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BeefCakeBundy
10-04-2018, 06:47 AM
I don't think Valkyrie should be able to anim cancel all of her moves, not to mention its super easy for her to start her combo by parrying.
She gets to put peeps on the ground like the Cent, for some auto damage (nobody should have this imo). I think she has to many tools, her attacks are super fast and then she gets to have area moves as if her SPEAR is a sword, you cant swing a spear horizontal like that

Too many characters are too annoying to fight like:
Cent
Conqueror
Orochi
Shaman
Berserker
Shinobi
Valkyrie

DefiledDragon
10-04-2018, 10:05 AM
You totally can swing a spear like that, just FYI.

SangLong524
10-04-2018, 11:31 AM
i think if everyone is equally annoying, then it's normal. You knows, common sense.

ChampionRuby50g
10-04-2018, 11:35 AM
i think if everyone is equally annoying, then it's normal. You knows, common sense.

So if a lot of things annoy you, they all suddenly stop been annoying and become normal? What kind of logic is this?

SangLong524
10-04-2018, 11:43 AM
So if a lot of things annoy you, they all suddenly stop been annoying and become normal? What kind of logic is this?
'cause it's the norm? The point is not whether or not they stop being annoying. its is normal because everyone is the same, equally annoying. nothing is out of ordinary.
erhh, if that is confusing to you, maybe you can start research the term "conformity" . it may shed some light.
I don't dispute OP. I eat enough top light finishers already to know the feeling.I don't get swept off my feet that often though.

Erhanninja
10-05-2018, 03:58 AM
She isnít broken she is pure abuse. Not sure which one is worse Warden or Valk.

Syn.ASUR
10-05-2018, 04:03 AM
i dont get the reasoning behind this. just coz you cant understand how to counter that character it annoys you?? plus even if it annoys you it just doesnt mean that they need to rework her or any character based on your standing.

get gud dont complain

Syn.ASUR
10-05-2018, 04:04 AM
i dont get the reasoning behind this. just coz you cant understand how to counter that character it annoys you?? plus even if it annoys you it just doesnt mean that they need to rework her or any character based on your standing.

get gud dont complain

Corentin10111
10-05-2018, 08:32 AM
i dont get the reasoning behind this. just coz you cant understand how to counter that character it annoys you?? plus even if it annoys you it just doesnt mean that they need to rework her or any character based on your standing.

get gud dont complain

Many players think the valk is too strong now but you don't get the reasoning behind this.. It is probably too comfortable to re-think your standings when the balancing suits your valk.

Syn.ASUR
10-05-2018, 03:12 PM
Many players think the valk is too strong now but you don't get the reasoning behind this.. It is probably too comfortable to re-think your standings when the balancing suits your valk.

ok lemme provide reason for my stand.

Valks can soft fient to bash which can be easily dodged and punished with gb, valks lights are fast sure but dont do much damage and can be blocked easily, whichever direction she dodges her light come from there so easy parry.

valk sweep is bad since it effects team mates as well and can be easily dodged and punished as the recovery on her move is bad. He missed gb recovery is still the same as before which isnt a good thing. heavy from top are faster than heavies from side. gb and headbutt isnt a viable option anymore. her all guard sheild ability is very situational and not very good as he animation makes it so she goes back first.

Syn.ASUR
10-05-2018, 03:16 PM
Many players think the valk is too strong now but you don't get the reasoning behind this.. It is probably too comfortable to re-think your standings when the balancing suits your valk.

There is a huge difference between broken and strong, she sits in a better position now than before, but that doesn't mean she's too strong. She still has her flaws like any other character.

Jacques-Le-Coq
10-05-2018, 03:32 PM
Valks can soft fient to bash which can be easily dodged and punished with gb Not quite so easily if she chains her light after the missed bash which will catch you during gb, that soft feint, is quite fast and not "Easy" to react to.

Syn.ASUR
10-05-2018, 05:00 PM
Not quite so easily if she chains her light after the missed bash which will catch you during gb, that soft feint, is quite fast and not "Easy" to react to.

sure its fast its not broken, since its expected. its 50-50 either let heavy land which is bad since can be parried or go for bash which can be dodged. light + bash if you block light you can dodge easily after a light you know either valk player will go for light or heavy to bash then light then sweep. if you know this is gonna come i think you can or anyone can counter it

Goat_of_Vermund
10-05-2018, 05:14 PM
The bash guarantees only a light attack, I think if you dodge early, you get the gb right or not (though so early that the heavy might track you if you guessed wrong). If you dodge it late, there are two options: 1. You gb and if she did not follow it up, you get a gb, if she did, she hits with a light. 2. You stand still, if she follows it up with a light, that's a free light parry.

Siegfried-Z
10-05-2018, 05:35 PM
Sorry guys but Valk isnt OP or broken.
She is good, strong now yes but not too much as Warden or Conq.

Yes Her SB mix up us fast, is easy to access, is an amazing opener etc

But dont forget valk is only really strong in duel. In 4v4 devs already said stats currently show she is un the middle of the pack.

Why ? Because she does really low dmg, she often sweep allies while aptemting to sweep opponents, she has assassin health pool, she give a lot of revenge with her Bash. . And dont forget Valk is among the 3 only char of the whole game To not have any HA or UB with PK and Nobu.

Plus, her rework remoove from her kit the full block and knock down from shield tackle and delete the headbutt. ..

Saying she is OP just because you guys have hard time with sb mix up isnt honest.

Sorry but the problem comes from a lack of skills.

bannex19
10-05-2018, 05:45 PM
The valk and warden have funny things going on with them. Wardens (at least ai) can forward dodge out of a ledge regardless of how close you are to it. Valks in pvp can 3 shot light kill somebody. Not sure if it's a bug and i wish i had video but on ps4 my warlord went from full to dead in a 3 light combo.

Valks also have buggy animations, late indicators and extended range to make it all worse.

These are just my personal experiences fighting against her, she's really strong. The sweep knocking teammates down is fine but i think other hero abilities of the same fashion should do that... would make 4v4 less cc spam

Siegfried-Z
10-05-2018, 05:54 PM
The valk and warden have funny things going on with them. Wardens (at least ai) can forward dodge out of a ledge regardless of how close you are to it. Valks in pvp can 3 shot light kill somebody. Not sure if it's a bug and i wish i had video but on ps4 my warlord went from full to dead in a 3 light combo.

Valks also have buggy animations, late indicators and extended range to make it all worse.

These are just my personal experiences fighting against her, she's really strong. The sweep knocking teammates down is fine but i think other hero abilities of the same fashion should do that... would make 4v4 less cc spam

Well maybe she has her 3rd feet activate which buff her dmg and fourth one too which debuff deeply your defense. .

Both are not flashy at all sometimes you saw it once you're already getting hit.

But these 3rd and 4th feats combo are very strong . I use them and then yes one light can easy remoove at least a full bar of health.

But killing a warlord from full health with 3 light, even with these 2 feats is just simply impossible.

UbiInsulin
10-05-2018, 06:48 PM
Just some context from the recent State of Balance article (https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-335553-16/state-of-balance-season-6-recap):



Valkyrie
Valkyrie has been bottom of the pack for a while (45% Win Rate in Season 5 and Season 6). She just received a rework in Season 7 and while it’s too early to make a strong note about where she stands, the earliest indicators were that it had a positive effect on her viability. The early data had her at 54% Win Rate, below Conqueror but above the rest of the pack. We’ll see where she will be as more data comes in - we are still keeping a close eye on the character.


Post-rework, the team definitely tracks heroes closely. Thanks everyone for your feedback!

Goat_of_Vermund
10-05-2018, 06:57 PM
Sharpen blade can do that against low debuff resistance. Sharpen blade is broken, but not just on valk, but on everything.

Siegfried-Z
10-05-2018, 07:39 PM
Just some context from the recent State of Balance article (https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-335553-16/state-of-balance-season-6-recap):



Post-rework, the team definitely tracks heroes closely. Thanks everyone for your feedback!

In the S6 data comments it has also been said she is in the middle of the pack in 4v4 ;)

Knight_Raime
10-06-2018, 03:23 AM
I don't think Valkyrie should be able to anim cancel all of her moves, not to mention its super easy for her to start her combo by parrying.
She gets to put peeps on the ground like the Cent, for some auto damage (nobody should have this imo). I think she has to many tools, her attacks are super fast and then she gets to have area moves as if her SPEAR is a sword, you cant swing a spear horizontal like that

Too many characters are too annoying to fight like:
Cent
Conqueror
Orochi
Shaman
Berserker
Shinobi
Valkyrie


Valk can only soft feint her heavy into shield crush and the second hit of her zone into shield crush. She's got comparatively less soft feint options than a handful of heros.
Her parry is not different mechanically compared to any other hero. so "easy to start her combos after parry" is a false statement.
Her sweep is only accessible at the end of a chain now compared to before where it was either at the end of a chain or after shield crush. It's the same speed as old sweep and doesn't have the nice delay window it had before. And the sweep if dodged is GBable by anyone even if you're OOS. Comparing it to cent's cutscene combo is a terrible comparison simply due to the fact that you can avoid it and punish her harshly for it. Once cent's starts you can't get out of it. And your punish on him for stopping him from starting it is a lot less.

Her attack speed ranges from average to poor barring the 400ms top light that can only come out mid combo. not at the start or end of a combo. Spears are more than just poking weapons. I'd suggest you look up some actual fighting done with proffessionals. As for your list it seems you more or less struggle with heros that are decently fast or focus around feint/soft feints. Which leads me to believe you have poor/sub par reaction times. Valk isn't broken. She doesn't even hit A tier in duels and her team play got worse compared to what she used to be.


Many players think the valk is too strong now but you don't get the reasoning behind this.. It is probably too comfortable to re-think your standings when the balancing suits your valk.


The only people who find Valk too strong are people who can't handle basic decent speed attacks. If you look at the competitive communitie's tier list you will see that she's not considered strong by players who are actually great at the game. Maybe you should get of your high horse about your opinion and actually go learn the game from these people. You might actually get better and complain less.


Not quite so easily if she chains her light after the missed bash which will catch you during gb, that soft feint, is quite fast and not "Easy" to react to.

Valk and her opponent both have to make a read after shield crush is dodged. If she goes straight for a light and her opponent knows this it's parried. So she can't just throw it everytime it's dodged. (especially when dodge attacks are a thing.) Likewise If I dodge the shield crush I have to know she's going to follow up with a light. If she goes for a raw heavy i'll miss my timing and eat the hit. She can also que another heavy but soft feint that into crush again. Or heavy hard feint into GB in attempts to catch the parry attempt. Either way. Shield crush isn't OP or even strong. it's just okay.

Velentix
10-06-2018, 04:12 AM
knight raime is exactly right on this, in general I'd say valk is ok, she's actually at quite the disadvantage in a lot of situations, for example her vs a turtle. as long as you can reliably block lights you shut down all of her kit but her shield bash, which if it connects can only guarantee a light (if its not parried). If it is parried or if valk doesn't go for the light and her shield bash is dodged this = free gb to heavy, considering how low her damage out put vs how little health she has, she is actually quite the high risk low reward character. dodge her shield bash and parry to gb or just gb, you only need 3-4 hits to kill her.

Siegfried-Z
10-06-2018, 09:02 AM
Happy To see others really looking smartly at Her kit and not screaming for OP for a SB mix up only !
Thanks ! Knight and Velentis

NHLGoldenKnight
10-07-2018, 06:04 PM
I wouldn't agree on spear sweep to be available only at the end of chain. On multiple occasions, when Valk misses second hit or I dodge it, she can still perform spear sweep which is imo, wrong. She should be awarded with spear sweep+heavy only if she connects her chain, not if she doesn't.

Also, not sure if it applies to Valk only, but since rework I am constantly getting hit with side lights even when my block stance is already in correct position. Similar to how Kensei side goes so many times through obvious block, same happens with Valk, at least from my experience.

Knight_Raime
10-07-2018, 08:50 PM
I wouldn't agree on spear sweep to be available only at the end of chain. On multiple occasions, when Valk misses second hit or I dodge it, she can still perform spear sweep which is imo, wrong. She should be awarded with spear sweep+heavy only if she connects her chain, not if she doesn't.

Also, not sure if it applies to Valk only, but since rework I am constantly getting hit with side lights even when my block stance is already in correct position. Similar to how Kensei side goes so many times through obvious block, same happens with Valk, at least from my experience.

She can only initiate sweep at the end of the chain or after a throw. By the end of a chain I mean instead of her final attack in whatever combo she does she inputs sweep instead.
This is fairly common format speak for this game so I assumed people already understood this. My apologies for not being more clear.

And plenty of heros use whiffing to do things. If attacks had to connect the gameplay would be far more stale since things are very reactable. And blocking lights in most cases ends combos. Her sweep isn't delayable. So rather than asking the devs to make the game easier for you instead you should learn the hero so you are aware of her capabilities and can learn to spot them/counter them.

What you're describing there is 1 of 2 things. Either your block was late. Or lag. Guard standard or otherwise is not bugged. When you block late it can look like your guard was in the right spot. But you're still off timing wise.

NHLGoldenKnight
10-07-2018, 10:26 PM
Well I am not late on block for other heroes, so it is very strange that Kensei and now Valk, regularly hit me through block that was already there. It doesn't happen with other fast heroes such as PK.

Siegfried-Z
10-08-2018, 09:07 AM
Well I am not late on block for other heroes, so it is very strange that Kensei and now Valk, regularly hit me through block that was already there. It doesn't happen with other fast heroes such as PK.

Putting aside the discussion about Valk herself as i already gave my opinion (Valk isn't OP at all), i have to say you're right on this point.

I'm rep 28 Kensei and 16 Valk. I have to admit while i use side lights after dodge (while changing target) and side light finisher for valk, it goes through guard very often.

I have experimented this playing Kensei myself against others Kensei, i've got hit many many times while i was sure to be blocking in the right direction and on time without any doubts, and there were no lag.

I was surprised my hit on these mooves hit my opponents so often despite this is well known in the game very often Kensei gonna dash and switch for lights in anti Gank situation... Same for Valk lights chain..

As i've seen it myself on both side, i'm pretty sure these mooves are bugged.

Knight_Raime
10-08-2018, 09:45 AM
Well I am not late on block for other heroes, so it is very strange that Kensei and now Valk, regularly hit me through block that was already there. It doesn't happen with other fast heroes such as PK.

If there was something special about either the competitive community would have already picked up on it. Granted there is the occasional thing that slips by them for a bit. But for the most part they usually catch things involving "guaranteed" hits. So if your blocking is on point then it has to be connection. The only other thing I could think of would be hit stun. As each move has it's own hitstun value and no one has combed through the game to figure out them all. I would get a friend and try to replicate it on both heros. then record it and post it up on the competitive sub if you do find something.

Corentin10111
10-08-2018, 11:39 AM
I never said that valk was op. What i say is that she is very strong and versatile. Enough to easily understand why many people complain about her and why some think she is op. I get people who defend her current state but people who want to see her nerfed as well.
"she can be easily dodged and punished as the recovery on her move is bad" i disagree on this, she have good mixups (swipe, soft feint into Gb or shield bash..) and her combos can seem endless when played by good players.
I can only talk about ps4 btw.

Sweaty_Sock
10-08-2018, 12:31 PM
A SB feint counts to combo... you can light after to beat a gb on dodge, thats her only real issue ( no punish on the only correct responose to a fast softfeint)

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-08-2018, 05:09 PM
People here complain about every character. Its so annoying.

Knight_Raime
10-08-2018, 08:46 PM
I never said that valk was op. What i say is that she is very strong and versatile. Enough to easily understand why many people complain about her and why some think she is op. I get people who defend her current state but people who want to see her nerfed as well.
"she can be easily dodged and punished as the recovery on her move is bad" i disagree on this, she have good mixups (swipe, soft feint into Gb or shield bash..) and her combos can seem endless when played by good players.
I can only talk about ps4 btw.


And I've pointed out why she isn't as strong as some people believe. You can't disagree about my sweep comment you tried to quote. The recovery on her sweep is so long that someone who is out of stamina can GB her and she can't counter gb it. She can't do any mix ups with sweep because sweep is at the end of her chain and you can't feint/soft feint her sweep into anything else. This makes it an extremely predictable move. She also does not have a soft feint into GB. The only soft feint she has is into shield crush. Which she can do from any heavy or the second half of her zone. Her combos are not difficult to understand if she's using shield crush. as shield crush is the second hit in a chain. Meaning if she follows up with a light after shield crush she can only do a light finisher or sweep. I play on xbox.


A SB feint counts to combo... you can light after to beat a gb on dodge, thats her only real issue ( no punish on the only correct responose to a fast softfeint)

Yes her shield crush counts as a second hit in any combo she has. If someone dodges your shield crush you can't always follow up with a light. Because that's predictable and is parried. If shield crush is dodged both her opponent AND her have to make a read on the situation. you can't let a light fly on reaction to seeing their GB attempt. The timing doesn't allow for that. Dodge into GB isn't a good punish for crush anyway. Because she has a few different things she can do after crush that would mess up the timing. Your best bet is to use a dodge attack if you have one on reaction to shield crush. Next best thing is to react to what she does after bash. If she does nothing then yes. You don't punish her. But she got nothing as well. so the fight resets to neutral.