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View Full Version : Out of lock grabbing moves are cancerous



PepsiBeastin
10-02-2018, 05:57 PM
They need to be changed in a way that makes them much less abusable. These two lawbringers did this the entire match, if you got stuck once (which, when they use the poke in FULL SPRINT they magically boost toward you, EVEN IF YOU'RE FASTER) you're instantly dead.

The easy solution is to both remove ALL TRACKING on sprint attacks, and require you to be sprinting for around 5 seconds before you can actually use a sprint move.


https://youtu.be/zIE48gOSXgg

How is the tracking in this clip alright at all?


https://youtu.be/nWNdtJFs9hQ

As a bonus, I'm throwing in this clip from the same match, showcasing the quality gameplay we paid $60 for.


https://youtu.be/6gGjWhrbDbg


I'm too annoyed atm to bother with getting higher quality clips. This kind of **** is why people are constantly quitting this game and I don't blame them. It isn't enjoyable in the least to just be this helpless.

yfkutfui
10-02-2018, 06:12 PM
Boy that's harsh, LB's are pretty cancerous for sure, i hear some people complain that they need a buff and i just scratch my head?, they carry more bombs than a B52 have a very large health pool and spam the **** out of the pierce

Illyrian_King
10-02-2018, 07:15 PM
Lol do you really propose to nerf LB?

He and Goki are the weakest Heroes if you really need to lock on them. All their strength in 4vs4 comes from the fact, that people often fail to react properly during the heat of battle. Their bombs may be too much, but don't tell me that a Lawbringer should even lose his impale ability ... because no other hero has insane tracking on cetrain moves :rolleyes:

Btw you play Shinobi, which already has the most annoying dodges of the whole cast ... why not complain about that?

PepsiBeastin
10-02-2018, 07:49 PM
Lol do you really propose to nerf LB?

He and Goki are the weakest Heroes if you really need to lock on them. All their strength in 4vs4 comes from the fact, that people often fail to react properly during the heat of battle. Their bombs may be too much, but don't tell me that a Lawbringer should even lose his impale ability ... because no other hero has insane tracking on cetrain moves :rolleyes:

Btw you play Shinobi, which already has the most annoying dodges of the whole cast ... why not complain about that?

So in simpler terms, "Hurr durr lawbringer is weak without out of lock abuse so don't touch it"

Arekonator
10-02-2018, 07:53 PM
LB gank with impale is strong, but its not abusable in 1v1. At all. Or in simpler terms "hurr durr nerf LB because i cant block left."

Kryltic
10-02-2018, 08:05 PM
Just because something that isn't amazing or abusive in 1vs1 isn't an excuse to allow it in 4vs4.

The idea should be to keep a character fairly balanced in both areas of gaming.

DefiledDragon
10-02-2018, 09:01 PM
I'm becoming more and more convinced that the games mechanics are designed to facilitate salt mining. The lead designers attitude during WD's adds to that hypothesis. I think he in particular enjoys the fact that this game winds people right the **** up. Of course, this is all conjecture on my part and they do say to never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

DefiledDragon
10-02-2018, 09:02 PM
Also, serves you right etc... etc...

ChampionRuby50g
10-02-2018, 09:26 PM
The tracking in that second clip looks pretty normal, I mean you are the one who unlocked and tried to run away in a situation when you should of stayed locked on. The Lb isnít even that far away when he impalas you, so thatís ones really just on you.

Knight_Raime
10-02-2018, 10:02 PM
All the clips sans the bonus one seem fine to me. First one was unfortunate chaining of impale. But imbalances like these happen when you're allowed to use multiple of the same hero on one team. Second clip was on you for not staying locked on. Could have easily just blocked his impale attempt setting him (at best) a sliver of stamina. And at worst no stamina if he expended any prior to attempting to impale you. Third clip is obv annoying but really just included here to bash.

impale is really only abnoxious because it can be given off of any parry which leads to 50 damage. that parry should go.

DefiledDragon
10-02-2018, 11:01 PM
All the clips sans the bonus one seem fine to me. First one was unfortunate chaining of impale. But imbalances like these happen when you're allowed to use multiple of the same hero on one team. Second clip was on you for not staying locked on. Could have easily just blocked his impale attempt setting him (at best) a sliver of stamina. And at worst no stamina if he expended any prior to attempting to impale you. Third clip is obv annoying but really just included here to bash.

impale is really only abnoxious because it can be given off of any parry which leads to 50 damage. that parry should go.

I've played LB a bit and I must be missing something. How does the impale off a parry lead to 50 damage?

Arekonator
10-02-2018, 11:33 PM
I've played LB a bit and I must be missing something. How does the impale off a parry lead to 50 damage?

Impale of parry does 20 dmg (as oposed to 15 from running impale) and because of how far it carries the victim, its really easy to get wallsplat to be followed up with top heavy for 30 into either 500ms delayed light onto stunned target or shove. Or long arm into side heavy to allow your teammates get extra hits in. 50dmg total is minimum, as you are likely to get more.

DefiledDragon
10-03-2018, 12:07 AM
Impale of parry does 20 dmg (as oposed to 15 from running impale) and because of how far it carries the victim, its really easy to get wallsplat to be followed up with top heavy for 30 into either 500ms delayed light onto stunned target or shove. Or long arm into side heavy to allow your teammates get extra hits in. 50dmg total is minimum, as you are likely to get more.

Ok, well while that's true, it's situational damage and isn't guaranteed. You could make a similar argument against Cent's parry to GB, given that if there's a wall nearby it's wombo combo time or if there's a ledge/spikes nearby it's 100-0 time. Maybe reduce the carry range a tad, but then that would reduce his ability to isolate opponents in 4 v 4 furballs. Maybe the range of the impale from a parry could be reduced but leave his charge impale as it is. To be honest, I don't see LB getting any significant changes based off what the designers have said, although I wasn't expecting Warden to get any either and they pulled his new SB and VC out of their hats so who knows?

Arekonator
10-03-2018, 12:52 AM
Ok, well while that's true, it's situational damage and isn't guaranteed. You could make a similar argument against Cent's parry to GB, given that if there's a wall nearby it's wombo combo time or if there's a ledge/spikes nearby it's 100-0 time. Maybe reduce the carry range a tad, but then that would reduce his ability to isolate opponents in 4 v 4 furballs. Maybe the range of the impale from a parry could be reduced but leave his charge impale as it is. To be honest, I don't see LB getting any significant changes based off what the designers have said, although I wasn't expecting Warden to get any either and they pulled his new SB and VC out of their hats so who knows?

You are right, it isnt guaranteed. But the range difference between this and cent knee is so massive, that it indeed is much, much easier to land a wallsplat.
As it stands, LB got arguably the best parry rewards in the game atm, which sort of compensates his weakness in other aspects. I can only assume they will tone them down in some way when they try to improve his offense.

DefiledDragon
10-03-2018, 01:03 AM
You are right, it isnt guaranteed. But the range difference between this and cent knee is so massive, that it indeed is much, much easier to land a wallsplat.
As it stands, LB got arguably the best parry rewards in the game atm, which sort of compensates his weakness in other aspects. I can only assume they will tone them down in some way when they try to improve his offense.

If they do make changes to him I sincerely hope he doesn't get the usual "offensive improvements" like 400ms lights or a bash spam mixup. I know he lacks offensive options and is reliant on playing on the counter, but I'll be devo'd if they ruin him with a bad rework.

Illyrian_King
10-03-2018, 01:37 AM
So in simpler terms, "Hurr durr lawbringer is weak without out of lock abuse so don't touch it"

Exactly.

Better a weak hero with a strong tool then a weak hero without a strong tool.

Until he gets a full blown rework, nothing should be nerfed.



Lol so much hypocrysy here ... i have done so many impales and many many many of them didn't wallsplatt, so 50dmg my asss.

People are so ignorant about 50dmg. Heck guys, Shaman's bite does 50dmg, Cent's cutscene does even more, Goki can 1-shot, Highlander's top heavy does 45dmg in one hit. But if Lawbee can do this for a parry or because people fail to block left and actually lands a wallsplatt, people lose their mind. Are you all sane?

Lawbringer is about Parrys. If people get diarrhea for this then please also remove all the things i mentioned above.

Why should Cent get so much reward for a second chain unblockable, Shaman just for a bleed bash, Highlander just for landing a top heavy from defensive stance? Warden gets 40dmg for a fully charged shoulder bash with insane tracking. Ever eaten a light+unblockable OOS knock down punish from a Raider or a fully charged Heavy from Broki? About 2 1/2 healthbars gone ... LB can't do that.

Learn blocking left you noob.

Knight_Raime
10-03-2018, 09:22 AM
Ok, well while that's true, it's situational damage and isn't guaranteed. You could make a similar argument against Cent's parry to GB, given that if there's a wall nearby it's wombo combo time or if there's a ledge/spikes nearby it's 100-0 time. Maybe reduce the carry range a tad, but then that would reduce his ability to isolate opponents in 4 v 4 furballs. Maybe the range of the impale from a parry could be reduced but leave his charge impale as it is. To be honest, I don't see LB getting any significant changes based off what the designers have said, although I wasn't expecting Warden to get any either and they pulled his new SB and VC out of their hats so who knows?

His parry counter to wall splat? I've no way of moving someone towards a wall better than anyone else. Plus you can get impale off of any parry. I can't get a wall splat with any parry counter.
The solution to this problem already exists. Remove the option to do impale outside a running charge. Because currently it's possible off of a parry. Which is the problem.

Illyrian_King
10-03-2018, 12:05 PM
His parry counter to wall splat? I've no way of moving someone towards a wall better than anyone else. Plus you can get impale off of any parry. I can't get a wall splat with any parry counter.
The solution to this problem already exists. Remove the option to do impale outside a running charge. Because currently it's possible off of a parry. Which is the problem.

Yep but please also remove Shaman's bite, Warden's shoulder, Goki's 1-shot, Highlander's kick/grab mix-up, PK's zone and Cent's cutscene. Then I would fully agree with you.

Specialkha
10-03-2018, 12:08 PM
Exactly.

Better a weak hero with a strong tool then a weak hero without a strong tool.

Until he gets a full blown rework, nothing should be nerfed.



Lol so much hypocrysy here ... i have done so many impales and many many many of them didn't wallsplatt, so 50dmg my asss.

People are so ignorant about 50dmg. Heck guys, Shaman's bite does 50dmg, Cent's cutscene does even more, Goki can 1-shot, Highlander's top heavy does 45dmg in one hit. But if Lawbee can do this for a parry or because people fail to block left and actually lands a wallsplatt, people lose their mind. Are you all sane?

Lawbringer is about Parrys. If people get diarrhea for this then please also remove all the things i mentioned above.

Why should Cent get so much reward for a second chain unblockable, Shaman just for a bleed bash, Highlander just for landing a top heavy from defensive stance? Warden gets 40dmg for a fully charged shoulder bash with insane tracking. Ever eaten a light+unblockable OOS knock down punish from a Raider or a fully charged Heavy from Broki? About 2 1/2 healthbars gone ... LB can't do that.

Learn blocking left you noob.

Because Cent UB are easy to parry? Because shaman bite is easy to dodge (and to punish)? While all a LB has to do is to wait for a parry.

Illyrian_King
10-03-2018, 12:16 PM
Because Cent UB are easy to parry? Because shaman bite is easy to dodge (and to punish)? While all a LB has to do is to wait for a parry.

LB still has to parry and needs a wall in front of him.

Warden's shoulder has insane tracking and is a good mix-up with 3 charging levels
Shaman's kit is full of bleeds and lands bite quiet often
Cent's unblockable is strong in 4vs4 and also can ve soft feinted in gb ... wallsplatt --> cutscene

DefiledDragon
10-03-2018, 12:27 PM
His parry counter to wall splat? I've no way of moving someone towards a wall better than anyone else. Plus you can get impale off of any parry. I can't get a wall splat with any parry counter.
The solution to this problem already exists. Remove the option to do impale outside a running charge. Because currently it's possible off of a parry. Which is the problem.

You mean Cent? Doesn't he get a heavy off a heavy parry for 25 damage? Or a guaranteed GB that can lead to all kinds of shenanigans, depending on what's around you (walls/spikes/ledges)?

Tbh I think discussing the removal of one of LB's few options to apply decent damage to his opponent is a bit moot given his lack of any kind of opener. Besides, while mechanically executing a heavy parry isn't difficult, I find as my "skill rating" increases and I'm matched against better opponents, committed heavy attacks become ever more rare as people choose to feint bait for parry's of their own and rarely fall for my feints. You only have to watch any high level video to see that fights generally consist of people feinting heavies at each other and poking each other to death with lights, if they're not exploiting cheese that is.

I wouldn't be against the removal of his impale after parry if they rework the rest of his kit to make him viable, but I'm not keen on the idea of a rework of LB because I'm not a huge fan of the current direction of the game and I fear what they will do to him.

Specialkha
10-03-2018, 12:45 PM
LB still has to parry and needs a wall in front of him.

Warden's shoulder has insane tracking and is a good mix-up with 3 charging levels
Shaman's kit is full of bleeds and lands bite quiet often
Cent's unblockable is strong in 4vs4 and also can ve soft feinted in gb ... wallsplatt --> cutscene

If a shaman land a bite on you, that is your fault, it is easy to dodge. The only thing that is forgivable is that if you are cornered or someone blocked you.

Warden is a top hero for some reason, it needs a nerf for sure.

Cent UB are not that useful in 4v4 because you get interrupted a lot in teamfight due to the lack of HA.

So? LB>parry>wallsplat or ledge. And since you are talking about 4v4, let's not forget he carries as well more bombs than a B52.

ChampionRuby50g
10-03-2018, 01:01 PM
I really wish my LB could carry 8 Harpoon Missiles, 4 Raptor missiles, 51 500 pound bombs and 30 1,000 pound bombs.

Goat_of_Vermund
10-03-2018, 01:30 PM
Shaman bite is easy to dodge? It's 500ms, has insane tracking, very low recovery time on miss, guaranteed on any gb and on light parries I think, and deals insane damage with self heal. Is there really anyone thinking that's weaker than lawbringer's parry spike to a wall with the same damage in total?
If you are parried by a lawbringer with a wall behind you, that's your mistake.

retrobacon74
10-03-2018, 02:09 PM
you must be incredibly stupid to think that lawbringer needs a nerf. first off, his impale ability is just countered by blocking, (even assassin characters can do it so don't complain) which drains his stamina greatly, and drains it entirely by just parrying it, which ins't hard. sure bombs are kinda OP, i'll give you that, however lawbringer has so many things that make him not good, for example, all of his moves are highly reactable. shove is not that hard to dodge, and is uncancelable. plus it's "confirmed light" is not confirmed bc u can dodge out of it. (which means you can get a deflect) plus its hard to play lawbringer aggresively because all of his good attacks are of parrys, so you can't really do anything if somone is turtleing. not to mention, his max punish sux ***.

Alustar.
10-03-2018, 03:16 PM
Shaman bite is easy to dodge? It's 500ms, has insane tracking, very low recovery time on miss, guaranteed on any gb and on light parries I think, and deals insane damage with self heal. Is there really anyone thinking that's weaker than lawbringer's parry spike to a wall with the same damage in total?
If you are parried by a lawbringer with a wall behind you, that's your mistake.

Wrong about everything but the activation time, shamans predators mercy is very easily dodged on reaction, even at melee range. Actually particularly at melee range, since you can either dodge or light tap her out of start up. Her recovery on a whiff is the same as anyone else sans conqueror, so if she misses, that's a free GB for anyone and a free dodge strike from those with the ability.

Goat_of_Vermund
10-03-2018, 03:57 PM
Compared to attacks of similar strenght, it has very good recovery and is insanely fast compared to the longarm, spear sweep, balor's might, demon's embrace etc. This bash has the strongest damage for avarage recovery and speed (basically must read it to succesfully dodge, and sometimes they jump past you out of gb range). It's also feintable I think, and has priority over almost anything. It's only an easy dodge if the shaman is predictable (most of them are, I give you that).

Alustar.
10-03-2018, 06:47 PM
It's also extremely riskier to use in matches comparatively to everything you've just listed, as any exterior attack both friendly or otherwise, will break it with no benefit. The abilities you've listed all will follow through to the end regardless of what happens. It also spent have the most damage. Demons embrace has potential to 1shot a player of the Shugoki is in critical. Most shaman are predictable because the believer itself is very predictable. Yes it is feintable, but that itself is countered with an attack. As you it having priority, no, that simply means your attack was too slow or to fast to hit her in animation, which you are better off attacking her during the start up. Anytime a shaman back steps, you should be ready to dodge or attack quickly.

Goat_of_Vermund
10-04-2018, 09:42 AM
Most of these attacks are interrupted too, maybe apart from demon's embrace. I don't say Shaman is completely unbeatable or the bite is impossible to punish every time (I have written my suggestions for it in your other topic), I just say it's funny how anyone can think this move is weaker than lawbringer's spike parry.

Specialkha
10-04-2018, 10:35 AM
Most of these attacks are interrupted too, maybe apart from demon's embrace. I don't say Shaman is completely unbeatable or the bite is impossible to punish every time (I have written my suggestions for it in your other topic), I just say it's funny how anyone can think this move is weaker than lawbringer's spike parry.

Because you have to hit your opponent with it? While LB just have to parry you? And on PC, parry are not that hard to get.

Charmzzz
10-04-2018, 11:02 AM
Because you have to hit your opponent with it? While LB just have to parry you? And on PC, parry are not that hard to get.

This.

Shaman has to do something to get the Bite and it is punished with a free GB on miss. But LB Parry - Impale? He just sits and waits for that parry to get a free ledge or 50 damage and you cannot do anything except, well, not attack... And don't tell me that ledge or wall splat are rare, boy, where the f*ck are you fighting with LB then... Just stay on ANY capture point and the ledges / walls are nearby for sure. Only the minion zone is a wider area.

Goat_of_Vermund
10-04-2018, 11:40 AM
Getting a parry on a specific place on someone who is not predictable is not an easy task. At least not easier than landing a 500ms bash with 8 meters range on anyone bleeding from anything. Just don't get parried with a wall behind you, that's it. Not that difficult, some heroes have unreactable 400ms lights, others have unblockable bashes (and others are so useless being parried by a lawbringer is the least of their problems. Like other lawbringers).

Charmzzz
10-04-2018, 11:46 AM
Getting a parry on a specific place on someone who is not predictable is not an easy task. At least not easier than landing a 500ms bash with 8 meters range on anyone bleeding from anything. Just don't get parried with a wall behind you, that's it. Not that difficult, some heroes have unreactable 400ms lights, others have unblockable bashes (and others are so useless being parried by a lawbringer is the least of their problems. Like other lawbringers).

"specific place" - the maps are so small, that place is almost anywhere, especially on capture points
"getting a parry is not an easy task" - compared to the Shaman getting first a Bleed in and then using a very predictable and reactable move? I don't think so.
"just don't get parried with a wall behind you" - Answer: just block Shaman bleed Attacks and you are fine
"unreactable 400ms Lights" - it takes 3-4 Lights to get the same damage in as an LB get's from a wall splat (not to talk about ledge...). And all first Lights are 500ms which is easily blockable.

Specialkha
10-04-2018, 12:00 PM
Getting a parry on a specific place on someone who is not predictable is not an easy task. At least not easier than landing a 500ms bash with 8 meters range on anyone bleeding from anything. Just don't get parried with a wall behind you, that's it. Not that difficult, some heroes have unreactable 400ms lights, others have unblockable bashes (and others are so useless being parried by a lawbringer is the least of their problems. Like other lawbringers).

Just do not get bleed on you and you are fine. That's it? Great logic right there!

ChampionRuby50g
10-04-2018, 12:03 PM
I get where Roland is coming from. No doubt the LB parry impale is strong, but heís right on specific places. As an LB who doesnít sit on capture points, when I parry someone youíve got to parry them with the right positioning, there are high odds you may not even hit a wall. So you could be in the right place, but dictating your position when you parry someone isnít easy as combat is always flowing and influenced by other things, like enemy players etc.

If the enemy team has a Nobushi/PK with Shaman and they are in a group communicating, that not so easy task of Shaman getting a bleed in is a hell of a lot easier.

Specialkha
10-04-2018, 12:10 PM
I get where Roland is coming from. No doubt the LB parry impale is strong, but he’s right on specific places. As an LB who doesn’t sit on capture points, when I parry someone you’ve got to parry them with the right positioning, there are high odds you may not even hit a wall. So you could be in the right place, but dictating your position when you parry someone isn’t easy as combat is always flowing and influenced by other things, like enemy players etc.

If the enemy team has a Nobushi/PK with Shaman and they are in a group communicating, that not so easy task of Shaman getting a bleed in is a hell of a lot easier.

Ok, but why aren't you camping the cap zone like most LB do? Like the Shaman/nobushi combo, put the odds in your favor.

Charmzzz
10-04-2018, 12:33 PM
If the enemy team has a Nobushi/PK with Shaman and they are in a group communicating, that not so easy task of Shaman getting a bleed in is a hell of a lot easier.

Fair enough, but what if the LB has a team that communicates as well? Simple GB for free running Impales into Cutscene wall splats... That is even easier to do than applying Bleed, the Shaman get's the Pred Mercy and nobody hits her out of it...

Alustar.
10-04-2018, 01:21 PM
Impaling charge(LB), rushing tackle(raider), balor's might(highlander) are not interrupted by external attacks during animation, maybe during start up, but not when already in execution. Wether from allies or enemies.

Arekonator
10-04-2018, 04:07 PM
Possible solutions for impaling riposte (will be using cent parry counter to compare).

Option 1: make the impale itself deal either no or minimal damage (0-5).Decrease stamina cost to compensate. If you go for impale and miss the wall, you get nothing (while cent parry counter still guarantees uncharged heavy even without wallsplat). If you get the wall splat, you still get 30 dmg top heavy + option to follow up, which is still really good reward from heavy parry. It cuts the damage payoff by ~40%.

Option 2: massively reduce the distance it carries you, which brings it much more in line with centurion - potentialy huge payoff thats much more situational to compensate.


None of that really adresses its ganking strenght. I dont think you can really balance it for both instances without either removing it or making ot behave too diferently depending on the way its initiated (which is something i dont want because its counterintuitive).

Edit: Pretty sure balor might (and all the moves that lead into it) are perfectly interuptable by external hits all the way up untill the moment when that unblockable heavy lands.

Goat_of_Vermund
10-04-2018, 04:32 PM
You don't need nobushi to bleed, all offensive shaman feats deals bleed damage, it's only a problem in 1v1 to bleed with shaman.

For lb impale, you need very specific angles to use the impale, and an almost full stamina bar to don't go exhausted after the top heavy (from all heroes, his is the top heavy with only 30 damage). All heroes have some kind of strong burst, especially in 4v4, his is not unfair. Might be if he wouldn't be so useless in everything else, and it might go with a rework.

bannex19
10-04-2018, 04:47 PM
This is a nonsense thread. The only thing this game needs to remove are self heals that aren't feat based. Turtle meta is dead leave the LB alone he's not even top tier.

Erhanninja
10-05-2018, 03:11 AM
I agree with this thread.

These moves are cheap and cheesy. Doesnít contribute to the quality of the game at all. Instant death moves in 4v4.

We have to have single pick by now but I donít see that happening.

I had so many occasions facing 2 shugo constantly being hugged or 2 LB constantly being impaled. Or 2 raider constant grabbing me. One grabs me he hits and the moment I stand up other one grabs me straight away and worst thing is there is nothing I can do. If they canít do it they go come for another round. There is no cool down nothing no risk so why not.

OhHowSheGoingEh
10-05-2018, 03:42 AM
Lol a Shinobi player whining about out of lock grabbing. You can sit outside of of someone's veiw and spam your ranged moves completely safe. You have a heat seeking slide kick with a 90% hit rate that is also safe to I may add (at least I've never seen it punished)
Did you know you can simply block his impaling charge? and if you parry it he is put into OOS.
You play one of the safest/cancerous heros in the game and you have the nerve to say lawbringers impaling charge is cancer. HIS IMPALING CHARGE. Not his six bbs he gets, not his shove on block but his impaling charge. Lol what a joke.

Alustar.
10-05-2018, 11:37 AM
You don't need nobushi to bleed, all offensive shaman feats deals bleed damage, it's only a problem in 1v1 to bleed with shaman.

For lb impale, you need very specific angles to use the impale, and an almost full stamina bar to don't go exhausted after the top heavy (from all heroes, his is the top heavy with only 30 damage). All heroes have some kind of strong burst, especially in 4v4, his is not unfair. Might be if he wouldn't be so useless in everything else, and it might go with a rework.

Lmfao! Wrong again, dood! only two of shamans feats cause bleed, throwing axe and nail bomb.

Goat_of_Vermund
10-05-2018, 12:02 PM
As I said, all offensive (I meant direct damage), though I thought her beartraps deal bleed too. I still say she bleeds her opponents fairly easily in 4v4, though incompetent team mates usually ruin her bite (I can't even count how many times I was saved by this).

blabloCZ
10-05-2018, 01:33 PM
Hi,

nice topic.
I think you can watch this video from Kenzo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZOBx_ajrt0&t=786s

Then complain about LB impale, which is even not guarantee after heavy parry.

Leave LB alone, he will be no match for the new heroes in 1v1 anyway.

Charmzzz
10-05-2018, 01:34 PM
Hi,

nice topic.
I think you can watch this video from Kenzo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZOBx_ajrt0&t=786s

Then complain about LB impale, which is even not guarantee after heavy parry.

Leave LB alone, he will be no match for the new heroes in 1v1 anyway.

Who is talking about Duel here? The OP and the majority of complaints in this Thread evolve around 4v4. Go play your Main and spam Impales / Bombs more. ;)

Arekonator
10-05-2018, 01:37 PM
Hi,

nice topic.
I think you can watch this video from Kenzo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZOBx_ajrt0&t=786s

Then complain about LB impale, which is even not guarantee after heavy parry.

Leave LB alone, he will be no match for the new heroes in 1v1 anyway.

LB Impale is guaranteed from every parry, heavy included. If you are not getting it, it means you are inputing it wrong, plain and simple.
I personally dont want to see anything (except bombs) nerfed on LB before he gets rework and some improvement to his offense.

blabloCZ
10-05-2018, 01:40 PM
Even in 4v4 you are getting to situation 1v1.

Do not make eassumptions that I was talking about duels.

Have you even watched that video?

Arekonator
10-05-2018, 01:43 PM
Video shows that cent is bad hero and the conq SB is borderline busted. This is true and widely accepted, but not the point of this topic.

blabloCZ
10-05-2018, 01:49 PM
No the topic was that some player get his hero killed by double team of LB.
And his ego was damaged.
Am I correct?

The same thing will happend with double Raider team, double Shinobi team, double "Shrek" team and I am not talking about double Hilanders.
This is dominion (or 4v4), this is gang bang and this things will happen.
If you do not want to be that unlucky person who is gang banged, join your team and do gang bang to others. Do not go into situation 2vs1.

Charmzzz
10-05-2018, 01:52 PM
No the topic was that some player get his hero killed by double team of LB.
And his ego was damaged.
Am I correct?

The same thing will happend with double Raider team, double Shinobi team, double "Shrek" team and I am not talking about double Hilanders.
This is dominion (or 4v4), this is gang bang and this things will happen.
If you do not want to be that unlucky person who is gang banged, join your team and do gang bang to others. Do not go into situation 2vs1.

Then give Shaman Pred Mercy the uninterruptable Status I guess? So it is on par with Demon Embrace, Sickle Rain, Impale, Stampede and HL Throw. :D

blabloCZ
10-05-2018, 02:00 PM
If you think that this will helps you to have a better chance againts other heroes.
Give feedback to dev, if they are listening.

But when we are starting with this, why not to give all heroes 400ms lights?
And chained lights 300ms :) so then we can have nice 200ms for reaction :)

Arekonator
10-05-2018, 02:00 PM
So why did you posted that vid in first place when its not even relevant to the topic at hand?

OP is known for making bad judgements when making threads and also using "evidence" that doesnt really prove anything.
That being said (while i dont really consider nerfing impale at this stage necessary, not until the rework comes in), considering the move too strong on itself is legitimate opinion with understandable reasons, that while dont agree with, i respect and see where they coming from. And the fact is, LB is probably third best ganker in the game, after shaman and raider.

Arekonator
10-05-2018, 02:02 PM
Then give Shaman Pred Mercy the uninterruptable Status I guess? So it is on par with Demon Embrace, Sickle Rain, Impale, Stampede and HL Throw. :D If you want to do that then fine, but you would need to remove its ability to disable revenge, only other move that does that is the shugo hug.

blabloCZ
10-05-2018, 02:11 PM
So why did you posted that vid in first place when its not even relevant to the topic at hand?


So the creator of this topic can see what are really cancerous out of lock character with their movesets.
Out of lock impale from 95% not land at all. But it could be deadly counter - ledges, but this is same for raider, cent, warlord and shrek too if you are not caution enaught.
I would rather rework/remove other LB moves than this.

Charmzzz
10-05-2018, 02:12 PM
If you want to do that then fine, but you would need to remove its ability to disable revenge, only other move that does that is the shugo hug.

I am not playing Shaman, it was just to show how good some moves are compared to others.

And what about Long Arm, afaik that does disable Revenge, too. Could be wrong on that. Sickle Rain does for sure disable Revenge.

Arekonator
10-05-2018, 02:21 PM
I am not playing Shaman, it was just to show how good some moves are compared to others.

And what about Long Arm, afaik that does disable Revenge, too. Could be wrong on that. Sickle Rain does for sure disable Revenge.

Long arm disables revenge, but you can either revenge before it (when its impale > wallsplat into long arm) or in the moment you hit the ground, before any actual damage from LB comes in. As far as sickle rain, you can for sure revenge out in the space after ranged GB and before the first heavy that puts you into sickle rain lands. Also its interupted if the shinobi is hit during it. Some moves are for sure better than others, but as far as coordinated ganks go, shaman bite is as strong or stronger than impale and others.
I am also pretty sure all HL does in offensive stance is fully interuptable.

DefiledDragon
10-05-2018, 04:53 PM
Then give Shaman Pred Mercy the uninterruptable Status I guess? So it is on par with Demon Embrace, Sickle Rain, Impale, Stampede and HL Throw. :D

I'm all up for making predators mercy EXACTLY the same as Shugs DE, including the 30 minute wind up AND the loss of half her health on a miss.