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GR142_Astro
06-27-2005, 08:43 PM
Took up an A6 on a Russian server and wow! Severe pwnage of the red guys. Nah, it wasn't that bad but 3 kills per sortie came pretty easy. One burst on the target, no matter where, and that sucker is goin down. Zoom cllimb? ***etta bout it!

A few questions:

1 - Did RL Lufties have to ride the rudder almost the whole flight?
2 - Did they steal the P47's zoom and give it to the 190?
3 - Honestly, should the 20mms do such spectacular damage?
4 - Overheat seems to be reasonable, thoughts?
5 - Who needs a gunsight anyway.

Anyway, it's a wild ride and I would think if one spent any time at all in the seat you would own about any situ you wanted to.

PS: No this is not a thinly veiled attempt at anything, period.

http://www.cropp.demon.co.uk/FW/MOREPICS/190A-4.JPG

GR142_Astro
06-27-2005, 08:43 PM
Took up an A6 on a Russian server and wow! Severe pwnage of the red guys. Nah, it wasn't that bad but 3 kills per sortie came pretty easy. One burst on the target, no matter where, and that sucker is goin down. Zoom cllimb? ***etta bout it!

A few questions:

1 - Did RL Lufties have to ride the rudder almost the whole flight?
2 - Did they steal the P47's zoom and give it to the 190?
3 - Honestly, should the 20mms do such spectacular damage?
4 - Overheat seems to be reasonable, thoughts?
5 - Who needs a gunsight anyway.

Anyway, it's a wild ride and I would think if one spent any time at all in the seat you would own about any situ you wanted to.

PS: No this is not a thinly veiled attempt at anything, period.

http://www.cropp.demon.co.uk/FW/MOREPICS/190A-4.JPG

VW-IceFire
06-27-2005, 08:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
Took up an A6 on a Russian server and wow! Severe pwnage of the red guys. Nah, it wasn't that bad but 3 kills per sortie came pretty easy. One burst on the target, no matter where, and that sucker is goin down. Zoom cllimb? ***etta bout it!

A few questions:

1 - Did RL Lufties have to ride the rudder almost the whole flight?
2 - Did they steal the P47's zoom and give it to the 190?
3 - Honestly, should the 20mms do such spectacular damage?
4 - Overheat seems to be reasonable, thoughts?
5 - Who needs a gunsight anyway.

Anyway, it's a wild ride and I would think if one spent any time at all in the seat you would own about any situ you wanted to.

PS: No this is not a thinly veiled attempt at anything, period.

http://www.cropp.demon.co.uk/FW/MOREPICS/190A-4.JPG </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
1) I'm not sure on that and would be curious to know the answer.
2) I thought the P-47 was still diving like a brick but to be honest I haven't checked.
3) Yes. VVS testing apparently indicated that the average number of shots from German 20mm fire was 1-3 to critically damage or kill at target. We now see that after years of forgetting the Mine shells that made the weapon so effetcive.
4) Overheat is about the same as before. If managed properly then it stays cool. That seems about right.
5) Gunsight still sucks but after years of practice I can shoot deflection angles at planes I can't see.

CUJO_1970
06-27-2005, 10:31 PM
1. No
2. No
3. Russian test pilots were amazed at the weight of fire the FW190 could spit out.

4x20mm cannons and 2xMG is devastating firepower.

4. What IceFire said
5. Taboo subject

GR142_Astro
06-27-2005, 10:40 PM
Ok, well I am riding the rudder quite a bit and that seems odd. Diving wasn't the issue, Zoom climb was. Will have to do some zoom climb testing between the 190 and Jug to see how each fares. Rgr that overheat seems manageable. I will slot my vote in the camp that says the 20mm is now a bit overdone (yes it could be dm trouble, but don't think that way at the moment). Forward vis blows, but as I said with this bad boy who needs it!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

http://www.burymodelfc.co.uk/gallery/photomonth%202003/JUN%20-%20FW190%20SIMON.jpg

Jaws2002
06-27-2005, 10:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
Took up an A6 on a Russian server and wow! Severe pwnage of the red guys. Nah, it wasn't that bad but 3 kills per sortie came pretty easy. One burst on the target, no matter where, and that sucker is goin down. Zoom cllimb? ***etta bout it!

A few questions:

1 - Did RL Lufties have to ride the rudder almost the whole flight?
2 - Did they steal the P47's zoom and give it to the 190?
3 - Honestly, should the 20mms do such spectacular damage?
4 - Overheat seems to be reasonable, thoughts?
5 - Who needs a gunsight anyway.

Anyway, it's a wild ride and I would think if one spent any time at all in the seat you would own about any situ you wanted to.

PS: No this is not a thinly veiled attempt at anything, period.

http://www.cropp.demon.co.uk/FW/MOREPICS/190A-4.JPG </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. In Bf-109 yes. In FW 190 <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">NOT</span>.
midle of the page:
http://www.lanpartyworld.com/ww2/images/pro_190_survey_a_2.jpg

top of the page (http://www.lanpartyworld.com/ww2/images/pro_190_survey_a_4.jpg)
2. Can't comment on that. I know a 109,spit IX, or la7 will eat your lunch if you even think to zoom away without a lot of energy advantage.
zoom climb (http://www.lanpartyworld.com/ww2/images/pro_190_survey_a_3.jpg)
3. Four of them I think yes.
4. Is bad at low speed but if you are going fast is ok.
5.Me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

GR142_Astro
06-27-2005, 11:24 PM
Maybe it's my now apparently incompatible X45 but riding the rudder during the entire climbout seems wrong. Bug or programming error I suppose.

Jaws2002
06-27-2005, 11:29 PM
Is not your setup.I have Ch pro pedals and is the same. That was the first thing I noticed when I instaled the patch.
Exactly as you said: bug or programming error. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Badsight.
06-27-2005, 11:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
3 - Honestly, should the 20mms do such spectacular damage? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>only happens when the extra explosive MG shells connect

all other hits are normal MG151 rounds that feel no different to v3.04

Hristo_
06-27-2005, 11:36 PM
1 - Did RL Lufties have to ride the rudder almost the whole flight?
I suspect they didn't have to do it as much, but who knows. Maybe Flugwerk (http://www.flugwerk.de/) guys ?

2 - Did they steal the P47's zoom and give it to the 190?
They didn't. Las time I checked, P-47 outzoomed my Fw 190A, as well as outdove it.

3 - Honestly, should the 20mms do such spectacular damage?
Depends how many of them. 13 shells per second multiplied by 4 cannons is 52 shells per second. Add two 7.92 mm with even higher ROF. What do you think ?

4 - Overheat seems to be reasonable, thoughts?
The plane overheats reasonably, yes.

5 - Who needs a gunsight anyway.
Me, at least.


Now, my impressions on the Fw 190A-6, after flying it at WarClouds.

To me, it represents the most balanced 190, similar to Bf 109G-2 when discussing 109 series. It is good in most categories, but not the best in any. Of course, at the time of its introduction it was probably the best in several categories, but not so in 1944/45.

The plane allows its pilot a variety of tactics, unlike other 190s. It can BnZ like all other 190s. If at disadvantage, it can still outpace many planes simply by diving away. It can turnfight against some planes and it only needs a brief firing opportunity to end the fight. It is especially effective in scissors, if the pilot is forced into it.

My personal favorite opponent is MkIII. Fw 190A-6 can outmaneuver it in most situations and a burst from quad Mausers is a very satisfying way to end this fight.

It is a good bomber killer, and also fairly resistant to defensive fire (not as Fw 190A-8 or Fw 190A-9, though).

I've had Spitfires on my six which I managed to outmaneuver and either shoot down or get away from. I'd be hard pressed to do it in later models.

The plane benefits most from team tactics, especially because it is rather slow for late war. If you are lonewulfing, you better have superb SA and really know what you're doing. Or fly a faster plane.

Again, similar to Bf 109G-2, it is a pure air superiority fighter, unlike later models which had to incorporate bomber killer abilities. One can only imagine how formidable Fw 190A-9 would be if not burdened with extra armor and equipment.

It really is a pilot's plane.

Jetbuff
06-27-2005, 11:47 PM
Like I said to my squaddies on TS tonight, I'm naming my first born Anton! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Abbuzze
06-28-2005, 01:43 AM
Lot of things said, so just for the "overmodelled" 20mm. AP for example is real unspectacular in FB, like it was in reality. From the ballistic side the MG151/20 was inferior to the 20mm Hispanio.

The A6 have 4x 20mm, I don´t now about the belting but take a look at this:

http://mitglied.lycos.de/p123/bilder/MGFFwDelay.jpg

This is the result of a shooting test with 20mm HE shells with fuse delay. And this is an early MGFF shell... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Of course this is made under perfect circumstances, but even without delay and with very early fusing a hit looks this way:
http://mitglied.lycos.de/p123/bilder/MGFFwoDelay.jpg

How many hits should a fighter withstand??
And don´t forget, we are talking about a weapon with a rate of fire similar to a 0.50!
A Hispanio is about 25% slower...

GR142_Astro
06-28-2005, 02:13 AM
Interesting.

Oleg, fix the #@%#@! rudder. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

I don't notice it throwing my gunnery off any, but I can't imagine sending a fighter into combat with this little feature.

I just can't get interested in pedals, since I hear that leads to wearing goggles and a scarf too.

Ah the good ol days:

http://pages.prodigy.net/ys11/ysflight/ss050126_fw190.png

bazzaah2
06-28-2005, 03:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jetbuff:
Like I said to my squaddies on TS tonight, I'm naming my first born Anton! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

let's hope you don't have a girl then.

jurinko
06-28-2005, 04:26 AM
Fw190 was one of the best fighters in world, what´s so strange it can do well in experienced hands online? In most aspects much better than Soviet planes. Remember that the most empolyed red plane at east was Yak-9, which, with its mediocre climb, poor dive, average speed, weak construction and armament could just turn better at low speed, thats all.

Sturm_Williger
06-28-2005, 04:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bazzaah2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jetbuff:
Like I said to my squaddies on TS tonight, I'm naming my first born Anton! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

let's hope you don't have a girl then. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If his firstborn is a girl, he'll have to start flying the Dora http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-28-2005, 11:20 AM
Or betty...or Emily...or Val...

Hristo_
06-28-2005, 11:45 AM
Amateurs !

My first born will be called Kurt Tank II ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hunde_3.JG51
06-28-2005, 01:48 PM
I am partial to the name:

0002-FO+LZ

That was the Werk Nummer designation of the second FW-190 prototype. Now I just have to figure out if it is a male, or female name.

Rudi_JG1
06-28-2005, 02:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sturm_Williger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bazzaah2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jetbuff:
Like I said to my squaddies on TS tonight, I'm naming my first born Anton! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

let's hope you don't have a girl then. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If his firstborn is a girl, he'll have to start flying the Dora http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Antonia, perhaps??

And I actually remember when my buddy and squadmate, Pritzl (aka Jetbuff), favored the 109 over his now-beloved Anton...ha!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

NorrisMcWhirter
06-28-2005, 03:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
Took up an A6 on a Russian server and wow! Severe pwnage of the red guys. Nah, it wasn't that bad but 3 kills per sortie came pretty easy. One burst on the target, no matter where, and that sucker is goin down. Zoom cllimb? ***etta bout it!

A few questions:

1 - Did RL Lufties have to ride the rudder almost the whole flight?
2 - Did they steal the P47's zoom and give it to the 190?
3 - Honestly, should the 20mms do such spectacular damage?
4 - Overheat seems to be reasonable, thoughts?
5 - Who needs a gunsight anyway.

Anyway, it's a wild ride and I would think if one spent any time at all in the seat you would own about any situ you wanted to.

PS: No this is not a thinly veiled attempt at anything, period.

http://www.cropp.demon.co.uk/FW/MOREPICS/190A-4.JPG </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. I don't have to ride the rudder. Check your settings.
2. I don't quite know what people are expecting from this matchup but I don't recall the in-game 190 being superior to the P47 in this department.
3. Firstly, try the 20mms in 3.04 (or any previous patch). Secondly, take the Beaufighter up and compare the 190 with it's hispanos. There isn't a lot of difference nor should there be. Unless you're saying the hispanos are overmodelled, that is.
4. Overheat is almost identical to before...perhaps it overheats a little more quickly but it's hardly noticable. What does seem different is the use of manual/auto pitch.
5. Precisely. You need to use the Force with the 190. Who needs a targetting computer like in the P51? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ta,
Norris

mynameisroland
06-28-2005, 05:37 PM
The Force is strong here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
06-28-2005, 05:45 PM
For the 20mm issue.

The MG151/20 and the Hispano Mark II should be roughly equal in overall damage (according to the experts). They are now. They were not in 3.04. Therefore they were incorrect in 3.04 and more correct now. This isn't too complicated unless you really want to make it complicated.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Spinnetti
06-28-2005, 08:53 PM
I know the plane in your post I think..
I had one like it.. (sold it recently).. 50% W.A.R. Replica.. is that one in the U.k.? Chris something?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

http://www.burymodelfc.co.uk/gallery/photomonth%202003/JUN%20-%20FW190%20SIMON.jpg [/QUOTE]

GR142_Astro
06-28-2005, 11:34 PM
Dunno, but that is a very realistic looking in-flight shot isn't it? I've kind of stalled out (no pun) at the Tiger Trainer phase, with my attention being diverted off to bigger and faster toys. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

BTW, it is clear in this pic that the pilot should see much better over the nose.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif



http://www.zcar.com/images/month/2003/12/kevin1.jpg

huggy87
06-28-2005, 11:43 PM
Maybe I missed something here... I have seen several comments about fixing the rudder. I just played around with the 190 and it seemed like you could not trim the rudder. Is this old news or am I missing something?

Fehler
06-29-2005, 12:07 AM
The 190 had trim only on the elevator. All other trim was set fro cruise speed on the ground. The pilot had no way to manipulate it in the air.

That's why it is near impossible to fly the 190 without rudder pedals with the current FM. And I like it!

Jetbuff
06-29-2005, 01:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rudi_JG1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sturm_Williger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bazzaah2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jetbuff:
Like I said to my squaddies on TS tonight, I'm naming my first born Anton! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

let's hope you don't have a girl then. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If his firstborn is a girl, he'll have to start flying the Dora http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Antonia, perhaps??

And I actually remember when my buddy and squadmate, Pritzl (aka Jetbuff), favored the 109 over his now-beloved Anton...ha!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I still love the F-4, but the A-6 has unceremoniously nudged it aside! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Antonia? That works too... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Even though it's 190 too, I just can't bring myself to appreciate the dora. It is the aircraft I fly least in the entire LW arsenal I think if not in the entire game. Reminds me of a grasshopper for some reason. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif *runs and hides*

WTE_Ibis
06-29-2005, 03:03 AM
Love the A5 in the new patch http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

OldMan____
06-29-2005, 05:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fehler:
The 190 had trim only on the elevator. All other trim was set fro cruise speed on the ground. The pilot had no way to manipulate it in the air.

That's why it is near impossible to fly the 190 without rudder pedals with the current FM. And I like it! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't get why som much people says is "almost impossible" to fly without rudder pedals now. I have only a X45 and my rocker switch does the jb very well. My flying in FW190 suffers nothing from the lack of pedals. Only precise gunnery (the type you have time to do onçy against AI) would benefit from such hardware.

Diablo310th
06-29-2005, 06:20 AM
As to the 20mm.....didn't Oleg put 3 Mine shells in the belt load instead of 2 that several people have said was historical? Maybe that's where the seemingly "too powerful" 20 is coming from. 1 more of those suckers every 5th round out of 4 20's would certainly make a difference. I want my full belt of API in my Jug now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

BBB_Hyperion
06-29-2005, 06:39 AM
Its historical correct like before but in fighter vs fighter combat only. Well seems oleg did mean it too good and 3 mineshells surely outweights the requested 1 mineshell that was missing by far. But then in later beta stages we saw the 3 mineshells power got tuned down for balancing issues . I would prefer when all planes have own belting choice it feels like a compromise over a compromise now.

Fish6891
06-29-2005, 06:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hristo_:
Amateurs !

My first born will be called Kurt Tank II ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMAOOOOO http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

geetarman
06-29-2005, 08:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fehler:
The 190 had trim only on the elevator. All other trim was set fro cruise speed on the ground. The pilot had no way to manipulate it in the air.

That's why it is near impossible to fly the 190 without rudder pedals with the current FM. And I like it! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bingo!

JG53Frankyboy
06-29-2005, 08:49 AM
i have NO proplems flying 109, 190, A6M till model32 , Ki-84 without pedals !

and about what oleg did with the MG151/20 , only his team could tell..............

Jaws2002
06-29-2005, 10:48 AM
Is nothing wrong with the MG151/20. Four of them plus two MG's are a lot of firepower.
Did you ever try Hurricane IIC, ot the new Spitrire MkVc(4)? They are the same, on touch of the trigger and is all over.

Spinnetti
06-29-2005, 10:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
Dunno, but that is a very realistic looking in-flight shot isn't it? I've kind of stalled out (no pun) at the Tiger Trainer phase, with my attention being diverted off to bigger and faster toys. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

BTW, it is clear in this pic that the pilot should see much better over the nose.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif



http://www.zcar.com/images/month/2003/12/kevin1.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice Z! I had a similar color/vintage Celica..

Well, first hand, I can tell you the visibility out front is pretty bad.. Better in the small one than the real thing, but thats mostly on the ground. In the air its not too bad, assuming you don't want to see straight out or down.

What I dont' understand is all the comments on this - I have NO problem seeing out in game, deflection shooting or whatever.. just get used to it! Its easy, and 2nd nature after you develop the skill for it (which is not to say that I'm any good in combat, just that I never notice any visibility issues). One thing to try is to set it to unlimited ammo and set up some unarmed planes and practice your deflection shooting until you no longer have to think about it. Then go to full 'real', hold your fire until close range, and enjoy the result! You don't need lots of ammo if you close to 100M or so and pick your shots! I love that with care, it can be one shot, one kill.