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Oilburner_TAW
08-10-2005, 03:59 PM
I was messing around in QMB with the p38L and the p38Late. I really couldn't tell them apart except for the fact the "Late" seemed to overheat a lot easier (I can run the "L" at 95% pitch with full rad's almost all day long). I realize the reason I can't tell any difference is because I don't have enough experience in it. But, due to the absolute uproar this plane has created on the Lufty side, I was hoping one of the people who fly the 38 on line a lot could point out why it is SO MUCH BETTER than the other versions we already had. The difference between the "J" and "L" is noticeable, but the difference between the "L" and "Late" just isn't standing out.

This isn't a troll, just looking for an explanation.

thanks

*edit* I'm talking about the difference in the game, not the historical differences.

Oilburner_TAW
08-10-2005, 03:59 PM
I was messing around in QMB with the p38L and the p38Late. I really couldn't tell them apart except for the fact the "Late" seemed to overheat a lot easier (I can run the "L" at 95% pitch with full rad's almost all day long). I realize the reason I can't tell any difference is because I don't have enough experience in it. But, due to the absolute uproar this plane has created on the Lufty side, I was hoping one of the people who fly the 38 on line a lot could point out why it is SO MUCH BETTER than the other versions we already had. The difference between the "J" and "L" is noticeable, but the difference between the "L" and "Late" just isn't standing out.

This isn't a troll, just looking for an explanation.

thanks

*edit* I'm talking about the difference in the game, not the historical differences.

SeaNorris
08-10-2005, 04:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oilburner_TAW:
*edit* I'm talking about the difference in the game, not the historical differences. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What 'historical differences' it didn't exist http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Hoarmurath
08-10-2005, 05:17 PM
In the game, the P-38L late is faster, and climb better than the L.... Way better. It accelerate faster too. Beside that, it is the same as a L.

J_Weaver
08-10-2005, 05:23 PM
The L-late also has dive recovery flaps. I don't think the L does.

P.S. the L-late has better speed, climb and acceleration because it has more powerful engines.

*edit, I thought that around 2000 L lates were made, seeing combat in the ETO and PTO http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

VF-29_Sandman
08-10-2005, 05:26 PM
both L's have the dive brakes. the J doesnt. pm bss_cuda. he's the virturoso of the 38.

VW-IceFire
08-10-2005, 05:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oilburner_TAW:
I was messing around in QMB with the p38L and the p38Late. I really couldn't tell them apart except for the fact the "Late" seemed to overheat a lot easier (I can run the "L" at 95% pitch with full rad's almost all day long). I realize the reason I can't tell any difference is because I don't have enough experience in it. But, due to the absolute uproar this plane has created on the Lufty side, I was hoping one of the people who fly the 38 on line a lot could point out why it is SO MUCH BETTER than the other versions we already had. The difference between the "J" and "L" is noticeable, but the difference between the "L" and "Late" just isn't standing out.

This isn't a troll, just looking for an explanation.

thanks

*edit* I'm talking about the difference in the game, not the historical differences. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well first to clear up any confusion...the historical difference was that there was no historical difference. There was just the P-38L. Most had all the same engines...the L Late in-game just represents an upboosted version. The closest comparison is the Mustang Mark III vs the P-51C. Same plane, same engine, even looks the same...but the Mustang Mark III is boosted to RAF standards.

Anyways, the P-38L Late has the biggest difference being that its faster and it has more horsepower. So it seems "easier" because while the weight of the plane is identical...there is now more power pushing it along. I don't know the speed curves in comparison to other aircraft...but my experience is that its faster or the same as most of the opposition being nearly the same as the Mustang at some altitudes.

Aside from engine power, the plane is the same aircraft. Same weapon options, same guns, same fuel tank capacity, and the same divebrakes (available on both L versions - to correct J_Weaver). The biggest historical issue with this plane, one that would put the Luftwaffe guys up in arms about even more...is that it SHOULD have a K-14 gyroscopic gunsight...but it doesn't.

J_Weaver
08-10-2005, 06:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
...and the same divebrakes (available on both L versions - to correct J_Weaver). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I sit corrected. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Oilburner_TAW
08-10-2005, 09:53 PM
BSS Cuda is the guy I was thinking of. 1 or 2 months ago he had a post describing how to fly the 38 online and it helped me tremendously. The speed being the only difference makes sense now (that I haven't noticed it). I fly the P38 in the PTO and the 38L (non-late) is already plenty fast if you don't turn-n-burn with it.

thanks

BSS_CUDA
08-11-2005, 08:15 AM
MAN I was wondering why my ears were ringing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

boosted engines is the only difference between the L + L-Late, (more speed + climb) the J doesn't have the dive brakes or gun pods other than that they are the same. in 3.04 the J was just a tad more stable than the L and just a little faster and wouldn't go into that deathnell flat spin as easy, I dont see much of a difference in 4.0 they appear about equal J might still be a little bit faster, I still fly the J on WC 43 maps just to keep sharp http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif. its still the class of the field when flown to its strengths http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

TAGERT.
08-11-2005, 08:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Well first to clear up any confusion...the historical difference was that there was no historical difference. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>True

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
There was just the P-38L. Most had all the same engines... the L Late in-game just represents an upboosted version. The closest comparison is the Mustang Mark III vs the P-51C. Same plane, same engine, even looks the same...but the Mustang Mark III is boosted to RAF standards. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>A little missleading, in that the P38L didnt require any engine modifications (like the Mustang Mark III) did to handle the extra Manafold Pressure. The only thing the L "Late" represents is that the USAAF sent out a letter telling all the P38L pilots it is now ok for them to push the allready existing engines to a higher Manfold Pressures. As if the pilots had to have a note to tell them that!

See, Oleg's FM does not allow us to apply more MP, it is auto limited by the flight sim, you can see it kick in above 25kft, All Oleg did was open up the limits from 60"MP for the P38L to 66"MP for the P38L LATE.

Put another way, the Real Life pilots could have at any time before the note came out applied 66"MP to the P38Ls in service, we SIM pilots can not, in that the FM limits what we can apply.

J_Weaver
08-11-2005, 09:47 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Wow! I didn't know that! So there is actually no difference in the L and L late? Why did Oleg give us a whole new plane when he could have just made the changes the the existing L?

Hoarmurath
08-11-2005, 04:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Weaver:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Wow! I didn't know that! So there is actually no difference in the L and L late? Why did Oleg give us a whole new plane when he could have just made the changes the the existing L? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because Tagert have imagined the whole thing.

WOLFMondo
08-11-2005, 04:54 PM
dunno what the fuss is about, the j version is still the nicest to fly imho. the only thing the l has over the j is ordanance...mainly the gun pods.

BSS_CUDA
08-11-2005, 05:22 PM
well the L + Late turn quicker and better than the J, I've found turing with the brake is better than with the flaps, and you wont jamb them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, plus if you need that little xtra turning you kick in the combats flaps and voila 109 eater http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

JFC_Slumped
08-11-2005, 08:12 PM
The whole way the game handles superchargers is a bit dodgy. Changing up a stage too early should result in blowing up the supercharger and/or intake manifold, as happens if you enable the MW50 at full power in the ME-109.
In reality you could set the supercharger as you liked, but at the risk of blowing something up.
In the game the engine just seems to produce less power until you change down.

TAGERT.
08-11-2005, 09:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Weaver:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Wow! I didn't know that! So there is actually no difference in the L and L late? Why did Oleg give us a whole new plane when he could have just made the changes the the existing L? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not 100% sure why he didnt just update the existing one? Maybe because it wasnt until late 44 that the P38s (J's also) were officially allowed to go beyond 60"MP to 66"MP, thus he kept the existing version for map makers? Only Oleg knows why he decided to keep both versions. As to why the 2nd one was added, my guess is someone provided Oleg with the reference/data that shows the P38L was cleared to use higher MP values. Keep in mind that most references (aka DATA) states 60"MP, because for most of the war that is what it was. So, no wonder Oleg thougth that was the case.

TAGERT.
08-11-2005, 09:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
Because Tagert have imagined the whole thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! You poor thing! Still upset that I made you look like a fool? Sorry, Ill go easy on you from here out, promise! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WOLFMondo
08-12-2005, 12:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
well the L + Late turn quicker and better than the J, I've found turing with the brake is better than with the flaps, and you wont jamb them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, plus if you need that little xtra turning you kick in the combats flaps and voila 109 eater http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i agree the l is faster but...i've always felt the j turned allot nicer with or without flaps, the l mushes in turns and stalls easier, just seems more comfortable doing tight manouvers in the j version. in my opinion anyways.

BSS_CUDA
08-12-2005, 08:06 AM
that was definately the case in 3.04, but since 4.0 I've found them to fly quite similar. in all honesty I've changed my style since the patch. in 3.04 I'd jump in with the J and mix it up with the 109's, I still do with 4.0 but not as much I dont true BnZ with it but when I do it is great at it, it will eat up any 190 fast in a zoom climb. truly 190's are no match for the 38. I more hit and run with it, a little more flat in my dives chose my target and depending on what it is I'll either engage or extend and come back, but I dont come it at 400+ like FW's or 47's do

Darkwolff57
08-27-2005, 10:14 PM
The P-38L's engine & supercharger system used a variable pressure oil pump & caged ball bearings with open flow pressure oiling on the crank & supercharger. If you hit the boost at the wrong speed & altitude you caused a back-pressure wave which effectively stalled the Allisons & blew the rubber band seals all to hell , the P-38 Late's Allison V-1710's engines & supercharger assemblies all went to Timken style tapered roller bearings & a new constant high pressure oil pump for higher sustained RPM's at all altitudes with high temp sealed bearings for the supercharger, along with tightly machined flanges with the addition of brass caged O-rings to prevent overboost blowout.