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PhantomKira
01-10-2011, 01:00 AM
DCG keeps wanting to put Lt. Col So and So in the second flight, or worse, slot number 16, despite adjustment of squadron order from the very beginning of campaign setup to have the good Lt. Col at the top of the squadron roster and thus leading the squadron.

I have successfully managed to get DCG to let him lead the squadron a grand once, but not again. It's obvious that I'm missing a step, somewhere, and just can't remember to repeat it again.

I'm following the directions to the letter, and remember that I modified them (I think) to get it to put the leader at the front (imagine that!), but can't remember what the tweak was.

Yes, I completely wipe the old DCG mission out of IL2 and the DCG folder before attempting a new campaign. This is the Non DGEN replacement type campaign.

Any ideas?

PhantomKira
01-10-2011, 01:00 AM
DCG keeps wanting to put Lt. Col So and So in the second flight, or worse, slot number 16, despite adjustment of squadron order from the very beginning of campaign setup to have the good Lt. Col at the top of the squadron roster and thus leading the squadron.

I have successfully managed to get DCG to let him lead the squadron a grand once, but not again. It's obvious that I'm missing a step, somewhere, and just can't remember to repeat it again.

I'm following the directions to the letter, and remember that I modified them (I think) to get it to put the leader at the front (imagine that!), but can't remember what the tweak was.

Yes, I completely wipe the old DCG mission out of IL2 and the DCG folder before attempting a new campaign. This is the Non DGEN replacement type campaign.

Any ideas?

DKoor
01-10-2011, 03:51 AM
Can't really help you out, but I'm here to write a line or two about DCG.

First off, it is clear that this prog has good potential (to be one light year better than DGen), but for some reason I was unable to exploit it in the right way.
Be it for my expectations, be it for my lack of knowledge whatever.

I always wanted this prog to do one thing: switch to next map before I get old and my hair goes gray.
It never did, I always stuck on one map in several campaigns, I think that I saw map changes only once in all my playing.
Next, it become obvious to me that somehow we (my squadron) are of utmost importance to the war ( http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ) so we can change the course of war if we destroy enough tanks or trucks... I don't really like this, I think DGen does this part better (practically no way to influence the war even if you are better than Hartmann result wise). Or maybe I'm wrong so you can nowadays set DCG to ignore your "successes" (which I really doubt, but...).

Anyhow if ANYONE has ever played Luftwaffe campaign from start (1939 or 1941) to the end (1945), with a few map changes and actually LOST the war with DCG please let me know so I know it is possible. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TheGrunch
01-10-2011, 08:59 AM
DCG makes DGen look really crappy, IMO. The thing about it is, predominantly the campaigns released for it (with the exception of JastaV's Germany 43-45 campaign) are only single-map campaigns. The only other grand campaigns released for it that I can remember are the standard Eastern Front or Pacific grand campaigns, which are not so detailed. The way it works IIRC is that unless you win or lose the map by a certain date, the historical winner of the map always wins, so if you want to make it more of a challenge or indeed impossible to alter the course of history you can alter the Time Passage variable in General Campaign settings; however the way that DCG is designed is so that the relative amounts and movements of ground forces affect the outcome of the map, so if you dislike the player altering the course of the war you probably won't like using it. Best option IMO is just to make sure that the Column Density is always set to Full whatever else you do so that there's the greatest amount of ground units present on the map. That way you as an individual player can affect them the least.
I don't think it's a problem with the idea of DCG so much as simply that the scale of the program is too big for the game - if the game's maps were much bigger and could contain many more squadrons and individual missions occurring simultaneously it would be less LOL I WON TEH WAR and more that the player can have a noticeable local effect if they're a spectacular pilot.
However, it is possible to alter the effects of winning or losing the map in one of the files, so that you still switch to the historical outcome's map even if you win, I just can't remember which one it is!
As for the map-switching thing, I can't say I've ever experienced any problems getting it to switch unless the campaign I had loaded was a single-map external campaign, it's simply a question of one or the other team's ground forces getting to the target square on the map.

PhantomKira
01-10-2011, 09:25 AM
DKoor, I've had it switch maps on me, more than once. There's a variable in the Options dropdown menu that says "Singe Map Campaign" (2/3rds of the way down list). Make sure that one is unchecked.

I know what you mean about player influence of war. The first mission goes okay, with 16 v 16 (I run moderate density, not max), then one side clobbers the other on that mission and it goes down hill from there. I've had pitifully depleted Japanese fighter and bomber squadrons get finished off on the ground by US tanks once the invasion starts, which didn't even make it worth flying the rest of the mission(s). I probably "skipped" (ended early, not ten minutes after mission start) 5-10 missions that way on one map before DCG decided US won and loaded the next campaign/map. There was no reason to continue, since all enemy aircraft had been destroyed prior to takeoff.

Not having a computer remotely powerful enough to run DCG to full capacity, I can't even begin to imagine what a "wider war" would require of it!

TheGrunch
01-10-2011, 09:31 AM
It's also possible to have a number of inactive squadrons to replace those that are effectively destroyed. Really it just comes down to the campaign design. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Have you tried asking on the forum at Lowengrin.com, PhantomKira? I can't say I have ever mucked with rosters in DCG.

PhantomKira
01-10-2011, 08:33 PM
I did think of that first, but a mosey on over there quickly deterred me. There hasn't been a post on that forum in over a year, so my educated guess was that I wasn't going to get an answer anytime soon, and that I'd better ask where people may not know, but might know someone who would. That, and I'd be assured a relatively timely response, regardless of the answer.

PhantomKira
01-10-2011, 09:19 PM
Okay, managed to isolate what it's doing. I changed the paint scheme so I could track who went where, and it turns out that, as suspected, DCG IS switching the #5 and #1 slot... sort of. It seems it does this only after switching #5 with someone else, because the #1 in flight is a low ranking officer, of the type that I only use as wingmen, so he should not have been in #5 slot to begin with. Oh the joys of second hand software!

Hummmm... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif

DKoor
01-11-2011, 11:56 PM
Thanks Phantom for your input http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

I had success in creating manual (not automated campaign).
This way DCG actually "listens to me" so I can correct if something goes wrong...

I started fictional TestBed map campaign... so far so good, DCG obeys nearly all input http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif.

In previous attempts of running semi-automated or fully automated campaign something always went bad for me this or that way... but this time so far so good, sure from IL-2 interface it seems like I'm running static campaign (no rooster) but if everything works well - who cares? I have rooster in DCG http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif .

In a way maybe that experience may help you as well, PK (that is if you already aren't running manual campaign)?

TheGrunch
01-12-2011, 01:43 AM
Are you sure you went on the right forum (http://forums.oesau.jg1.org/index.php?c=4), PK? You can also post in the Chatbox on the front-page. If you've got it sorted, that's awesome, but it might be worth mentioning it as a bug, anyway, so it'll be fixed in future releases. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif A version supporting 4.10 is apparently in progress so now's a good time to be reporting issues.

DKoor, it's probably worth mentioning that even with the patch to disable the log-file changes in UP and the latest class.dcg, etc., DCG doesn't exactly play nicely with the mods (especially Zuti), so it's possible that that has been the problem in the past for you?

PhantomKira
01-12-2011, 02:23 PM
Great idea trying manual, DKoor. Didn't work. Same problem exists with the program putting the player in lead position, second element regardless of squadron arrangement.

Yeah, Grunch, I did go to the right forum - then proceeded to get tunnel vision (I was rather frustrated at the time, having just loaded, deleted, repeat, multiple campaigns in an attempt to get the program to do my bidding). I was looking at the dates on stickies, not active posts.

I found a similar thread in the "bugs" section of the forum that was a year and a half old. I tacked my issue onto that thread since it was similar. Hopefully the fix for the origional poster's problem would fix this, but nothing had been written other than a "thanks for the details" by Lowengrin, so I have no idea where it stands progress wise. I'd have to assume little to none.

Okay, just checked, he responded with "It could very well be a bug. In fact, I'm pretty sure something like this was reported before. I don't have a lot of time right now, but I will see if I can replicate it on the weekend and get back to you.

You don't appear to be doing anything wrong in your set up."

Nice to get a response, we shall see what there is to see.

Ba5tard5word
01-12-2011, 04:52 PM
I've tried DCG but I don't like how it seems to keep replaying the same mission type and scenario over and over, and often keeps setting up opposing sides' waypoints so they never meet one another, or else only after circling around for 30 minutes. I've tried tinkering with the settings but it keeps doing this.

DKoor
01-12-2011, 05:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
and often keeps setting up opposing sides' waypoints so they never meet one another </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thankfullyhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif.
You'll remember my words when you face Lavochkin shvaks in Ju-87. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

The one thing I absolutely hated with DGen is that your chances to meet enemy is 100% or so ever missionhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.
You can ensure that in DCG too just set intercept chance to 100%.

About same missions, mate you can set your missions objectives mission-per-mission... TBH if you want to have real experience with DCG use manual campaign. Create missions every time you finished previous one.

This way you'll get most experience from DCG (I know I am).
It actually *is* fun, plus you get to fly practically all planes with no much hassle, just select another aircraft for the next mission and voila, you transfer from P-40 to P-38 or alike, another words you aren't bonded with one type for many missions.

DCG is much more advanced just it requires some time to adjust all parameters, but with experience I think that will come too.

PhantomKira
01-13-2011, 08:35 AM
I did find it frustrating, when I did get it to work, that you'd have a squadron strung out in a line of four flights of four, with each just visible to the one behind/ahead of it. So much for the 16 plane gaggle. However, I do find four planes or even eight planes far more manageable than 16. (Another advantage with the feeding of aircraft into a fight. Enemy thinks they're bouncing four, then they are quickly overwhelmed with numbers as the others show up.) As I recall, it was found by the British that two squadrons was about the maximum a Wing Commander could handle in the air while maintaining formation integrity and fighting ability of any sort. More than that and the formation would fall apart upon contact with the enemy and the strength in numbers was lost as the fight degenerated into multiple individual combats.

As an aside, tactically, I've found the "Break/Cover Me" command sequence at start up on the runway to work wonders with getting the AI to successfully engage, especially with the corresponding "drag and bag" fighting style. Given that combination, the only other order I have to give is a "Reform" after combat is finished. Doing this, the AI actually fights when needed, who it needs to, when it needs to. For the most part, I can just dive into the fight, and not worry about ordering my wingmen around as they finally understand what's needed without being told. I've finally had them shoot someone off my tail (and it wasn't my wingman who did it), rather than screaming for help until shot down while being ignored. It's sooo nice to be heard!

DKoor
01-13-2011, 10:33 AM
PK, yeah I really agree with you.
Having large formation real close is not the best idea you can have.

When bounced they can all be in inferior position and held there by significantly smaller number of enemy ac.

Instead it is always a better idea to have flights of 4 or 8 apart from each other at reasonable distance 800m-1km. That way enemy gets 1 bnz pass at best after which he must run otherwise if he makes another pass on the same target he will quickly find that he has a "hot tail" those fighters that were trailing behind .8-1.0 and gave full throttle and climbed up to his alt in the meantime.

Works miraculously online too (2 pairs separated, works real wonders online).