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BrotherJayne
07-25-2007, 03:47 PM
As you leave IL-2 for the greener pastures of BoB, could you, perchance, leave IL-2 the ability to mod aircraft, and a performance modifier to the AI to allow soloplay?
If you'd have AI aircraft operate at 95 to 90% of their current motor output, you wouldn't have the AI impossible to outfly.
Just an idea

BrotherJayne
07-25-2007, 03:47 PM
As you leave IL-2 for the greener pastures of BoB, could you, perchance, leave IL-2 the ability to mod aircraft, and a performance modifier to the AI to allow soloplay?
If you'd have AI aircraft operate at 95 to 90% of their current motor output, you wouldn't have the AI impossible to outfly.
Just an idea

JG54_Lukas
07-26-2007, 12:50 AM
No

BrotherJayne
07-26-2007, 09:47 AM
Who the f*** are you?

Waldo.Pepper
07-26-2007, 09:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG54_Lukas:
No </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1

He a wise man. Who the **** are you?

FWIW I think the AI are quite easily out flown, and that you need more stick time.

BrotherJayne
07-26-2007, 10:00 AM
It has been openly awknoledged that the AI are capible of performing boogliningly high G manuvers without lose of KE. Time and time again, they pull crazy manuvers.
But, seeing as that the great JG54_Lukas and Waldo.Pepper have stated it thus, the problem absolutly must exist on my side.

BrotherJayne
07-26-2007, 10:01 AM
Sigh, now I rember why I disliked IL-2 so much :-(
Great game, stuffy, aristocratic community

Waldo.Pepper
07-26-2007, 10:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherJayne:
It has been openly awknoledged that the AI are capible of performing boogliningly high G manuvers without lose of KE. Time and time again, they pull crazy manuvers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 Yep you betcha - I totally agree.

It is insurmountable? - No.
Is it challenging? - Yes.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the problem absolutely must exist on my side. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 Yup you betcha - I totally agree. If by problem you mean your inability to deal with it.

My advice. (and it is only advice and opinion which you are free to ignore, or ridicule as you please - )

1. Practice more
2. Turn down the AI to Average or less.
3. Maybe post a track of your inability so that others can offer assistance.

JG54_Lukas
07-26-2007, 04:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherJayne:
Who the f*** are you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Read the sig?

BrotherJayne
07-26-2007, 04:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherJayne:
It has been openly awknoledged that the AI are capible of performing boogliningly high G manuvers without lose of KE. Time and time again, they pull crazy manuvers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 Yep you betcha - I totally agree.

It is insurmountable? - No.
Is it challenging? - Yes.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the problem absolutely must exist on my side. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 Yup you betcha - I totally agree. If by problem you mean your inability to deal with it.

My advice. (and it is only advice and opinion which you are free to ignore, or ridicule as you please - )

1. Practice more
2. Turn down the AI to Average or less.
3. Maybe post a track of your inability so that others can offer assistance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the fact is, the community that plays single player might eventually want to move on to multiplay, in which case the AI beating gimicks will be useless.

I think that I'm not alone in saying that it would be much prefferable to have the AI fly like humans, so as that things learned in single apply to multi, and vica versa. It shouldn't be two entirly different flight sims between single and multi, yah know&gt;?

Urufu_Shinjiro
07-26-2007, 06:21 PM
Then learn to program and show everyone how it's done if you think it's so easy,lol. Oleg and team can create this great sim but you think they just layed down on the AI? Would we like the AI to be better? YES! Will the AI get better? No.

Waldo.Pepper
07-26-2007, 07:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But the fact is, the community that plays single player might eventually want to move on to multiplay, in which case the AI beating gimicks will be useless. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


+1 Yes I totally agree again. See I'm not such a bad guy eh?

Even if you got your wish and the AI were reduced to whatever parameter you wanted then this (repeating)
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the fact is, the community that plays single player might eventually want to move on to multiplay, in which case the AI beating gimicks will be useless. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

... would still be true and nothing would be solved. The jump from AI to human opponents will always be totally different and a vast change. The AI in any game will never train you to be competent vs a human opponent.

Capiche?

Blondeknght
07-26-2007, 08:30 PM
Waldo... have you ever uttered the words ... "Oh bloody hell!"

Waldo.Pepper
07-26-2007, 09:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blondeknght:
Waldo... have you ever uttered the words ... "Oh bloody hell!" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only when dealing with my wife. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don't think I have anything against anyone. I just think that in this case BrotherJayne is off the mark.

BrotherJayne
07-26-2007, 09:49 PM
Being able to identify the abilitys of a particular aircraft is also a huge part of the online game, and the AI is in noway constrained to the capibilitys of said aircraft

Akronnick
07-26-2007, 09:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But the fact is, the community that plays single player might eventually want to move on to multiplay, in which case the AI beating gimicks will be useless. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


+1 Yes I totally agree again. See I'm not such a bad guy eh?

Even if you got your wish and the AI were reduced to whatever parameter you wanted then this (repeating)
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the fact is, the community that plays single player might eventually want to move on to multiplay, in which case the AI beating gimicks will be useless. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

... would still be true and nothing would be solved. The jump from AI to human opponents will always be totally different and a vast change. The AI in any game will never train you to be competent vs a human opponent.

Capiche? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think Han Solo said it best: Good against the [AI] is one thing, good against the living, that's something else.

Waldo.Pepper
07-26-2007, 09:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherJayne:
Being able to identify the abilitys of a particular aircraft is also a huge part of the online game, and the AI is in noway constrained to the capabilities of said aircraft </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it is the case that the AI is in "no way" constrained by the performance figures of the plane then your original proposal

"operate at 95 to 90%"

would not make them magically able to fly within

"the abilities of a particular aircraft"

If you still think that it would then you really should set the AI planes to Novice to see what it is like. Have you at least tried it?

Interminate
07-27-2007, 07:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherJayne:
Sigh, now I rember why I disliked IL-2 so much :-(
Great game, stuffy, aristocratic community </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My feelings exactly. Your question is fair and they are hijacking your thread. Typical of this forum. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

VW-IceFire
07-27-2007, 10:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherJayne:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherJayne:
It has been openly awknoledged that the AI are capible of performing boogliningly high G manuvers without lose of KE. Time and time again, they pull crazy manuvers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 Yep you betcha - I totally agree.

It is insurmountable? - No.
Is it challenging? - Yes.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the problem absolutely must exist on my side. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 Yup you betcha - I totally agree. If by problem you mean your inability to deal with it.

My advice. (and it is only advice and opinion which you are free to ignore, or ridicule as you please - )

1. Practice more
2. Turn down the AI to Average or less.
3. Maybe post a track of your inability so that others can offer assistance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the fact is, the community that plays single player might eventually want to move on to multiplay, in which case the AI beating gimicks will be useless.

I think that I'm not alone in saying that it would be much prefferable to have the AI fly like humans, so as that things learned in single apply to multi, and vica versa. It shouldn't be two entirly different flight sims between single and multi, yah know&gt;? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It'd be nice for the AI to fly like humans...BUT...even if Oleg were to magically open source the code tomorrow I doubt we'd see AI pilots flying like humans by the end of the week, month, or year. Another community I'm involved with...Descent: FreeSpace/FreeSpace 2 was made open source years ago...there was some effort to make the AI better (its a really basic AI compared to what IL-2 is) and it became insurmountable for those who were interested (partly a problem of breaking backwards compatibility but also in making it work in a way that was "better"). AI programming is harder than anything else when it comes down to it. Its not impossible but there are researchers at MIT and other research institutions trying to figure out how to make it more human like...its not a easy fix.

Bearcat99
07-28-2007, 12:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherJayne:
Sigh, now I rember why I disliked IL-2 so much :-(
Great game, stuffy, aristocratic community </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have met us all yes? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Aircraft mod?
NEVER at least I sure hope not.

AI mod?
Well they both may be so tied in that we will never see it.

If you disliked the sim because of the people who play it..... after meeting what.... maybe 7% of the folks.... then maybe it just isnt for you.

shiffty89
07-28-2007, 02:05 AM
one idea would be to tune the AI like some of the Unflyable planes. E.G Hartman 109G6. Flying against this was alot of fun. The plane was acting like a human rather than using its super engine to fly off.

The ai now are beatable it takes patients but humans dont fly like that. They should But if they get shot at they dont fly straight.

LEBillfish
07-28-2007, 02:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG54_Lukas:
No </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1FWIW I think the AI are quite easily out flown, and that you need more stick time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 +1 makes....uh....what comes after 1 but I agree.

No modding of the aircraft or AI past what we can do is the way to stay.

knightflyte
07-29-2007, 11:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherJayne:
It has been openly awknoledged that the AI are capible of performing boogliningly high G manuvers without lose of KE. Time and time again, they pull crazy manuvers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 Yep you betcha - I totally agree.

It is insurmountable? - No.
Is it challenging? - Yes.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the problem absolutely must exist on my side. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 Yup you betcha - I totally agree. If by problem you mean your inability to deal with it.

My advice. (and it is only advice and opinion which you are free to ignore, or ridicule as you please - )

1. Practice more
2. Turn down the AI to Average or less.
3. Maybe post a track of your inability so that others can offer assistance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Yes the AI is manageable to catch and shoot down..... but it SURE as he11 ain't because I'm using my aircraft's advantages. It's because I've memorised the AI's flight patterns...... or I turn tail to make it predictalby chase me down so I can re-enter battle.

It's RARELY because my bird has alt and speed advantage. If I miss on the first pass (which happens on the rare occasion....LOL) I end up playing a game of tag verses an opponant who doesn't over heat and can climb faster than I no matter WHAT state or advantage I am in.

The AI does inverted rolls without energy loss or pilot performance loss.

More than enough have posted these issues that tracks aren't necessary. Flying to your planes strength DOES help, but the tactics become useless over any prolonged dogfight because of the AI.

Turn off CEM, STALLS, and the AI can still outperform in areas it shouldn't since I've taken myself out of the equation of engine management and stalls.

It just is what it is...... a 6 year old game that was and STILL is pretty dang awesome, despite some flaws.


DO practice angine management to get the best from your machine. Look at the AIRCRAFT COMPARE in the IL2 program file. You'll see optimum tach settings. This will help you get the best powerband and help avoid overheating.

DON'T over control and jerk the stick. You loose energy.


These two things helped the most. They WON'T aleviate the AI issues, but you can deal with them a bit easier if you do master CEM/Manuevers/ and knowing you're planes strengths and weaknesses.

No601_prangster
07-30-2007, 10:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">aristocratic community </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey I resemble that comment!

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/09/ceo_socnet/image/burger-king.jpg

knightflyte
07-30-2007, 11:00 AM
Did the KING just finish filming the money shot? I guess he had it HIS WAY.

super71957
07-30-2007, 03:39 PM
Not taking sides here but I think one of the worst things that could happen is making the A.I. to easy.Hey I am all for having them fly exactly like a human,as has been said though it is not possible just yet.One day soon I hope!!
Difficult A.I. in my opinion has made me a better pilot in that I do have to deal with some of there oddities,to dumb them down would be just plain boring.I do realise at times they can be a bit frustrating.I run a mix of veteran and ace just for this reason.
I really believe the developers did the best they could with the knowledge and computing power available. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Redwulf 32 - Nis
07-30-2007, 06:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherJayne:
Who the f*** are you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice touch ........

knightflyte
07-30-2007, 10:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by super71957:
I really believe the developers did the best they could with the knowledge and computing power available. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ding ding ding ding!!!!!! Absolutely 100 % correct.

Bearcat99
07-30-2007, 11:19 PM
I think that this sim as it is rocks.. especially when you consider that the engine is what... 10 years old.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Pffft... I'll ask you this... What sim were you flying in 97... and how does it fly by the standards of today as far as graphics, flight models, the works?

I rest my case..

Xiolablu3
07-31-2007, 12:06 PM
To expose the code to modding would basically kill the stuff that keeps this sim so alive - the multiplayer. Still 1000's of people playing online every night in a 6 year old flight sim is something amazing.

Its all because people cannot create many different servers with the flight models they THINK the planes should have.

We would have one server for US planes, one for German, ONe for British etc. One side would be overmodelled, the other undermoddelled.

It would surely suck. Keep the balancing and modelling inhouse please! (or at least models must be APPRROVED by Maddox) Dont kill IL2!

Revolter1
07-31-2007, 03:48 PM
Anyone remember EAW ?!?!?!?!

I rest my case... !!!!!!!

NO MODDING

BrotherJayne
07-31-2007, 03:55 PM
Yeah, EAW was okayish
Anyhow, modding should be enabled, but it should require a ifle match between servers and players. That way the majority of servers will still be running the unmodded game, but should any particular mod set gain acceptance in the general community, it'll have it's own servers and maybe even eventually find its way into the offical game.
Sorta how Red Orchestra is doing it

Hawgdog
07-31-2007, 03:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherJayne:
Sigh, now I rember why I disliked IL-2 so much :-(
Great game, stuffy, aristocratic community </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am simply too important and have a disease which makes me intolerant of dumbhattery to read the whole thread, so anyone ask why the P-40 in German markings?

Revolter1
07-31-2007, 04:22 PM
BrotherJayne,

EAW was okayish..??????? Not in the end it wasn't and that's because people like you and others modded the living **** out of it. Hence, people got fed up with it and left in droves as I recall. I imagine your wishful thinking will amount to nothing in the long run anyway. Again.... NO MODDING PERIOD.

BTW.. I extremely approve of the above post's by HawgDog and Bearcat and Xiolablu3 and etc, etc.... get my drift

SlowBurn68
07-31-2007, 05:45 PM
What a wonderful thread full of self importance and snobbery - Bravo IL-2 community...Bravo...

avimimus
07-31-2007, 05:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG54_Lukas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherJayne:
Who the f*** are you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Read the sig? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So your Luke_FF? (Nice cockpit btw. I still fly the A-2)

stalkervision
07-31-2007, 06:51 PM
http://members.aol.com/dheitm8612/gstang1.htm

? Captured P-40?

http://members.aol.com/dheitm8612/gstang1.htm

there were lots of captured allied planes apparently..

http://members.aol.com/dheitm8612/GP38G.gif

stalkervision
07-31-2007, 07:01 PM
Japanese P-40's...


http://www.j-aircraft.com/captured/capturedby/p40warhawk/p-40e_tachikawa.jpg

JG54_Lukas
07-31-2007, 08:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by avimimus:

So your Luke_FF? (Nice cockpit btw. I still fly the A-2) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aye, 'tis I. The handle I use here hearkens back to when I was involved in the original VEF back in the old IL-2 days. Guess that makes me a stuffy aristocrat. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BrotherJayne
07-31-2007, 09:00 PM
Long story short, a friend called me a 109 *****... so I beat him in a P-40 C... then made a kraut skin for it just to add a hint of mockery, and beat him again

knightflyte
08-01-2007, 01:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherJayne:
Long story short, a friend called me a 109 *****... so I beat him in a P-40 C... then made a kraut skin for it just to add a hint of mockery, and beat him again </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's cold man. Real cold. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif