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HighWithEagle
09-22-2018, 04:32 PM
Why did ubisoft nerf the PK light spam only to give the orochi a 100x better light spam plus buffing his running heavy attack to come from any direction in 400ms how the **** is that fair?
PS I don't play PK

Kliftheone
09-22-2018, 04:58 PM
There is literally no reason to post here. Ubisoft only reads Reddit, and if you happen to play on a console they will just ignore it. Ubi balances this game around PC players with optimal PCs and max frames. Furthermore, they are balancing the game for the top 1-2% of the players. The sad thing is neither the best players in the game gets balance that fits well for them, and it forces the rest of us casual players and "semi-good" players to get stuck with only abusing 1 move per hero, if that said hero has no move like this then you can`t win with it.

Now to use your example, because PC players can easily react to and block/parry every light (except 400 MS attacks which is properly delayed) the rest of us have to sit fine with this decision. So in other words, if you play against an opponent with subpar connection or you play on a console where 90% have a ****ty connection you will just have to accept that defending will reside on you having a static guard and face a player with a decent connection.

So if you really want to reach anyone except forum moderators I would suggest a play on PC, become the top 0.1% of players and post on Reddit, at least they might consider what you have to say, although most go through locked discords at this point.


#console is here to fund PC while Ubi trys to get ppl to stop playing console so they have less ppl to care about in terms of balancing.

UbiJurassic
09-22-2018, 08:51 PM
Why did ubisoft nerf the PK light spam only to give the orochi a 100x better light spam plus buffing his running heavy attack to come from any direction in 400ms how the **** is that fair?
PS I don't play PK

Both Orochi and Peacekeeper have the same light attack speed from neutral, both at 500 ms. However, comboed lights from Orochi do come out at 400ms. The reason for the 400ms combo lights is because prior to the rework, the team found that Orochi was ineffective at sustaining his offense when continuing in a chain. With Peacekeeper's rework, we saw a similar problem with a lack of sustained offense, but in a different manner. Therefore, we improved the bleed attacks to stack and also created incentive for PK to launch a Heavy Finisher to end her chains by giving it cancel options into guardbreak or dodge.

Additionally, Orochi's Storm Rush comes at 500ms from the right. 600ms from the left and 700ms from the top.

Kliftheone
09-22-2018, 10:09 PM
Both Orochi and Peacekeeper have the same light attack speed from neutral, both at 500 ms. However, combined lights from Orochi do come out at 400ms. The reason for the 400ms combo lights is because prior to the rework, the team found that Orochi was ineffective at sustaining his offense when continuing in a chain. With Peacekeeper's rework, we saw a similar problem with a lack of sustained offense, but in a different manner. Therefore, we improved the bleed attacks to stack and also created incentive for PK to launch a Heavy Finisher to end her chains by giving it cancel options into guardbreak or dodge.

Additionally, Orochi's Storm Rush comes at 500ms from the right. 600ms from the left and 700ms from the top.



I love the idea Ubisoft had in making PK more than just an instructor with heavy punishes, also making Orochi viable. But from what every competitive player says PK is now trash, she is only viable if the opponents attacks with regular attacks or do stupid ****, as for 2v2 she is no longer viable, and 4v4 she is only viable due to her feats, plung attack and because shaman bite still is broken. Asaid from the competitive play where you don`t have gear stats and a perfectly coordinated team she is **** there as well.

As for Orochi, well lets not lie, he is still trash at competitive level of play on all arenas, only thing that`s changed is for people with bad connection and for casual players, for them Orochi is PK 2.0, he has longer light chains with way better tracking, damage, cancels recovery into new chains, undodgeable dash attacks which makes it hard for casual players to ever get a breathing room from his light rain. For high tier players, he is just trash (as long as there is a connection is good).

So all the changes you`ve done to said characters have made the competitive scene unhappy and a majority of players are eider unhappy or disappointed in what was deleivered. I would like to have Ubi open up the metric chart for every hero all season and let us play with the data. because I am 100% certain that it did not have the "intended" effect if we should believe what the devs say in the dev stream.

Personally, I feel like FH dev team want to do some good things but are held back because the Ubi train wants to earn money. In an example, instead of giving regular patches like most games do, with tweaks that give better balance, or quality of life changes. These games get big seasonal events with "big" updates to attract players to eider come back, buy steel, get streamers to stream it so ppl buy the game so Ubi can earn money, instead of making a game with good balance and steady progression in gaining a player base.

As a console player from EU, I feel like the dev team could not give two ****s about how the state of the game or the servers are. Because everything revolves around the top of the PC players. And if that is the game they want then I can promise you going back to Unlock tech like the flop in S2 would get this game to be a lot more interesting than it is now in 1v1.

Again I have no ide why I bother to write here, other than to vent my frustration against the ignorance a lot of the console community feels Ubi is showing it. Because let's be real, it is not like this will ever reach anywhere higher than forum mods here. If it did, the convo would go like this.

*mod*
here is a forum post you have to read

"Moteral"
Reddit? PC? Streamer?

"mod"
nope, nope and nope

"monteral"
nvm.

There is a ton of examples of console specific dilemmas that Ubi has yet to address or even acknowledge on stream or in any official post. when ppl as that question on stream or in Reddit they ignore it, when ppl post it directly and the public to them, they say "we`ll investigate/look into it" only to never hear mention of it again.

DefiledDragon
09-22-2018, 10:28 PM
I'm not sure it's just about greed or an unwillingness to attempt to balance the game. I think it's more a case of inability. They just don't know how. They keep making changes, albeit at a very slow pace, but they make bad changes. That doesn't speak to laziness or apathy, it speaks to incompetence. It's the worst balanced 1 v 1 fighting game I've ever played and I've been playing them since The Way of The Exploding Fist. The game needs a complete overhaul of the mechanics or they will never find the right balance. It will either devolve into a turtle fest or a button mashers wet dream.

Goat_of_Vermund
09-22-2018, 10:49 PM
I really hope that they will rework the pk again very soon (and the orochi deserves his own rework). Any character who lacks proper openers loses to those who have openers, and the pk and orochi don't have openers at all. If all of your attacks can be dealth with using only one hand and minimal reactions, your character is very weak. There are others who might have to be dodged, but they are either haevily punishable or slow.

Characters with the biggest opener problems:

Pk (lakcs it, and she doesn't really excel in anything else)
Orochi (lacks it, only a bit better than pk)
Nobushi (has an opener kick and the hidden stance heavy is semi-unblockable with a guaranteed kick on block, but doesn't really pressure people)
Centurion (lots of openers on paper, none of them is hard to counter and punish on reaction in reality)
Lawbringer (shove is easy to react, longarm is even more easy to react, jje finisher is hard to access, completely avoided easily if the lb is building it up and slow anyway)
Shugoki (de is a suicide move, the fully charged heavy is harder to not counter for the opponent than countering).

As you can see, these are among the weakest heroes, the raider is the only one who has openers and is still weak (mostly because it's an easily reactable opener).

Honestly, you really should rework every one of these into something that is neither weak or broken. Do it, fail it, do it again, I am sure everyone would understand it's hard to balance something right for the first try, but please, try to change things quicker, even if it has its risks. Nothing is more depressing in the game than waiting for a rework for your mean, getting a big nerf instead, then asking for an other one knowing you are stucked with it for at least a year, and because of it, some of your players will cease to play sooner or later.

Kliftheone
09-22-2018, 11:10 PM
I feel like Ubi is baiting in new players for money when they get good at the game most of them quit since it is pretty much garbage at higher levels of play. So, in essence, they just want to make hype to make money. If this was not the case then the game would not look like it does today. In my opinion, they should eider just go all in and actually gamble on this game and try and make it a good game, or they should let it die out and start fresh. (Would not mind if other studios would try out this concept so we could have some healthy competition to actually get good games in this new genre of fighting games.

Charmzzz
09-23-2018, 08:52 AM
Nerf on PK happened because they wanted to get rid of "Bleed Teams" and they chose to nerf 2 Characters (PK and Nobu) instead of the one causing problems (Shaman). Proof? Here:
https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-gb/news-community/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-325754-16&ct=tcm:154-76770-32



One of the biggest difference from the beginning of Season 5 is the Nobushi’s importance in 4v4 has decreased and Kensei became a good pick. With Nobushi’s slight nerf in S5 and the Peacekeeper changes in S6,1 we think Shaman will be in a sweet spot in 4v4. We wanted to diminish the supremacy of what we call “The Bleed Team”: Peacekeeper / Shaman / Nobushi by nerfing some of the Heroes of the team but most importantly buffing other Heroes to make them a valid pick.

Knight_Raime
09-23-2018, 09:10 AM
I'm not sure it's just about greed or an unwillingness to attempt to balance the game. I think it's more a case of inability. They just don't know how. They keep making changes, albeit at a very slow pace, but they make bad changes. That doesn't speak to laziness or apathy, it speaks to incompetence. It's the worst balanced 1 v 1 fighting game I've ever played and I've been playing them since The Way of The Exploding Fist. The game needs a complete overhaul of the mechanics or they will never find the right balance. It will either devolve into a turtle fest or a button mashers wet dream.

Actually their sin is attempting to make a better game on a foundation of a flawed game. It doesn't matter how many changes they make in favor of the community. The only realistic way this game could truly be fixed is if they handed over the design reigns to the top tier players. But until they actually decide to make some core game changes and take their design philosophies back to the drawing board this game is going to continue to be mixed.

DefiledDragon
09-23-2018, 04:37 PM
Actually their sin is attempting to make a better game on a foundation of a flawed game. It doesn't matter how many changes they make in favor of the community. The only realistic way this game could truly be fixed is if they handed over the design reigns to the top tier players. But until they actually decide to make some core game changes and take their design philosophies back to the drawing board this game is going to continue to be mixed.

Exactly. I very much doubt they ever will though and the fact that they're still working on expanding the game and adding new modes and factions leads me to believe that any possible sequel is a long way off, if they've even considered it at all.

Knight_Raime
09-23-2018, 06:34 PM
Exactly. I very much doubt they ever will though and the fact that they're still working on expanding the game and adding new modes and factions leads me to believe that any possible sequel is a long way off, if they've even considered it at all.

For honor is a service game like rainbow six siege. It's not going to get a sequel.

DefiledDragon
09-23-2018, 07:34 PM
For honor is a service game like rainbow six siege. It's not going to get a sequel.

Then I shall pray nightly that the game becomes insanely popular. Popular enough for other studios to start paying attention to this style of medieval combat.