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OldMan____
11-04-2005, 05:45 AM
Does anyone knows if there is any 401 servers left (full switch ones) ? I quit tryint to life with this awful patch that have a completely different control behavior online than offline (online is simply impossible.. strange ailerons fake inputs all he time .. completely unstable plane liek if it was walking on a rope tightened between two buildings).

If there is no good server left I will ahve to live with offline only or change hobby.

If there is enough interested people, some of the big server ouses that have several servers onlne could try to leave a 4.01 server up ....

OldMan____
11-04-2005, 05:45 AM
Does anyone knows if there is any 401 servers left (full switch ones) ? I quit tryint to life with this awful patch that have a completely different control behavior online than offline (online is simply impossible.. strange ailerons fake inputs all he time .. completely unstable plane liek if it was walking on a rope tightened between two buildings).

If there is no good server left I will ahve to live with offline only or change hobby.

If there is enough interested people, some of the big server ouses that have several servers onlne could try to leave a 4.01 server up ....

HeinzBar
11-04-2005, 06:19 AM
S!,
I've actually stopped flying 4.02 because of the myrid of issues, ie, inertia quirks, wobbling, FW paper mache DM, etc. While I don't care for the FW's panzer like DM, I find the FM in 4.01 to be superior than the wobblin' gobblin' mess we currently see in 4.02.

I know others that are switching back to 4.01 and are in the same boat as yourself. What are the times you fly? Several of us fly 20:00 -5gmt on HL several times a week. Interested?

HB

OldMan___
11-04-2005, 07:35 AM
I will try to show up. It is about 23h here but I can manage to squeeze an hour of flight.

Thanks

crazyivan1970
11-04-2005, 10:07 AM
I think it`s time for Maddox to stop supporting this sim and move on... What`s the point? Nobody wants to move their finger and spend a little time trying to figure things out. Just gimme what I WANT in the box with the gift wrapper. You guys are unbelievable.

NorrisMcWhirter
11-04-2005, 10:14 AM
That's right. After all, Oldman and Heinz have only just started playing this game after all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Maybe, Ivan, like a lot of people, they're just fed up of being messed about with half-ar*sed "fixes" and "tweaks"?

Ta,
Norris

OldMan___
11-04-2005, 10:57 AM
Ivan, you don 't have the slighest Idea of how hard I have tryed to figure it out what is happening. I even WROTE a small driver to track all the input in DirectInput to see if my Stick is creating this inputs. It is not!! My joystick is 100% fine!! I used all my knowledge as ex-operating system developer and now game developer and I simply cannot discover why my ailerons keep going to full deflection with ZERO input!!! Only thing I know it is NOT joytick input!!


Unfortunatelly I was not able to cretae a reproductbility method to pass it to Maddox. I also have the wooble problem but it is MUINIMAL if compared to my current aileron problem.

I still want to play the game, I cannot play it on 4.02, what is wrong in trying to find a server using a patch level that works? Should I just stop playing? Trow my money away?

LEBillfish
11-04-2005, 11:04 AM
Did you all try the fix I suggested.....It's a pain in the butt, yet worked for many to get rid of the control surface stutters?

crazyivan1970
11-04-2005, 11:08 AM
Guys, i didn`t mean to offend anyone... but my PM is about to blow up... and every second post in this forum is about wobbling and how crappy this patch is. How else would i react knowing two things...
1) They put alot of time and effort in 402
2) Half of the people doesn`t have this problem.

It`s nothing personal, it just the negativity that ticks me off. I have 3 joysticks and tested all 3.. FFB2, X45 and Saitek Cyborg Gold...and all work fine. What is it then??? Maybe the answer is in WinXP64 that i am currently using?

OldMan___
11-04-2005, 11:20 AM
Half the people don't have it means another half have it. You can get as mad as you want from the amount of people complaining. But think how mad are the people that are complaining and so many people don't beleive them (not saying you don't). They are complaining because they feel unhappy of not being able to play online since t do it they must use apatch that does not work properly on their machine (they did not gain a patch.. they lost a comunity)

I am very glad 1C gives us so extended support. But I think community should press LESS for patches with features and planes and give them time to do Proper QUALITY ASSURANCE.

Obviously there must be SOMETHING wrong with a patch that causes so much people to have problems.



And I already tried to reinstall the game, even made a binary check comparing two instalations and no difference other than my configuration files, that I tryed to replace with no different results.

And I am not going to get so low to beleive a defrag can change anything related to something that has no relation to HD.

LEBillfish
11-04-2005, 11:25 AM
Ivan, I actually think (believe not positive) it's not the patch itself, or sticks, or add on programs as a fresh install of all those things fixes it.

What I "believe" it to be is one of those Ghosts in the Machine things......Where some line of code in the new patch reacts badly with a line of code in the old installation......

YET!!......

Varies as to degree dependant on how that line of code of the old install "changes" per user.

A fresh install fixes it, that means a "Virgin Sim" with the patch is fine......In kind adding old personal settings, 3rd party programs and files etc. does not seem to bother it.

My only concern is that over time as one plays "possibly" working changable aspects of the sim back to the pre-patch state that it "might" re-occur.........However, it is possible due to the new patch it never will.

In my case it was such a violent flutter of all control surfaces from say 0-20% input that litterally from 50m away I could not hit a B24 with all FW guns firing....Up to speed, no turbulance.

However the re-install fixed it and I believe I encountered one of the more extreme "conflicts"...Others less.

crazyivan1970
11-04-2005, 11:26 AM
Oldman, with all due respect i dont buy difference between offline and online as far as so called wobble concerned...sorry.

LEBillfish
11-04-2005, 11:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan___:
And I am not going to get so low to beleive a defrag can change anything related to something that has no relation to HD. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I CAN tell you that is wrong.....With all versions from 1.0-4.02 when the sim starts stuttering you'd be shocked at what a defrag of both the sims drive and OS drive will do to smooth it out.

Remember, it's not just the sim, but the sim, OS, graphic card files, sound card files, etc. that must ALL work and talk together "smoothly". This is a VERY system intensive sim.......In kind you'd be shocked at how shutting down background programs will dramatically improve play simply due to the fact you're putting too much load on your PCs resources.

OldMan___
11-04-2005, 11:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Oldman, with all due respect i dont buy difference between offline and online as far as so called wobble concerned...sorry. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But offline you can simply roll back to 4.01.. online you cannot....


And no defrag won't affect anmything but disk access speed. That has nothing related to correctness of game, just speed. Speed is not a problem here since my machine has 4G ram and does not touch hard drive when flying. Beleive me. All ese is placebo effect.

And.. as developer .. It does not matter if someone buy or not. If it happens.. it is there. It won't disapear just because someone does not beleive on it.

LEBillfish
11-04-2005, 11:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan___:
And no defrag won't affect anmything but disk access speed. That has nothing related to correctness of game, just speed. Speed is not a problem here since my machine has 4G ram and does not touch hard drive when flying. Beleive me. All ese is placebo effect.

And.. as developer .. It does not matter if someone buy or not. If it happens.. it is there. It won't disapear just because someone does not beleive on it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, then since you don't want to take the advice from those that found ways to make the sim work much better......guess you're just S.O.L. as if you know so much better then why can't you resolve your problems like others have?

Frankly, when I see someone state they have a problem and without even trying out solutions shooting down every possible solution........ That tells me the person is enjoying "having the problem" and the attention it brings more then the benefits of having their problem resolved.

At that point I can only offer one thing to suit your needs.....

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">AWWwwwwwwww, Poor baaaaaby, I know they just don't understand do they http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif</span>

OldMan___
11-04-2005, 12:09 PM
Just stating that IF a defrag is to solve an INPUT problem I would need to trow my master degree on Operating Systems out by the window. (or someone at microsoft ...)


Network related issues are possible, why? because the server send commands to client to keep things sync. Hard disk is not even being USED when I am flying, so it is NOT possible to change anything. Defragging is a Myth.. I should send this to mythbusters.


Your reinstall might have solved the problem, but the defrag not. I return game to 4.01 and bug is gone. No defrag here... so is not related to data block coherence on the disk. All people that defraged also reinstalled the patch or whole game. The defrag was just placebo.

TheGozr
11-04-2005, 01:08 PM
100 % agree with Yvan.

LEBillfish
11-04-2005, 01:15 PM
Then never defrag.....Never clean out old files when re-installing.....Never try anything as in the end it matters not to me or anyone else....DO what you know is correct and everyone else who resolved the problem is a fool for doing.

Simply, I made the suggestion that worked for many on how to fix the "wobble/shudder" in 4.02. Don't want to do it, that's fine, you seem to have the answers so why ask the question as no one can past that point help?

4.02 "now" after I took the steps I outlined elsewhere works fine for me...Works fine for many others after doing the same....Don't want to believe it, that's kewl hon......I'll just keep flying 4.02 and you can fly on the numerous and ever growing 4.01 servers....In kind keep telling everyone they don't realize they have not fixed the problem and quick enough I'd imagine everyone else will realize their error and revert to 4.01.

Trouble is, what happens when 4.03 is released? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

HeinzBar
11-04-2005, 01:20 PM
S!,
I honestly don't mean to offend anyone, I'm just repeating the problems I'm experiencing w/ this current patch. Just like everyone else, it's a matter of what works for some, doesn't necessary work for others. After hours of fooling around w/ 4.02, I can not give it any praise as much as I'd love to give it a positive review. In so much that I'm happy to see others enjoying this patch, it is anything but enjoyable for me and my system. This leaves me w/ the only options of flying offline in 3.04 or 4.01, where I do not experience the multiple troubles caused by 4.02. The other alternative is to fly online, using 4.02, and experience a night of frustration. So, as many people whom are experiencing troubles w/ this patch, yet still want to fly online, the only alternative is to find like minded folks willing to fly earlier versions of PF together.

Sincerely,
HB

LEBillfish
11-04-2005, 01:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Oldman, with all due respect i dont buy difference between offline and online as far as so called wobble concerned...sorry. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Offline is where I could take the time to determine what my online problem "was/past tense".......Had same issue both off and online.


Really to, I'm beginning to wonder if when folks are speaking of "wobble" they are speaking of the same issue I had or it is simply a minor version of it....Seriously you coult watch the control surfaces "flutter" at maybe 3-5 est. motions/sec....It was a very violent loss of control and only noticable from say the -20/-10% to +10/20% range of input motion.......Sadly where all fine tuning of flight path is done.

LEBillfish
11-04-2005, 01:25 PM
Re-post one last time....Hope it works for the rest of you like it has many.......

Hi All;

If you read these forums and the 4.02 patch threads you might of heard of the terrible time I've been having with the patch, specifically with the Joystick inputs which naturally directly relates to how the planes fly/FM........& 3.03/4 was a fresh install for me. So if you are having troubles with this patch read on.

Re-patching did nothing.

Working stick settings just dulled it.

Deleting and re-adding fresh files did little.

Essentially, nothing worked........So giving into the inevitable, I saved my critical files, and deleted IL2-AEP-PF....checking to make sure I removed all aspects of the sim using both "Add/Remove Software" & then insuring it by deleting all files and folders (yet did NOT insure registry was wiped but could not hurt).

Next I completely reinstalled in this manner (and yes I realize some steps/patches are normally by-passed yet this is how I do it)

*Downloaded 4.02 AGAIN from Ubi site (31,039 Kb)
*Defrag
*Reboot
*IL2FB
*AEP
*2.04
*PF
*3.03m
*3.03 to 3.04m
*4.01m
*4.02m
*Reboot
*Defrag
*Start Sim (Run it long enough to generate user files and folders and check settings) then shut it down.
*Add IL2 utility software
*Made a copy of Conf.exe & Users\Doe\Settings.ini renaming copies ConfORIG.ini etc.
*Deleted contents of Conf/settings.ini's using notepad.
*Paste contents from old Conf/settings.ini's into new empty files.
*Added back Paint/Samples(sound) files.
*Started Sim, checked settings.
*Defragged
*Reboot
*Then checked sim.

Made a vast difference. Instantly I could tell the FM was vastly different (from first attempt at 4.02) in QMB. Input flutter was gone. Control was restored. Feel of the plane was much different.


I realize it's a pain, yet if you have been having serious problems with 4.02 take the time and do it. A fresh re-install made a gigantic difference.......Now I'm hoping I can look at the Sim as it really stands in 4.02.

OldMan___
11-04-2005, 01:33 PM
You uninstalled your game and reinstalled it.. THAT solved.. not the defrag. Doing a defrag after the other without deleting any files between them will change not a single BLOCK of your hard drive.

I never defragged a NTFS filesystem in my life and wil not do it since I know how it works and that fragmentation makes no difference for it (FAT file system does suffer from it) since large save or deletes already defrag the given sections of the disc.

LEBillfish
11-04-2005, 01:34 PM
wasting my time this thread....cya.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

HayateAce
11-04-2005, 01:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
defrag hag nag </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Listen!

Defrag isn't going to change the behavior of the game code ONE TINY BIT. Period.

Whatever problem you think you had, it must not be the same as what the majority of "wobble" suffers are complaining about. This is obviously a language problem.

Your control-surface-flutter has NOTHING to do with aircraft that behave like they have a 6 inch tall upper stab or none at all. We are seeing this problem with the mustang, corsair, jug and now obviously the FW.

Forget "wobble", and let's call it "unstable yaw." We are seeing players like OM and HB with this complaint, maybe the ones who also have unstable yaw but are not complaining simply aren't ace enough to know better?

http://www.kiddstoys.co.uk/weebtumb.jpg

OldMan____
11-04-2005, 06:15 PM
Ok, just figured out what was my problem. I runned game with some profiler tools on and discovered that when launced by HL the game was using il2_corep4.dll ... and WTF.. I have an Athlon64. Just deleted it.. and now everything is SMOOTH and GREAT!!! It is like someone removed a rat from the wires inside my joystick.

Than just noticed the p4 dll was still from the " new dll set for NV cards only"... mmmmm well don´t know if it is related.

Will try to collect some more data to find out if there was something else in my environment making it use p4 dll than take some serious conclusions.


Don´t know if it will change anything on anyone else PC (only do that if you don´t have a p4). Strangely it gave no crash while using that dlls.

OldMan____
11-04-2005, 06:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
defrag hag nag </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Listen!

Defrag isn't going to change the behavior of the game code ONE TINY BIT. Period.

Whatever problem you think you had, it must not be the same as what the majority of "wobble" suffers are complaining about. This is obviously a language problem.

Your control-surface-flutter has NOTHING to do with aircraft that behave like they have a 6 inch tall upper stab or none at all. We are seeing this problem with the mustang, corsair, jug and now obviously the FW.

Forget "wobble", and let's call it "unstable yaw." We are seeing players like OM and HB with this complaint, maybe the ones who also have unstable yaw but are not complaining simply aren't ace enough to know better?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just to clarify HayateAce. I was also having another problem that only a very few were having.. the random fake inputs on controls. I was trying to get rid of it and the wooble is also gone as a free gift ....

GR142-Pipper
11-04-2005, 10:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
Just to clarify HayateAce. I was also having another problem that only a very few were having.. the random fake inputs on controls. I was trying to get rid of it and the wooble is also gone as a free gift .... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Just out of curiosity, do you have a Saitek X45. I'm getting the very same random control imputs (mostly an aileron roll to the left of about 40-50 degrees at a time and I'd like to have it cease. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

GR142-Pipper

HeinzBar
11-04-2005, 11:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
Ok, just figured out what was my problem. I runned game with some profiler tools on and discovered that when launced by HL the game was using il2_corep4.dll ... and WTF.. I have an Athlon64. Just deleted it.. and now everything is SMOOTH and GREAT!!! It is like someone removed a rat from the wires inside my joystick.

Than just noticed the p4 dll was still from the " new dll set for NV cards only"... mmmmm well don´t know if it is related.

Will try to collect some more data to find out if there was something else in my environment making it use p4 dll than take some serious conclusions.


Don´t know if it will change anything on anyone else PC (only do that if you don´t have a p4). Strangely it gave no crash while using that dlls. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

S! Oldman,
I think you're on to something. I did the exact thing you posted and my extreme wobbles seem to be cured too!!! While I get some wobbles, it seems to be part of the FM and not the extreme oscillations I was experiencing for the past 2 weeks (or whenever we got the patch). This little trick has allowed me to start learning how to fly this patch...thank goodness!! I'm not saying it's a cure for everyone, but it's well worth investigating.

Thanks Oldman!!!!!!!!!!

HB

OldMan____
11-05-2005, 04:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
Just to clarify HayateAce. I was also having another problem that only a very few were having.. the random fake inputs on controls. I was trying to get rid of it and the wooble is also gone as a free gift .... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Just out of curiosity, do you have a Saitek X45. I'm getting the very same random control imputs (mostly an aileron roll to the left of about 40-50 degrees at a time and I'd like to have it cease. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

GR142-Pipper </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

have a X45 and an EVo (tough I am using ony evo t play since X45 throttle lever is kaput). Try doing what I suggested if you have an athlon.

FiAW_Vaijy
11-05-2005, 04:15 AM
To say that half of the community have a problem is not true. I have not heard any finn complaining yet. And we are hundreds here.

If we look the cuncam videos , it seems that it has been a bit like wobbling in real life.

The aiming should not be too easy , we just need some more practice.

OldMan____
11-05-2005, 05:12 AM
The fact that some people had the problem and manage to make it disapear proves there is at least 2 very different behaviors on current patch.

edgflyer
11-05-2005, 05:57 AM
Awsome catch there OldMan. Definately one to archive Ivan for the others to easily see that are having the same problem.

msalama
11-05-2005, 07:44 AM
You guys might also like to try another joystick driver if one is available. Solved the wobble problem for me...

OldMan____
11-05-2005, 10:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by msalama:
You guys might also like to try another joystick driver if one is available. Solved the wobble problem for me... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I said.. it was not my case since I got the random inpu even without ANY joystic connected.

msalama
11-05-2005, 10:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As I said.. it was not my case since I got the random input even without ANY joystick connected. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, sorry, missed that part for some reason. But it might still work for others, no?