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Tigerboat
12-04-2005, 02:50 PM
There was discussion some days ago regarding upgrading to VIIC boats from VIIB on the premise that better equipment may be available. I am not sure if that is true or not, so maybe someone with a VIIC can compare relative to mid-1944. For my current boat, it's April 1944 and the following best equiment is availble to my VIIB in St. Nazaire:

Tower: VIIB/2
Flak: FKC/38 Flakzwiling
Torps: up thru Type V (G7es) and Lut I (G7a)
Engine: MAN Buchigelblase
Snorkel: yes
Battery: AFA 33 MAL 800
Hydrophones: Balkon Gerat
Sonar: S-Gerat
Radar: Fumo-61
Radar Warning: Fumb-7 (tho Fumb10 was available also)
Decoys: Bold 3
Anti-sonar Coatings: Alberich improved
Anti-Radar Coatings: Tarnmatte

Tigerboat
12-04-2005, 02:50 PM
There was discussion some days ago regarding upgrading to VIIC boats from VIIB on the premise that better equipment may be available. I am not sure if that is true or not, so maybe someone with a VIIC can compare relative to mid-1944. For my current boat, it's April 1944 and the following best equiment is availble to my VIIB in St. Nazaire:

Tower: VIIB/2
Flak: FKC/38 Flakzwiling
Torps: up thru Type V (G7es) and Lut I (G7a)
Engine: MAN Buchigelblase
Snorkel: yes
Battery: AFA 33 MAL 800
Hydrophones: Balkon Gerat
Sonar: S-Gerat
Radar: Fumo-61
Radar Warning: Fumb-7 (tho Fumb10 was available also)
Decoys: Bold 3
Anti-sonar Coatings: Alberich improved
Anti-Radar Coatings: Tarnmatte

lecek
12-04-2005, 03:04 PM
I don't know about better equipment. Though the c model does have better conning towers for AA.

The big advantage with the C model is that it dives 10% faster, goes 10% deeper, and only has a 5% hit in underwater speed.

VIIB depth before taking damage = 225 +/- 1
VIIC depth before taking damage = 247 +/- 1

VIIB mean crash dive time ~= 30 seconds
VIIC mean crash dive time ~= 27 seconds

VIIB underwater speed at flank = 8 knots
VIIC underwater speed at flank = 7.6 knots (still reads 8 on the dial)

The above stats are based on actual ingame performance and sub files, not the museum or manual.

paulhager
12-04-2005, 03:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tigerboat:
There was discussion some days ago regarding upgrading to VIIC boats from VIIB on the premise that better equipment may be available. I am not sure if that is true or not, so maybe someone with a VIIC can compare relative to mid-1944. For my current boat, it's April 1944 and the following best equiment is availble to my VIIB in St. Nazaire:

Tower: VIIB/2
Flak: FKC/38 Flakzwiling
Torps: up thru Type V (G7es) and Lut I (G7a)
Engine: MAN Buchigelblase
Snorkel: yes
Battery: AFA 33 MAL 800
Hydrophones: Balkon Gerat
Sonar: S-Gerat
Radar: Fumo-61
Radar Warning: Fumb-7 (tho Fumb10 was available also)
Decoys: Bold 3
Anti-sonar Coatings: Alberich improved
Anti-Radar Coatings: Tarnmatte </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you check the Altmeier story, you'll see that I had a VII-C in late '43 with the VII-C/4 conning tower and 3 quad 20 mm FLAK. By episode 3, I had 3 Mark 42 twin 37's. So, in terms of FLAK defense, that's a big difference. The VII-C/4 conning tower also eliminates the deck gun. I observed no change in performance, which I think is unrealistic. I'd expect the deck gun to generate a lot of drag when submerged.

I seem to recall having Bold 4, but that may have been later in the year. So, it appears that the biggest difference is conning tower and FLAK. However, I consider that to be worth it.

JU88
12-04-2005, 03:38 PM
Go for a VIIC with the VIIC/4 conning tower kitted out with 3x quads and you just got your self a Sunderland shreader http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

still better to dive from B-24's though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

WilhelmSchulz.
12-04-2005, 04:26 PM
Your lucky you suvived that long.

paulhager
12-04-2005, 04:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WilhelmSchulz.:
Your lucky you suvived that long. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been surprised on the surface a few times and the FLAK mounts came in very handy, so I'm inclined to agree with you. Obviously, if you are surprised in bad weather and can't used the FLAK, you're SOL. However, the extra FLAK mounts provide a modicum of additional defense at key points in the game. Probably saved me a few times.

Apropos of the above, I noted that the AI will often attack out of the Sun. Very nasty, particular if the AI doesn't use radar - that happened to me a few times. I don't know if this was a bug, a feature, or just good programming.

Stingray-65
12-05-2005, 08:26 AM
@Tigerboat
Yeah, I asked about this a couple of weeks ago. I thought I'd go on another patrol with my VIIB and think it over.http://thewolveslair.forumsplace.com/images/smiles/eusa_think.gif I'm still undecided at this point. I love the looks of the C (trivial, I know), plus everyone said "better upgrades" (that has me considering it), but I love the submerged speed & range of my B. Plus, I just earned the right to display our group's insignia on it. That makes me feel like I'm trading her off too soon. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I do want to get a C, eventually.

lecek
12-05-2005, 02:51 PM
You keep your insignia on the C. At least you can add it right away if it isn't already ther by default. You don't need to earn it again.

For me the extra diving speed and depth is worth it. 3 seconds is forever when you don't know when the next bomb will fall, and when evading later war destroyers, 244 meters feels much safer then 222.

The extra speed advantage of the b is not that great, 0.4 knots. The C model still does 7.6 and that still reads as 8 knots.

As for the range, when is the last time you ran your bats dry?

I go C model as soon as I can.

WilhelmSchulz.
12-05-2005, 04:21 PM
Radar: Fumo-61

If you wait a bit you get the FuMO 65 wich has a modern display.

Trydan
12-14-2005, 10:09 AM
One of the differences between a veteran VIIB and VIIC is that when you get your new VIIC, you need to spend a lot of renown put all that equipment onto it, which you had slowly acquired for your VIIB over the course of a few years. That might be possible, but if not, then hanging on to your VIIB may actually be a better option.

It also depends a bit on your tactics and the theatre in which you are operating. If you can exploit the better operating depth of the later VIIC types, then great. But this may not be possible if you spend all your time in the Med'.

On a different note, the VIIC/4 tower is unrealistic in several senses. Firstly, there is no degradation to the speed/submerge performance, due to the extra size and stowage requirements. Then, there is the fact that the U-Flak generally carried more crew. And finally, the U-Flak didn't carry as many torpedoes, in order to stow the additional ammunition.

Stingray-65
12-14-2005, 10:49 AM
Well, I finally returned from my 7th patrol (May 13 - July 3, 1940) & traded my VIIB in for a VIIC. I've not gone out in it yet. I just looked it over in port to see if there were any other obvious differances besides the conning tower. None that I can tell. I got the upgraded model too (improved engines, hydrophone & batteries). I had already done the same to my VIIB. And BTW, I did get to keep our uboat number & insignia on it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So far, it looks like they just upgraded my conning tower for a big chunk of renown. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

And at least I retired my VIIB on a good note. It was my most successful (& grueling) patrol yet: sunk 17 ships totalling 61,981 tons. (I've been following everyone's tips, tricks, & general advice here at the forums. I owe you all a big TY.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif) I returned to port with exhausted munitions & crew. With a little luck, now that I've found some good hunting grounds, I might potentially have the opportunity to join the 100K club on my 1st mission out with my new VIIC. I hope I'm not jinxing it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Ratek
12-14-2005, 12:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trydan:
On a different note, the VIIC/4 tower is unrealistic in several senses. Firstly, there is no degradation to the speed/submerge performance, due to the extra size and stowage requirements. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But at the same time there is no deckgun which was a huge drag as well... They cancel out pretty well.