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Spectre_198
10-07-2018, 07:42 PM
Ill start out by stating that I don't think revenge should be removed but it does need a serious rework asap.

Revenge was an added feature to allow an outnumbered player to have a chance to win the gank or survive until friendlies arrive; This is how it SHOULD work. I cant recall how many times I've been getting 1v2-4 and one of the players ganking got revenge while I didn't even have my meter half full. Of course there has been many times where even in 1v1 situations my opponent gets revenge. Players getting revenge nearly back to back is also ridiculous.

One major change that could fix the issue: Remove revenge builds or at least the "Revenge gained" stat on weapon guards. Everyone should gain revenge at the same rate, only increasing the rate as more opponents attack; Buffing the amount of revenge gained changes this rate almost as if 1 person was being attacked by two opponents when actually in a 1v1. You'd think this would be an exploit when in reality it was designed into the game. The existence of revenge builds make nearly any other build obsolete seeing as how getting revenge doubles your overall health, defense, and attack capabilities.

There are plenty of other issues with the game; After playing 500+ hours since launch, I can honestly say this is the worst state the game has ever been in, and even the Pro level gamers like Kenzo and Illest Truth would agree.There are many characters that have been unbalanced since they were released or reworked (Looking at Cents, LB, Conqs, and Warlords) and haven't been touched since, despite the pleas from the community that they need fixing. Next to that theres light spam meta as well (a killer on console). Im not naive enough to think this one change would fix the game entirely but I do believe it would be a step in the right direction and would show all of us that the devs are actually listening.

Illyrian_King
10-07-2018, 07:50 PM
Revenge REALLY REALLY needs some work. The devs "reworked" it multiple times, but still it's broken for 1 reason. I will just copy/paste, what I wrote in another thread:


Revenge is definitely an annoying thing. Bashes give waaaaay to much revenge. It's almost a disadvantage to use them.
Often in Dominion I face 1vs1 situations and after 2-3 block shoves my enemy goes revenge O.o. WTF
My block shove is not even a confirmed light, but a 50/50.
If bashes give much revenge in ganks, it's all okay but not in 1vs1. Screw it!
Assassins have fast lights and heavies have bashes. Fast lights give almost no revenge but bashes almost overflow the revenge bar.

The problem is, how the system does not destinguish between certain bashes. A simple block shove 50/50 with potential 15dmg gives the same amount of revenge like a fully charged 40dmg guaranteed shoulder bash top heavy.

Btw.: Revenge builds will go with Season 8, as the whole stat system will be replaced with a perk system. If i am not wrong, there is no revenge perk. The problem lies only on bashes. I can't find the patch notes of the last big revenge balance, but bashes give an incredible amount of revenge even in 1vs1.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
10-07-2018, 08:02 PM
I think revenge is fine. If anything light spam should give more revenge. If you play a heavy and get mowed down by light spam in 15 second because it's unreactable on console the game doesn't make sense.

Illyrian_King
10-08-2018, 10:14 AM
I think revenge is fine. If anything light spam should give more revenge. If you play a heavy and get mowed down by light spam in 15 second because it's unreactable on console the game doesn't make sense.

In other words it's not fine ^^


Also depite of that, as long as people get revenge in 1vs1 and heavier classes can't effort a single bash because it feeds revenge, it's not fine.

Revenge should just be an anti-ganking tool.

Charmzzz
10-08-2018, 10:42 AM
In other words it's not fine ^^


Also depite of that, as long as people get revenge in 1vs1 and heavier classes can't effort a single bash because it feeds revenge, it's not fine.

Revenge should just be an anti-ganking tool.

I am with you on the anti-ganking tool. But I refuse to let the Revenge-Gain from Bashes to be lower until Conq's SB is made punishable by everyone and receives a general timing nerf. Getting SB-Bash-Guardbreak-Mixup spammed to death is as annoying as a "Light-Spammer", but without the opportunity to punish it.

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-08-2018, 03:49 PM
I am with you on the anti-ganking tool. But I refuse to let the Revenge-Gain from Bashes to be lower until Conq's SB is made punishable by everyone and receives a general timing nerf. Getting SB-Bash-Guardbreak-Mixup spammed to death is as annoying as a "Light-Spammer", but without the opportunity to punish it.

Learn to sidestep. Its not that hard.

Siegfried-Z
10-08-2018, 04:44 PM
Learn to sidestep. Its not that hard.

So with a 60% win rate in duel from the top 2,5% players for the Conq, i gess a lot of people have to "Learn to sidestep" don't you think ?

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-08-2018, 05:08 PM
So with a 60% win rate in duel from the top 2,5% players for the Conq, i gess a lot of people have to "Learn to sidestep" don't you think ?

Yes, and you guys better get cracking.

Mofos will pull one stat and act like they are filled with a wealth of knowledge. Thats like saying you know who the best QB in the NFL is because one has the highest QB rating.

Siegfried-Z
10-08-2018, 05:58 PM
Yes, and you guys better get cracking.

Mofos will pull one stat and act like they are filled with a wealth of knowledge. Thats like saying you know who the best QB in the NFL is because one has the highest QB rating.

So what is your purpose ? You disagree but on the other side put absolutly no argues or opinion.. would you try to say conq is fine ?
Anyway, stats shows the exact same thing two season straight, so you're just talking with no argue against facts.

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-08-2018, 06:08 PM
So what is your purpose ? You disagree but on the other side put absolutly no argues or opinion.. would you try to say conq is fine ?
Anyway, stats shows the exact same thing two season straight, so you're just talking with no argue against facts.

I dont have to put a reason, or opinion. Unless you would like to have a real conversation. Because as of right now Conq is fine to me. I used him prebuff, you can look at my post history I never wanted a buff. But now that he has gotten one its the other characters that should be retooled. Not the other way around. I swear it must be because hes my main, but it makes zero difference who I use when I face him, he doesnt beat me. So to me, in my experiences, yes, he is perfectly fine. But if they want to slow his SB, cool. But he does in fact need it. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional.

Stats may show he wins more than any other character, that still doesnt make him OP. They can show it for 30 seasons straight, that still does not make him OP. One move does not make something unstoppable.

Illyrian_King
10-08-2018, 06:26 PM
I am with you on the anti-ganking tool. But I refuse to let the Revenge-Gain from Bashes to be lower until Conq's SB is made punishable by everyone and receives a general timing nerf. Getting SB-Bash-Guardbreak-Mixup spammed to death is as annoying as a "Light-Spammer", but without the opportunity to punish it.

The systen just needs to differ between every single bash and give a fair amount of revenge. Now i can't perform a block shove 50/50 (on pc even reactable) with potential 15dmg, without fearing to turn my enemy into a super-saiyan.

A fully charged Warden shoulder bash with guaranteed 40dmg top heavy, should give something, but not a simple block shove in such amounts.

THE_MAD_KlNG
10-08-2018, 09:34 PM
Let's stay on topic people. I agree with the original post. A Bash gives more revenge than it should.

Spectre_198
10-09-2018, 12:47 AM
Good, its still unknown to me why revenge became such an issue as of late. Of course i didn't read the patch notes for the prior updates but i cant imagine they'd change revenge to make it worse but who knows? For Honor devs have weird tendencies

GayForShugoki
10-09-2018, 02:26 AM
Revenge builds will vanish when Marching Fire releases. Thank God. Now you only have to worry about revenge feats, but idk anyone who takes them as they're useless and it's only like, 25% revenge extra in a 1v1, not enough to proc it.

Charmzzz
10-09-2018, 07:38 AM
Learn to sidestep. Its not that hard.

Which phrase in "SB-Bash-Guardbreak-Mixup" did you not understand? If I sidestep as PK e.g. he gets a free GB on me because it is a mixup. Most Conqs just dodge forward and then mixup if they go for the Bash or the GB. When he is close to you the time to react is veeery tiny, so if you sidestep on prediction you are f*cked. If you dont - free SB for the Conq. If you dodge side attack - free parry for the Conq.

Siegfried-Z
10-09-2018, 09:43 AM
I dont have to put a reason, or opinion. Unless you would like to have a real conversation. Because as of right now Conq is fine to me. I used him prebuff, you can look at my post history I never wanted a buff. But now that he has gotten one its the other characters that should be retooled. Not the other way around. I swear it must be because hes my main, but it makes zero difference who I use when I face him, he doesnt beat me. So to me, in my experiences, yes, he is perfectly fine. But if they want to slow his SB, cool. But he does in fact need it. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional.

Stats may show he wins more than any other character, that still doesnt make him OP. They can show it for 30 seasons straight, that still does not make him OP. One move does not make something unstoppable.

Ok then i finally understand why your position ..
Anyway, it is always easier to fight agasint a char while he is your main.. a lot has troubles with Kensei, but as a Kensei main i can beat High level kensei with many char as i know him very well. It help a lot.

But wow, your last sentence is magic man : it's like saying we can proove 100 times a Yamaha MT 10 gonna won a straight speed race against a Yamaha MT 07, it doesn't mean she is faster .. can't believe i just read this .