them to what came after? Look at the Shugo, Law or WL and look at the JJ. It's like completely different game altogether.

WL and law still have redeeming qualities. WL is still pretty good against current S tier heros in duels. And Law's impale and long arm still don't trigger damage reduction like all other cc based moves (even GB and basic throws) do. So they're not entirely useless. Not saying they're acceptable by any stretch. But you're also fudging your point a bit by specifically mentioning 3 of the 4 hero's who haven't been touched yet (outside of year 1 dlc heros.)

I agree that balance is not in a good place.

GayForShugoki
10-19-2018, 07:42 AM
Agree on JJ. I would never think heavy is going to be OP but he has. There is no contest between him and any other Heavy hero or LB. Developers are clueless and instead of leaving these heroes as they were, once again they decided to listen couple of high tier player/youtubers. I can't stand these people and company that stands behind them anymore.

Chinese faction

1. Jj is God himself no contest there
2.Tiandi breakdancer that escapes every attack
3. Shaolin is ghost, literally. What is point of holding strategic point if he can just teleport behine you?
4. Nuxia is hell for someone like LB. How I am supposed to block/parry in order to punish her when se has unique tools and use them to punish my every defensive move?

Just trash, that is what this game has become.
I agree with some, but not all.

1. I agree with this. Heís far too over tuned and has way too much survivability in fights. Itís insanely hard to keep up with his attacks when it seems like he feints them all, saps into this or that, then backs off and has fall stamina again, making baiting his attacks pointless. For a heavy, his attacks are far too quick and can come from different directions impossibly fast.

2. Easy to predict, honestly. The only issue is hearing the voice line on his dash attack is ear grating as its spammed. The female one is even worse.

3. Heís fine, honestly. His feats are the issue. I had one use the teleport kick twice in one fight. No one should be able to do that. Itís annoying and unfun. Heís already a strong pick in dominion due to an instant ganking move. I honestly thought this game was posing for some kind of realism.

4. Nuxia is insanely weak and easy to open up. Not only are her feats utter trash, especially her tier 4 feats, she hasnít got much in terms of anything to use against turtles. Once you realise that her trap is arguably the most laughable thing used when 90% of the roster just spam dash attacks and lights, youíll do well against her. However, a laggy Nuxia is aids. She hits you with traps when the attack indicator hasnít even gone off.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-19-2018, 08:26 AM
WL and law still have redeeming qualities. WL is still pretty good against current S tier heros in duels. And Law's impale and long arm still don't trigger damage reduction like all other cc based moves (even GB and basic throws) do. So they're not entirely useless. Not saying they're acceptable by any stretch. But you're also fudging your point a bit by specifically mentioning 3 of the 4 hero's who haven't been touched yet (outside of year 1 dlc heros.)

I agree that balance is not in a good place.

Oh come on. Long arm is useless unless you can ledge someone. It should give you heavy like Valk gets after spear sweep. Impale is good only for taking away some heat from your allies. One impale and one heavy and it is pretty much OOS, and good luck then.

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 08:30 AM
Oh come on. Long arm is useless unless you can ledge someone. It should give you heavy like Valk gets after spear sweep. Impale is good only for taking away some heat from your allies. One impale and one heavy and it is pretty much OOS, and good luck then.

Uh. No. Both things don't proc damage reduction. Which means if you coordinate with your team one of those is almost enough to kill a full healthed person. impale alone can be gotten off of a heavy parry and nets LB 50 damage. Wall splat into heavy. into shove. into light.

Siegfried-Z
10-19-2018, 09:00 AM
JJ is only really strong in group fight. And that's what he is designed for.. like Kensei rework, they said it.

In 1v1, Nuxia, Shaolin and Tiandi are better..

So far Tiandi is the only one which feels really broken in my Opinion... just a Vanguard Spammer.. Nuxia is all about spam as well.

At least, JJ and Shaolin requires some skills and mix-up.

Tiandi and Nuxia are noobs pleasant. For players who likes interesting and more complex gameplaye, Shaolin and JJ (even more Shaolin) are more interesting.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-19-2018, 04:50 PM
Uh. No. Both things don't proc damage reduction. Which means if you coordinate with your team one of those is almost enough to kill a full healthed person. impale alone can be gotten off of a heavy parry and nets LB 50 damage. Wall splat into heavy. into shove. into light.

In both instances you are assuming that there is A) team waiting for you to do long arm or B) there is a wall behind your opponent where impale would be useful.

Without those, when you meet your opponent in a open battlefield, both moves are barely useless compared to tricks new heroes have, with long arm being even more useless than impale. There is no excuse why long arm wouldn't guarantee heavy because it is harder to pull off compared to many similar moves including spear sweep, yet some heroes are rewarded with heavy.

Helnekromancer
10-19-2018, 05:14 PM
They only hero I have trouble with is JJ but that's because I really like playing Nobushi and he just feels like a better version of her.

It's hard to tell what he's going with his slow side dash and his stamina regen is very annoying. Just dumping his stamina bar on me like a paint bucket and gain it all back before I could punish.

UbiInsulin
10-19-2018, 07:40 PM
The team's going to be tracking the Wu Lin heroes closely. They were all tuned up a bit leading into launch based on feedback from the Test. Feel free to make the case for any specific tweaks you'd like to see to the new heroes.

Archaelion
10-19-2018, 07:52 PM
It's not that the wu lin heroes are too strong. It's the the original heroes are too weak. #buff shugoki #2 comboes #wherdabalanceat

Knight_Raime
10-19-2018, 08:44 PM
In both instances you are assuming that there is A) team waiting for you to do long arm or B) there is a wall behind your opponent where impale would be useful.

Without those, when you meet your opponent in a open battlefield, both moves are barely useless compared to tricks new heroes have, with long arm being even more useless than impale. There is no excuse why long arm wouldn't guarantee heavy because it is harder to pull off compared to many similar moves including spear sweep, yet some heroes are rewarded with heavy.

Yes you can write a situation to make any move seem bad.
Point is there are still good aspects about LB and WL. I didn't state that because they still had good aspects that they are fine as is.

wolfman25br
10-19-2018, 10:23 PM
Kensei, warden, orochi, shaman can prevail, everyone else gets beated by chinese heros.
(minimizing skill gap of course)

yfkutfui
10-20-2018, 12:17 AM
my experience since the Marching Fire release has been one of.....

getting kicked in the shin by a fat guy while OOS

getting *****-slapped by a Monk while OOS

getting slaughtered by a dancing sword guy while OOS

getting light spammed to death by a chick while being OOS

its been a whole lot of grey screen and heavy panting for me since the 16th as i spend all my time OOS thanks to UBIsofts fabulous new "perk" system, and yes i'm S1, where its all about having a move-set (move-set? lol) consisting of two moves but going OOS if you dare throw them, thanks UBI!, spectacular Job? oh **** i just went OOS again?

RexXZ347
10-20-2018, 11:40 AM
The team's going to be tracking the Wu Lin heroes closely. They were all tuned up a bit leading into launch based on feedback from the Test. Feel free to make the case for any specific tweaks you'd like to see to the new heroes.

Just like how you tracked old heroes? Lol. That would take 2 years again? Lol.

Real_Doll
10-20-2018, 11:45 AM
As a Nobu main I totally feel ya!

I just loved her play style and the ability to further tweak it with gear based stats. Now that's all gone to ****.

I made a post earlier stating why I wasn't happy with the state of the game now, some idiot commented saying I was only being carried by my gear stats. I'm only Rep 4 to begin with lmao..

chukblok
10-20-2018, 02:43 PM
I must say...the new heroes seem a bit strong. No idea what to do against Shaolin. its like cutscene part 2.

Is that the jj that can side kick me accross the screen like a rag doll?

Kargish1
10-20-2018, 03:51 PM
You main Nobushi? My condolences to you.

Shaolin is everything Nobushi is but more.

Helnekromancer
10-20-2018, 07:47 PM
Rep 60 Nobushi, screw these chinese chuckle****s, why do more than half of them have long ***, slow ***, side dodges? Tiandi, Jiang Jun, Shaolin, Just becomes invisible for 2-3 seconds, my Naginata going right through their bodies.

It's like "Oh do you hate Kensei's side dodge? Prepare for 3 more variations of it and these variations can be soft feinted into lights."

Shaolin is so dirty, can't even tell what stance he is in because he hides his weapon behind his back.
One moment I'm fighting a 1v1, the next, 2 monkeys show up beating my *** with sticks. xD

Jiang Jun dumping his entire stamina bar on me like a toilet, only to back pedal with seafood poise when's hes finished and turtles.

Tiandi, side dodge into side dodge making me unable to hit him for 4 seconds screaming his/her head off, wish she shut the hell up.

Also why am I getting grabbed mid roll? Rolling doesn't work in this game anymore?, I would rather roll, trading half my stamina bar to avoid a hit and create space but now I lose half my stamina but also get hit. It's impossible to create distance from them with the amount of sliding, tracking moves they have.

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 07:56 PM
Shaolin is so dirty, can't even tell what stance he is in because he hides his weapon behind his back.

He blocks with his offhand, not with his staff. Watch his left hand if you want to know his last switched guard position.

Helnekromancer
10-20-2018, 08:26 PM
He blocks with his offhand, not with his staff. Watch his left hand if you want to know his last switched guard position.

Oh okay, thank you

DefiledDragon
10-20-2018, 08:49 PM
Oh okay, thank you

I shouldn't be giving Samurai advice on how to best the Wu Lin, but you're welcome ;)

PecarCZ
10-20-2018, 11:08 PM
This game become only light spam fest where is playable only assasins or new stupid p2w heroes because many heroes have that slow light attack and incredible slow heavy.Right now for win you only need spam lights to all side for win when play vs slow heroes.

Blitzwarrior771
10-21-2018, 12:15 AM
I think I quit 7x in a row 😂penalty ? Go ahead punish me 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Blitzwarrior771
10-21-2018, 12:17 AM
This game become only light spam fest where is playable only assasins or new stupid p2w heroes because many heroes have that slow light attack and incredible slow heavy.Right now for win you only need spam lights to all side for win when play vs slow heroes.

You canít blame light spam and same time use defense non stop it is both or none .

PecarCZ
10-21-2018, 12:31 AM
Lol its easy buy p2w heroes or play with assasins or kensei because rest heroes is so slow to attack.

Hormly
10-21-2018, 12:35 AM
Light heavy
Heavy light
Headbutt.

OOS

NHLGoldenKnight
10-21-2018, 02:12 AM
I am at the point where I almost don't care anymore. Game is trash and new heroes don't even fit the play style of older ones. It is like they imported Mortal Kombat guys into For Honor. You have to be a lot better than someone playing new heroes and you have to work twice as hard to beat them. I don't have time for that bs, luckily RDR2 is week away.

chukblok
10-21-2018, 02:52 AM
I am at the point where I almost don't care anymore. Game is trash and new heroes don't even fit the play style of older ones. It is like they imported Mortal Kombat guys into For Honor. You have to be a lot better than someone playing new heroes and you have to work twice as hard to beat them. I don't have time for that bs, luckily RDR2 is week away.

See..i want to disagree and be mad at you...but i cant because of your name. i love that team. even tho im from ontario

Arekonator
10-21-2018, 03:03 AM
There is no excuse why long arm wouldn't guarantee heavy because it is harder to pull off compared to many similar moves including spear sweep, yet some heroes are rewarded with heavy.
Long Arm does give you side heavy. Its been like that for a quite long time. Impale is probably second or third best ganking tool in the game.

MarshalMoriarty
10-21-2018, 03:46 AM
Every character is good at ganking in some fashion. Its an inherently favorable position and LB mains don't need to be told what these moves do.

The point is that if the best thing you can say about him is that he's good at setting up kills for other people to take, then you might as well give him a butler's uniform and tray so he can serve some drinks to your team. We don't just want to stand around in bases ganking for Kill assists!

We'd like to be able to mount some kind of offense of our own that isn't slow, weak and stamina intensive. Is it really asking so much after 7 Seasons in this mediocre state only to now be punished further? Its bad enough that the most heavily armored guy on the roster is now one of the only 'big lads' not to have HA.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-21-2018, 06:00 AM
See..i want to disagree and be mad at you...but i cant because of your name. i love that team. even tho im from ontario

Well in a way, we are Canadian team since most of outr players are from Canada . :D

NHLGoldenKnight
10-21-2018, 06:02 AM
Long Arm does give you side heavy. Its been like that for a quite long time. Impale is probably second or third best ganking tool in the game.

How sure you are? Since I am in situation when right away after performing long arm, my heavy gets blocked because opposing players is already in animation to get up and I get nothing from long arm.

YuBiShiGouShi
10-21-2018, 06:33 AM
The team's going to be tracking the Wu Lin heroes closely. They were all tuned up a bit leading into launch based on feedback from the Test. Feel free to make the case for any specific tweaks you'd like to see to the new heroes.

Yeah they were and we all know why they were tuned up because you all wanted to increase your sells for the expansion. It's the oldest trick in the book. Make new heroes extremely OP so that everyone will buy them and anybody that doesn't buy them can't play them until they're nerfed. If anybody thinks I'm wrong on this than I would love to hear why. I for one uninstalled the game but I know nobody cares but at least Ubisoft will have my 1500+ hours in feedback. The new heroes have made all the previous heroes useless.


FYI.....

Hey dev team, your new heroes and their attacks don't match their animations. At least for me playing on 200fps. I'm getting hit with attacks I'd say about 100-200ms faster than what the animations are showing.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
10-21-2018, 06:56 AM
I don't like the trap crap when getting ganked. It's bad enough having someone constantly GB you so the other guy gets a free hit on the counter but now I have to watch for this.

They should take side GB out if the game or nullify the free hit the other teammates gets on the cgb.

Goldenbiy
10-21-2018, 06:59 AM
Wulin are ok with just some adjustments. The old roster needs a rework in that direction because they cant compete against them in the wulin meta! Ubi have to focus more on reworking the old roster! If they stick with their stupid contents who nobody needs this game will die pretty soon. Old ones need new kits or improvements. Is that so hard to rework them that way like wulin? If ubi would hear to the proplayers suggestions in the past we wouldnt have this problems right now. But we have guys in ubi who made pretty silly decisions. There are great games out now like soul calibur6<3 i love it! I will focus on other games now and hope that ubi do something good after "2 years" now! Im sick of all the hope and time i spent into this game. Every week i hoped for some balance changes but nothing happened. I was here since day1 and im really frustrated now after marching fire because now its more broken with the new faction and perk system**** and to be honest i like the design and idea of this game. But ubi just want to make money with little effort! Its so obvious. A shame for a big company for not having a solution in balancing! And still they suck peoples money with this crap. So much time has left and especially old players. The newcomers will play a while and will get frustration. But who cares right ubi?;) its all about the money and business! Im sick of ubisoft. I will never buy a ubiproduct again!

NHLGoldenKnight
10-21-2018, 07:53 AM
Yeah they were and we all know why they were tuned up because you all wanted to increase your sells for the expansion. It's the oldest trick in the book. Make new heroes extremely OP so that everyone will buy them and anybody that doesn't buy them can't play them until they're nerfed. If anybody thinks I'm wrong on this than I would love to hear why. I for one uninstalled the game but I know nobody cares but at least Ubisoft will have my 1500+ hours in feedback. The new heroes have made all the previous heroes useless.


FYI.....

Hey dev team, your new heroes and their attacks don't match their animations. At least for me playing on 200fps. I'm getting hit with attacks I'd say about 100-200ms faster than what the animations are showing.

You bring up interesting point about attacks not matching animations. At the beginning I was sure it is connection issue but it didn't happen with older heroes. I am pretty sure I am not going crazy but new heroes keep taking my health before they even complete their attack or animation. Even more noticeable on JJ and Shaolin.

Have other experienced something similar?

MuscleTech12018
10-21-2018, 11:46 AM
When i read posts like this "Shaolin requires skill" I laugh so hard.

Arekonator
10-21-2018, 02:31 PM
How sure you are? Since I am in situation when right away after performing long arm, my heavy gets blocked because opposing players is already in animation to get up and I get nothing from long arm.

200% sure, Did that today. Note: You can only get side heavy, not top heavy. And if one of your teammates hits the enemy beforeyou do, it can cause him to recover sooner than normaly, thus denying you the hit. But it is guaranteed in normal circumstances.

Hormly
10-21-2018, 03:34 PM
I've decided to hang up my sword and shield and give this game a long break. I'll keep my eyes on development and if they ever bring up the rest of the cast ill return, but for now it just doesn't feel right, it's like I'm playing FH1 and the newer guys are playing FH2

RexXZ347
10-21-2018, 05:08 PM
I've decided to hang up my sword and shield and give this game a long break. I'll keep my eyes on development and if they ever bring up the rest of the cast ill return, but for now it just doesn't feel right, it's like I'm playing FH1 and the newer guys are playing FH2

me too, i already hung up my two katanas when i saw that aramusha nerf. I'm going to wait for a balance.

psyminion
10-21-2018, 05:59 PM
I'm putting the game down for a while as well....
been playing pretty much daily since launch, till my ps+ ran out 3 weeks ago and I took a break.

2 days ago i came back to Marching Fire where ALL my loadouts for my 7 Heroes over rep 7 are TRASH (I'M PRETTY CHEESED ABOUT THIS), I can't back-roll to make space once while (almost immediately) OOS, Minions make me curse, and LOT of the WU-LIN attacks are too fast to block/go through my blocks.

since gear doesn't matter I have nothing to grind for, thankfully, because playing has become less enjoyable.

Bring on Red Dead Redemption 2.
I'm ready to trade my now-spammy-katana for dynamic Horse Testicles.


PS. think about releasing a 'Classic' For Honor - without the reworks and various nerfs.. . That was gaming experience I will never forget. Cheers!

David_gorda
10-21-2018, 06:48 PM
Yeah i tried a Game Of brech today with lawbringer. Everyone else was playing the new Wulin heroes. Nothing i can do against their superfast attacks and unblockable punches that guarentuee damage and all other crap.
Not really intrested in playing any Of the new op heroes so Will have a long break or uninstall for honor. Playing FIFA now and next weekend red dead redemption.

Erhanninja
10-22-2018, 07:59 PM
Well never expected to get this many posts...

All I can see so far especially this JJ is slaughtering everyone. Literally so many times my whole team. He is very very OP.

He is superior to my Nobushi in every single way. Why? He is heavy class but runs faster than my Nobu even with my useless running perks. So whatís the point? Double her size and with heavier weapon. Dodge attack with instant direction change. Ridiculously fast UB and zone attacks. His stance is superior to HS in every way. I waste half of my stamina to to a HS thy causes 3 second stamina reg stop. While JJ can do his stance even without stamina and on top of that he recovers stamina and also takes a step back so gets safety of that. I donít know the numbers but he does a lot of damage. I mean a lot. One dodge attack into another light half of my HP gone. What do I get with this whole perks thing? Running fast thatís about it. Then I can run without interruption when Iím on revenge. Devs remove revenge gear fine then give me a perk based on revenge? You are NoBu donít bother fighting just leg it. Stamina is bad as well. 3 heavies Iím OOS. This is crazy. I donít recover stamina for eternity maybe good 10 seconds.

I think my perks are very very useless.

I can slightly stance a chance if I play Kensei. Even Conq is struggling now.

There is a lot to talk but I think Iím gonna quit this game very soon. Or give it a very very long break.

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-22-2018, 08:13 PM
Conq, Warden, PK, and Glad take all th enew cast out with zero issue. Perhaps you use a sea rat or one of the ones that wear wooden armor. Stick to the Knights. The new cast can not get through strong steel.

SunGoki
10-22-2018, 08:33 PM
Conq, Warden, PK, and Glad take all th enew cast out with zero issue. Perhaps you use a sea rat or one of the ones that wear wooden armor. Stick to the Knights. The new cast can not get through strong steel.

Sticking with knights isn't an option, there are other two factions who need love too. I will gladly stay with my Shugoki.

OoKaMi_79
10-22-2018, 08:51 PM
Rework is no longer an option at this time....few adjustments won’t bring balance.

A full reborn of all the characters is required. Ubisoft please recreate each character in the way you did with Chinese faction, give them the same amount of tools.

Vordred
10-22-2018, 09:49 PM
Rework is no longer an option at this time....few adjustments won’t bring balance.

A full reborn of all the characters is required. Ubisoft please recreate each character in the way you did with Chinese faction, give them the same amount of tools.

been saying the same for a while, their idea of a rework is to adjust values and add different properties. but that is not enough, they need whole need movesets as if it was a new character.
however they won't do that, because way invest time into characters we already own when instead of focusing on balancing the game out, they can put thier time into further breaking the game and making us pay for it.

Hormly
10-23-2018, 01:42 AM
been saying the same for a while, their idea of a rework is to adjust values and add different properties. but that is not enough, they need whole need movesets as if it was a new character.
however they won't do that, because way invest time into characters we already own when instead of focusing on balancing the game out, they can put thier time into further breaking the game and making us pay for it.

The real issue is that new characters are money makers and reworks are not, so the devs have little incentive to put effort into them, since they can't charge us for them...

...so my suggestion would be or us to be willing to pay steel for reworks just like a new hero. Honestly, I'd happily drop 15k steel for an in depth proper rework of my favorite hero if that's what it takes to motivate these devs

Charmzzz
10-23-2018, 07:43 AM
Conq, Warden, PK, and Glad take all th enew cast out with zero issue. Perhaps you use a sea rat or one of the ones that wear wooden armor. Stick to the Knights. The new cast can not get through strong steel.

So that's why you have <50% Winrate on pretty much all the Characters you mentioned, right? Sorry, but had to look you up on FH Tracker to see if you even play those Heroes. You do, but I doubt that you have "zero issues" with the Chinese guys...

This game went from a balance hell straight into "how to sell our expansion as much as possible" - "let's make new Heroes OP!". Now I even get why they did not want to nerf Conq - because he is also trash now compared to the new guys...

SpaceJim12
10-23-2018, 09:29 AM
Shaolin bother me with his teleporting thing. I guess is not a balance move, you know.

And chinese grandpa is obviously OP. He has too much compared with others heavies. His feints have same speed as Tiandi, and he got to much unblockables into soft feints. And don't forget, that right now we have low skill JJ. When people will find 100% moves for him, he will be hell for everyone. I don't like to call characters OP or something, but believe me after all JJ will be real problem, cause he got too much.

THEskarth
10-23-2018, 09:36 AM
The new heroes are not OP. You just have to learn how to play against them. It will take time for all the new skills / timings to be learned. The new heroes are a great addition to the existing roster.

SpaceJim12
10-23-2018, 09:39 AM
You bring up interesting point about attacks not matching animations. At the beginning I was sure it is connection issue but it didn't happen with older heroes. I am pretty sure I am not going crazy but new heroes keep taking my health before they even complete their attack or animation. Even more noticeable on JJ and Shaolin.

Have other experienced something similar?

My plus here.
When I fight against old characters, I could feel every missed attack. With JJ and Tiandi sometimes it feels like they attack me with air waves, created by their weapons.

KotoKuraken
10-23-2018, 10:20 AM
just putting my input here, but JJ is just a discount Kensei. As in, he's got what Kensei has, but less.

Same damage, less hyperarmor, an unblockable that can be backdodged and you'll dodge the feint into light or gb as well, and a zone that comes out from only one direction from neutral and one direction from Sifu. Oh and you have a super huge window to grab JJ out of his dodge before he can feint or softfeint his dodge attack, which is a pretty generous window

Both his heavies are slow. 1000ms for the first one, and the hyperarmor doesn't come in til 650ms through the move, which means anyone and everyone can light spam him out of that first heavy. His unblockable heavy is 900ms so you have plenty of time to backdodge to safety, and his late feint window means, again, that you dodge the gb and light attempt as well.

JJ hits hard, but only as hard as Kensei does. JJ is a "use only in ganking situations" character. That doesn't mean you can't do well with him in duels, but he's definitely not touching S tier

NHLGoldenKnight
10-23-2018, 05:42 PM
Keep in mind that Kensei is Vanguard and JJ is heavy.

Problem comes when you stop looking list of moves and look at the performance of new heroes. I am just a casual player, not the good one. Playing as a lone wolf almost always with randoms I try to focus on objectives not takedowns. But since introduction of new heroes it is amazing how well some guys play that I know were on my level, which means nothing special. I played against them or with them for months and I know what numbers they were pulling. Suddenly, they can perform at least 30% better than they used to. I struggle to hit 25 takedowns in Breach with best of my heroes while guys that were on my level just until few days ago, suddenly are getting easy 35+ and those playing JJ go over 40 regularly.
Now someone will say but we need to learn to fight against those heroes, right? Yeah, but guys playing them also need to learn and they will get better, what then? It is very worrisome ( is that the right word?) when on the first day, I see same guys who I know are at my level, pulling crazy numbers with their new heroes.

I don't feel like I was beaten by a better player, it is more like I was cheated by the game.

DefiledDragon
10-23-2018, 06:03 PM
People will get used to fighting these new characters and they will work out how to counter them and they won't feel quite so good. It's a whole new set of timings and animations to learn, that's all. I'm not saying they're balanced and I'm not saying none of them are OP, I'm just saying that time will tell and we can't judge the new faction until people have had enough time and experience with them to make a sound judgement.

OoKaMi_79
10-23-2018, 06:16 PM
People will get used to fighting these new characters and they will work out how to counter them and they won't feel quite so good. It's a whole new set of timings and animations to learn, that's all. I'm not saying they're balanced and I'm not saying none of them are OP, I'm just saying that time will tell and we can't judge the new faction until people have had enough time and experience with them to make a sound judgement.

I think that the problem does not come from just animations and timings, the problem is that devs are always bringing new mechanics to the game when we don’t have a well balanced game. JJ recovering stamina stand? Not feel fair....traps from Nuxia....teleport from Shaolin....That is the issue. Devs are always bringing to the table new tools for new chars and reworks are coming way too slow. Actually a real solution would be to forget reworks and recreate the old 12 + 6 chars from zero...they need a reborn to achieve balance.

DefiledDragon
10-23-2018, 09:00 PM
I think that the problem does not come from just animations and timings, the problem is that devs are always bringing new mechanics to the game when we don’t have a well balanced game. JJ recovering stamina stand? Not feel fair....traps from Nuxia....teleport from Shaolin....That is the issue. Devs are always bringing to the table new tools for new chars and reworks are coming way too slow. Actually a real solution would be to forget reworks and recreate the old 12 + 6 chars from zero...they need a reborn to achieve balance.

That's because they have no idea how to break the defensive meta they've created. It's far too easy to defend and almost all attacks in the game have hard counters that aren't difficult to pull off. Instead of constantly adding new, cheesy mechanics to defeat a good defensive player they should actually make defending more skill based, but that would require a rework of the mechanics that I just don't think they would be on board for. Maybe in FH2, who knows.