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BadBOO17
10-07-2018, 08:57 PM
Friendly reminder that conq needs a nerf or just even rework him again. Nothing like getting bashed to death over and over to show how balanced he is

HerrNein
10-07-2018, 09:01 PM
No, Orochi needs a hard light attack speed nerd to ensure this game becomes enjoyable for more people than toxic light spamming weebs.

UbiInsulin
10-07-2018, 09:56 PM
No, Orochi needs a hard light attack speed nerd to ensure this game becomes enjoyable for more people than toxic light spamming weebs.

OP made the thread about Conqueror though. If you'd like to discuss changes to Orochi, it may be time to start your own new thread.

ArchDukeInstinct
10-07-2018, 10:27 PM
Friendly reminder that conq needs a nerf or just even rework him again. Nothing like getting bashed to death over and over to show how balanced he is

Well so far the devs say they aren't going to so lol.

DefiledDragon
10-08-2018, 12:23 AM
Well so far the devs say they aren't going to so lol.

Salty Conq main alert!! ;)

As ArchConqInstConq has said, the devs feel that "while he is a strong pick" etc.. etc.. In other words, keep eating those bashes.

ArchDukeInstinct
10-08-2018, 12:33 AM
ArchConqInstConq

0/10

ChampionRuby50g
10-08-2018, 01:00 AM
0/10

Just curious, have you ever commented on a thread that isnít related to Conq or one which hasnít had Conq mentioned?

ArchDukeInstinct
10-08-2018, 01:40 AM
Just curious, have you ever commented on a thread that isn’t related to Conq or one which hasn’t had Conq mentioned?

Of course I do. Check my post history if you don't believe it.

i will say that I probably talk a lot more about Conqueror than other characters, but that is the class that I am most qualified to speak on.

Sweaty_Sock
10-08-2018, 12:25 PM
Conq needs a slower recovery on missed bash (can be closed with a light at the mo) and only one allguard (either zone of his down stance). Rest be fine

Siegfried-Z
10-08-2018, 12:59 PM
Conq would still be strong but more balance and fine i think with thse two changes :

Recovery time allowing a punish on a miss Sb
Can no longer hold his zone as long as he want to (too strong anti-gank tool) as it is already an amazing tool to stop opponents mix up

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-08-2018, 03:46 PM
When he sucked people wanted a buff (I didnt) know that he has been buffed people want him nerfed. This forum makes zero sense. Instead of buffing other characters you guys want to take Conqs one opening. Idc, slow it down, people will still complain because of the nature of the move.

And @Siegfried-Z - There is no such thing as a "too strong anti-gank tool".

DappeR._.BeasT
10-08-2018, 04:19 PM
Buff Lawbee

Siegfried-Z
10-08-2018, 04:39 PM
When he sucked people wanted a buff (I didnt) know that he has been buffed people want him nerfed. This forum makes zero sense. Instead of buffing other characters you guys want to take Conqs one opening. Idc, slow it down, people will still complain because of the nature of the move.

And @Siegfried-Z - There is no such thing as a "too strong anti-gank tool".

Really ? We are talking about Conq which is proven to be by far the strongest char for 2 seasons straight and gonna be in S7 without a doubt as well.

Do you think people enjoy playing the game of Buff and Nerf elevator ?

What people want are balance Char, which is by definition a Char strong enough to be efficient but not breaking the game because beeing OP.

Nobody ask the conq to came back to trash tiers as they did with PK, just to lower him a bit to be balanced.

No char should have a massive 60% win rate. For honor gonna be king of balanced when all char gonna be between at least 46/47% and max 54% win rate.

Plus, yes there is "too strong anti-gank tool", a Decent Conq can literally enjoy revenge 3 times and hold on for his team because of these kind of things.

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-08-2018, 05:05 PM
Really ? We are talking about Conq which is proven to be by far the strongest char for 2 seasons straight and gonna be in S7 without a doubt as well.

Do you think people enjoy playing the game of Buff and Nerf elevator ?

What people want are balance Char, which is by definition a Char strong enough to be efficient but not breaking the game because beeing OP.

Nobody ask the conq to came back to trash tiers as they did with PK, just to lower him a bit to be balanced.

No char should have a massive 60% win rate. For honor gonna be king of balanced when all char gonna be between at least 46/47% and max 54% win rate.

Plus, yes there is "too strong anti-gank tool", a Decent Conq can literally enjoy revenge 3 times and hold on for his team because of these kind of things.

One will always rise to the top. No matter what, its the nature of fighting games. Irts like you guys have never played one. Idc what people enjoy, but that elevator is whats going to be ridden for a long time with the way people ask for buffs and nerfs here. How they buff and nerf is up to the devs, and Im sorry but I will take their input and game balances waaaaaaaaaaay before I take people on this forum who feel since they see a few stats they know everything and how to balance everything. Meanwhile they cant balance themselves on one leg.

One move does not make someone OP. He needs the shield bash, again slow it down, whatever, but its comical to me that people find it so hard to side step.

"a Decent Conq can literally enjoy revenge 3 times and hold on for his team because of these kind of things." Sounds like its working just fine to me.Something cant be "too strong" when it does its intended job.

rasi777125
10-08-2018, 05:43 PM
O yes is to strong ,and he loos not Konstitution

DefiledDragon
10-08-2018, 05:47 PM
Pointless thread tbh. The designers have already stated quite clearly that they don't intend to nerf his shield bash and that they feel the need these "high pressure tools" in the game to counter the defensive meta. There plan is to buff everyone else so it's just a matter of waiting until everyone else on the roster has a spammable move that most of the roster can't do anything to punish.

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-08-2018, 06:03 PM
Pointless thread tbh. The designers have already stated quite clearly that they don't intend to nerf his shield bash and that they feel the need these "high pressure tools" in the game to counter the defensive meta. There plan is to buff everyone else so it's just a matter of waiting until everyone else on the roster has a spammable move that most of the roster can't do anything to punish.

Is this Ingles?

Siegfried-Z
10-08-2018, 06:04 PM
One will always rise to the top. No matter what, its the nature of fighting games. Irts like you guys have never played one. Idc what people enjoy, but that elevator is whats going to be ridden for a long time with the way people ask for buffs and nerfs here. How they buff and nerf is up to the devs, and Im sorry but I will take their input and game balances waaaaaaaaaaay before I take people on this forum who feel since they see a few stats they know everything and how to balance everything. Meanwhile they cant balance themselves on one leg.

One move does not make someone OP. He needs the shield bash, again slow it down, whatever, but its comical to me that people find it so hard to side step.

"a Decent Conq can literally enjoy revenge 3 times and hold on for his team because of these kind of things." Sounds like its working just fine to me.Something cant be "too strong" when it does its intended job.

Of course always one gonna be the first and one the last, but with less difference as possible is the goal of balancing a game.

Stats are not what made our opinion, it just proove always what most people says here for a while.

It is not the fact that SB is too hard to dodge, while it is not that easy, of course it is possible, but the fact is that's not punishable most of times even if missed.

So in your opinion a kit which made a char able to handle 1v3 without troubles getting revenge and revenge again is "doing its intended job"? Well, i gess we don't have the same understanding of what the game should be then.. if you want a game without challenge then keep going, that's fine for you ;)

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-08-2018, 06:17 PM
Of course always one gonna be the first and one the last, but with less difference as possible is the goal of balancing a game.

Stats are not what made our opinion, it just proove always what most people says here for a while.

It is not the fact that SB is too hard to dodge, while it is not that easy, of course it is possible, but the fact is that's not punishable most of times even if missed.

So in your opinion a kit which made a char able to handle 1v3 without troubles getting revenge and revenge again is "doing its intended job"? Well, i gess we don't have the same understanding of what the game should be then.. if you want a game without challenge then keep going, that's fine for you ;)

You guys have dedicated your forum lives to nerf a character people cried to be buffed. Its comical. And Im not the one without challenge, thats what you want. As you are asking for a move you have issues with to be nerfed. See it doesnt work like that. You cant say someone else wants no challenge, while you beg for a nerf.

Also Conq doesnt get revenge, and revenge. His stamina does wear down. Perhaps stop attacking, start grabbing. When anyone is 3V1 and Im part of that 3 I back away. Because all attacking does is feed the revenge meter. Play smarter. As far as it working very well as an Anti Gank tool, again its doing it job. As a matter of fact if all characters had something similar it would help the ganking situation. Again, dont nerf just have the others come up to speed.

How you cant punish something youve side stepped is also beyond me. React faster. I mean its crazy. But again nerf the speed if it pleases the masses, but the move is needed.

Its just too much, everywhere you go here its nerf Conq, Warden, Valk, Shugoki, Kensi, Orochi, Shaman, literally you can find a thread for almost every character.

Knight_Raime
10-08-2018, 08:26 PM
Said it before and i'll say it again. Bash is not why he's top tier. Nerfing bash would only toss out the bad conq's. You need to be able to actually use his full kit to pull a W on someone who's actually decent at the game. Conq needs a reason to use his charged heavy outside option selecting. And his upper cut is awful. Conq's who bash only can be beaten if you know the match up between your hero and conq.

As an example orochi can use his dodge attack to beat the bash mix up. And full block stance doesn't work on orochi because he can hard feint into GB on it.
Who do you mainly play OP? Maybe I can give you tips.

Devils-_-legacy
10-08-2018, 08:54 PM
It's not the only reason Conq is doing so well but it's a main contributing factor for sure also some of the cast can't punish it consecutively like orochi or zerk can but to say it's not one of the reasons he's strong is surprising as nothing else in his kit strikes me as a viable tool when I use him other then his all block and the punch through but they got nurfed

Knight_Raime
10-08-2018, 09:13 PM
It's not the only reason Conq is doing so well but it's a main contributing factor for sure also some of the cast can't punish it consecutively like orochi or zerk can

iirc half the cast can punish it on reaction. and most of the rest can punish on prediction. only like 3? heros have no option to punish it at all.

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-08-2018, 09:20 PM
Said it before and i'll say it again. Bash is not why he's top tier. Nerfing bash would only toss out the bad conq's. You need to be able to actually use his full kit to pull a W on someone who's actually decent at the game. Conq needs a reason to use his charged heavy outside option selecting. And his upper cut is awful. Conq's who bash only can be beaten if you know the match up between your hero and conq.

As an example orochi can use his dodge attack to beat the bash mix up. And full block stance doesn't work on orochi because he can hard feint into GB on it.
Who do you mainly play OP? Maybe I can give you tips.

TBH this guy gets it. Completely. It would be an honor to play with you, pun intended, if you play on the X1

Devils-_-legacy
10-08-2018, 09:36 PM
iirc half the cast can punish it on reaction. and most of the rest can punish on prediction. only like 3? heros have no option to punish it at all.

I only used orochi and zerk because i find them the most able to shut conqs down consecutively based my play style not because there the only ones who can I should of elaborated on that my bad.

Knight_Raime
10-08-2018, 09:41 PM
I only used orochi and zerk because i find them the most able to shut conqs down consecutively based my play style not because there the only ones who can I should of elaborated on that my bad.

Sall good. I can agree that the people who can't punish it should be able to. and that the SB shouldn't do stamina damage on OOS people. But that's as much as i'd change.
Not saying i'm fond of how current conq is. But I recognize that what I want and what a lot of other players want from conq just isn't what the devs wanted with his rework. So we just gotta accept what we got.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
10-08-2018, 09:44 PM
I think conc is fine. I tried playing him because he looks cool as hell but I sucked with him so I play shugoki mostly. 1v1 is probably different than dominion with him as I will pop revenge.

Devils-_-legacy
10-08-2018, 09:45 PM
Sall good. I can agree that the people who can't punish it should be able to. and that the SB shouldn't do stamina damage on OOS people. But that's as much as i'd change
Not saying i'm fond of how current conq is. But I recognize that what I want and what a lot of other players want from conq just isn't what the devs wanted with his rework. So we just gotta accept what we got.

+1

Goat_of_Vermund
10-08-2018, 10:11 PM
I played a few duels with conqueror today after I was a bit frustrated (played with lawbringer and peacekeeper lots of matches, mostly against their hardcounters or just generally better characters). I played five matches with him, all five ended with either a rage quit or a hate message from the opponent (I won all five without even trying to read anything). Maybe I am a natural talent with my rep 7 conq and I suck with my mains, but I think he is simply a far better character.

His shieldbash should be nerfed in two ways: no followup on miss+warlord recovery, and no stamina damage to the exhausted. His zone attack also need some change, I can shut down half the cast by spamming it to counter their directional softfeints. It should be a light parry, that would be a sufficent drawback (though it could still be a superior light).

With these nerfs, some small buffs should come too: the shield uppercut is way too slow to be really viable, and his charged unblockable should eat less stamina while held.

I really like to play the conqueror sometimes, but let's be honest, he is not balanced. Only shamans, wardens, zerkers, gladiators and shinobis have some kind of fair chance against them, all other opponent yields a free win if the conq is patient.

BadBOO17
10-09-2018, 02:53 AM
Said it before and i'll say it again. Bash is not why he's top tier. Nerfing bash would only toss out the bad conq's. You need to be able to actually use his full kit to pull a W on someone who's actually decent at the game. Conq needs a reason to use his charged heavy outside option selecting. And his upper cut is awful. Conq's who bash only can be beaten if you know the match up between your hero and conq.

As an example orochi can use his dodge attack to beat the bash mix up. And full block stance doesn't work on orochi because he can hard feint into GB on it.
Who do you mainly play OP? Maybe I can give you tips.

i play alot of warden, raider, and cent for the most part(pretty much mostly cent of late). Raider i have the easiest time with conq because of his GB mechanics and i think hes probably the only one on the roster that can punish a bash with a gb but with centurion i could use whatever tips you got

Knight_Raime
10-09-2018, 02:57 AM
I played a few duels with conqueror today after I was a bit frustrated (played with lawbringer and peacekeeper lots of matches, mostly against their hardcounters or just generally better characters). I played five matches with him, all five ended with either a rage quit or a hate message from the opponent (I won all five without even trying to read anything). Maybe I am a natural talent with my rep 7 conq and I suck with my mains, but I think he is simply a far better character.

His shieldbash should be nerfed in two ways: no followup on miss+warlord recovery, and no stamina damage to the exhausted. His zone attack also need some change, I can shut down half the cast by spamming it to counter their directional softfeints. It should be a light parry, that would be a sufficent drawback (though it could still be a superior light).

With these nerfs, some small buffs should come too: the shield uppercut is way too slow to be really viable, and his charged unblockable should eat less stamina while held.

I really like to play the conqueror sometimes, but let's be honest, he is not balanced. Only shamans, wardens, zerkers, gladiators and shinobis have some kind of fair chance against them, all other opponent yields a free win if the conq is patient.

Conq has a stigma about him. So people will quit out just because it is conq. Not always because you were vastly out playing them. (not saying you're bad just trying to explain the behavior.)

Conq is an S tier hero due to a relatively safe offense and how safe his gameplay is in general. His heavies are almost as safe as centurions. And his zone is pretty alright as well. Full block is situationally useful. Really as i've said before conq is where conq is because of how safe he is. not because of one particular thing in his kit. I agree that SB shouldn't do stamina damage on OOS opponents (no stamina drain move should really.) But i'll have to disagree about everything else. His zone afaik was already a light parry. and zone is pretty easily parried when Vsing more patient and confident players. Can't spam it just like you can't spam his SB.

Recovery wise his SB is fine. You can't react GB after a dodge to warlord. You used to be able to before they normalized side dodge recovery. But now? No. Only difference here is conq can throw a chained light even on whiff. Orochi used to be able to do something similar if he whiffed his hurricane blast. imo more stuff like that needs to be in the game. That way it's not a game primarily of "I do something, respond, fail or succeed, go back to neutral." that's just my sentiment (and a lot of competitive players) though.

Also that's not entirely true. there are some out lier march ups. Highlander for instance really makes his day bad.

ArchDukeInstinct
10-09-2018, 02:57 AM
When he sucked people wanted a buff (I didnt) know that he has been buffed people want him nerfed. This forum makes zero sense. Instead of buffing other characters you guys want to take Conqs one opening. Idc, slow it down, people will still complain because of the nature of the move.

And @Siegfried-Z - There is no such thing as a "too strong anti-gank tool".

They didn't want buffs for Conqueror. They either were indifferent, wanted the character nerfed, or at best wanted a rework where Conqueror lost passive superior block and got a few meaningless buffs to make it look like the developers did their due diligence to compensate for such a large nerf. For the most part it did work out that way except shield bash became a viable offensive tool.

I found this hilarious thread I was in a year ago (pre-rework) on these forums where the crazy Anti-Conq I had to deal with was going on about how Conqueror shouldn't get any buffs because "1v1 balance doesn't matter". Not surprisingly the same person is now one of the main advocates for Conqueror getting nerfed into the ground now based solely on 1v1 win rates.

Knight_Raime
10-09-2018, 03:00 AM
They didn't want buffs for Conqueror. They either were indifferent, wanted the character nerfed, or at best wanted a rework where Conqueror lost passive superior block and got a few meaningless buffs to make it look like the developers did their due diligence to compensate for such a large nerf. For the most part it did work out that way except shield bash became a viable offensive tool.

I found this hilarious thread I was in a year ago (pre-rework) on these forums where the crazy Anti-Conq I had to deal with was going on about how Conqueror shouldn't get any buffs because "1v1 balance doesn't matter". Not surprisingly the same person is now one of the main advocates for Conqueror getting nerfed into the ground now based solely on 1v1 win rates.

Probably going to regret asking but who is this person? You can pm me their name if you want. Pretty sure it's against forum rules to make call outs but idk.

ArchDukeInstinct
10-09-2018, 03:02 AM
Conq has a stigma about him. So people will quit out just because it is conq.

Can confirm.

Hormly
10-09-2018, 04:25 AM
Another 6-12 months and the devs can nerf the SB

Siegfried-Z
10-09-2018, 09:34 AM
You guys have dedicated your forum lives to nerf a character people cried to be buffed. Its comical. And Im not the one without challenge, thats what you want. As you are asking for a move you have issues with to be nerfed. See it doesnt work like that. You cant say someone else wants no challenge, while you beg for a nerf.

Also Conq doesnt get revenge, and revenge. His stamina does wear down. Perhaps stop attacking, start grabbing. When anyone is 3V1 and Im part of that 3 I back away. Because all attacking does is feed the revenge meter. Play smarter. As far as it working very well as an Anti Gank tool, again its doing it job. As a matter of fact if all characters had something similar it would help the ganking situation. Again, dont nerf just have the others come up to speed.

How you cant punish something youve side stepped is also beyond me. React faster. I mean its crazy. But again nerf the speed if it pleases the masses, but the move is needed.

Its just too much, everywhere you go here its nerf Conq, Warden, Valk, Shugoki, Kensi, Orochi, Shaman, literally you can find a thread for almost every character.

What i want is a fairly balance game, if this is not the definition of challenging then our discussion is lost.

I nener ever start a thread complaining about Conq, and tbh, Conq is not a Char which is specially annoying me (except if i'm playing Kensei). What i said is only to give him a bigger recovery time if missed, and a time limit on zone (not the stam of course). That's all.

Because while i don't have much troubles with Conq, i know most people have, and looking at the stats, it is prooven he is too strong currently, so here again, you talk against facts.

I'm a Brazilian jiu-jitsu national competitors, so, i like challenge and i like to fight since i'm on my two legs.

I know they are many threads about nerf him of buff him, but this is people feeling, no one can controle it. I've never ask a single time a nerf for Valk, Kensei, Shugo or Shaman.

But yes, i undersatnd people could want the Conq to be a bit nerfed. And i've already said in my opinion Warden got a too big buff and Roch should have get An opener and not an annoying 400ms light chain .

I gave you an answer because you named me.
My purpose is always to get the most balanced and fairly point as possible.

And again, you're blaming everyone all over the place but still didn't have any opinion. No point to discuss with such a shadow speaker.

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-09-2018, 05:15 PM
What i want is a fairly balance game, if this is not the definition of challenging then our discussion is lost.

I nener ever start a thread complaining about Conq, and tbh, Conq is not a Char which is specially annoying me (except if i'm playing Kensei). What i said is only to give him a bigger recovery time if missed, and a time limit on zone (not the stam of course). That's all.

1. Because while i don't have much troubles with Conq, i know most people have, and looking at the stats, it is prooven he is too strong currently, so here again, you talk against facts.

2. I'm a Brazilian jiu-jitsu national competitors, so, i like challenge and i like to fight since i'm on my two legs.

3. I know they are many threads about nerf him of buff him, but this is people feeling, no one can controle it.

4. I've never ask a single time a nerf for Valk, Kensei, Shugo or Shaman.

But yes, i undersatnd people could want the Conq to be a bit nerfed. And i've already said in my opinion Warden got a too big buff and Roch should have get An opener and not an annoying 400ms light chain .

I gave you an answer because you named me.
My purpose is always to get the most balanced and fairly point as possible.

5. And again, you're blaming everyone all over the place but still didn't have any opinion. No point to discuss with such a shadow speaker.

The eff are you talking about lol?

1. The stats do not prove he is too strong. They prove he is strong, even top character. That alone does not make him OP. Period. One character always rises to the top in any fighting game. Also one set of stats they released does not give you ALL the data they use in balancing. Again Ill take the devs opinions over anyone here 99% of the time. As in them saying getting other characters iup to speed and not down to speed is the answer. I agree.

2. Man Idgaf what you do, how many pieces of plywood you kick thru. Idgaf if youre a national hot dog competitor or if you fight bears and tigers bare handed, at the SAME time. That ish is irrelevant to anything in this conversation.

3. Cant control what? Conq or peoples feelings? Cause he controllable, and people will always complain about something.

4. You never ask for a nerf? You then go on to say Warden, Roch received too much love. So which is it?

5. Im not blamiong anyone for anything except their inability to side step a SB. Ive also said I rather him pre buff when I didnt have to deal with this nonsense. Ive also saod slow down his SB, idc, but he needs it.

Im not sure what opinion or explanation youre looking. Or wtf a shadow speaker is. Its clear what my opinion is Mr Tiger Schulmann.

Siegfried-Z
10-09-2018, 11:56 PM
The eff are you talking about lol?

1. The stats do not prove he is too strong. They prove he is strong, even top character. That alone does not make him OP. Period. One character always rises to the top in any fighting game. Also one set of stats they released does not give you ALL the data they use in balancing. Again Ill take the devs opinions over anyone here 99% of the time. As in them saying getting other characters iup to speed and not down to speed is the answer. I agree.

2. Man Idgaf what you do, how many pieces of plywood you kick thru. Idgaf if youre a national hot dog competitor or if you fight bears and tigers bare handed, at the SAME time. That ish is irrelevant to anything in this conversation.

3. Cant control what? Conq or peoples feelings? Cause he controllable, and people will always complain about something.

4. You never ask for a nerf? You then go on to say Warden, Roch received too much love. So which is it?

5. Im not blamiong anyone for anything except their inability to side step a SB. Ive also said I rather him pre buff when I didnt have to deal with this nonsense. Ive also saod slow down his SB, idc, but he needs it.

Im not sure what opinion or explanation youre looking. Or wtf a shadow speaker is. Its clear what my opinion is Mr Tiger Schulmann.

Looks you need lots of time to understand things.
So i'll make it easier for you and follow your points.

1. Stats : as i already explain, Stats just confirm people feelings. And if you like to say factual things are not argue, then you're lost but that's your business.
You like to say you would believe devs before anyone like a good child but then, you should try to read properly because what the devs said is obviously Conq is outperforming others Char but dont want to nerf him "for the moment".. so that's a wait and see if others rework affect him.

2. My sport : i only talk about it for the "like the challenge" part. But you're the only one who brings on fancy things about it.. stop it, you're not Conor McGregor.

3. Was talking about people expressing themselves .
How can you answer "Conq is controllable" .. of course there is no question about this..

4. Here again it looks you missed the Reading class a long time ago or need glasses.
I Said i never ever ask nerf for few Char you named above. And i didn't say at all Roch got too much love but he would have been better To get a real opener as Tozen kick more than 400ms lights.
I only say the buff was too high for warden.

5. "Im not blamiong anyone for anything except their inability to.." Perfect nonsense there.
So first, word it in another way if you want it to mean something.
And No, you're only blaming everyone all over the forum for expressing themselves.

All that beeing said, read properly before reacting next time.

ArchDukeInstinct
10-10-2018, 02:42 AM
I nener ever start a thread complaining about Conq, and tbh, Conq is not a Char which is specially annoying me (except if i'm playing Kensei). What i said is only to give him a bigger recovery time if missed, and a time limit on zone (not the stam of course). That's all.

Because while i don't have much troubles with Conq, i know most people have, and looking at the stats, it is prooven he is too strong currently, so here again, you talk against facts.

Siegfried, are you saying you got peer pressured into complaining about Conqueror? lol You just said you don't even have much trouble with Conqueror and are only complaining because you see other people doing it. And this is a guy who brags about how much he likes challenge? Where's the challenge in falling in line and going with the flow?


And again, you're blaming everyone all over the place but still didn't have any opinion. No point to discuss with such a shadow speaker.

How can you call someone else a "shadow speaker" (whatever that means) who doesn't have any opinion, when you just admitted your own opinion on Conqueror is based on what other people think and not your own personal experience?

Siegfried-Z
10-10-2018, 08:56 AM
Siegfried, are you saying you got peer pressured into complaining about Conqueror? lol You just said you don't even have much trouble with Conqueror and are only complaining because you see other people doing it. And this is a guy who brags about how much he likes challenge? Where's the challenge in falling in line and going with the flow?



How can you call someone else a "shadow speaker" (whatever that means) who doesn't have any opinion, when you just admitted your own opinion on Conqueror is based on what other people think and not your own personal experience?

Arch,

What i exaclty said isn't i don't have any probs with Conq, as i said, i have if i play my main which is Kensei, can't do a thing against a good Conq.
But, yes, i don't really care because i know this is only a bad match-up and then switching for my Valk or Sham i don't have much probs then fighting Conq.

Why i agree Conq should have two things change a bit (recovery and zone) have nothing to do with the Challenge question. I agree because while i can handle without that much troubles Conq if playing my Valk for example, i know from what people say here PLUS the stats for two seasons now that he is a terrible Match up for plenty of Char. That's why, nothing else.

So, yes, i call him like that because he blames everyone but in the other hand brings nothing to the discussion.

My own experience about Conq is kind of weird, i can do well depending on which Char i use to fight him and also i'm very bad if i use him XD I'm definitly not a good Conq, but that doesn't change the fact lots of people are nightmare with him.

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-10-2018, 03:39 PM
Looks you need lots of time to understand things.
So i'll make it easier for you and follow your points.

1. Stats : as i already explain, Stats just confirm people feelings. And if you like to say factual things are not argue, then you're lost but that's your business.
You like to say you would believe devs before anyone like a good child but then, you should try to read properly because what the devs said is obviously Conq is outperforming others Char but dont want to nerf him "for the moment".. so that's a wait and see if others rework affect him.

2. My sport : i only talk about it for the "like the challenge" part. But you're the only one who brings on fancy things about it.. stop it, you're not Conor McGregor.

3. Was talking about people expressing themselves .
How can you answer "Conq is controllable" .. of course there is no question about this..

4. Here again it looks you missed the Reading class a long time ago or need glasses.
I Said i never ever ask nerf for few Char you named above. And i didn't say at all Roch got too much love but he would have been better To get a real opener as Tozen kick more than 400ms lights.
I only say the buff was too high for warden.

5. "Im not blamiong anyone for anything except their inability to.." Perfect nonsense there.
So first, word it in another way if you want it to mean something.
And No, you're only blaming everyone all over the forum for expressing themselves.

All that beeing said, read properly before reacting next time.

Name calling doesnt do anything for you. With your poor English it makes it worse. Also, Connor, nah, he lost. Youre the one talking about your personal life as if it has any bearing on this conversation anyways.

How do you tell me to restructure a perfectly worded statement when either youre using Google translate or your English just sucks. Bolded and underlined are the obvious examples since you want to play an English teacher.

You also cant say "I only" when it comes to Warden. Either you did or you didnt. Thats how a debate works.

Lastly the devs said they would rather rework and bring others shortcomings up to speed before visiting a nerf on Conq.

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-10-2018, 03:42 PM
They didn't want buffs for Conqueror. They either were indifferent, wanted the character nerfed, or at best wanted a rework where Conqueror lost passive superior block and got a few meaningless buffs to make it look like the developers did their due diligence to compensate for such a large nerf. For the most part it did work out that way except shield bash became a viable offensive tool.

I found this hilarious thread I was in a year ago (pre-rework) on these forums where the crazy Anti-Conq I had to deal with was going on about how Conqueror shouldn't get any buffs because "1v1 balance doesn't matter". Not surprisingly the same person is now one of the main advocates for Conqueror getting nerfed into the ground now based solely on 1v1 win rates.

You and I read different forums apparently. Your last statement, not even sure what youre trying to say,

Spectre_198
10-10-2018, 04:22 PM
Ive been light spammed by a conq before and id say its worse than orochi. He locks you in with his attacks and then spams all guard to get a free heavy. One of the most bs characters in the game

Specialkha
10-10-2018, 04:25 PM
Conq has some extremely easy match ups in the person of Cent, Shugoki and LB if I recall right. Once those 3 heroes get a rework, conq's win rate will lower. It does not change some things like SB being unpunishable for most of the cast, and how conq is easy to play and safe to play.

The issue here is the pace of the patching process, it is far too slow and has been plaguing this game since the release.

yfkutfui
10-10-2018, 04:27 PM
the Conq train is super annoying, shield bash spam light light, rinse repeat, over and over and over, its a ficking joke?

Siegfried-Z
10-10-2018, 05:12 PM
Name calling doesnt do anything for you. With your poor English it makes it worse. Also, Connor, nah, he lost. Youre the one talking about your personal life as if it has any bearing on this conversation anyways.

How do you tell me to restructure a perfectly worded statement when either youre using Google translate or your English just sucks. Bolded and underlined are the obvious examples since you want to play an English teacher.

You also cant say "I only" when it comes to Warden. Either you did or you didnt. Thats how a debate works.

Lastly the devs said they would rather rework and bring others shortcomings up to speed before visiting a nerf on Conq.

What i mean by word it correctly is to not saying a thing and his opposite in the same sentence as you did.

I don't think Grammar has a place in this discussion, but it looks you didn't find anything else than attacking me on my English while i'm not an English native speaker because you've got no argue at all because i just dismantle everything you said.
And i write there without any stupid translator.

Yes that's exactly what i said. They gonna wait before deciding if a nerf is the good solution to lower his win rate, because he is over performing right now.

Again, the "only" about Warden wasn't about "i only ask this or this" etc , that's about i only say this about Warden AMONG the char you were talking about. You've got serious reading and understanding problems.

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-10-2018, 05:46 PM
What i mean by word it correctly is to not saying a thing and his opposite in the same sentence as you did.

I don't think Grammar has a place in this discussion, but it looks you didn't find anything else than attacking me on my English while i'm not an English native speaker because you've got no argue at all because i just dismantle everything you said.
And i write there without any stupid translator.

Yes that's exactly what i said. They gonna wait before deciding if a nerf is the good solution to lower his win rate, because he is over performing right now.

Again, the "only" about Warden wasn't about "i only ask this or this" etc , that's about i only say this about Warden AMONG the char you were talking about. You've got serious reading and understanding problems.

This has gotten way too personal. Lets agree to disagree.

ArchDukeInstinct
10-11-2018, 02:22 AM
What i exaclty said isn't i don't have any probs with Conq, as i said, i have if i play my main which is Kensei, can't do a thing against a good Conq.
But, yes, i don't really care because i know this is only a bad match-up and then switching for my Valk or Sham i don't have much probs then fighting Conq.

Right, you said you didn't have "much troubles" with Conqueror which is exactly what I repeated back to you. Nobody here said you never had any problems at all.


Why i agree Conq should have two things change a bit (recovery and zone) have nothing to do with the Challenge question. I agree because while i can handle without that much troubles Conq if playing my Valk for example, i know from what people say here PLUS the stats for two seasons now that he is a terrible Match up for plenty of Char. That's why, nothing else.

Again, you're saying that you don't have much trouble depending on the character you are fighting as so how is it a Conq only problem? You want nerfs because other people want them. A lot of people cry about Kensei too and he's got plenty of his own 60+ matchups, so are you going to request nerfs for him too? Or is it a free pass for your main? Just wondering how much integrity you have.


So, yes, i call him like that because he blames everyone but in the other hand brings nothing to the discussion.

And what amazing insight have you brought to the discussion exactly?


My own experience about Conq is kind of weird, i can do well depending on which Char i use to fight him and also i'm very bad if i use him XD I'm definitly not a good Conq, but that doesn't change the fact lots of people are nightmare with him.

LOL Thank you for the honesty at least.


You and I read different forums apparently.

You're kidding yourself if you believe the calls for pre-rework buffs are anywhere near the same frequency/intensity of the present day call for nerfs.


Your last statement, not even sure what youre trying to say,

It was an anecdotal example clearly contradicting your belief that people magically went from wanting Conqueror buffs to Conqueror nerfs.


Ive been light spammed by a conq before and id say its worse than orochi. He locks you in with his attacks and then spams all guard to get a free heavy. One of the most bs characters in the game

Watch out everyone, we got an Anti-Conq that can't even block 500ms attacks over here.

Siegfried-Z
10-11-2018, 08:37 AM
This has gotten way too personal. Lets agree to disagree.

True point. Anyway disagree or not have a good time in the game man.


Right, you said you didn't have "much troubles" with Conqueror which is exactly what I repeated back to you. Nobody here said you never had any problems at all.

Again, you're saying that you don't have much trouble depending on the character you are fighting as so how is it a Conq only problem? You want nerfs because other people want them. A lot of people cry about Kensei too and he's got plenty of his own 60+ matchups, so are you going to request nerfs for him too? Or is it a free pass for your main? Just wondering how much integrity you have.

And what amazing insight have you brought to the discussion exactly?

LOL Thank you for the honesty at least.

Yes, as i said, i only have real troubles with my Main, but i play him most of time so..^^
Well, i don't think what i suggest is a big nerf. I don't suggest to change any mooves themselves, my suggestion was to make his Zone have a time limit other than OOS and Increase Sb recovery if missed. Because, it would not change the efficiency of Sb, but at least it gonna reward a bit your opponent for making a correct reading, sound fair enough.

But this is only a suggestion.

And of course Kensei got a lots of haters too, he is ranked 2nd after Conq, still with a big difference of 6% win rate. But of course i can be honest, i think Kensei should have his Zone tracking/range reduce. But that's all.

I've never said i bring amazing things on the forum, but i try to give an objective opinion and for exemple advices people which complain with Kensei as Vakris does even better than me.. while it start to be tiring to do so.

Haha like i said i'm always objective.. Conq is one of the char i'm not good with, he's just not fitting with my playstyle. But that's why we've got so many Char ! Everyone can find a good matching ;)

I'm not a Conq Hater Arch, but i understand some people can be frustrated by him, you can also if you're honest.

Don't worry soon enough nobody gonna complain about him for a while with MF Char coming soon XD

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-11-2018, 03:46 PM
You're kidding yourself if you believe the calls for pre-rework buffs are anywhere near the same frequency/intensity of the present day call for nerfs.



It was an anecdotal example clearly contradicting your belief that people magically went from wanting Conqueror buffs to Conqueror nerfs.





I underlined one thing. You said they didnt want Con buffs, period. Nothing about that statement you made had anything to do with present day. And I never tried to eight the 2. So again, you said they didnt want buffs, yes, yes people 100% did.

One thread, by one guy does not clearly do anything. There is no magic involved either way, people asked him to be buffed, now they want him to be nerfed. Im not sayin those people are one and the same. But that is what the population is asking for. So what exactly are you saying?

ArchDukeInstinct
10-12-2018, 03:00 AM
Well, i don't think what i suggest is a big nerf. I don't suggest to change any mooves themselves, my suggestion was to make his Zone have a time limit other than OOS and Increase Sb recovery if missed. Because, it would not change the efficiency of Sb, but at least it gonna reward a bit your opponent for making a correct reading, sound fair enough.

You can already get a guard break against a shield bash miss on prediction. So what are you even complaining about? It's even doable on reaction if you're fast enough. Sorry you can't get a free guard break and heavy every single time you dodge a 500ms attack that only does 13 damage I guess?

There already is an inherent time limit on the zone. You either run out of stamina and if you have revenge you run out of revenge. What's the difficulty here? Zone takes an extreme amount of stamina so it's not like you're waiting some insane amount of time. And if Conqueror doesn't use his cancel and lets the zone drop naturally there's a large amount of recovery time that you can easily get a guard break in.

Most of the rest of your post is just the same nonsense repeated so there's not much use reply to it.


I underlined one thing. You said they didnt want Con buffs, period. Nothing about that statement you made had anything to do with present day. And I never tried to eight the 2. So again, you said they didnt want buffs, yes, yes people 100% did.

No, buffing Conqueror was not a popular sentiment among the forum population pre-rework. The other opinions I've mentioned previously were far more widely held. But this is not really worth the trouble to debate anyway.

Spectre_198
10-12-2018, 03:40 AM
Wouldnt have commented if it was just myself who experienced this; My entire team has had issues with conqs light spam chain. And you didn't address the all guard free heavy at all. You're getting defensive since everyones bashing on your favorite character and gotta say its pretty sad.

ArchDukeInstinct
10-12-2018, 04:20 AM
Wouldnt have commented if it was just myself who experienced this; My entire team has had issues with conqs light spam chain. And you didn't address the all guard free heavy at all. You're getting defensive since everyones bashing on your favorite character and gotta say its pretty sad.

Me getting defensive? You're the one throwing your team under the bus to deflect the embarrassment off of yourself. Conqueror's opening lights are 600ms (except for top light) all following lights are only 500ms a completely standard timing. All light damage is 13. That 2nd light in the combo is damn near a free parry a lot of the time... If you can't handle that under normal circumstances, then you need to uninstall the game.

As for full block, what's there to address? You can completely counter heavy/full block mixup by simply walking backwards as you input your parry attempt. That'll option select between a parry and a heavy that gets thrown while you move backwards causing it to not hit. Conqueror can't do anything about the whiff because the delays from full block stance. If you're talking about Conqueror predicting an imminent attack and risking a full block stance to catch it, that's working as intended and there's nothing to change here.

ChampionRuby50g
10-12-2018, 06:01 AM
No, buffing Conqueror was not a popular sentiment among the forum population pre-rework. The other opinions I've mentioned previously were far more widely held. But this is not really worth the trouble to debate anyway.

Disagree on this. From memory the general consensus was that Conq was one of the weakest heroes and did need a buff, but he needed to lose free GB on blocked heavy attacks, which he did. Not just on this forum, but globally the masses agreed Conq needed buffs.

ArchDukeInstinct
10-12-2018, 06:16 AM
Disagree on this. From memory the general consensus was that Conq was one of the weakest heroes and did need a buff, but he needed to lose free GB on blocked heavy attacks, which he did. Not just on this forum, but globally the masses agreed Conq needed buffs.

*gasps* Color me shocked. Champ entering a thread just to be oppositional to me? Never.

ChampionRuby50g
10-12-2018, 06:48 AM
Provide evidence that clearly shows the forum community agaisnt buffing Conq, and Iíll happily admit Iím wrong and youíre right. Until then I have every right to jump into this thread and disagree with you.

Siegfried-Z
10-12-2018, 08:36 AM
You can already get a guard break against a shield bash miss on prediction. So what are you even complaining about? It's even doable on reaction if you're fast enough. Sorry you can't get a free guard break and heavy every single time you dodge a 500ms attack that only does 13 damage I guess?

There already is an inherent time limit on the zone. You either run out of stamina and if you have revenge you run out of revenge. What's the difficulty here? Zone takes an extreme amount of stamina so it's not like you're waiting some insane amount of time. And if Conqueror doesn't use his cancel and lets the zone drop naturally there's a large amount of recovery time that you can easily get a guard break in.

Most of the rest of your post is just the same nonsense repeated so there's not much use reply to it.
.

I've tried to be kind in my previus answer to see if you're able to discuss noramlly but clearly you don't. That can explain why you're trash talking with everyone.. You say to Championruby he is always against you but how to not be ? Kidding me...

This 500ms attack that deal 13 dmg as you said is a nightmare for most of the community... first, this is a 500ms BASH, not an attack + it can be used any time in the Conq chain (opening SB, Softfeint SB, following an attack SB) with nice timing variations which makes it 95% of the times not possible to GB.

And your explanations about his Zone are just an entire joke, are you saying Conq can't Hold on his Zone for a long time ? OOS/OOR is a normal limit then ..?

You talk about my integrity, but the fact you're not able to see why people have troubles with Conq in any way shows you've got no integrity at all yourself.

Sweaty_Sock
10-12-2018, 09:02 AM
ArchDukeInstinct

1) a good conq will light on a missed SB resulting in a failed GB & taking damage/stamina damage
2) his zone can be abused on reaction - its an attack so can't be GB'd, carries superior block & is faster than many feint windows so can be thrown into attacks with huge success (costing hp & stamina damage to the interrupted/blocked party...)
3) his zone can go for far too long - if should have a set number of swings with the option to cancel after each swing (like a warlord, nobu, kensei etc.).

I suspect the all guard was thrown into zone due to a bug in his zone in dominion following the unlock tech patch causing zone to turn into charging heavy when a minion hit you.. its now great for minions but even better for players...

I got my conq to rep 17 then had to park him once the rework dropped (hes still rep 17) as it was far too powerful and winning felt utterly cheap.

EvoX.
10-12-2018, 03:01 PM
Too bad, seems like it ain't happening. I'm quite surprised how the dev team actually have the insight to realize nerfing SB and calling it a day isn't a solution, which a large majority of this forum apparently lack. I think they're planning more changes for the hero, but they won't be revealed any time soon.

Anyway, Conqueror is not as oppressive as people make him out to be. Definitely not compared to a Warden, at least.

ArchDukeInstinct
10-13-2018, 02:56 AM
Provide evidence that clearly shows the forum community agaisnt buffing Conq, and I’ll happily admit I’m wrong and you’re right. Until then I have every right to jump into this thread and disagree with you.

I'm not going to waste my time scouring this forum's history of last year.


I've tried to be kind in my previus answer to see if you're able to discuss noramlly but clearly you don't. That can explain why you're trash talking with everyone.. You say to Championruby he is always against you but how to not be ? Kidding me...

What did I even do to you? All I said was I wasn't going to reply to parts that were just repeated nonsense. Like how am I supposed to reply to your nonsense that nobody is going to complain about Conqueror because the Wu Lin characters are coming soon?


This 500ms attack that deal 13 dmg as you said is a nightmare for most of the community... first, this is a 500ms BASH, not an attack + it can be used any time in the Conq chain (opening SB, Softfeint SB, following an attack SB) with nice timing variations which makes it 95% of the times not possible to GB.

First off, there's no soft feint into shield bash. That's a soft feint from heavy into a shield uppercut which is an 800ms move. Shield bashes that follow a light or heavy are shield bash mixups which is a 700ms move. This just confirms how clueless you are.


And your explanations about his Zone are just an entire joke, are you saying Conq can't Hold on his Zone for a long time ? OOS/OOR is a normal limit then ..?

Well relative to other classes's zones, sure, it's the only one that can be sustained for a brief period of time. It's also the only zone that does 5-10 damage at 600ms for each swing so why shouldn't it? The move's intended purpose is to delay groups of opponents to give more time for your teammates to arrive. So uhhh sorry you ganked a Conqueror and they delayed with zone attack until a teammate arrived and you were forced to fight a fair fight I guess? I thought you liked a challenge?

But yeah, Zone is not powerful for how long it can be held, it's powerful as an option select and even I agree it should grant a light parry.

This is the problem I've been alluding to this whole time, you're not authentic at all so you don't actually know the real reasons why people have an issue with shield bash or the zone, you just know they talk about the two and these were your best attempts to figure out the reason why they're significant.


You talk about my integrity, but the fact you're not able to see why people have troubles with Conq in any way shows you've got no integrity at all yourself.

Dude, you're bringing up shield bash mixup and the ability to sustain the zone attack, 2 things that virtually nobody has an issue with. You're so out of touch and need to get a grip.


1) a good conq will light on a missed SB resulting in a failed GB & taking damage/stamina damage

And a good opponent would just exploit that as a fairly easy, predictable parry. Also as far as I know, the light can't be branched into before the recovery ends, so it would actually add onto the window to be guard broken because of the minimal yet still existent startup. However, that's for a standard shield bash, for a shield bash mixup, you can clearly transition into a light early as is confirmed by patch notes but shield bash mixup sucks because it's 700ms and despite the name doesn't really have any mixup potential unlike a forward bash.


I suspect the all guard was thrown into zone due to a bug in his zone in dominion following the unlock tech patch causing zone to turn into charging heavy when a minion hit you.. its now great for minions but even better for players...

I'm not sure what you're on about here.


I got my conq to rep 17 then had to park him once the rework dropped (hes still rep 17) as it was far too powerful and winning felt utterly cheap.

Well why didn't you just refrain from using shield bash then? Oh that's right! Because shield bash is the only competitively viable offense Conqueror has.