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View Full Version : Nice, Nice, Nice - but overheating?



Tvrdi
06-30-2005, 05:03 PM
OK...we had lots of discussions about FM....how good it is..almost like in RL....and about other things how great they are...but whats about overheating??...in most planes to cool your hot engine its enough to quickly lower your throtle and thats it....you can ride with 110% again in a sec....and it seams that for most planes altitude has nothing to do with overheating,....you can overheat your engine equally at all altitudes (in RL there was a danger to overcool your engine above certain altitude--->not to mention in winter conditions).....why some of the planes need a eternity to overheat and some of them after few mins?....why in one plane you have engine damage after overheating and in other you can ride like nothin happened? Maybe Im just a freak who forgot this is only a game and some of us are blinded with its popularity among us....maybe, just because its far the best sim on the market so we want more than we can get....dunno....

Tvrdi
06-30-2005, 05:03 PM
OK...we had lots of discussions about FM....how good it is..almost like in RL....and about other things how great they are...but whats about overheating??...in most planes to cool your hot engine its enough to quickly lower your throtle and thats it....you can ride with 110% again in a sec....and it seams that for most planes altitude has nothing to do with overheating,....you can overheat your engine equally at all altitudes (in RL there was a danger to overcool your engine above certain altitude--->not to mention in winter conditions).....why some of the planes need a eternity to overheat and some of them after few mins?....why in one plane you have engine damage after overheating and in other you can ride like nothin happened? Maybe Im just a freak who forgot this is only a game and some of us are blinded with its popularity among us....maybe, just because its far the best sim on the market so we want more than we can get....dunno....

carguy_
06-30-2005, 07:59 PM
Ppl are whining about many planes and me109 overheat too.In Me109 it takes the same time to cool to normal stance as it was overheating.

I see an overheat message I turn rad open 2 secs later and exactly 2 secs later it is normal;the same overheat message,I`m running on 110,rad closed can`t cool now so after a long time of not cooling an engine it takes a long time for the engine to return to temp of 110centigrade.

Tvrdi
07-01-2005, 01:06 AM
I was speaking in general regarding overheating...overheating is one of the weakest points in the game...modelled poorly

Heliopause
07-01-2005, 01:31 AM
I agree that to make the game more realistic they should take use of e.g. winterconditions, altitude, speed and tropics just like in real time....... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Abbuzze
07-01-2005, 01:36 AM
The overheat in IL2- series is as realistic as the "complex engine management" is complex!

I think that this overheat in a -35?C enviorment is simply silly, overcooling was much more a problem.
BUT of course you can´t run an engine at 110% and WEP for hours without any troubles. Even with a cool coolingsystem there are many factors that overstress an engine in such circumstances.
The high pressures in the engine for example creates a lot of selective heat and stressing. Ball bearings at the crank shaft for example.
Under high pressure the oil can starting to carbonise, and this can damadge the engine, throttling back for 2 sec. will not cool down the engine at this points immediately!!

Thats the cause why you can use 110% power (in RL) longer if you enable MW50 over the rated alt. About this altitude MW50 don´t increase the power anymore, but it cools down the firing temperature, so the risk of "selective overheating" in the engine is reduced.

A 109 nightfighterpilot once break his engine in a idel dive down to a mossie. He was totaly surprised what happend. If you know it is quite simple, a rich mixture burns with a lower temperature, a lean one with a higher one, so the automatic in the 109 set the mixture to lean in his dive, the cool engine maybe got an overheat at a piston cause the engine run fast even with zero throttle, no cooling cause of reach mixture, so he simply got a piston seizure.

The open cooling will not help against this internal overheat. But some planes have to fly with open radiator nearly all the time or have an cooking cooling system.
In this part our simulations is as simple as games in late 90´s.
Instead of a primitve Overheating note, a overstress should apear. In a 109 you could use MW50 for 5min below rated alt and then it was forbidden for the next 15min, cause the cool enginecooling needed this time to transport the selektive heat away.

It would be real nice to have simulate this properly!
For all planes! In some planes the overheat is total silly, if you are used to a 109.
I would like to hear a cause for the overheating of the radiator ahh, engine in a 109. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

FritzGryphon
07-01-2005, 02:06 AM
overheating is one of the weakest points in the game...modelled poorly

I've never even seen this modeled in any other game.

And ambient temperature, altitude and speed does affect it. Try winter map, or desert, and it is readily apparent. Fly slow, overheat quicker.

msalama
07-01-2005, 02:10 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif Of course there're simplifications and tradeoffs, but hey - it's PCs we're talking about, not supercomputers...

Abbuzze
07-01-2005, 02:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
overheating is one of the weakest points in the game...modelled poorly

I've never even seen this modeled in any other game.

And ambient temperature, altitude and speed does affect it. Try winter map, or desert, and it is readily apparent. Fly slow, overheat quicker. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That´s a real good discription of the compleate overheating modell, in just three short sentenses! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tvrdi
07-01-2005, 02:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
overheating is one of the weakest points in the game...modelled poorly

I've never even seen this modeled in any other game.

And ambient temperature, altitude and speed does affect it. Try winter map, or desert, and it is readily apparent. Fly slow, overheat quicker. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

actualy only in desert map you can notice a difference in overheating behaviour,......although i didnt tried new maps..any tests?

msalama, I think if they succeeded in desert map...common? not to mention that they could tweak overheating at different alts I think...

Cajun76
07-01-2005, 06:45 AM
Maybe its just the P-47, or you guys never get off the deck, but on a summer map, I can overheat down low with WEP on, throttle back to cool off, continue on up to 7k or 8k and go back to WEP and never overheat because the cooler temps are modeled up there. Deep winter maps (old IL2) I rarely overheat, while desert maps I have to work up to the high alt more gradually, with less power. Being over the water also seems to make a difference.

I would think all this is easier to see on an air-cooled engine rather than a water-cooled inline, as outside air temp directly affects the air-cooled engine, theres no medium like water or Prestone between the engine heat and the air temp.

Stigler_9_JG52
07-01-2005, 08:25 AM
@FritzGryphon:

It has been better modeled... in Targetware (http://www.targetware.net).

One overlooked facet of the poor overheating model here is that it allows most people to fly around at or near 100% for their entire sortie, plus boosts, WEPs, etc. during combat. And many are "gaming the game" with 25% fuel loads as well. That's just not how it was done.

Most engines required you to use 85%+ on climbout, to gain needed alt... and then you leaned your mixture and throttled back for cruise until it was time for combat. Franz Stigler told me that the Germans would use no more than 75% for cruise, saving their top engine performance for combat, a duration expected to be no greater than about 5 minutes. Naturally there is a fuel saving component of this to consider which most of us never have to deal with, but should, even if it doesn't affect us in an "airlaunch" sortie. That's another big fault: even if something doesn't affect our sorties during our short fights, we should still have to worry about what happens "when we log off".

Roaring around at 100% for a majority of the time is what should create the most heat problems; this sim isn't even close to getting that right...yet.

TgD Thunderbolt56
07-01-2005, 09:27 AM
This is a 2 dimensional flight simulation/game. If you pushed your engine as hard in real life as we do in this game we would rarely make it back to friendly territory.

The vast majority of time in the cockpit back then was spent 'cruising' under 70% throttle, not in WEP, yet many expect to be able to push their ride to the edge for exhorbitant periods.

Most accounts I've read talk of throttle settings and manifold pressure when they're trying to convey their desperation, anxiety or speed...and that's just not the rule, but the exception.

I feel it's effectively modeled in-game.


TB