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FredEx919
09-26-2018, 09:05 PM
Hello everyone,

While we were a bit late for this one, I wanted to share our latest State of Balance: Season 6 recap. It's meant to give you insights into the data behind the scenes, and hear directly from the team how they see things, balance-wise.

https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-ca/news-community/164-335553-16/state-of-balance-season-6-recap

The Season 7 recap should come much sooner after the season end. Thanks, and comment below with your thoughts!

Devils-_-legacy
09-26-2018, 09:15 PM
Where's the detailed graph for 4v4 win rates it's just the overall winner rates?

tehemperorer
09-26-2018, 11:03 PM
Balance needs to be looked at across the board... I don't want to get into how you're all looking at the data wrong. Look at 1v1, for example, and look at Nobushi. She's a hybrid, with low percent win rate. You fixed your bug that you say affected the numbers, though no one really thinks that was the problem anyway. Why aren't you looking at Nobushi then? She's not an assassin, so supposedly benefitted from the bug, but is still at the bottom? Can't you ****ing see how wrong that is?

DoctorMcBatman
09-27-2018, 02:26 AM
Yikes. Peacekeeper literally at the bottom. Great rework! Meanwhile, Conq and Kens up top as expected. Surprised Warden and Zerk aren't higher, but I don't know how much to trust this data.

EDIT: Not a PK apologist necessarily, something needed to be done for sure. But NO HERO should have a 41% win rate. What a joke.

TheRealZinwrath
09-27-2018, 02:53 AM
On the Aramusha I don't know how much of it is weakness vs problems with his design. His strength especially at mid/low is the ease in which he's able to feint attacks into other attacks. As you climb ranks you cant rely on this quite as much as people are more patient making it hard to "get in". Another thing that would be interesting to have statistics on is how often his multiblock is effectively used per match. The short window to use it makes it compete with just flat out parrying which in some cases is less punishable. Add to injury that parrying attacks reap generally better rewards than his multiblock attacks. I think this is one of the most concerning things, if you make use of half his kit your playing him wrong. At least that's been my perception from playing and listening to top players. I am less concerned with how weak he is vs how imbalanced his strength is across his kit. He becomes more boring to play the better my opponent becomes as i'm reduced to less and less options it feels I don't have that feeling on other characters I play to near the same degree.

Muitcha-melodia
09-27-2018, 03:07 AM
So nothing about the warlord......

EvoX.
09-27-2018, 03:47 AM
How is this correct? The graph is made in accordance to results from the top 2.5% of players, yet Centurion has the third highest win rate? BS. Everybody in the average percentages counters him effectively, everybody in the 2.5% should stomp him effortlessly.

Other stuff like Shugo and Aramusha being above the likes of Orochi and Zerk makes this even more mind-boggling.

FreakinMitch
09-27-2018, 04:52 AM
Honestly, would like to see the stats of console and PC separately.

fred_HK
09-27-2018, 07:07 AM
1. Saying a character with 51% is above curve while 6 of them are between 51% and 49% is a blatant misunderstanding of basic statistics and variance rules.

2. Do you even consider that a few of those percent come from under powered characters like PK that artificially increase the win rate of all the others when they naturally lose against them ? Basically, remove PK and look at your stats. 3 characters will be in the top, the rest way below 50%. (including Shugo, Lawdaddy etc)

3. Is it satisfactory to have 70% to 30% win rates depending on the characters and still do ... nothing !? Is it satisfactory to have a PK rework turning it from the most OP to the most UP fighter and not doing anything about it for 2-3 seasons ?

4. Getting to it and to the rhythm of updates: 3 months to acknowledge a problem, 3 months to confirm it, 3 months to cook a minor change = 9 months to wait to get a change. Are they really that out of touch in the dev team, Mr. Pope ?

5. This game is dying because it promotes cheesy gameplay and bug abuses (roll, unlock, etc). We're still back at only 3,000 players on Steam because everyone left again. Same problems for 18 months, same no change policy. The dev team is lazy and doesn't know what makes this game fun or not.

6. That dev blog post was so depressing to read. Nothing to announce, wait and see. :(

7. You guys don't see the problems in the game. Basically, you have no clue... that you have no clue !

8. Please don't mix PC with console stats, that's obvious that it will screw up the whole data and it means nothing in the end.

ChampionRuby50g
09-27-2018, 07:34 AM
How is this correct? The graph is made in accordance to results from the top 2.5% of players, yet Centurion has the third highest win rate? BS. Everybody in the average percentages counters him effectively, everybody in the 2.5% should stomp him effortlessly.

Other stuff like Shugo and Aramusha being above the likes of Orochi and Zerk makes this even more mind-boggling.

So I watched a video in which Spliced was saying they used all of the data, including new players which obviously have no idea about the heroes and it would completely skewer the stats. This must be whatís happened here. Actually does look like the reason the post took so long was damage control from Ubisoftís team to try and make a sh1t situation look better. They still failed. A mass exodus and condemnation of this game is happening online now, and itís about time. Maybe Ubisoft will finally realise they are out of touch with the community, and address it on the den. I doubt it though.

Mighty_Mackerel
09-27-2018, 08:13 AM
The team should probably listen to the players since we actually play the game day in and day out and we know what we are talking about as well as consistently playing the game themselves, solely going off of data that represents 2.5 percent of the ENTIRE player base is a seriously flawed way of going about things, especially since console and PC are very different and would yield vastly different stats from each other...

EVTDemon
09-27-2018, 09:10 AM
In presenting our data here, we want players to understand that “light spam”, while annoying, doesn’t actually yield overpowered characters. Learning to combat such offense is an important step for a player to improve their For Honor skillset. As our intention is to keep pushing 1v1 combat into a meta in which offense is more viable, it’s important that the community understand where we stand on this topic.
Is it serious? I can not find a non-foul to comment it. If 5% of players with incredible reaction and powerful pc with no ever lagging network can play with something like orochi spammers, than we all have to suffer? Really? If you do not fix that, this game will loose most of the new players soon enough.

Klingentaenz3r
09-27-2018, 10:04 AM
So I watched a video in which Spliced was saying they used all of the data, including new players which obviously have no idea about the heroes and it would completely skewer the stats. This must be what’s happened here. Actually does look like the reason the post took so long was damage control from Ubisoft’s team to try and make a sh1t situation look better. They still failed. A mass exodus and condemnation of this game is happening online now, and it’s about time. Maybe Ubisoft will finally realise they are out of touch with the community, and address it on the den. I doubt it though.

the data is based on the top 2.5% players. The question would be then how were new players able to get into that segment? Smurfs maybe that get such a high k/d that they enter that bracket easily?

Otherwise I call BS on Spliced suspicion. He also showed quite some lacking in reading comprehension ability by thinking they stated shugoki or centurion are in general top character (they only refered to the current display on the 1v1 data spreadsheet).

Although if we are talking about centurion, I could totally see how he would smack every other new player easily and get a high winrate - but again: how high would it have to be to get into the top 2.5% bracket?


How is this correct? The graph is made in accordance to results from the top 2.5% of players, yet Centurion has the third highest win rate? BS. Everybody in the average percentages counters him effectively, everybody in the 2.5% should stomp him effortlessly.
.
I personally think that our centurion player base developed quite a bit in higher levels in the past seasons as well which resulted in a much better utilization of the standard charged heavy (not the unblockable) for feinting, mix-up purposes and a second safe exit for a parry bait. Paired with his pretty safe heavy offense (resulting in opponents being forced to block or often times getting interruption hits) and a good parry game and a more counter-oriented playstyle rather than overly aggressive one with legion kick and unblockable heavy (which you would see more in low-mid levels and countered by the majority of people) he can get quite a handful as a match up (depends on your character of course as well).


1.

8. Please don't mix PC with console stats, that's obvious that it will screw up the whole data and it means nothing in the end.


I agree. Would be interesting to see those two separated.

Siegfried-Z
09-27-2018, 10:35 AM
Some stats are really surprising while some was expected.

Non Expected :

Kensei 2nd in Duel : While very stong in 4V4, in Duel he looks not that strong, he is still 54% as in S5, so it is just that few others char has decreased.
Centurion so high ranked overall, especially in duel wow
Really surprised to see Shugoki doing good in duel and so bad in 4v4... i would have say the opposite
Shocked to see the fall of Berserker.. didn't excpet it

Expected :

PK is equal to really trash as it was expected.. even worst than pre-rework Valk.. wow

Some comments !

First, like i've said before S7 rework and still think, why do you have rework Warden ? He really wasn't the Char in need of a rework.. and was still good.. what is the point of reworking a char ranked 4 in duel and 5 in 4v4 ?

Another funny thing is your comment about Glad.. you say it is surprising to see him always under-performing. But then, maybe it is mean he is not that strong don't you think ?
And no mods has comment about it while every Glad players ask it for a while : HE NEED HIS GUARD TO BE FIX ! That's all ! He has strong offense options but is too weak in terms of defense.

Klingentaenz3r
09-27-2018, 10:47 AM
Yikes. Peacekeeper literally at the bottom. Great rework! Meanwhile, Conq and Kens up top as expected. Surprised Warden and Zerk aren't higher, but I don't know how much to trust this data.

EDIT: Not a PK apologist necessarily, something needed to be done for sure. But NO HERO should have a 41% win rate. What a joke.

Well on the PK this was to be expected as most players would have to adjust their playstyle first towards her "updates". Beforehand there was not too much you had to mix up. You had the damage output and you could be save in a lot scenarios by abusing the backdodge mechanic.

PK players have to adjust and getting used to fully utilizing her kit and in general the new situation she was in for in that season. Suddenly she wasn't an easy character for easy wins anymore. I am expecting however that in season 7 her win/loss ratio would look different than in season 6.

Why would you see Warden higher? His rework came out in season 7, not in season 6 (on which this data is based on). The reason that he was picked rather often was because people (warden mains) were expecting a rework soon and hence trying to level or to shake some dust of and get into the character again before the rework (at least I could observe this on many occasions)



Some stats are really surprising while some was expected.


Another funny thing is your comment about Glad.. you say it is surprising to see him always under-performing. But then, maybe it is mean he is not that strong don't you think ?
And no mods has comment about it while every Glad players ask it for a while : HE NEED HIS GUARD TO BE FIX ! That's all ! He has strong offense options but is too weak in terms of defense.

His guard is about the only explanation I have why he would perform so low in the statistics. Maybe due to his guard even more helpless on console than on PC. He is on paper and in my book one of the very best duelists in the game with such a full and rich kit and of course, a broken zone.

Dry.Fish
09-27-2018, 11:46 AM
If they can't balance 18 characters how are they going to with 22. F the statistics you know what to do. Do it, Do it.

Needsbalancing
09-27-2018, 12:06 PM
Hello everyone,

While we were a bit late for this one, I wanted to share our latest State of Balance: Season 6 recap. It's meant to give you insights into the data behind the scenes, and hear directly from the team how they see things, balance-wise.

https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-ca/news-community/164-335553-16/state-of-balance-season-6-recap

The Season 7 recap should come much sooner after the season end. Thanks, and comment below with your thoughts!

Pay attention to when I type ďmaybeĒ .
Feel free to debate with me anything in the post except things that have the word ďmaybeĒ attached to them.

Feint* grammar issues lol


Well Iím going to give a list of everyone who needs a look into and my small suggestions as to how they should be buffed.

Iíve played a lot of this game and I hope that Ubisoft can agree with the things I will mention.

Raider needs a lot more chains(Light into heavy etc) and faster lights(500ms). Maybe hyper armor on his heavies(The first heavy in the chain),faster heavy startup, less stamina consumption.

Warlord also needs more chains and a solid all guard stance that guarantees punishes. Maybe even an unblockable.

Peacekeeper needs a small damage buff and less stamina consumption or at least faster stamina recovery. Her guardbreak should guarantee her a heavy(one that does 25-27 damage)from any direction that she canít follow up into a bleed stab.
Maybe an unblockable similar to gladiators toe stab.(stabs chest with dagger quickly, 8 damage)

Lawbringer needs a lot more chains, faster lights, faster chains, Maybe even hyper armor on some heavies,Less stamina consumption,an reliable opener and maybe a change to shove on block. Maybe give him a proper bash.

Nobushi needs more chains, faster lights, less stamina consumption.

Centurion needs an opener, maybe a chargeable kick similar to warden shoulder bash, cancelable zone attack.

Shinobi needs more options, more chains, an unblockable maybe, cancelable zone attack.

Aramusha Iím not to sure what to do with. He is basically a weaker bezerker at this point. He definitely needs some changes however because he is among of the weakest in the cast.

Shugoki NEEDS A REWORK.

The rest of the cast is fine in all honesty. If I were to change things to any of the characters not mentioned it would be....

Orochi should get an unblockable similar to gladiator. Better guard break throw.

Shamans bite damage reduction to 40 but increased healing. Maybe more chains.

Conq bash being punishable like wardens shoulder bash.

Warden more chains, canít faint shoulder bash after you are already into the bash itself.
Meaning once he starts moving forward he canít faint it.

Highlander faster normal lights, more punishable caber toss.

Valkyrie should get more damage on her guardbreak and first in chain heavies.(25-27)

Hereís a tier list as well in my opinion.

A tier: Orochi,Shaman,Valkyrie, Highlander, Shinobi.

B tier: Centerion, Nobushi, Warlord, Peacekeeper.

C tier: Raider, Aramusha, Lawbringer.

D tier: Shugoki.

S tier: Warden, Conqueror, Kensei, Gladiator, Berzerker.

The heroes in S tier that I think need nerfs are....

Wardens charged shoulder bash faint(If he starts the bash, as In him already doing the bash, like moving forward) this shouldnít be a thing. Keep his bash the same just donít allow him to faint while he already started the bash.

Conquerors Sheild bash needs to be more vulnerable.


This is my opinion and most of the communities as well(In terms with which heroes need some adjusting). Plenty of videos on why these characters needs nerfs and buffs. Sorry if I restated anything. Iím just going off all of my experiences in game and all the communities feedback.

The data showed in the graphs were pretty inaccurate. The players of the game know whatís best. Especially the really dedicated ones who understand the games mechanics.

Ubisoft please take this into consideration and make your community happy.

#Balance.

SpaceJim12
09-27-2018, 12:32 PM
Who this shiny zone unlocker cool barbarian on a top of pick rate for 4v4? I think he will be there in S7 as well. And Conq...

Illyrian_King
09-27-2018, 12:56 PM
Lawbringer with 51% in Duell??

Impossible. The best players you can find, keep telling how much he lacks. I main him since launch, and against passive players i also crumble away.

I am really curious about the S7 charts.

He really needs a rework!

Siegfried-Z
09-27-2018, 01:12 PM
Raider needs a lot more chains and faster lights. Maybe hyper armor on his heavies(The first heavy in the chain), less stamina consumption.

#Balance.

Sorry but i've stop reading after that... Raider is already a beast and with what you're saying he would become the strongest and unbalanced char of the whole game.

He's gonna be ebuff already in S7 btw with GB side heavy and on throw too which is so stupid... he is already a very annoying char in 4v4 and gonna be worst.

His game is 4v4, That's not because he is not shining in 1v1 that it means he needs that much buff.

Charmzzz
09-27-2018, 01:14 PM
Lawbringer with 51% in Duell??

Impossible. The best players you can find, keep telling how much he lacks. I main him since launch, and against passive players i also crumble away.

I am really curious about the S7 charts.

He really needs a rework!

Face an Assassin and Shove-On-Block them to hell. Occasionally your light will come through, and you have higher health, and they couldnt do sh*t to you due to the Guard Stance Switch Bug... 51% is, btw, not very high. Ubi just tries to make it look like LB, Cent and Shugo are fine so they dont have to rework them...

Needsbalancing
09-27-2018, 01:26 PM
Sorry but i've stop reading after that... Raider is already a beast and with what you're saying he would become the strongest and unbalanced char of the whole game.

He's gonna be ebuff already in S7 btw with GB side heavy and on throw too which is so stupid... he is already a very annoying char in 4v4 and gonna be worst.

His game is 4v4, That's not because he is not shining in 1v1 that it means he needs that much buff.

Youíre overthinking it. He can only mix you up after he lands the stunning tap. His side heavy after GB was an unintended change thatís not going through. The only thing Iím suggesting is giving him neutral pressure.
All that I suggested for raider equates to neutral pressure and mix ups. Nothing OP about that. You should read the rest of what I typed.
Raider isnít a beast. Raider is hot garbage. If you donít know this or that the change for his side heavies on GB werenít going through as an actual change. I donít think you need to be spreading your opinion around.

Bezerker literally has a better version of this and he is viable, not a broken complete monster. Use your head please. Comments like yours are the reason nothing gets fixed in the game.

ChampionRuby50g
09-27-2018, 01:52 PM
Needsbalancing clearly must not know about how strong stampede charge is in 4v4, or mustnít know about the strength of the unparryable unblockable Zone that will deal 50+ damage to all around it. So yeah, Raider is a Beast.

Charmzzz
09-27-2018, 02:02 PM
Raider isn’t a beast. Raider is hot garbage. If you don’t know this or that the change for his side heavies on GB weren’t going through as an actual change. I don’t think you need to be spreading your opinion around.

Bezerker literally has a better version of this and he is viable, not a broken complete monster. Use your head please. Comments like yours are the reason nothing gets fixed in the game.

Oh yeah, sure. That's why Raider is Top 3 in Dominion Winrate and Top 1 in Dominion Pickrate. Because he is hot garbage, right?

Stampede is THE BEST ganking tool in the game. Chained unlocked unparryable Zone dealing 70+ Damage (with Gear Stats and Revenge) on a single hit to EVERYONE around him is fine too, right?

Klingentaenz3r
09-27-2018, 02:04 PM
He's gonna be ebuff already in S7 btw with GB side heavy and on throw too which is so stupid... he is already a very annoying char in 4v4 and gonna be worst.


Wow-wow-woah hold your horses. This has already been announced that this won't be the case. It was just a test for variable/different timings for heavies (like 750 ms or so) and how that would work out for parries and GB vulnerability and stuff IN the public test. Due to that he got tempoarily that side heavy off of a GB which was unintended!

Needsbalancing
09-27-2018, 02:37 PM
Youíre overthinking it. He can only mix you up after he lands the stunning tap. His side heavy after GB was an unintended change thatís not going through. The only thing Iím suggesting is giving him neutral pressure.
All that I suggested for raider equates to neutral pressure and mix ups. Nothing OP about that. You should read the rest of what I typed.
Raider isnít a beast. Raider is hot garbage. If you donít know this or that the change for his side heavies on GB werenít going through as an actual change. I donít think you need to be spreading your opinion around.

Bezerker literally has a better version of this and he is viable, not a broken complete monster. Use your head please. Comments like yours are the reason nothing gets fixed in the game.


Oh yeah, sure. That's why Raider is Top 3 in Dominion Winrate and Top 1 in Dominion Pickrate. Because he is hot garbage, right?

Stampede is THE BEST ganking tool in the game. Chained unlocked unparryable Zone dealing 70+ Damage (with Gear Stats and Revenge) on a single hit to EVERYONE around him is fine too, right?

Well to sum this up. Gear stats are getting taken out of the game. What I typed is from a 1v1 prospective. The things Iíve suggested to buff him has nothing to do with his zone or his stampede. You mentioning his zone is is hilarious considering Highlander can use 40 damage heavies in gank situations and toss and kick. Warden can bash you off the map, bash you into attacks. Glad toe stab opens you up to attacks etc etc etc. your points suck. The stamina he uses when he zones is ridiculous. Compared to the heroes I mentioned he is hot garbage. His zone is very parriable, In fact one of the easiest things to parry in the game. And it has a long startup and he can get hit out of it if he were doing the unlocked unblockable or not. So yes. He is not a beast. Heís hot garbage.

Those win rates arenít even accurate btw and they are irrevant. Expected more from you charmzzz because you saw lawbringer win rate and said ďimpossibleĒ and then youíre going to use those incorrect stats as evidence😂 hilarious.

His zone, stampede, and stunning tap is all he has apart from guardbreaks.

ChampionRuby50G
Charmzzz
You guys clearly donít understand.

Oh and again, dumb comments like the ones you two brought up are why nothing gets fixed in the game.

ops_cat
09-27-2018, 04:16 PM
Top 2.5% of For Honor players on PC and Console combined.

Are serious? Here cringe level is going high,i like to give my tip to add even Rainbow operator to this list so it can sky up over the top.

I like to know how you can give us a stats of all the thing mixed up, i understand the game is called the same for all the platform, but the performance are different,so if next time you want post something like this you have to do it for PC\Ps4\Xbox or don't post nothing because it fell like a joke otherwise.

Tyrfing_.
09-27-2018, 04:54 PM
Thanks Ubi, nice post. Clear breakdown and understandable explanations. Agree with most of it. I do not understand most complaints here, as obviously everyone is just talking about their own little world. Looking at the quite controversial discussions throughout the forum, it gets clear that not everyone has the same experiences.

It is understandable to look only at the top 2.5% as otherwise the lack of skill woud outweigh the heros abilities.
However: the lower lever player are the majority, and therefore it might be even more important to address the issues there - like light spam, Ama light-chain, Cent.,... in order to keep the 97.5% of players playing, and not to lose them to other games. The top 2.5% would either stay anyway, or should move on by now, as they already spent too much time with For Honor... ;-p

Needsbalancing
09-27-2018, 05:37 PM
Thanks Ubi, nice post. Clear breakdown and understandable explanations. Agree with most of it. I do not understand most complaints here, as obviously everyone is just talking about their own little world. Looking at the quite controversial discussions throughout the forum, it gets clear that not everyone has the same experiences.

It is understandable to look only at the top 2.5% as otherwise the lack of skill woud outweigh the heros abilities.
However: the lower lever player are the majority, and therefore it might be even more important to address the issues there - like light spam, Ama light-chain, Cent.,... in order to keep the 97.5% of players playing, and not to lose them to other games. The top 2.5% would either stay anyway, or should move on by now, as they already spent too much time with For Honor... ;-p

What even is this comment?

Siegfried-Z
09-27-2018, 05:41 PM
Well to sum this up. Gear stats are getting taken out of the game. What I typed is from a 1v1 prospective. The things I’ve suggested to buff him has nothing to do with his zone or his stampede. You mentioning his zone is is hilarious considering Highlander can use 40 damage heavies in gank situations and toss and kick. Warden can bash you off the map, bash you into attacks. Glad toe stab opens you up to attacks etc etc etc. your points suck. The stamina he uses when he zones is ridiculous. Compared to the heroes I mentioned he is hot garbage. His zone is very parriable, In fact one of the easiest things to parry in the game. And it has a long startup and he can get hit out of it if he were doing the unlocked unblockable or not. So yes. He is not a beast. He’s hot garbage.

Those win rates aren’t even accurate btw and they are irrevant. Expected more from you charmzzz because you saw lawbringer win rate and said “impossible” and then you’re going to use those incorrect stats as evidence�� hilarious.

His zone, stampede, and stunning tap is all he has apart from guardbreaks.

ChampionRuby50G
Charmzzz
You guys clearly don’t understand.

Oh and again, dumb comments like the ones you two brought up are why nothing gets fixed in the game.

Again a funny guy.

So, it is us which are people causing problems ? Are you sure it is not you as someone judging so fast and saying we should use our head and even not comment if our opinions are not yours ?

Hum, that's a constructive, clever and open mindset for sure which gonna help yes yes.

Anyway, Champion and Charmzz, while you can disagree with some of their purpose as mine, are guys they know what they are talking so you're not looking very smart by just free trash talk them and me like that.

About Raider, if you think the most played char in 4v4 and ranked 3rd of all in this kind of mode is so trash.. hum you've got a problem somewhere or misunderstood how to use him and exploit correctly his strong tools.

I remember exactly what you just say : More chain, Faster light (so 400ms lights for a vanguard ??), less stam consumption and the best part .. tatata HA XD

Can you imagine (if you even understand his potential), how strong he would become ? It means he could engage with fast lights, brain you in an infinite way with lots of chain and low stam consumption and despite of his strong DMG and UB Zone, having HA on some heavies ... Do you even realize the unbalanced char it would be ?

My bad i didn't has the info Side heavies on GB was deleted, SORRY lol

But it doesn't change the fact your saying unbielivable things and Trash talking guys which show you why.

You should take your advices for yourself first.

Needsbalancing
09-27-2018, 06:00 PM
Again a funny guy.

So, it is us which are people causing problems ? Are you sure it is not you as someone judging so fast and saying we should use our head and even not comment if our opinions are not yours ?

Hum, that's a constructive, clever and open mindset for sure which gonna help yes yes.

Anyway, Champion and Charmzz, while you can disagree with some of their purpose as mine, are guys they know what they are talking so you're not looking very smart by just free trash talk them and me like that.

About Raider, if you think the most played char in 4v4 and ranked 3rd of all in this kind of mode is so trash.. hum you've got a problem somewhere or misunderstood how to use him and exploit correctly his strong tools.

I remember exactly what you just say : More chain, Faster light (so 400ms lights for a vanguard ??), less stam consumption and the best part .. tatata HA XD

Can you imagine (if you even understand his potential), how strong he would become ? It means he could engage with fast lights, brain you in an infinite way with lots of chain and low stam consumption and despite of his strong DMG and UB Zone, having HA on some heavies ... Do you even realize the unbalanced char it would be ?

My bad i didn't has the info Side heavies on GB was deleted, SORRY lol

But it doesn't change the fact your saying unbielivable things and Trash talking guys which show you why.

You should take your advices for yourself first.

Why do you even bother replying? Youíre an idiot. Obviously not 400ms. 500 ms If you have read my post. Ive stated facts against people who questioned it. You guys obviously dont know what you are talking about. You guys dont even understand a tier list. You guys are bronze players with 10 reps at most. My buffs I suggested wouldnt even matter in 4v4 you idiot. Either way raider will always chain into his unblockable regardless. So buffing his lights to 500 and giving his (FIRST) heavy in the chain armor along with (LESS) stam consumtion with a few chains isnt even that great. Like what dont you guys understand?
He wouldnt be unbalanced at all genius. Like i said it only gives him neutral pressure. His damage is good but he cant get any of it out. Why??? Because he has no way to do so. If you dont play raider or dont know anything about the game. Shut up. Raider is garbage. He needs a buff. That simple.

Heres a tip. Read and understand information before you type.

Dry.Fish
09-27-2018, 06:20 PM
Only problem Raider has is playing against assassins that turtle. Everything is countered by a fast light attack. So you're stuck using one of his many mix-ups. But that's no big deal really. If anything he could use a slight speed buff on his lights. Maybe just one direction only to possibly to be able to trade with assassins.

Needsbalancing
09-27-2018, 06:44 PM
Only problem Raider has is playing against assassins that turtle. Everything is countered by a fast light attack. So you're stuck using one of his many mix-ups. But that's no big deal really. If anything he could use a slight speed buff on his lights. Maybe just one direction only to possibly to be able to trade with assassins.

I really like this comment. Here Iíll give you the reason behind the buffs I suggested for raider.

500ms starting light- for trading and just to have a useful light. Because right now his starting lights only get him parried.

Hyper armor on Starting heavy and a slightly faster startup time because he literally canít use his heavy without getting smacked out of it.

More chain combos- Light into heavy into heavy cancel stunning tap etc

And slightly less stamina consumption on certain attacks.

Tell me how any of that is ďbrokenĒ The entire cast can hit him out of his starting heavy.

These changes I put up arenít that strong at all. Think of these buffs but in game. He can actually mix people up. Thatís really it. Tell me if Iím wrong though.

And for raider mix-ups he doesnít have many. They are all very predictable at this point.
Heavy soft feint stun tap, unblockable soft feint stun tap. Everything else is pretty easy to block.

Siegfried-Z
09-27-2018, 07:11 PM
Why do you even bother replying? Youíre an idiot. Obviously not 400ms. 500 ms If you have read my post. Ive stated facts against people who questioned it. You guys obviously dont know what you are talking about. You guys dont even understand a tier list. You guys are bronze players with 10 reps at most. My buffs I suggested wouldnt even matter in 4v4 you idiot. Either way raider will always chain into his unblockable regardless. So buffing his lights to 500 and giving his (FIRST) heavy in the chain armor along with (LESS) stam consumtion with a few chains isnt even that great. Like what dont you guys understand?
He wouldnt be unbalanced at all genius. Like i said it only gives him neutral pressure. His damage is good but he cant get any of it out. Why??? Because he has no way to do so. If you dont play raider or dont know anything about the game. Shut up. Raider is garbage. He needs a buff. That simple.

Heres a tip. Read and understand information before you type.

You just proove what i said first.. in one comment you said i'm an Idiot, to shut up or others nice things like that.

You're just a child who has no idea how to discuss normally and you gonna be bann fast enough.

Anyway you can explain in each comments the same thing. . I gonna still say how the hell the best pick or among in 4v4 need a buff?

You're talking agaisnt facts.

About 1v1 he is not that good but not all char are supposed To be good in both 1v1 and 4v4.
Raider area game is 4v4 .. that's all.

And if you want to buff him in order To make him better in 1v1.. then he has to receive a nerf on his zone to reduce his massive dmg in 4v4. Fair

And, just for your information, i should be a rep 10 ppl ranked bronze ?
Well i did not ranked this season but last one i was a DIAMOND 2 ranked player and i am rep 122.

You tried.

Specialkha
09-27-2018, 07:16 PM
You just proove what i said first.. in one comment you said i'm an Idiot, to shut up or others nice things like that.

You're just a child who has no idea how to discuss normally and you gonna be bann fast enough.

Anyway you can explain in each comments the same thing. . I gonna still say how the hell the best pick or among in 4v4 need a buff?

You're talking agaisnt facts.

About 1v1 he is not that good but not all char are supposed To be good in both 1v1 and 4v4.
Raider area game is 4v4 .. that's all.

And if you want to buff him in order To make him better in 1v1.. then he has to receive a nerf on his zone to reduce his massive dmg in 4v4. Fair

And, just for your information, i should be a rep 10 ppl ranked bronze ?
Well i did not ranked this season but last one i was a DIAMOND 2 ranked player and i am rep 122.

You tried.

Why do they bother releasing a matrix with winrate in 1v1 for all heroes if some heroes are not designed to 1v1 according to you?

Siegfried-Z
09-27-2018, 07:24 PM
Why do they bother releasing a matrix with winrate in 1v1 for all heroes if some heroes are not designed to 1v1 according to you?

Well because that's normal to show all 18 char in every mode .. it just would be weird To not do it.

I mean they said it themselves .. they have design char more oriented 4v4 and others more 1v1..

Even the diffťrence between assassins and some others show it.. i think i am not a fool to say char like pk, glad or shinobi are more about 1v1..

And i am glad this is like that.

Look at MF char .. that's the same . Jiang jun is a very good exemple .
Not so good in 1v1 but a beast in 4v4 .. that's what they wanted him To be.

TheTool85
09-27-2018, 07:27 PM
Hmm...
Looking at these winstats, then looking at the posts in this forum, the nerf this one and buff that one threats, the decisions ubi have made for future buffs or nerfs as written in the side notes below the win matrix, the actual complaints for some heroes followed by the sentence "yeah he/she is a noob stomper but in higher lvls of play he/she is trash..." when exactly these heroes belong to the top five (cent as an example) of duell list for the best 2.5% of the playerbase...
When data is released and, for some exceptions, it doesn't fit with your own personal expieriences ingame for the biggest part although you play this game since beta, when you are part of this forum, always tried to help and improve this game, make it succeed with your own ideas like veterans like knight raime, candle, champion or charmzzz to name a few did and still do, but their and other's opinions are strictly ignored by devs throughout, then i have to say that, in my opinion at least, the distance became too big.
The distance between us, the players, and you,ubi, the developers.
And, sadly, the distance within the playerbase for reasons unknown, as the threat topics in this forum in contrary to the win matrix proof i think.
Do i have a solution? No i haven't...
I just thought it would be helpfull to name a few problems that I see in this game.

My apologies, i'm not an native english speaker. Hope you could at least understand the main parts :)

Siegfried-Z
09-27-2018, 07:37 PM
Hmm...
Looking at these winstats, then looking at the posts in this forum, the nerf this one and buff that one threats, the decisions ubi have made for future buffs or nerfs as written in the side notes below the win matrix, the actual complaints for some heroes followed by the sentence "yeah he/she is a noob stomper but in higher lvls of play he/she is trash..." when exactly these heroes belong to the top five (cent as an example) of duell list for the best 2.5% of the playerbase...
When data is released and, for some exceptions, it doesn't fit with your own personal expieriences ingame for the biggest part although you play this game since beta, when you are part of this forum, always tried to help and improve this game, make it succeed with your own ideas like veterans like knight raime, candle, champion or charmzzz to name a few did and still do, but their and other's opinions are strictly ignored by devs throughout, then i have to say that, in my opinion at least, the distance became too big.
The distance between us, the players, and you,ubi, the developers.
And, sadly, the distance within the playerbase for reasons unknown, as the threat topics in this forum in contrary to the win matrix proof i think.
Do i have a solution? No i haven't...
I just thought it would be helpfull to name a few problems that I see in this game.

My apologies, i'm not an native english speaker. Hope you could at least understand the main parts :)

This guy doesn't have enough respect to do so saddly..

Needsbalancing
09-27-2018, 07:43 PM
You just proove what i said first.. in one comment you said i'm an Idiot, to shut up or others nice things like that.

You're just a child who has no idea how to discuss normally and you gonna be bann fast enough.

Anyway you can explain in each comments the same thing. . I gonna still say how the hell the best pick or among in 4v4 need a buff?

You're talking agaisnt facts.

About 1v1 he is not that good but not all char are supposed To be good in both 1v1 and 4v4.
Raider area game is 4v4 .. that's all.

And if you want to buff him in order To make him better in 1v1.. then he has to receive a nerf on his zone to reduce his massive dmg in 4v4. Fair

And, just for your information, i should be a rep 10 ppl ranked bronze ?
Well i did not ranked this season but last one i was a DIAMOND 2 ranked player and i am rep 122.

You tried.

Your information is always incorrect. The devs said they want everyone in duel to be viable. Making him viable in duel barely does anything to make him better in 4v4. Youre saying if he gets these buffs they would have to nerf his 4v4 potential. I can sit here and literally dispell everything you say. Ive actually already have. Your concern of him being broken is misplaced. Give me an argument so I can dispell it for you. Instead of you just saying it would be op how about you give an instance in 4v4 when it would be op.
Btw the stat charts are inaccurate for all those who dont know yet.

Im masters btw and Im only rep 37 funny how someone who plays as much as you have still cant grasp the basics.

You saying that raider doesnt need a buff is simply confusing. Surely you know how he is viewed by the community right? C tier at best. Please tell me how the buffs I have suggested would make him op. Oh and stop referring to the stats the devs put up. They are inaccurate.

Siegfried-Z
09-27-2018, 08:18 PM
Your information is always incorrect. The devs said they want everyone in duel to be viable. Making him viable in duel barely does anything to make him better in 4v4. Youre saying if he gets these buffs they would have to nerf his 4v4 potential. I can sit here and literally dispell everything you say. Ive actually already have. Your concern of him being broken is misplaced. Give me an argument so I can dispell it for you. Instead of you just saying it would be op how about you give an instance in 4v4 when it would be op.
Btw the stat charts are inaccurate for all those who dont know yet.

Im masters btw and Im only rep 37 funny how someone who plays as much as you have still cant grasp the basics.

You saying that raider doesnt need a buff is simply confusing. Surely you know how he is viewed by the community right? C tier at best. Please tell me how the buffs I have suggested would make him op. Oh and stop referring to the stats the devs put up. They are inaccurate.

The fact you dont agree with me dont mean this is incorrect.

I am far To be the only one believing Raider is not garbage.

Say you can dispell argue how much you want.. but i am.not going To explain you again things i've already explain to someone who says that a buff for 1v1 doesnt not makes him better in 4v4. And then now stats are not a fact . . Ok ok.

I know very how he is view by the community .. not good in 1v1 but a beast in 4v4 but it doesn't change my mind.

Thť fact guys as charmz or Champion have comment on my side on this just confort me in my opinion .

Funny how a Guy rep37 believe he is good .. Master ? Agaisnt player who are rep 20-40 .. And you think you're good ? Just arrogant.

Come back at rep 100 and more saying you still Master and then beat some ytubers or best ppl.

We are obviously not at the same level as on my side i've been matched in game with Guy as Tom Legend or I AM RSSS which. .You can check on fhtr are in the top 10 ppl.

Needsbalancing
09-27-2018, 08:31 PM
The fact you dont agree with me dont mean this is incorrect.

I am far To be the only one believing Raider is not garbage.

Say you can dispell argue how much you want.. but i am.not going To explain you again things i've already explain to someone who says that a buff for 1v1 doesnt not makes him better in 4v4. And then now stats are not a fact . . Ok ok.

I know very how he is view by the community .. not good in 1v1 but a beast in 4v4 but it doesn't change my mind.

Thť fact guys as charmz or Champion have comment on my side on this just confort me in my opinion .

Funny how a Guy rep37 believe he is good .. Master ? Agaisnt player who are rep 20-40 .. And you think you're good ? Just arrogant.

Come back at rep 100 and more saying you still Master and then beat some ytubers or best ppl.

We are obviously not at the same level as on my side i've been matched in game with Guy as Tom Legend or I AM RSSS which. .You can check on fhtr are in the top 10 ppl.

Again nothing you say makes any sense.In ranked they match you up with people of all reps. Since Im ranked high I only play people with reps 50-200
So that point you made about me playing low reps were invalid. And the people high in ranked know how to play the game. Even abuse some mechanics.

You saying that two people who were also incorrect have your back is also irrevant.
You still haven't told me how my buffs would make him overpowered.

The buffs that he would receive would in no way make him Op in 4v4 his main strengths are zone and stampede which isnt getting touched. So regardless of the buff he would always do the same thing in 4v4.

And yes the stats the the devs put up are indeed inaccurate because it includes all the new players, the ones who got the game for free and tested it for a bit. All of that is included in this.

All you are doing is saying nonsense. Hate to break it to you but raider isn't a good hero. The way you're talking its as if you've haven't played the game since launch.

Again all you've done is type nonsense and spread incorrect information.

You are welcome to try to debate the buffs I proposed for raider whenever you want. Try to bring up an actual point or instances in which he would be OP.

You saying raider isn't garbage is hilarious. Thats like saying lawbringer is a good hero.

Thanks
#Balance

Specialkha
09-27-2018, 08:40 PM
In 1v1, raider is not strong, he is below average. What makes him strong in 4v4 is Steampede charge and zone. Obviously, any kind of buff to its 1v1 capacity will make him stronger in 4v4 overall.

Needsbalancing
09-27-2018, 08:45 PM
In 1v1, raider is not strong, he is below average. What makes him strong in 4v4 is Steampede charge and zone. Obviously, any kind of buff to its 1v1 capacity will make him stronger in 4v4 overall.

Exactly but it wouldnt make him op. His main tools are stampede and his zone. The buffs I proposed would in no way make him op in 4v4. Simply more viable overall.

TheTool85
09-27-2018, 09:08 PM
This guy doesn't have enough respect to do so saddly..
Uhmm.. you mean me with this guy? Sorry if i did offend you, still i don't know why you should b3 offended by this post of mine. Will you please tell me what i did wrong?

Illyrian_King
09-27-2018, 09:16 PM
Feels like Lawbringer won't see daylight for a loooong long time ;b

Siegfried-Z
09-27-2018, 10:43 PM
Again nothing you say makes any sense.In ranked they match you up with people of all reps. Since Im ranked high I only play people with reps 50-200
So that point you made about me playing low reps were invalid. And the people high in ranked know how to play the game. Even abuse some mechanics.

You saying that two people who were also incorrect have your back is also irrevant.
You still haven't told me how my buffs would make him overpowered.

The buffs that he would receive would in no way make him Op in 4v4 his main strengths are zone and stampede which isnt getting touched. So regardless of the buff he would always do the same thing in 4v4.

And yes the stats the the devs put up are indeed inaccurate because it includes all the new players, the ones who got the game for free and tested it for a bit. All of that is included in this.

All you are doing is saying nonsense. Hate to break it to you but raider isn't a good hero. The way you're talking its as if you've haven't played the game since launch.

Again all you've done is type nonsense and spread incorrect information.

You are welcome to try to debate the buffs I proposed for raider whenever you want. Try to bring up an actual point or instances in which he would be OP.

You saying raider isn't garbage is hilarious. Thats like saying lawbringer is a good hero.

Thanks
#Balance

And again you're just an arrogant guy.
Again speaking line your words are godlike .
Again putting stupid flashy title on your post.

I can do it to and we could continue To have this officiel thread as our personnal discussion.

First, i said **** about the rep and level match correlation just in order To see you saying the opposite thing you said before .
You said that my rank is ridiculous for someone playing as much as me .. but then after your last post You agree reps means nothing with level (just a bit) and then you said stupid things just To trash talk me again .
And, diamond 2 is very close To master so dont be ridiculous saying this is a noob rank.

Also, it is again only you who said the 2 others were wrong .. but man you're the man not listening and not Reading. . Just sticking at your same words post after post.

As i already said Raider doesn't need a buff.

He is a Monster for what he is design to be.

You firstly talk To makes lights faster plus less stam cons and HA and new chain etc etc

My purpose is he doesnt need it .
Or if Yes, then he deserved a zone nerf .. You like to use the Word balance.. then this is balance.

Balance a char is not buffing him in terms of speed, stam, mooveset, HA etc with no nerf in another hand while he is the 4v4 king already.

That's my opinion and a lot of players are really tired of his broken unlock zone .

You want to know who speaks nonsense :
-1v1 buff doesn't mean makes hum stronger in 4v4
-raider is pure garbage
-charmz and champion are saying ******** too
-stats are not To take in consideration at all
-spreading insults at everyone who disagree but falling in love To a Guy just saying agree for faster light 😅

And to answer you, LB is still good in 4v4.

Anyway, you gonna answer with another arrogant post which not gonna get an answer from me.

Dont have time for a rep37 Guy thinking he is the only true opinion arround there .

Siegfried-Z
09-27-2018, 10:44 PM
Uhmm.. you mean me with this guy? Sorry if i did offend you, still i don't know why you should b3 offended by this post of mine. Will you please tell me what i did wrong?

No no not you man ;) the other spreading insult all arround. Dont worry

ChampionRuby50g
09-27-2018, 10:51 PM
Lol so Iím in the top 1% of players on Xbox globally, yet I donít know what Iím talking about and itís my fault the game isnít progressing. Thanks for making me laugh this morning.

In 1v1, yes Raider is lacking. I could get behind 500ms lights for him. But in 4v4 he is a must pick for any team that wants to be sweaty. One stampede charge, with one enemy around = dead.

Whiff stunning tap, unlock the zone to a different target, deal 50+ or more damage in revenge = beast mode.

I have 180 reps, but please, tell me more about how I know nothing and ruin this game. Your posts seem more like the biased, mindless raving of someone who is in the deep end.

Siegfried-Z
09-28-2018, 12:01 AM
Lol so Iím in the top 1% of players on Xbox globally, yet I donít know what Iím talking about and itís my fault the game isnít progressing. Thanks for making me laugh this morning.

In 1v1, yes Raider is lacking. I could get behind 500ms lights for him. But in 4v4 he is a must pick for any team that wants to be sweaty. One stampede charge, with one enemy around = dead.

Whiff stunning tap, unlock the zone to a different target, deal 50+ or more damage in revenge = beast mode.

I have 180 reps, but please, tell me more about how I know nothing and ruin this game. Your posts seem more like the biased, mindless raving of someone who is in the deep end.

This guy is just lost in his wrong believings and prefer saying stats and experiments players feedbacks are just wrong after 37rep in the game... 😒😒

CandleInTheDark
09-28-2018, 12:04 AM
And yes the stats the the devs put up are indeed inaccurate because it includes all the new players, the ones who got the game for free and tested it for a bit. All of that is included in this.

Not weighing in on the rest of it but you're wrong there. 1v1 takes the top 2.5%, 4v4 takes the top 4%. The chart shows the heroes in the hands of people at the highest and roughly of equal skill level.

Needsbalancing
09-28-2018, 02:11 AM
Not weighing in on the rest of it but you're wrong there. 1v1 takes the top 2.5%, 4v4 takes the top 4%. The chart shows the heroes in the hands of people at the highest and roughly of equal skill level.

Still doesnt matter though. But thanks.

Needsbalancing
09-28-2018, 02:16 AM
This guy is just lost in his wrong believings and prefer saying stats and experiments players feedbacks are just wrong after 37rep in the game... 😒😒

Look buddy. You tell me how the buffs I put up would bother 4v4. Clearly you havent read everything. Pointing the way to blind people is hard work. His zone will still he his stronger tool with or without the buff so you mentioning 4v4 is literally pointless. Jeeezz its like talking to a wall mr 180 reps and still doesnt see the point.

Needsbalancing
09-28-2018, 02:29 AM
Lol so Iím in the top 1% of players on Xbox globally, yet I donít know what Iím talking about and itís my fault the game isnít progressing. Thanks for making me laugh this morning.

In 1v1, yes Raider is lacking. I could get behind 500ms lights for him. But in 4v4 he is a must pick for any team that wants to be sweaty. One stampede charge, with one enemy around = dead.

Whiff stunning tap, unlock the zone to a different target, deal 50+ or more damage in revenge = beast mode.

I have 180 reps, but please, tell me more about how I know nothing and ruin this game. Your posts seem more like the biased, mindless raving of someone who is in the deep end.

You donít seem to get it smart guy. The buffs proposed isnít changing anything. Raider is always going to use the zone and tap for the 70 dmg regardless of the buff or not. Your problems have nothing to do what Iím talking about. You guys are just mad I pointed you out to be idiots. IM NOT A RADIER MAIN I DONT GIVE A SINGLE **** IF HE GETS BUFFED OR NOT. Itís a suggestion to those who understand he is garbage in 1v1. So what he is strong in 4v4 the only thing that makes him strong 4v4 is his stampede and zone neither of which are being touched. So regardless youíre getting the same problem. You smart guys are talking out of your ***. But nice work for literally nothing.



Itís not about if you think he is a good hero or not.
Raider is a limited hero. That simple. Regardless of what you think he is butt in duel. No one cares about 4v4 the buffs I mentioned wonít even disrupt 4v4.


#Balance

Needsbalancing
09-28-2018, 02:38 AM
Buff Ideas for every underwhelming hero, except aramusha and Goki
Buff ideas /Something I typed in response
To the devs blog.

Please pay attention to whenever I say ďmaybeĒ.
Please feel free to debate the things Iíve typed down below.
Please have an open mind and think of how these buffs/nerfs would translate to the game etc.

Feint****

Well Iím going to give a list of everyone who needs a look into and my small suggestions as to how they should be buffed.

Iíve played a lot of this game and I hope that Ubisoft can agree with the things I will mention.

Raider needs a lot more chains(Light into heavy etc) and faster lights(500ms). Maybe hyper armor on his heavies(The first heavy in the chain),faster heavy startup, less stamina consumption. Zone dmg reduction to 35

Warlord also needs more chains and a solid all guard stance that guarantees punishes. Maybe even an unblockable.

Peacekeeper needs a small damage buff and less stamina consumption or at least faster stamina recovery. Her guardbreak should guarantee her a heavy(one that does 25-27 damage)from any direction that she canít follow up into a bleed stab.
Maybe an unblockable similar to gladiators toe stab.(stabs chest with dagger quickly, 8 damage)

Lawbringer needs a lot more chains, faster lights(500ms), faster chains, Maybe even hyper armor on some heavies,Less stamina consumption,an reliable opener and maybe a change to shove on block. Maybe give him a proper bash.

Nobushi needs more chains, faster lights(NOT 400ms), less stamina consumption.

Centurion needs an opener, maybe a chargeable kick similar to warden shoulder bash, cancelable zone attack.

Shinobi needs more options, more chains, an unblockable maybe, cancelable zone attack.

Aramusha Iím not to sure what to do with. He is basically a weaker bezerker at this point. He definitely needs some changes however because he is among of the weakest in the cast.

Shugoki NEEDS A REWORK.

The rest of the cast is fine in all honesty. If I were to change things to any of the characters not mentioned it would be....

Orochi should get an unblockable similar to gladiator. Better guard break throw.

Shamans bite damage reduction to 40 but increased healing. Maybe more chains.

Conq bash being punishable like wardens shoulder bash.

Warden more chains, canít faint shoulder bash after you are already into the bash itself.
Meaning once he starts moving forward he canít faint it.

Highlander faster normal lights, more punishable caber toss.

Valkyrie should get more damage on her guardbreak and first in chain heavies.(25-27)

Hereís a tier list as well in my opinion.

A tier: Orochi,Shaman,Valkyrie, Highlander, Shinobi.

B tier: Centerion, Nobushi, Warlord, Peacekeeper.

C tier: Raider, Aramusha, Lawbringer.

D tier: Shugoki.

S tier: Warden, Conqueror, Kensei, Gladiator, Berzerker.

The heroes in S tier that I think need nerfs are....

Wardens charged shoulder bash faint(If he starts the bash, as In him already doing the bash, like moving forward) this shouldnít be a thing. Keep his bash the same just donít allow him to faint while he already started the bash.

Conquerors Sheild bash needs to be more vulnerable.


This is my opinion and most of the communities as well(In terms with which heroes need some adjusting). Plenty of videos on why these characters needs nerfs and buffs. Sorry if I restated anything. Iím just going off all of my experiences in game and all the communities feedback.

The data showed in the graphs were pretty inaccurate. The players of the game know whatís best. Especially the really dedicated ones who understand the games mechanics.

Ubisoft please take this into consideration and make your community happy.

#Balance.

ChampionRuby50g
09-28-2018, 03:24 AM
You just lost the little credibility you had when you said ďBuffs proposed doesnít change anythingĒ.

Thatís the whole point of buffing a class isnít it, to change them and make them better? lol you go on about everyoneís reading, but donít stop to take a second and think about what you are saying. Saying buffs wonít effect 4v4 is the epitome of idiocy. You give him those tools for 1v1 without thinking about how theyíll effect the other game modes, itís a recipe for a broken hero. Youíve had multiple people tell you that youíre wrong, but you canít read either it seems.

Raider doesnít need hyper armor, thereís already too much of it in the game. Already said 500ms lights would be fine. To reach a compromise, if he gets the buffs you want him to, he needs to be nerfed in other areas such as the stampede charge. Make it so any attack makes raider drop the enemy, drains less stamina.

Needsbalancing
09-28-2018, 03:44 AM
You just lost the little credibility you had when you said ďBuffs proposed doesnít change anythingĒ.

Thatís the whole point of buffing a class isnít it, to change them and make them better? lol you go on about everyoneís reading, but donít stop to take a second and think about what you are saying. Saying buffs wonít effect 4v4 is the epitome of idiocy. You give him those tools for 1v1 without thinking about how theyíll effect the other game modes, itís a recipe for a broken hero. Youíve had multiple people tell you that youíre wrong, but you canít read either it seems.

Raider doesnít need hyper armor, thereís already too much of it in the game. Already said 500ms lights would be fine. To reach a compromise, if he gets the buffs you want him to, he needs to be nerfed in other areas such as the stampede charge. Make it so any attack makes raider drop the enemy, drains less stamina.

Let me spell it out for you because you're illiterate
I said the buffs I proposed for raider wouldnt make him broken. You idiots said he would be broken in 4v4 based on him using his zone and stampede in combination with the buffs I proposed. He is strong in 4v4 with revenge and zone with stampede. The buffs I mentioned wouldn't really come into play in 4v4 LIKE I SAID COUNTLESS TIMES- WITH OR WITHOUT THE BUFFS HE WOULD STILL ONLY HAVE THE ZONE FOR GANKS. The only time he could use anything else is when he is in revenge so i doesnt matter if his light is faster or if he has armor on the heavy because revenge gives you armor. Just because three of you brought up the same inncorrect point doesnt mean you are correct. You are all wrong. Not one of you can give a single instance on how the buffs I have suggested would make him broken in 4v4. Raider isnt even that important. There are literally 17 other heroes being talked about.


AGAIN. GIVE EVIDENCE FOR YOUR CLAIM INSTEAD OF A SIMPLE HE SAID SHE SAID.

I have considered the other game modes and if you can read certainly you can see that with and without the buffs raiders strongest tools are still Zone and stampede. The buffs dont make that better or worse.

Learn to read.

Charmzzz
09-28-2018, 07:47 AM
Let me spell it out for you because you're illiterate
I said the buffs I proposed for raider wouldnt make him broken. You idiots said he would be broken in 4v4 based on him using his zone and stampede in combination with the buffs I proposed. He is strong in 4v4 with revenge and zone with stampede. The buffs I mentioned wouldn't really come into play in 4v4 LIKE I SAID COUNTLESS TIMES- WITH OR WITHOUT THE BUFFS HE WOULD STILL ONLY HAVE THE ZONE FOR GANKS. The only time he could use anything else is when he is in revenge so i doesnt matter if his light is faster or if he has armor on the heavy because revenge gives you armor. Just because three of you brought up the same inncorrect point doesnt mean you are correct. You are all wrong. Not one of you can give a single instance on how the buffs I have suggested would make him broken in 4v4. Raider isnt even that important. There are literally 17 other heroes being talked about.


AGAIN. GIVE EVIDENCE FOR YOUR CLAIM INSTEAD OF A SIMPLE HE SAID SHE SAID.

I have considered the other game modes and if you can read certainly you can see that with and without the buffs raiders strongest tools are still Zone and stampede. The buffs dont make that better or worse.

Learn to read.

Uhm, the evidence is right in the Stats: Winrate 53% (No. 3) and Pickrate 10.5% (No. 1) for Dominion. You want to buff an extremely highly picked and absolute Meta Hero even more? This is ridiculous... Doesn't matter if your suggested buffs would not change anything about Stampede or Zone, fact is he is THE MOST PICKED Hero in high level Dominion games, and the reason for that is that his tools are already fcking great. Buff him more so he will be unstoppable, be it 1v1 or 4v4? Nah Bro, having such good ganking and group fighting tools HAS to have a backdraw (still, Kensei, but whatever, the Devs have no idea I guess...).

Siegfried-Z
09-28-2018, 08:50 AM
Still doesnt matter though. But thanks.

You're insane ^^ So just there we show you you are the one spreading wrong statements all arround and with facts below your eyes and then just answer : "still doesn't matter" :rolleyes:


Look buddy. You tell me how the buffs I put up would bother 4v4. Clearly you havent read everything. Pointing the way to blind people is hard work. His zone will still he his stronger tool with or without the buff so you mentioning 4v4 is literally pointless. Jeeezz its like talking to a wall mr 180 reps and still doesnt see the point.

The problem is, i understand you're speaking for 1v1. BUT, what i say is it would makes him stronger in 4v4.. that's just logic man. And Raider is crazy good in 4v4... he is not oblige to be as much in 1v1 too. That's all. Ok you're speaking 1v1 and us 4v4 but why ? because he is very strong in 4v4 and don't want him to become an unstopable truck.

And btw the rep 180 is Champion, i'm rep 123.


Let me spell it out for you because you're illiterate
I said the buffs I proposed for raider wouldnt make him broken. You idiots said he would be broken in 4v4 based on him using his zone and stampede in combination with the buffs I proposed. He is strong in 4v4 with revenge and zone with stampede. The buffs I mentioned wouldn't really come into play in 4v4 LIKE I SAID COUNTLESS TIMES- WITH OR WITHOUT THE BUFFS HE WOULD STILL ONLY HAVE THE ZONE FOR GANKS. The only time he could use anything else is when he is in revenge so i doesnt matter if his light is faster or if he has armor on the heavy because revenge gives you armor. Just because three of you brought up the same inncorrect point doesnt mean you are correct. You are all wrong. Not one of you can give a single instance on how the buffs I have suggested would make him broken in 4v4. Raider isnt even that important. There are literally 17 other heroes being talked about.


AGAIN. GIVE EVIDENCE FOR YOUR CLAIM INSTEAD OF A SIMPLE HE SAID SHE SAID.

I have considered the other game modes and if you can read certainly you can see that with and without the buffs raiders strongest tools are still Zone and stampede. The buffs dont make that better or worse.

Learn to read.

You're sauing nonsense as hell... your words are, anyway he still gonna have zone and stampede in 4V4 so my buff proposal wouldn't makes him stronger in 4V4... but man, it is like saying my car already has 300ch so if i boost it to 400ch it doesn't change anything my car is just powerfull anyway.. do you realize ?

Of course Faster lights, better stam and chain + HA would makes him stronger cmbined with stampede and zone .. that's a logic consequence as 2 + 2 + 4.... Or you've read 1984 of George Orwell too much and are sure it is equal to 5 :D

The discussion became trash because you directly answer to me very agressive and with insults after my first comments were nothing was agressive... as you said "feel free to debate with me" i though you were more open minded oriented.

But, for someone who don't give a **** about raider, why are you so trash and blind while people which are known for giving overall accurate and constructive feedbacks on this forum says to you you're wrong.. you just insults everyone.. you says you spend lot of time to the game but you're a rep37 man... Even candle has comment which is rare here other than Den recap so you should take a breath, read your own comments and get back trying to give normal answer.

Needsbalancing
09-28-2018, 12:33 PM
Ive literally reviewed this with a bunch of people.
Youre telling me that a starting 500ms starting light , Hyper Armor on starting heavy, and a few chains would make raider broken in 4v4.

You three are saying he is already strong in 4v4 so the buffs would just make him better in 4v4. Yes it will but its not changing the fact that with or without the buff his strongest tool will remain being his zone and charge. You guys dont understand what that means.

In a gank what does raider do?
Zone and stampede right? What raider would instead use a 500ms light, or a heavy with hyper armor. Does that make any sense to you? No it doesn't.

(Incase you still donít get it. It means regardless of buffs the best thing he can do would be the zone and stampede)

If this doesn't help you understand I don't know what will.

You guys are saying something would be strong without translating it to the game.

P.S You three are actually dumb....... lol

P.S.S Sorry if I came off to be rude. I get really pationate about this game. I dont think you guys are dumb. And for my 37 reps I know and understand how to play the game and I know how to play everyone on the cast.

P.S.S.S But yeah again sorry If Ive gotten you angry.

Siegfried-Z
09-28-2018, 01:10 PM
Ive literally reviewed this with a bunch of people.
Youre telling me that a starting 500ms starting light , Hyper Armor on starting heavy, and a few chains would make raider broken in 4v4.

You three are saying he is already strong in 4v4 so the buffs would just make him better in 4v4. Yes it will but its not changing the fact that with or without the buff his strongest tool will remain being his zone and charge. You guys dont understand what that means.

In a gank what does raider do?
Zone and stampede right? What raider would instead use a 500ms light, or a heavy with hyper armor. Does that make any sense to you? No it doesn't.

(Incase you still don’t get it. It means regardless of buffs the best thing he can do would be the zone and stampede)

If this doesn't help you understand I don't know what will.

You guys are saying something would be strong without translating it to the game.

P.S You three are actually dumb....... lol

P.S.S Sorry if I came off to be rude. I get really pationate about this game. I dont think you guys are dumb. And for my 37 reps I know and understand how to play the game and I know how to play everyone on the cast.

P.S.S.S But yeah again sorry If Ive gotten you angry.

The fact is we actually hear you, and understand what you're saying, that's not the point anymore.

But do you really believe he's not gonna use his HA etc if he get it because he has others tools ? It is like saying because Warden now has an UB, he would not use his SB anymore in Gank.. well no, he use both..; and HA + few new chains are a good thing in anti gank situation.. so it would help him even in Gank.

Of course it is not a massive buff.. but it is one and as i already said.. if he get that (because why not) then in another hand his zone dmg should be nerf. That's my point nothing more.

If he didn't receive any nerf, the only thing he should have to help him in 1v1 is opening lights at 500ms, nothing more.

And again, stop finishing your comment with words as dumb or idiots because you're the one looking like that by always insulting others. I know you can do it, your last comment was almost correct till your PS points lol

Needsbalancing
09-28-2018, 02:09 PM
[QUOTE=Siegfried-Z;13700268]The fact is we actually hear you, and understand what you're saying, that's not the point anymore.

But do you really believe he's not gonna use his HA etc if he get it because he has others tools ? It is like saying because Warden now has an UB, he would not use his SB anymore in Gank.. well no, he use both..; and HA + few new chains are a good thing in anti gank situation.. so it would help him even in Gank.

Of course it is not a massive buff.. but it is one and as i already said.. if he get that (because why not) then in another hand his zone dmg should be nerf. That's my point nothing more.

If he didn't receive any nerf, the only thing he should have to help him in 1v1 is opening lights at 500ms, nothing more.

And again, stop finishing your comment with words as dumb or idiots because you're the one looking like that by always insulting others. I know you can do it, your last comment was almost correct till your PS points lol[/QUOTE


Yes I mentioned that it would help him in 4v4 but like you said its not a massive buff. Thatís not being debated.
Yes I also think his zone needs a damage nerf.

My point is that he wouldnít be broken. Itís more of the same old same old. The only way raider was able to do a heavy into unblockable without getting hit out is in revenge. That wouldnít change. He could still be stopped in his tracks just fine.

Raider would be the same hero for the most part just stronger in 1v1 which is the goal.

Charmzzz
09-28-2018, 02:23 PM
Yes I mentioned that it would help him in 4v4 but like you said its not a massive buff. That’s not being debated.
Yes I also think his zone needs a damage nerf.

My point is that he wouldn’t be broken. It’s more of the same old same old. The only way raider was able to do a heavy into unblockable without getting hit out is in revenge. That wouldn’t change. He could still be stopped in his tracks just fine.

Raider would be the same hero for the most part just stronger in 1v1 which is the goal.

Wait, you wanted him to have HA. Where exactly? Because if he would get HA e.g. after a Light - he would be able to use his now Hyperarmored Chained Zone EVEN without Revenge all the time. O.o

Siegfried-Z
09-28-2018, 02:50 PM
[QUOTE=Siegfried-Z;13700268]The fact is we actually hear you, and understand what you're saying, that's not the point anymore.

But do you really believe he's not gonna use his HA etc if he get it because he has others tools ? It is like saying because Warden now has an UB, he would not use his SB anymore in Gank.. well no, he use both..; and HA + few new chains are a good thing in anti gank situation.. so it would help him even in Gank.

Of course it is not a massive buff.. but it is one and as i already said.. if he get that (because why not) then in another hand his zone dmg should be nerf. That's my point nothing more.

If he didn't receive any nerf, the only thing he should have to help him in 1v1 is opening lights at 500ms, nothing more.

And again, stop finishing your comment with words as dumb or idiots because you're the one looking like that by always insulting others. I know you can do it, your last comment was almost correct till your PS points lol[/QUOTE


Yes I mentioned that it would help him in 4v4 but like you said its not a massive buff. That’s not being debated.
Yes I also think his zone needs a damage nerf.

My point is that he wouldn’t be broken. It’s more of the same old same old. The only way raider was able to do a heavy into unblockable without getting hit out is in revenge. That wouldn’t change. He could still be stopped in his tracks just fine.

Raider would be the same hero for the most part just stronger in 1v1 which is the goal.

Well, said like that with a zone nerf, i could agree with these changes because it would not increase his 4v4 efficiency but just his 1v1. WOW, finally ! ^^


Wait, you wanted him to have HA. Where exactly? Because if he would get HA e.g. after a Light - he would be able to use his now Hyperarmored Chained Zone EVEN without Revenge all the time. O.o

He think about it just on the opening heavy hopefully ;)

Needsbalancing
09-28-2018, 10:02 PM
But yeah this is what I was trying to say from the start I just couldn't get the message across because I was being rude.

The new armor sets are pretty cool if you guys didnt see them yet.

Buggy.Blaster
09-29-2018, 02:19 AM
this chart is complete ********! there is no way the glad is that low in top tier play and on pc. This means nothing when you put all the platforms into one chart. Sorry but it shows nothing other than the fact that the game is not balanced at all and your hiding the actual results of each platform.

NinjaRonin85
09-29-2018, 11:02 AM
Buff I would like for raider is, stunning tap from any direction, able to soft faint heavy into stampede charge, able to dodge into stampede charge. Lmao