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View Full Version : Nerf those pesky top heroes



PepsiBeastin
09-29-2018, 02:12 PM
We can all agree that centurion, shugoki, and lawbringer are too strong. Conqueror is weak and shouldn't be forced to deal with their overpowered shenanigans.

https://i.gyazo.com/efb29fa913a3515b07b15eff47388790.png

Kargish1
09-29-2018, 02:21 PM
If anything those 3 are free wins lmao.

guest-Nez6tBu0
09-29-2018, 02:21 PM
I strongly agree yea those three ones are way to powerfull

for those who dont know:

https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-335553-16/state-of-balance-season-6-recap

DefiledDragon
09-29-2018, 03:54 PM
I think what's often overlooked when talking about viability is how interesting characters are to play and to fight against. I don't have much experience playing Cent outside of the training arena, but with both Shug and LB I can win my share of duels simply by turtling with LB or trading with shugs HA, but it's boring. You can block-shove-light or parry-light/impale people to death, or light headbutt people to death, but it's a boring way to fight. It seems to me that those two characters are designed to be played that way though, particularly when you look at Shug. Huge health pool, reduced damage with HA active, headbutt stuns and pushes your opponent away, essentially resetting the fight. He feels like he's designed to trade with his light headbutt combo and wear his opponent down, relying on his huge health pool to carry him through the trades. Similar thing with LB. HA on his shove to trade with your opponents follow up, top light stuns or go for GB after the shove. I love both those characters, but their kit, while it can be effective, isn't particularly fun to use in 1 v 1's against even a remotely competent opponent.

Baturai
09-29-2018, 04:04 PM
i appreciate devs Decision.
Now i am 100% sure they have 0 clue about the Game.
*Double Fail moment* ouch

Speedgamer2002
10-01-2018, 04:11 PM
As a cent main i strongly agree that cent is way too op. we have the ability to spam a slow very reactable and best of all punishable kick plz nerf ubi

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-01-2018, 04:18 PM
You guys act like those 3 are unusable, like at all. People win with them all the time, they do clearly need reworks and Ubi has acknowledged that. Dont exaggerate and boil it over to Conq. Without his SB he has nothing. Before he was trash, at least thats what people said, I did not, but now that he got some buffs people hate him. Makes no sense.

Roseguard_Cpt
10-01-2018, 04:30 PM
"If you are nothing without your Shield Bash Light, you shouldn't have it"
I played Conq to rep 10 before the rework, I want my old Conq back. One that could feint lights, shieldbash off of full block, blockable charged heavy that simply did more damage.If they simply took old Conq, gave him the heavy feint into SB, and the fullblock uppercut he'd be fine

Baggin_
10-01-2018, 05:27 PM
"If you are nothing without your Shield Bash Light, you shouldn't have it"
Lol you watch Spiderman Homecoming recently?

UbiInsulin
10-01-2018, 06:23 PM
We followed up on this with a clarification (https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1937707-Season-6-State-of-Balance-Follow-Up) a couple of days ago:



3. Centurion/Lawbringer/Shugoki?
There has been an uproar about this sentence in particular from the Season 6 State of Balance blog post:

“The suspicion is that the other top characters (especially Centurion, Lawbringer, Shugoki) would beat Conquerors by countering, and not by initiating combat”. --(Season 6 State of Balance)

What is important to remember is that this really means:

“The suspicion is that the other characters listed at the top placements within the Top 2.5% win rate matrix – such as Centurion (3rd), Lawbringer (6th), and Shugoki (7th) - are only able to beat Conqueror by counter-attacking. We believe their weak openers aren’t allowing them to win, and only the strength of counter-attacking options nets them wins against Conqueror.

We have no illusion that these characters are “top tier”, or that they have good enough openers to beat the actual top tier characters. We wrote “top characters” to mean “the characters who have the highest Win Rate among the top 2.5% of players, as noted in the graphic of the matrix above”. And we specifically called out Centurion, Lawbringer, and Shugoki, because it is unexpected to see them at the top of the 1v1 Win Rate. It would have been weird not to mention them.

It seems the wording of our sentence caused this confusion about a massive gap between player perception and dev perception, and that’s our mistake for the bad wording. However, we want you to understand that the Fight Team doesn’t consider any of those 3 as top tier characters, and we believe they all require improvements to their initiation moves.

Roseguard_Cpt
10-01-2018, 06:34 PM
Of the 3, which one's can even get a 40% Winrate against Conq? It's not that Ubi is making offense viable, they're simply making defense unviable. Shaman and Kensei have options, various feints and cancels to get the opponent guessing and making mistakes. Conq however has one maybe 2 moves, shield bash light, and soft feint SB light. The opponent doesn't have to guess, they simply know it's coming and unless they manage to fit the perfect 100 ms GB window, they get nothing.
At one point Ubi said they wanted to bring every character to Shaman level, but it wasn't Shaman's tackle-lights alone that make her a good character.

EIGHTYYARDS NYC
10-01-2018, 07:08 PM
"If you are nothing without your Shield Bash Light, you shouldn't have it"
I played Conq to rep 10 before the rework, I want my old Conq back. One that could feint lights, shieldbash off of full block, blockable charged heavy that simply did more damage.If they simply took old Conq, gave him the heavy feint into SB, and the fullblock uppercut he'd be fine

Again, he needs his SB, as you wrote, SB off of full block. Idc how he has it he needs it, so people complaining of it makes no sense to me. Nerf it so its slower, idc, but I dislike when people act like its Gods gift to shields. He needs it, period, its his main opener.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
10-02-2018, 02:26 AM
I would like to see shugoki Nerfed. He has been op since the beginning with only minor tweaks done by the dev team to hinder his reign as supreme hero. He has a full kit that is impossible to beat. Everytime im spammed or caught off guard by his openers I wonder too myself how this god of a character could exist in a so called balanced game.

Illyrian_King
10-02-2018, 07:22 PM
We followed up on this with a clarification (https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1937707-Season-6-State-of-Balance-Follow-Up) a couple of days ago:

The clarification still doesn't change the fact, that you are not finally working on Lawbringer and Goki. You could at least have said, that you are thinking of a good rework concept or anything. People see how much you are basing on data, because this flawed win-los-ratio is the very only thing that speaks against a rework, and you still chosed this path.

DefiledDragon
10-02-2018, 09:06 PM
Base peoples skill rating off win rates.
Average players using OP characters climb into the top 2.5% because win rates.
Base character balance off win rates.
Average players using OP characters meet awesome players using UP characters and get beat.
OP characters look fine because win rates.