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Nightmus
01-16-2011, 07:32 PM
I'm really concerned about the design of H6. I very much liked how H5 looked (Sylvan has the best design in all HoMM series imo), except for Academy stylistics. While the programmers were innovative, especially with awesome Rakshasas, the overall arabian looks were kind of disheartening. I don't mind bringing some national twists here and there, but the Academy was simply too much! And now there's the water faction, which is Japanese to the bone!

My opinion is that the factions should never be designed as a full copy of real world nationality or it's stereotype. Don't you think it would be stupid to have a Heroes game with Arabian Wizards as in H5, Japanese naga/water people with katanas and kimonos, Russian Elves with bears, Balalaykas and earflapped fur hats, African Orcs, WW2 German Necromancers and classic duo of Haven and Inferno. It'd be ridiculous, wouldn't it?

What I want to say is that the national references should be more subtle. Kirin is obviously an orient-type dragon, okay. Add in nagas, everything water-associated, okay. Add a black-haired, drowned-looking, the Ring-inspired unit, oka-aaay.. But then there's samurai armor, national dresses, katanas, flags on the backs of warriors - oh my God!

I guess for H6 vanilla it's more or less set in stone, but I hope that the developers won't make another town with such a concept in future expansions.

PS What's your opinion on this subject, fellow forum readers? Am I exaggerating too much or has it been really taken too far?

Nightmus
01-16-2011, 07:32 PM
I'm really concerned about the design of H6. I very much liked how H5 looked (Sylvan has the best design in all HoMM series imo), except for Academy stylistics. While the programmers were innovative, especially with awesome Rakshasas, the overall arabian looks were kind of disheartening. I don't mind bringing some national twists here and there, but the Academy was simply too much! And now there's the water faction, which is Japanese to the bone!

My opinion is that the factions should never be designed as a full copy of real world nationality or it's stereotype. Don't you think it would be stupid to have a Heroes game with Arabian Wizards as in H5, Japanese naga/water people with katanas and kimonos, Russian Elves with bears, Balalaykas and earflapped fur hats, African Orcs, WW2 German Necromancers and classic duo of Haven and Inferno. It'd be ridiculous, wouldn't it?

What I want to say is that the national references should be more subtle. Kirin is obviously an orient-type dragon, okay. Add in nagas, everything water-associated, okay. Add a black-haired, drowned-looking, the Ring-inspired unit, oka-aaay.. But then there's samurai armor, national dresses, katanas, flags on the backs of warriors - oh my God!

I guess for H6 vanilla it's more or less set in stone, but I hope that the developers won't make another town with such a concept in future expansions.

PS What's your opinion on this subject, fellow forum readers? Am I exaggerating too much or has it been really taken too far?

SandroTheMaster
01-16-2011, 10:46 PM
Well, first, if you're going to post this kind of poll here: POST A LINK TO THE SUBJECT.

I had to look quite hard to find the leak. Allas, here it is:

http://heroescommunity.com/vie...=24719&pagenumber=12 (http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=24719&pagenumber=12)

Secondly, I like the Arabian wizards. The Arabian mythology is very closely related to wizards and I think it matches very well. Plus it didn't get too overtly Arab, it had some Egyptian and Hindu themes as well.

Thirdly, I didn't really made my mind on the Nagas as I didn't see them in action. I'll say, though, that I have a natural bias against japanese inspired themes and in particular the Katana and Samurai craze. (Samurais were just cultural warriors like many others, not demigods, get over it whoever drools over a katana).

On the other hand it is refreshing to see creatures so unfamiliar. They are certainly Japanese, yes, but their design is interesting and only one creature (thankfully) is Samurai looking.

As long as the faction isn't overtly Japanese in philosophy (like the Wizards weren't much Arab-minded at all), I won't mind. I can't stand the over-aching themes of EVERY Japanese manga/anime/film/fable ever.

Also, the Orcs are MESO-AMERICAN, not African in the least. And it is good to finally give them an actual cultural identity. I liked them, but would rather they'd gone deeper and put a coautl in the middle there.

And the Necromancers have always had actually a Gothic theme. It only SEEMS like a Nazi theme because the Nazis themselves had a strong Gothic theme.

kodial79
01-17-2011, 12:12 AM
Voted for 'I wish all towns were like these two'

You may have not noticed though but there were real life culture inspirations for the other H5 factions too. Fortress Dwarves played on a Scottish theme, Sylvan Elves on a Native American one and Orcs had Mongolian vibes to them.

I really like it when they draw inspirations from such cultures to come up with the background of the factions. Even better if the creatures added to it then, more or less fit in with all of that.

Anyway, though not subtle either, I don't think they're heavy either. As they are, they're just fine.

By the way, the "black-haired, drowned-looking, the Ring-inspired unit" is actually the classic appearance of the Yuki-no-Onna. She wasn't Ring-inspired, they always looked like that.

Oakwarrior
01-17-2011, 01:24 AM
The Haven town is inspired by real-life medieval theocracies. How more real life can you get with this (besides the obvious supernatural entities)? Nobody is giving Ubisoft a hard time because of that, are they?

Adding something familiar to a faction is good. People can relate to it.
(Orcs ftw).

I mean, I'm all for originality but sometimes you need to have something you can point out as "I've seen this before" to make it more intriguing.

Something completely alien would be cool too, though.

GoranXII
01-17-2011, 01:42 AM
Voted for 'don't care' because I don't see any fault with cherry-picking real-world cultures, just provided the faction itself has a coherent culture.

Nightmus
01-17-2011, 08:32 AM
SandroTheMaster, thanks for the link, I should have put it in the initial post myself. Will do now. Actually I won't, because, as it turned out, that'll wipe the poll results. So double thanks for your link in 1st reply!

There are 2 units that have samurai vibe to them - Wave/Tide Warrior as actual samurai and Shark Warrior/Captain with their samurai-inspired armor.

I didn't mean to imply that Orcs ARE based on African culture, nor Necropolis is Nazi-inspired. I just used used the references, which COULD have been used, that look more or less plausible, but ridiculous at the sama time.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> You may have not noticed though but there were real life culture inspirations for the other H5 factions too. &lt;...&gt; </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I surely noticed that, but in my eyes these references are not that heavy. Maybe that's because Scottish and Native American themes aren't that hyped as the two I mentioned. Academy is just your average Aladdin and 1001 nights arabian theme and with the new Sanctuary faction it's Japanese samurai films and anime all over the place! To my mind the only thing that's worse is adding something modern to the game, like guns or rap music.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The Haven town is inspired by real-life medieval theocracies. How more real life can you get with this (besides the obvious supernatural entities)? Nobody is giving Ubisoft a hard time because of that, are they? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's right. But there's hardly any fantasy themed RPG/TBS game, that doesn't have them. It's a staple and I actually have no complaints about it. Haven and Inferno are obviously based on Heaven and Hell composition of the world from the Bible. Haven is a town with the faithful people protected by the God, while Inderno pours all kinds of demons through portals from hell to invade and conquer. The conception is fine by me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> By the way, the "black-haired, drowned-looking, the Ring-inspired unit" is actually the classic appearance of the Yuki-no-Onna. She wasn't Ring-inspired, they always looked like that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've no idea who that is, so I judge as an average person who isn't familiar with Japanese deities (or whatever). To me she looks like the Ring antagonist + Rinoa Heartilly from Final Fantasy 8. Both from Japan.

Oakwarrior
01-17-2011, 08:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Wave/Tide Warrior as actual samurai and Shark Warrior/Captain with their samurai-inspired armor. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, every soldier in a medieval Japanese army had that kind of armor like the boys in the doodles Sandro linked. Just like every soldier in a medieval European army had plate/chain/whatever armor.

I'd say you just dislike Japanese references a wee bit too much http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I for one found the Rampart architecture in H3 refreshing.

Nightmus
01-17-2011, 08:54 AM
I think we have enough real-world based conflicts in games like Call of Duty. To me HoMM is a fantasy world. I've read somewhere long time ago that human brain can't develop something completely new, it always constructs images and ideas from those that are already familiar to it. Thus, the fantasy factions are always somewhat based on real world or widely known fantasy univeerses. That's fine. Moreover, the proper references make the game's world more believable. For instance, if Vikings were portrayed as Gandalf-style magicians, it would turn away some people from the game. But, on the other hand, to fully base a town on a particular real-life nation is something I'd frown upon. The Haven people and Sylvan elves are the result of many different infusions into the original idea of medieval europeans and whoever the Elves are based on (Celts? Native Americans?). The Sanctuary however screams Japanese.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I'd say you just dislike Japanese references a wee bit too much </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That may be. I've been pushed towards watching and liking anime numerous times and grew to generally hate it. But then again, I disliked Academy (though I played them more than any other town) in the first place.

ninjamanhammer
01-17-2011, 11:49 AM
LotR which is the father to most fantasy is highly based around reallife.

I like the Araby academy and Inka orcss but am not very fond of the samurai nagas however.

ImperialDane
01-17-2011, 03:36 PM
I must admit i don't see the issue. Yes they draw from real life, but then, who doesn't ? And yes you can say they just draw from x period and y faction within x period. But if you read some of the notes you'll actually note how they try and mesh things together for a different aestethic.

I mean with the haven you have this mix of Feudal knighthood, arthurian romantic legend where everyone has really shiny armour and ornate helmets (even the footsoldiers !) and a bit of theocracy.

I mean just saying that the academy chaps are fully arabic is probably missing some of the minor details. What those details i can't necessarily say but i wager if you were to look carefully you'd find them.

And i must admit, except for the fat guy on the hookah, i really liked the aestethic of the Wizards, i liked their ornately dressed mages with their scrolls.

yes there will be things you won't like, but such is life i think. I mean i'd like for some of the more ornate helmetry on the haven troops to be toned down a wee bit and perhaps made a little less shiny http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

And if this is railing against the Sanctuary.. Well why aren't you also against the orcs with their mongolian aestethics ? Or what seems to be here some latin american ? Not entirely sure. but just to decry something for not being of European origin seems a bit narrow.

Nightmus
01-17-2011, 04:35 PM
I've nothing against Orcs because of 2 things. Firstly, I never play might. Secondly, more important, I can't really say Orcs are nothing but Mongolians. There are goblins, harpies and cyclops, which aren't of mongolian origin. The race looks diverse, but also integral.

I've no grudge against a little japanese vibe. For instance, I really-really like Kirin (http://shareimage.org/images/h9a7zgxxlcvgvpylhtcf.jpg), but what bugs me is that the only non-japanese related creature of Sanctuary is Spring/River Spirit (http://shareimage.org/images/h9a7zgxxlcvgvpylhtcf.jpg). I like it very much, apart from it's nose piercing with a chain attached to the ear. Someone in heroes community has pointed out that this kind of accessory comes from India.

Edit: Hmm, actually the devs might have ridden of this accessory. On the famous "Christmas Tree" it's clearly seen, but on the pictures that I linked, which have leaked later then the tree, the chain isn't present. I'm not sure if it is legitimate to post a link to that tree picture here though...

ImperialDane
01-17-2011, 05:58 PM
And Naga are japanese ? Are Sharkmen japanese ? Are the nautical references here and there japanese ? I mean yes, there is certainly some japanese influence but at the same time, if by you accepting that as long as it's not solely japanese like with the orcs not being solely mongolian (which they aren't anyhows, can't remember the other mix)

But if you take look at the thing you very keenly linking there's not only Naga, but medusas and .. shark men. I'd be surprised if that is somehow japanese only.

So again, i think you might be applying a bit too narrow view here.

Destruction3402
01-17-2011, 07:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nightmus:
That may be. I've been pushed towards watching and liking anime numerous times and grew to generally hate it. But then again, I disliked Academy (though I played them more than any other town) in the first place. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Japanese culture is MUCH more than just anime, for your information.

Nightmus
01-17-2011, 08:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And Naga are japanese ? Are Sharkmen japanese ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, but that's not my point. I imply that almost all the new faction's creatures are inspired/related/based on Japanese culture. Sharkmen aren't, but sharkmen wearing typical samurai armor details are. Wave Warriors are nagas, but they are fully equipped with typical samurai armor and wielding katanas. Snow maiden, as it appears, is a representation of some Japanese Yuki-no-Onna as poited out by kodial79. Kirin is Japanese-looking as it is. And Kappa/Shoya is something I just can't describe, but I swear it has connotations to some weird creatures from anime, there's lots of 'em. Do orcs have such a strong influence? I don't think so. Even Academy, which I mentioned, isn't as obvious as Sanctuary. They had gremlins, gargoyles and Rakshasas and Titans, which have nothing to do with Arabian theme.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Japanese culture is MUCH more than just anime, for your information. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, it's kind of obvious, don't you think? I actually can't find where have I restricted Japanese culture to anime... There was a concern about the possibility of me being biased towards the new faction due to my personal opinion on Japanese culture. I admitted such a possibility, giving a reference to one probable source of bias. Or should I have written a wall of text on my personal opinion on various aspects of this culture? Doubt anyone would have been interested if I did.

Ygds11
01-17-2011, 09:07 PM
I like 4.5/7 of the leaked line-up for the Sanctuary. Personally I thought it was about time a Japanese themed nation was brought in. The Rampart of H3 came close and was quite inspired by an Asian feel however.

What I don't like is the use of the snow maiden and the river spirit. They look like they are too similar in feel. Though I am pretty sure the snow and ice maidens are long range (fan throwers) and the water spirit is likely a psuedoflyer. The Kirin should also not look quite so dragon like. If I recall most art depicts the kirin with hooves and a shorter body. If those arts are any indication (which they might not be) this design (while stylistically fitting) is not a Kirin.

I am personally surprised the Oni was not used as an alternate elite unit. Sure it's a demon in lore but so is the Kappa (demon and kami being sometimes interchangeable), but I would rather see it working it's way towards the enemy on a series of waves than the water spirit (assuming that it has such a movement scheme).


Anyway. I really don't have a problem with the art direction, or the use of real world cultures as a basis. Why go and think something up when it's already been done for you? In a world as rich in varied cultures as our own, I find the real world to be a great resource for this kind of thing.

But I also believe in the principle of synthesis. The orcs seem to have a synthesized culture. Their looks is based on a wide variety of tribal stone-age and/or iron-age cultures focusing specifically on Mesoamerican and Polynesian cultures. The artists used characteristics of these cultures to synthesize the look for the H6 orcs.

I would not be surprised if the Sanctuary has more character of a synthesis of Far east cultures, which will become more relevant to examine when more information is revealed, some two months from now.

Now this brings me to a crucial point. We actually know very little about the final identity of the Naga faction. While the artwork is indeed close to final, it is obvious that it is not. We have no idea what the final product looks like, whether units have been dropped from that roster or whether the whole feel is still in the works. The fact that the faction is not to be revealed for two months, may indicate some substantial tuning left. As I believe one insider told us, they don't want to reveal anything that is not certain. Now I think the units will be what they were in these pictures, but as for the final look, we only have a rough idea.
There may still be more disparate asiatic themes that were incorporated, to synthesize a culture that highly resembles Far-east aesthetics.

In the end we know nothing for certain.

P.S.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> And Kappa/Shoya is something I just can't describe, but I swear it has connotations to some weird creatures from anime, there's lots of 'em. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope you weren't implying that the Kappa has it's origins in Japanese anime. While the artwork could be debated to be inspired by anime the Kappa of folklore is quite ancient. I myself was very surprised that the bowl of water on it's head was there, it is actually not a very bad representation. I am just glad it did not turn out to look like a Teenage mutant ninja turtle.

Nightmus
01-17-2011, 09:47 PM
Two months to the 5th faction revelation date leaves room for some changes, but I still incline to believe the devs will tweak only minor things, because the releaase date is nigh
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I hope you weren't implying that the Kappa has it's origins in Japanese anime. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm afraid I was... =) Don't put me to shame, I've no knowledge of Japanese deities, but the overall absurd (but creative) design of the creature reminds me of various creatures I could only have seen in anime.

SandroTheMaster
01-17-2011, 11:12 PM
Eh, I think the Sharkmen give a good Oni feel. Though it seems wrong to have them as core.

Also, the Spring/River Spirits ARE Japanese, though with Hindu aesthetics. River spirits are very high in the hierarchy of Japanese mythology. I'd say maybe the equivalent of the Titans of the Greek's.

The Kappas, though, I liked soooooo much. The Water Dragon is cool too.

kodial79
01-18-2011, 12:20 AM
Actually I would preffer it if we referred to this as an Oriental-themed faction and not strictly a Japanese one. Besides Kappa and the Snow Maiden, no other mythological Japanese creatures made an appearance in this line-up. Ki-Rin is chinese, for example. The Spring Spirit's cultural appearance has a sort of Thai feeling to them. Nagas are sort of common to all coastal regions' myths from India to Japan. Sure, Nagas and Sharkmen are fashioned after Japanese warriors and samurai. But even though it's true that the Academy's line-up did not have many Arabian mythological creatures, the entire line-up was fashioned after the Arabic culture. And it's not just that but they're buildings too. We haven't seen the fifth faction's town yet. But if there's any indication on some hints provided by a few screenshots, then their town will not have a heavy Japanese architecture but a South Eastern Asian one. So I would think that referring to them as a generally Oriental themed faction is more correctly than just saying Japanese.

By the way, in a lot of modern interpretations, the Kappas appeared to be benevolent, unlike Oni who are always malicious. Sanctuary is supposed to advertise serenity from what I gather. Oni would not fit in at all with this, I think...

Oakwarrior
01-18-2011, 02:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Do orcs have such a strong influence? I don't think so. Even Academy, which I mentioned, isn't as obvious as Sanctuary. They had gremlins, gargoyles and Rakshasas and Titans, which have nothing to do with Arabian theme. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually yes they do. It's Aztec/Olmec in your face all the time. Just as a Sharkdude is clad in Japanese armor makes it Japanese (by your logic), an Orc in Aztec regalia makes it Aztec.
Academy was the most obvious of them all, actually. Elephants? Pointy-shoed mages? Genies? Rakshasa? It's all coming from there (Hindu mostly).

Your gripes are only personal, nothing to do with similarity to real life here. If the coolest unit it HoMM had a Japanese origin, you'd hate it as well, probably (note how I said probably http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif ).

Nightmus
01-18-2011, 06:43 AM
That's why I created a poll thread - not to whine all over the place, but to find out if my concerns are shared by the community or I'm mostly exaggerating over the line-up of drastic changes to Wizards in H5, then having no Academy/Sylvan/Dungeon in H6, then having to only hope the fifth faction will substitute for this loss, to seing the 5th faction having the same approach as H5 Academy.

Besides, I like Kirin, be it from Japan or China, so you can't really say I'll dismiss anything oriental.

By the looks of it my point wasn't moot as many people agree/somewhat agree with me. Anyway, I've found lots of new interesting information in this thread, thanks to you.

Oakwarrior
01-18-2011, 07:03 AM
Just to clarify, I don't have anything against the thread or the idea behind it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I just found your arguments a bit too narrowly set, that's all.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Besides, I like Kirin, be it from Japan or China, so you can't really say I'll dismiss anything oriental. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did say Japanese, not Oriental.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

ImperialDane
01-18-2011, 01:31 PM
So far all i see is that you have a problem with the japanese and arabic bits, mongoalian and olmec.. no problems. I suppose that is what calls a matter of taste http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Personally i'm just hoping that Haven will be interesting and not continually extremely shiny and ornate.. seems a bit sterile and generic to be honest.

Nightmus
01-19-2011, 01:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I did say Japanese, not Oriental.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believed he was Japanese until I was corrected.

Wrote a long text, expanding on my initial post, but decided to delete it as it would probably have lead only to flame. I'll just say this instead. The towns should be based on fantasy elements. If addressing certain nationalities - then bring their mythology and religion motifs, not their history. The first thing that I have a problem with is garments. 2 out of 7 creatures wear samurai outfits and one of them is wearing a traditional Japanese clothing. What's so special about samurai? They aren't mythical, aren't made up and hardly any mystery is to be found around them. The Aztecs are surrounded by aura of myths, even Academy had mages and djinns, which directly come from Arabian mythology and philosophy (however, mages come from many a place and I prefer a Merlin/Gandalf type). As it turned out, some Sanctuary creatures represent actual figures from national beliefs, I didn't know that. But what samurai are here for is beyond me. Reminds me a history lesson.

Oakwarrior
01-19-2011, 01:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The Aztecs are surrounded by aura of myths </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They had Jaguar Warriors. Well that sounds oddly familiar... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But what samurai are here for is beyond me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't really see samurai anywhere here. I see a lizardman and a sharkman wearing laquered armor with elements taken from traditional feudal Japanese armor. Indeed, the Naga sports katanas, the traditional feudal Japanese swords, but so did the Naga from H3 (alongside with every other possible sword there is, though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ).

kodial79
01-19-2011, 02:03 AM
Even so, Japanese mythological heroes for example, did not have a different culture than Japanese historical heroes. Both would dress like samurai, ninja, geisha, whatever... Anyway, there were mythical Samurai just as there were historical ones.

Or let me give you another example: Orcs are fantasy creatures, dressed up as Aztecan warriors who are a historical culture. Orcs have nothing to do with Aztecs, it's just that this culture has been chosen to represent them.

Let's go over that again with different keywords: Nagas are fantasy creatures, dressed up as Japanese warriors who are a historical culture. Nagas have nothing to do with Japanese, it's just that this culture has been chosen to represent them.

Japan has a great mythology which rivals even that of the Greeks and Arabs, and it's more recognizable than the Aztecan one, at least. Even you who admittedly is not so familiar with Japanese myths, if you try to re-count them, you'll see you know more than Aztecans ones, which are even more obscure.

So Academy has Djiins, and those Djiins were dressed up in an Arabic fashion. Any arguments there? No, because you very well know that Djiins come from the Arabic mythology. Well, Sanctuary has Snow Maidens (which is more or less what Yuki-no-Onna means in Japanese, lit. Woman of Snow), and Snow Maidens are dressed up in a Japanese fashion. For the same reason as Djiins, there should be no argument there either as Snow Maidens come from the Japanese mythology.

The point is, there's no reason as to why should the Japanese or any other culture and mythology of the Far East be ignored for whatever the reasons. HoMM draws inspiration from the myths and cultures of all the world, and the Oriental one is among the most classic. I find that fascinating and I hope to continue like that.

draug91
01-29-2011, 06:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Sylvan Elves on a Native American one </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think its celtic, rather. Native Americans had shaman, Sylvan had druids much like in ye olde Ireland, also the swirly pattern frequently seen on the Sylvan faction is definitely celtic. As well as dragons, unicorns, pixies and so forth are from British/European mythology, so this would make more sense.

I think orcs on the other hand, in HOMMV that is, were a mix of Native American and possibly African mythology, with a Mongolian touch (Khan, and the certain styles of hats).

On topic: I like how the said factions refer to the ethnicity whose mythology they borrow from. I loved the eastern Academy, and I'm waiting eagerly for the Sanctuary.

mcgslo
01-31-2011, 02:05 AM
isn't obvious that factions/creatures will borrow something from familiar history or myths?

So what kind of armor should shark warriors wear? They could completly imagine new armor but right now we have so much "stuff" that has already beeing imagined and so much different creatures, items, weapons, factions, etc... that is hard to imagine non absurd new stuff.

I dont mind that they borrow whatever stuff they want from wherever film, history, myth, other game.... as long at the end it has its own feeling and has a place in the game and that it actualy fits in.

For me Dwarf faction in Heroes 5 was very bad design... not armor.. but copy pasted dwarfs... i hate dwarfs http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (and they gave them overpowered runes, hope never to see runes concept again)

GrandVanguard
02-16-2011, 02:07 PM
Sanctuary Faction is 100% confirmed, I suggest you look at the subtle-give-away on the new Michael development page, one of the pictures shows the same Naga-Samurai that is shown on the aleged leak.
I believe that confirms quite clearly that Ubi was probably hinting it ;P hehehe, not trying to get into trouble mind you, just pointing out whats already been shown.

To be honest though, I like the fact that they're inspired by the themes, even if they dont dominate the style.

I like the Japanease style of Sanctum, just as I liked the Arabian theme of Academy and the Christian theme of Haven.

I personally enjoy them all.

Warlord_Ade
02-19-2011, 05:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImperialDane:
So far all i see is that you have a problem with the japanese and arabic bits, mongoalian and olmec.. no problems. I suppose that is what calls a matter of taste http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Personally i'm just hoping that Haven will be interesting and not continually extremely shiny and ornate.. seems a bit sterile and generic to be honest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very nicely put, totaly agree just hope all the factions will be interesting. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Shawn85
02-27-2011, 08:58 PM
Shamelessly ignorant post. I loved Academy the way they are and if Naga are Japanese themed thats fantastic aswell. Why does everything have to be so Eurocentric? Are you also mad that necropolis is going Egypian and will have pyramids and not some lame generic castle?

Shawn85
02-27-2011, 09:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SandroTheMaster:
Well, first, if you're going to post this kind of poll here: POST A LINK TO THE SUBJECT.

I had to look quite hard to find the leak. Allas, here it is:

http://heroescommunity.com/vie...=24719&pagenumber=12 (http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=24719&pagenumber=12)

Secondly, I like the Arabian wizards. The Arabian mythology is very closely related to wizards and I think it matches very well. Plus it didn't get too overtly Arab, it had some Egyptian and Hindu themes as well.

Thirdly, I didn't really made my mind on the Nagas as I didn't see them in action. I'll say, though, that I have a natural bias against japanese inspired themes and in particular the Katana and Samurai craze. (Samurais were just cultural warriors like many others, not demigods, get over it whoever drools over a katana).

On the other hand it is refreshing to see creatures so unfamiliar. They are certainly Japanese, yes, but their design is interesting and only one creature (thankfully) is Samurai looking.

As long as the faction isn't overtly Japanese in philosophy (like the Wizards weren't much Arab-minded at all), I won't mind. I can't stand the over-aching themes of EVERY Japanese manga/anime/film/fable ever.

Also, the Orcs are MESO-AMERICAN, not African in the least. And it is good to finally give them an actual cultural identity. I liked them, but would rather they'd gone deeper and put a coautl in the middle there.

And the Necromancers have always had actually a Gothic theme. It only SEEMS like a Nazi theme because the Nazis themselves had a strong Gothic theme. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent post.