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blazer-glory
05-10-2005, 02:43 PM
Ive only been playing this a while but have noticed something that is starting to make me question the handling of these planes. Im still learning how to handle the machines in the game and on the whole its a pretty slow and 'painful' process but Im convinved the AI pilots have an easier ride. I can be flying an identical plane to the computers and he will be darting this way and that,climbing and diving at all angles. In MY plane, all I have to do is bank slightly left or right and I'll stall and tumble to the ground. I realize theres alot to flying but even when being very easy on the stick my plane just flies like a brick at times. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

blazer-glory
05-10-2005, 02:43 PM
Ive only been playing this a while but have noticed something that is starting to make me question the handling of these planes. Im still learning how to handle the machines in the game and on the whole its a pretty slow and 'painful' process but Im convinved the AI pilots have an easier ride. I can be flying an identical plane to the computers and he will be darting this way and that,climbing and diving at all angles. In MY plane, all I have to do is bank slightly left or right and I'll stall and tumble to the ground. I realize theres alot to flying but even when being very easy on the stick my plane just flies like a brick at times. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

tigertalon
05-10-2005, 02:56 PM
Remember to start maneouvering at sufficient speed. Some planes required more (Fw190) some less (J8A) speed. At their best speed, any fighter is light on controls and very responsive.

blazer-glory
05-10-2005, 03:02 PM
Great avatar http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

dieg777
05-10-2005, 03:32 PM
The aI have a simplified flight model compaired to player- As the versions have been updated and newer versions and patches released the flight models are tweaked, some prefer certain versions over others http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
The next patch to be released for PF or IL2fb+Aces+PF is promised to have improved flight models and to update AI so that they will fly the same as player- there will probably be a cost in increased system specs tho.

blazer-glory
05-10-2005, 03:38 PM
Ahhh so my suspicions may be true! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Echo50
05-10-2005, 03:45 PM
check to make sure your control inputs are set properly. having the pitch set wrong could induce spins. the adjustable "bars" should make a nice parabolic curve.

You can sometimes recover your plane when it starts spinning, if you have enough altitude. heres my stall procedure:

Power off
Rudder into spin
Pop flaps out
Add Negative elevator.
if you recover, add power slowly and pull out as gently as possible.

To make the game less cpu intensive, AI pilots have some liberties with their flight models. Most noticabley the can slow down extremely fast, and their controls stay quick and responsive even at extremely low and high speeds.

check your airspeed during the engagement. try to stay faster than them. if they break or spit-s go vertical and come back down on them. If they try to follow you up, get your plane as high as possible, then comeback down when they are stalling. its called a "rope".

T_O_A_D
05-10-2005, 03:55 PM
AI cheat!!!!!!!!!!!!

So use thier cheats against them.

Suppossably they are to get better at mimicking real flight on the next patch.

I lay money on they still will cheat some how though.

blazer-glory
05-10-2005, 04:27 PM
Whoa you lost me there Echo. How do I do the pitch checks etc? Is there an in game menu?

Throughtout the computer gaming history, the computer controlled characters always have an easier ride. Just hope there's never a war between man and machine! They won't be affected by walls,stairs or anything!! :s

BuzzU
05-10-2005, 04:37 PM
I expect it to get worse in 4.0, or better. Depends on whether you like it hard or easy.

Echo50
05-10-2005, 04:46 PM
I'm assuming your using a joystick. From the main menu go to: Hardware Setup then choose Input. You should see a section labeled Joystick Axes. from the drop down menu you can change Pitch, Yaw and Roll. the left bar represents 10% stick movement, the far right 100% stick movement. Make sure its set low on the left. heres my setup.

Pitch 13 19 27 33 40 47 59 69 86 100
Roll 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
Yaw 12 17 25 32 39 47 55 67 84 100
though after a while this just becomes personal preference. Plus some joysticks act differently.

if its set too high on the left small stick movements can cause full elevator deflection, resulting in a spin.

blazer-glory
05-10-2005, 04:53 PM
Thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

irR4tiOn4L
05-10-2005, 07:44 PM
as far as i know that spin recovery is wrong - from the manuals from 1942 the Pacific Airwar (very good old game and documentation) the correct procedure in real life was:

Jam rudder in direction opposite spin and hold it there

half a spin later - Push the stick full forward, jamming the elevators to full. Hold them there.

Neutral ailerons were apparently essential to escaping a spin in real life - apparently you were not to adjust the throttle at all either.

In IL-2 and PF however, the best way i find is:

Power off
Stick all the way forward to dive
elevators full in direction of spin
rudder full opposite to spin

Pull out gently when you feel control coming back to you and the elevators - youll be in a steep dive though

WTE_Ibis
05-11-2005, 02:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BuzzU:
I expect it to get worse in 4.0, or better. Depends on whether you like it hard or easy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

-------------------------------------------------

It has to be hard to be of any use.

Te_Vigo
05-11-2005, 08:35 AM
I'm led to believe in RL; the more unstable the plane, the easier it was to escape a spin.

Do I need to burn that reference book?

womenfly
05-11-2005, 10:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Te_Vigo:
I'm led to believe in RL; the more unstable the plane, the easier it was to escape a spin.

Do I need to burn that reference book? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In RL flying that is true. The more stable an aircraft is the easier to recover from a spin ... on the other hand, the more stable the aircraft is the harder it is to get into one! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

JG301_nils
05-11-2005, 10:15 AM
Cool SIG, womenfly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

irR4tiOn4L
05-11-2005, 08:32 PM
You know fire up Pacific fighters quick mission builder with just you and a wingman, and then try and stay on your wingmans tail! They are harder to down than any enemy pilot!!

That to me demonstrates a problem with the AI

Not sure, but it seems to me from the IL-2 demo that the AI acted more realistically there.

bolillo_loco
05-11-2005, 11:06 PM
yes I too had a similar problem, might I suggest my method. I simply went to the garage and picked up a nice 24 oz. hammer and went back to my computer room. everytime the game did something I did not agree with I gave my computer a good wack with the hammer.........after a few wacks I taught it a lesson because it never did anything to upset me after that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif but I did have to buy a new computer and start all over again.

irR4tiOn4L
05-13-2005, 06:57 AM
maybe you should take that hammer to your head each time it comes up with such ideas..

IAFS_Painter
05-13-2005, 07:02 AM
There is also a lot to be said for having a set-up that suits you.

I used to tip-stall a lot. A few subtle changes to my joy-stick settings helped there - I still tip-stall, but now it's missions per stall, not stalls per mission http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

irR4tiOn4L
05-13-2005, 08:03 AM
oh for crying out loud stop being narcisstic - the AI pilots are cheated and its no good for immersion.

The AI flight models in pacific fighters are also a step backward to those in il-2 - watch them closely and youll realise they are given more capabilities and advantages than they were in il-2.

Ive seen an AI B24 collide with another B24, then for some reason go into fast rolls and keep up these rolls while following the squadron 500-600 m back - for miles and miles at equal altitude - wish i had a track of it.

Needless to say, im not impressed with the AI flight models.

fabianfred
05-13-2005, 08:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Echo50:
I'm assuming your using a joystick. From the main menu go to: Hardware Setup then choose Input. You should see a section labeled Joystick Axes. from the drop down menu you can change Pitch, Yaw and Roll. the left bar represents 10% stick movement, the far right 100% stick movement. Make sure its set low on the left. heres my setup.

Pitch 13 19 27 33 40 47 59 69 86 100
Roll 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
Yaw 12 17 25 32 39 47 55 67 84 100
though after a while this just becomes personal preference. Plus some joysticks act differently.

if its set too high on the left small stick movements can cause full elevator deflection, resulting in a spin. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if you keep the last figure no higher than 70 you'll hardly ever spin...

I always thought the AI have far more ammo than we do...?

irR4tiOn4L
05-13-2005, 08:09 AM
yes they do.

I find only human opponents - preferably lan - make for decent competition/wingmates in pacific fighters. In the il-2 demo, on the other hand, ive had lots of fun going up against the AI - its at the point where if i want a dogfight i load up the demo not Pacific Fighters - I am yet to find forgotten battles gold pack in Australia for under 60 AU.

Even in a Lan PF match however we have to avoid weaker planes like the zero or hurricane and planes armed too well, such as the Ki84 and spitfire. We just opt for the Ki43 most of the time.

WOLFMondo
05-13-2005, 08:14 AM
IF you keep the max stick setting at 70 you never have full authority of the controlshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Your stick setup makes a massive difference, I used to use a stick with a twist for rudder, i've got pedals now and the difference is massive (although the learning curve is tough), manouvers are allot easier to control precisly and it feels more like I imagine flying to be.

irR4tiOn4L
05-13-2005, 08:17 AM
sorry misunderstood the previous post http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
05-13-2005, 08:25 AM
A month ago I started experimenting with the joystick input controls. I made it into a curve that extends slowly and then sharply at the end. This gives me maximum control authroity at the very end of the stick throw but much smoother controls at the beginning and in between. I'm much better flying now because of that. I stall much less...

Doug_Thompson
05-13-2005, 09:08 AM
The advice about customizing the joystick controls is the best. That will do more good than anything.

However, unless I missed it, nobody mentioned an effective, more obvious measure -- using the turn and bank gauge.

In most of these gauges, there's a little metal ball that rolls out of the center if your plane is "skidding" or otherwise not flying efficiently. You don't have to watch it constantly. Just check it once in a while during really tight turns. If you're getting out of whack, apply just a little rudder.

The gauges are often hard to see, so turn on the cockpit lights. Default is Ctrl+L.

Another basic need is to adjust the trim of your aircraft while flying to the mission. I've never seen detailed instructions on how to do that on the web. I just learned by doing.

Finally, I'm assuming here that all people fly with a cockpit view. This is not necessarily the case, especially with newcomers.

No-cockpit view may seem easier and safer with all those arrows, but I for one can't fly well in some of the more "unstable" types without a cockpit view. I eventually found out that it's no good to know where your enemies are if you can't follow the arrows.

Doug_Thompson
05-13-2005, 09:16 AM
The biggest problem with AI pilots is that they can't shoot. Keep flying tight circles and you're safe.

Just to confirm that, I started a U.S. Marine Corps career, which started with the Wake Island mission. I set full autopilot, took an external view, hit time compression and watched the show. Sure enough, about a dozen Zeros were chasing me at the same time, all firing wildly, all with no leading on their shots. My "pilot" survived and his Wildcat was practically undamaged.

TAGERT.
05-13-2005, 09:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dieg777:
The aI have a simplified flight model compaired to player- As the versions have been updated and newer versions and patches released the flight models are tweaked, some prefer certain versions over others http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
The next patch to be released for PF or IL2fb+Aces+PF is promised to have improved flight models and to update AI so that they will fly the same as player- there will probably be a cost in increased system specs tho. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That does not compute.. Oleg has said on many ocations that the AI fly the SAME FM that the user does. I think your confusing the AI ONLY PLANES FM's with the USER FM's Oleg has admited the FM's for the AI only planes are not all that.. But he has said that when an AI is flying a plane the user can fly that the AI is flying the same FM and not a dumb down version. I dont have a link to where he said that, I just thought it was generally understood at this point. If Im wrong, please let me know, but that is the impression I have from hanging around these forums the past few years.