PDA

View Full Version : Changes I think would be interesting, across the board



PepsiBeastin
09-25-2018, 07:26 PM
Universal changes:
--- Jump attacks no longer have hyperarmor, and are canceled upon receiving damage.
--- Jump attacks that hit a barrier will cause a knockdown to the player, canceling the attack and dealing stamina damage/stunning. (This is to fix jump attacks sliding along walls and fences to track at unnatural angles)
-Unlocking while in a dodge no longer results in a roll
-Assassins moving their guard while activating revenge no longer doesn't auto-parry incoming attacks
-NOTHING prevents revenge activation


Warden-
-Shoulder bash no longer feintable after release
-Shoulder bash soft feintable into valiant breakthrough, but normal shoulder bash feint has slight recovery
-Decreased tracking on valiant breakthrough, only tracks harshly against rolling opponents
-Zone changed to apollyon's unblockable thrust but a bit sped up, soft feintable into shoulder bash
-Valiant breakthrough parry now counts as a light parry
-Fully charged shoulder bash now drains a large amount of stamina and knocks opponent to the ground, only guaranteeing side heavy unless against a wall. (Wall splat will take priority over knockdown, and wall splat guarantees top heavy)


Raider-
-Stunning tap speed increased but tracking decreased
-Zone now comes from whatever side your guard is on, top zone is sped up but does less damage
-Can no longer carry when out of stamina
-Out of lock grab no longer tracks, and causes raider to "trip" similar to a countered shinobi, giving a chance to punish.


Kensei-
-Besides side heavy finishers, attacks no longer cause kensei to lunge forward, artifically increasing his range higher than raider/nobushi
-Only kensei's dodge has dodge frames, once he starts a dodge heavy all attacks hit him like usual. (Similar to nobushi dodges. This is a trade off, you sacrifice your defense for offensive capabilities)
-Dodge heavy now counts as a light parry
-Can feint top heavy into guardbreak, before the timing of pommel strike

Conqueror-
-Increased recovery on missed bash
-Decreased time to initiate bash after dodge, no longer can he do a bash nearly 400ms after dodge
-Full guard activation decreased to 300ms, to make it more accessable
-On successful full guard block, can get a free guardbreak

Warlord-
-Removed tracking on out of lock shield rush
-If out of stamina, can no longer initiate shield carry
-On missed shield rush, lose 30 stamina and increase recovery to give a chance to punish
-Can now hold heavy for a pseudo full-guard, when guard is changed and heavy is released, shield blocks the side the heavy was held. (If a heavy is being held at the right and is launched from top guard, guard will stay right and heavy will attack top. Will be similar to how orochi can change his guard in storm rush mode without his opponent seeing)

Shugoki-
-Can combo heavies and lights in any order, similar to valkyrie.
--Comboed heavies can now be charged.
--Combo finisher heavy is unblockable and quicker than charged heavy.
--Combo finisher light stuns enemy.
--Charged heavy no longer gives a free guardbreak to a downed opponent standing up.
--Any heavy can now be soft feinted into demon's embrace with more variable timing.
-- Headbutt can be used after any comboed heavy or light, but is only guaranteed with a landed light attack, or a blocked heavy attack.
---Headbutt can now ledge, down OOS opponents, and wallsplat.
----Headbutt can now be comboed after a whiffed attack, but is not guaranteed then.
-Demons embrace slightly sped up and given better tracking, while removing 1 hit capabilities.
--Demons embrace now does healing/damage proportional to the amount of health shugoki has left. At full health, demons embrace will deal 50 damage and heal for nothing. For every 25 health Shugoki is missing, decrease demons embrace damage by 8 and increase health gained by 10. (A shugoki in critical health would deal 10 damage, and heal 50 health on demons embrace.)
--Health lost on demons embrace now 70% of damage it would have healed, reflecting Shugoki's present strength.
--Removed large recovery time on demon's embrace.
-Removed received damage bonus when hyper armor is lost.

Peacekeeper-
-Bleed feint can now come from any direction
-Zone attack now 600ms, and second hit is a 500ms attack with changable direction that applies bleed
-On deflect, peacekeeper can now press guardbreak to initiate a "backstab". Similar to orochi's heavy deflect, this move will be risky yet grant 40 bleed damage and drain stamina. If dodged, it grants a free guardbreak.
--Backstab is feintable into dodge.

Berserker-
-Hyperarmor now gained after 3rd attack, and removed from feint lights.
-Damage scales with length of combo, and berserker gains a glow when max damage boost is reached. (5 attacks, extra 5% damage for each attack after the first, up to 20% damage boost) (Note that he would be able to launch a zone to "frenzy", immediately reaching his full boosted damage.)
--The higher berserker's damage boost is, the more damage he will take from incoming attacks. (extra 2% damage taken per attack, up to 10%)

Orochi-
-Riptide strike input changed to walking back + light, similar to pre-rework.
--New chargeable riptide strike added from backwalk + heavy, named tsunami crash. When fully charged, gains hyperarmor and unblockable with increased damage.
--Zone attack changed to Tozen's kick, deals stamina damage and stuns.
--Tozen's kick, now named Typhoon sweep, kicks the opponent in the direction walk is being held, besides backwards. It can ledge, wallsplat, and knock down OOS opponents.
--Only side heavy or double top light is guaranteed from Typhoon sweep, unless opponent is downed.
-The running portion of storm rush now occurs much faster, but guard is visable 600ms before attack lands.
--Storm rush now soft feintable with dodge.


Lawbringer-
- Must be sprinting for 4 seconds before impaling charge can be used.
-The pancake flip (not sure what it's called) now lands faster, and can be feinted into light.
- Shove deals more stamina damage, but cannot be directly followed up with a guardbreak.
--After successful shove, lawbringer can initiate a faster version of his parry unblockable that will track dodges.
- When blocking an attack, stamina is drained from opponent

Valkyrie-
-Shield charge now runs quicker, has hyperarmor, and can be soft feinted into a sweep to catch dodges.
-Heavy to shield bash feint slowed down a bit, but is hard feintable to neutral.

Nobushi-
-All dodge attacks slightly sped up
-Hidden stance now allows for attacks to be used more quickly, rather than having to wait a moment
-Dodges can now be cancelled with hidden stance

Centurion-
-Slight decrease to heavy speed
-Charged punch now tracks similar to warden's charged bash
-Charged heavy pin damage increased, with more stamina damage on knockdown punch
--Eagles talon damage decreased
-Unblockable heavy now holds opponent in place for a moment and if guardbreak is pressed, centurion kicks the opponent off of his blade letting him initiate a more damaging form of eagle's talon, "Lion's maw".
-New move, Lion's maw. Only usable in place of eagle's talon on after an unblockable charged heavy, centurion dives forward and tackles the opponent, stabbing them. Has a higher recovery time than eagle's talon for both user and opponent.

Highlander-
-Offensive dodges normalized to 500ms, but are now immune to guardbreak.
-Kick feint to grab now has more variable dodge timing, and does not track a rolling opponent.
-New offensive zone: Highlander charges at the opponent in an unblockable slash, is feintable to grab with its previous tracking capabilities. (Initiated by releasing heavy in offfensive stance, then immediately holding both light and heavy attack)

Shinobi-
-Ranged heavies can now be soft feinted into a roll.
-Heavy attack after a roll now tracks opponents who dodge, and comes out faster.
-Backflips gain dodge frames, similar to nobushi's hidden stance.
-Kicks now take more stamina, scaling up if initiated after a quadruple dodge.
-Shinobi zone is now similar to conqueror's zone, yet with dodge instead. During the duration, he dodges all attacks besides unblockables yet can be parried.



[B]Gladiator-
-Reflex guard now the same length as shinobi guard.
-Zone attack is now reversed, a 500ms slash followed by a bash. If the slash hits, the bash happens automatically. If the slash does not hit, gladiator goes into recovery.

Shaman-
-Omnidirectional jumping heavies changed to 600ms, and can now be parried for a full light deflect punish.
-Shove can no longer be feinted once shaman has left the ground.
-Throw distance has been decreased to be more in line with the rest of the cast.
- From guardbreak, shaman gets a new light punish that guarantees bleed, but only 10 damage.


Aramusha-
-Jump attack can no longer be feinted after leaving the ground.
-Combos start at 700ms for heavies and 600ms for lights, but speed up the further aramusha is into a combo. (similar to berserker's damage boost, this will max out at 6 attacks. At hit 3 of the combo, heavies will be 600 and lights 500. At hit 6 of the combo, heavies will be 500 with lights 400.) (Note, attack do not have to land to count towards combo count).
--Boosted heavy attacks will give light parry punish, but will deal more damage if they land.
-Aramusha is no longer limited to side-top-side light combos.
-Heavy attack will no longer cause aramusha to slide after rolls, guaranteeing a hit.
-Blade blockade now slightly faster, guaranteeing a heavy attack or guardbreak throw.
--If a light attack is used from blade blockade punish, it will stun the enemy and start his combo at hit 4


Some of these ideas may be nonsense, but it was a load of fun thinking them up.

Dry.Fish
09-25-2018, 08:46 PM
Raider-
-Stunning tap speed increased but tracking decreased

Stunning tap is fine you shouldn't be using it out of neutral anyway.

-Zone now comes from whatever side your guard is on, top zone is sped up but does less damage

Don't need it not necessary.

-Can no longer carry when out of stamina

This would totally ruin OOS fights

-Out of lock grab no longer tracks, and causes raider to "trip" similar to a countered shinobi, giving a chance to punish.

The tracking is not that good so it's not needed.

DefiledDragon
09-25-2018, 08:58 PM
Raider-
-Stunning tap speed increased but tracking decreased

Stunning tap is fine you shouldn't be using it out of neutral anyway.

-Zone now comes from whatever side your guard is on, top zone is sped up but does less damage

Don't need it not necessary.

-Can no longer carry when out of stamina

This would totally ruin OOS fights

-Out of lock grab no longer tracks, and causes raider to "trip" similar to a countered shinobi, giving a chance to punish.

The tracking is not that good so it's not needed.

You main Raider, don't you?

PepsiBeastin
09-25-2018, 09:07 PM
Raider-
-Stunning tap speed increased but tracking decreased

Stunning tap is fine you shouldn't be using it out of neutral anyway.

-Zone now comes from whatever side your guard is on, top zone is sped up but does less damage

Don't need it not necessary.

-Can no longer carry when out of stamina

This would totally ruin OOS fights

-Out of lock grab no longer tracks, and causes raider to "trip" similar to a countered shinobi, giving a chance to punish.

The tracking is not that good so it's not needed.

1. I think this would be an alright buff, while getting rid of the ridiculous times where raider flies through the air after a roll or shinobi backflip to still hit you with the tap.

2. There are many things you could say are "not neccessary". The point is giving more variety to the kit.

3. So it's fair that raider and warlord and yeet someone 50 feet when OOS, yet other characters like shugoki don't get their special moves?

4. I've had raiders track me around carts and directly through their teammates with the grab so yes, the tracking is bad. For the payoff these moves give, they need to be punishable if they miss, similar to how shinobi takes damage for missing ranged attacks.

Dry.Fish
09-25-2018, 09:21 PM
1. It's not just Raider with this problem. Don't run, stand up and fight.

2. Right side is fine.

3. Don't get GB'd buy an OOS opponent.

4. Seems to be the opposite for me. Do whatever I'm not a big fan of cheese so I really don't use it.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-25-2018, 09:59 PM
From guardbreak, shaman gets a new light punish that guarantees bleed.
Oh hell no.
....and raider being able to zone from any direction. Yea, raider main alert.

I do agree carries of any kind when oos should not be in the game...it makes no sense why this is OK but shugoki can't headbutt when oos.
I don't agree with Pk as deflect is very pc.
Shugoki being l/h unblockable, uninteruptable would be abused like crazy...unless I'm reading it wrong.

PepsiBeastin
09-25-2018, 10:30 PM
Oh hell no.
....and raider being able to zone from any direction. Yea, raider main alert.

I do agree carries of any kind when oos should not be in the game...it makes no sense why this is OK but shugoki can't headbutt when oos.

I actually don't even have raider to level 2, I was just trying to be fair and get everyone to the same level of usability and/or enjoyment while playing.

Here, I went ahead and edited it to be more like what I meant.

"- From guardbreak, shaman gets a new light punish that guarantees bleed, but only 10 damage."

I don't want it to be a large amount that gives her a while to try to get off a bite, just a few seconds.



This is who I play, in case certain characters seem biased.
https://i.gyazo.com/cf05838668bf9de492debae27f9ecc01.jpg

UbiInsulin
09-25-2018, 10:44 PM
Thank you for the amount of detail you put into this post! I'll keep up with the discussion here.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-26-2018, 01:27 AM
Since you and I have shugoki in common I should mention that I like your plans for him mostly... But I didn't see an opener such as a belly bump or headbutt...everything else looked good to me.

PepsiBeastin
09-26-2018, 01:52 AM
Since you and I have shugoki in common I should mention that I like your plans for him mostly... But I didn't see an opener such as a belly bump or headbutt...everything else looked good to me.

Oh sorry, I had this idea but didn't put it.

----Headbutt can now be comboed after a whiffed attack, but is not guaranteed then.

ChampionRuby50g
09-26-2018, 02:32 AM
I don’t like some of your Shugo changes. Giving two heroes such similar move sets is never gonna be a good idea and ruins diversity. Headbutt should not ledge/wall splat considering how easy it is to land if you just trade a light due to hyper Armor.

“-Any landed attack can be comboed into headbutt, only guaranteed on heavy hit or block”

This is also really confusing. Does that mean Shugo can headbutt you if you block an attack, or does it work like LBs shove? Because either way, they are both bad mechanics and this would be stronger than LB shove. More range(sends opponent back further) greater potential to ledge/ wallsplat, which is huge damage.

PepsiBeastin
09-26-2018, 02:36 AM
I don’t like some of your Shugo changes. Giving two heroes such similar move sets is never gonna be a good idea and ruins diversity. Headbutt should not ledge/wall splat considering how easy it is to land if you just trade a light due to hyper Armor.

“-Any landed attack can be comboed into headbutt, only guaranteed on heavy hit or block”

This is also really confusing. Does that mean Shugo can headbutt you if you block an attack, or does it work like LBs shove? Because either way, they are both bad mechanics and this would be stronger than LB shove. More range(sends opponent back further) greater potential to ledge/ wallsplat, which is huge damage.

It means that if you block a shugoki heavy attack, he gets a headbutt on you.

I'll reword it. Headbutt can be used after any comboed heavy or light, but is only guaranteed when a light attack lands, or a heavy attack is blocked. My bad, it was pretty much a typo.

DefiledDragon
09-26-2018, 02:52 AM
I don’t like some of your Shugo changes. Giving two heroes such similar move sets is never gonna be a good idea and ruins diversity. Headbutt should not ledge/wall splat considering how easy it is to land if you just trade a light due to hyper Armor.

“-Any landed attack can be comboed into headbutt, only guaranteed on heavy hit or block”

This is also really confusing. Does that mean Shugo can headbutt you if you block an attack, or does it work like LBs shove? Because either way, they are both bad mechanics and this would be stronger than LB shove. More range(sends opponent back further) greater potential to ledge/ wallsplat, which is huge damage.

Wait till you see the new Chinese hero that can kick you right across the arena. Can't remember which one it is, think it might have been Tiandi but the kick looks like it was designed for ledging/spiking to me. It's like being fired out of a cannon.

PepsiBeastin
09-26-2018, 03:02 AM
Wait till you see the new Chinese hero that can kick you right across the arena. Can't remember which one it is, think it might have been Tiandi but the kick looks like it was designed for ledging/spiking to me. It's like being fired out of a cannon.


https://youtu.be/Fds1dqzDDKI?t=40s
:40

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-26-2018, 05:24 PM
For shugoki...I like the sumo belly bump as an opener.. Some YouTube thought of it not me.
How I would do it..It would be as slow as DE and look the same but with much faster recovery time. If it lands its a free db...it is uninteruptable and can only be punished with a single light after a failed bump. It can be soft fainted into from heavies. If it connects onto a person out of stamina it caused them to fall for a charged heavy.
The exact opposite of a demons embrace would counter it meaning you would have to step or roll back to counter it but if you counter attack or move to the side it gets you.
This would be an opener with a 50/50 BB/DE guess from neutral and it would force people to not meta against shugoki or suffer major consequences.

DefiledDragon
09-26-2018, 06:06 PM
https://youtu.be/Fds1dqzDDKI?t=40s
:40

Aye, that's the one.