PDA

View Full Version : What I did on my summer vacation



Jumoschwanz
04-23-2005, 09:03 AM
First I woke up.

Then I went down to the corner to see what was going on...............S!

Jumoschwanz

Jumoschwanz
04-23-2005, 09:03 AM
First I woke up.

Then I went down to the corner to see what was going on...............S!

Jumoschwanz

Vipez-
04-23-2005, 10:05 AM
sounded like TV-commercial http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I don't suppose you are a salesman...

BBB_Hyperion
04-23-2005, 10:44 AM
Respect to the guy who found the truth about such servers .)

HayateAce
04-23-2005, 11:02 AM
Icons went out of style in 1980.



http://www.mv.com/ipusers/paquette/arcade/defender/defender_ss4.gif

FatBoyHK
04-23-2005, 11:08 AM
Flying low isn't aracde. TnB isn't aracde.

But

Flying without teamwork is aracde. Flying without caring about your virtual life is aracde.

and

Hartmann worked with wingman as a team and he did care about his wingman, he lost just one wingman throughout his entire career. And of course, he took good care about this life.

Finally

I am not making any judgment about any server.

BBB_Hyperion
04-23-2005, 12:02 PM
Hmm afaik Hartman never lost a Wingman . 1 was downed but not dead that was the bomberpilot retraining for fighters .)

Further the mentioned attack when irc they flew at 4k other way and then dived and sneaked up from behind most likely with enough speed to pull out and disappear in clouds before fighters could catch them. Further orders of Escort fighters were dont follow enemy planes too far and leave il2s unprotected . So not really a situation that is given on any server cause at some greater range clouds disappear and lods can be seen .

The lod of the 109 which is a remarkable small plane is cause it is one of the earlier variants extra big and easy to spot. While some other lods disappear at some angels what couldnt happen irl. So not realistic at all . Further Pilot cant move and dont looks with stereovision which along with refraction not modeled and pilot dont moves his head except shift f1 gives a very cramped cockpit view and less overall awareness compared to real thing. All engine controls are simpliefied , guns simpliefied , boost simpliefied , everytime a new plane is instantly available with same quality. Not to mention the dm which is the same on all difficult settings.

Further its a clear disadvantage for planes with engines that are optimised for medium or high alt to fly low. After a short while of shooting and turning most fights end on the deck while their wingmans maybe got shoot down and refly climb to alt and just appear as their former wingman died and dive in to get the enemy while other side wingman is back too and dives on this one. Even with deathkick the bahaviar is uniform cause people climb see tracers dive and end up on deck and get shoot after a while. Thats repeating over and over as the stream of pilots never stops these guys that hang out at 8 k and enjoy the view only but risk to get involved as soon as they get bored and sooner or later founds himself lower than another. Sometimes Squads appear and try to work in team sometimes works other times they end up in the same circle mentioned above.

So it is arcade cause the df mode results in that coops are better cause everyone starts at the same time.

Atomic_Marten
04-23-2005, 12:22 PM
So I suppose that you are E.Hartmann, Jumo? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif LMAO

About server it is nice, tho I didn't play much in there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

civildog
04-23-2005, 02:17 PM
I was on this server last night with some teammates. I don't like the DF Airquake servers very much, but I liked this one.

Some very interesting things happened that made it pretty realistic.

When my wingmman and and I first took off we headed to the target area in clipwing Spits and bounced what we thought was a German bomber because, while the shape looked odd, it had the right markings so we killed it. My wingie was rewarded with a "friendly" kill (he was the last one "in" on the bomber) because it was a nut who had marked his plane with Balkenkreuz on the wings. Pretty funny.

We then got into a parade type furball with a couple of G-6's as we dragged eachother's bad guy into a circle which allowed us to kill one and chase off the other. Very low altitude...enough we churned up snow a few times. All the while we could see our armor getting pounded by the 190's and smoking. Only thing missing was a soundtrack. Unfortunately the 190's spotted us and we were shot out of the sky and had to hit the silk.

After that we grabbed new planes. I took out a 47 with rockets and went looking for some panzers to blast. The ones I found turned out to be Shermans but fortunately I didn't hit any. I should have realised it wasn't my 50m high approach that was the reason why the tanks didn't shoot back at me. Oh well, that's why they have hatches on tanks.

We then both mixed it up with some nearby 109's and 190's. My wingman was low and bounced a 109 only to be picked up by the German's wingman. I shot the Hun up with my fifties and he flew into the trees. My wingman was picked up by another German and was vaporized without knowing what hit him. I was caught by a pair of 190's who gradually nicked my plane down to the seat, engine, and some control cables. With the wind plucking at what was left of my clothing I bailed.

Now, all that being said about it being realistic and fun, I still think some sort of limited icons for at least the opposite side is better. Chasing dots all over only to find they were just other good guys (who were also chasing dots all over looking for bad guys, etc.) gets a bit monotonous after a while. In real life when I am flying a plane I can recognise other planes much farther out than this game can support. Colors, shapes, lighting, all that sort thing are just still not done as well on a computer screen as in RL. Yet.

And to make it worse, a lot of people fly with incorrect markings or none at all. I spent about 10 minutes cahsing a clip wing Spit all over, and he was doing the same to me, because we couldn't tell what we were. I had British markins which he should have seen, but he had no markings at all and we were just scissoring away again and again until I got close enough to realise what his plane was.

In real life the two pilots would have been able to "see" better what each plane was, and be able to communicate better. In coops this is easier to do, even w/out icons, because everyone knows what the other side has, markings are used, and everyone (most importantly) is one a team. In a DF room not everyone has TS, too many types of planes are available, and certainly not everyone is flying as an integral team.

The example at the beginning of the thread could have worked out badly for Hartmann if the Russians had flown more cohesively...which is something you will rarely if ever see on a DF server. We had Mitchell after Mitchell taking off and flying alone and unescorted with no coordination. The fighters would ignore the Mitchells instead of escorting them, and go off on their own, too.

I think a solution might be to have limited icons (at least a plane type) or at least require correct markings somehow. And perhaps if more people flying on the server regularly took the initiative to try to work out coordinated strikes and escorts. Of course that probably won't work yet, but over time the regulars might make it so.

That's my 50 cents.

RedDeth
04-23-2005, 03:21 PM
jumoschanz sorry to sound attacking towards you but ive read several books on eastern front and ive never read about 109s flying around on the deck looking for fighters and IL2s.

thats suicide and if erich hartmann did that he wouldnt be alive today. so i guess im saying your making up stories to make your favorite server look correct?

Atomic_Marten
04-23-2005, 03:28 PM
In fact nor did the Russian fighter pilots were (according to some sources), flying on low altitudes.. that mainly depended on mission type. Occasionally there were conducted low alt flights but these were under certain conditions.(bomber interceptons, recon etc.). VVS pilots also had the strict order not to fly low over enemy teritory where was possibilty to encounter enemy flak.(or any kind of AA firehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

What RedDeth posted directly above my post is true.

p1ngu666
04-23-2005, 04:00 PM
yeah i like the mission setup, ground pounding for both sides, which is what i enjoy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

also beufighters have max speed at 400metres height or so, they are LOW altitude version, im not gonna climb to 3k in a bue to then dive and rocket stuff, pointless http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

beu also suits me cos my my **** SA, in beu u cant see sh1t anyways http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Jumoschwanz
04-23-2005, 08:50 PM
: )

Blackdog5555
04-23-2005, 11:21 PM
Here is some quotes of E. Hartmann website
Quote:


"Soon enough, many large Il-2's came into view. With its armor and rear gunner, the Sturmovik was a tough target. With the Sturmoviks closing head-on, Hartmann unhesitatingly ordered an attack. He dived down below them, picking up airspeed, then banked around and came up behind and beneath them, aiming for his target's vulnerable ventral oil radiator. The Il-2's flew straight on.
By 5:50, he was back in the air, leading a flight of 109s on a frei chase, and he soon found more Il-2s, escorted by fighters. The Messerchmitts attacked successfully, with Hartmann downing another Il-2 and an LaGG-3 fighter. Within an hour, he was back on the ground, with four victories for the day.

Late that afternoon, he led the Staffel up again, to the northeast. They found a group of Soviet LaGG-3 fighters, which they engaged in a sprawling dogfight. It was over quickly and Hartmann had shot down three enemy fighters, making it seven for the day, his largest score so far.'

Unquote:

Looks like he went after low flying Sturmys with Lagg3 escorts...Fantastic ace but shot down alot of obsolete sky junk. Very interesting tactic to fly under a low flying Sturmy/ turn and go for its oil tank. I thought he did alot of B/Z...?

But ya, I dont like the "no icons" IMO...who cares. but I get bored looking for enemy dots on a computer screen. Either you get shot by a friendly or you shoot at a friendly. No Schwarm/ Squad. no radio and very no one/few flys team tactics. Coops with friends on comms is the best way to go.

Blackdog5555
04-23-2005, 11:54 PM
Here is Mr. Hartmann talking about dogfighting!

Quote:

"I never cared much for the dogfight. I would never dogfight with the Russians. Surprise was my tactic. Get the highest altitude and, if possible, come out of the sun...ninety percent of my attacks were surprise attacks. If I had one success, I took a coffee break and watched the area again.

Finding [the enemy] depended purely on being where the action was concentrated on the ground and on visual look-out. Ground stations called us by radio the position of the enemy after a coordinated system on our maps. So we could search in the right direction and choose our best attack altitude. If I covered the sky, I preferred a full-power, sun attack from below, because you could spot the enemy very far away against a white cloudy sky. The pilot who sees the other pilot first already has half the victory.

The second step of my tactic was the point of decision. That is, you see the enemy and decide whether to attack immediately, or wait for a better situation. or maneuver to make it more favorable, or not to attack at all. For example, if you have to attack the enemy against the sun, if you don't have enough altitude, if the enemy is flying in broken clouds, you keep your enemy in sight far enough so you can change your attack position in the sun or above the clouds, diving to sell your altitude for high speed. Then attack. It doesn't matter if you pick on the straggler or the guy out of formation. The most important thing is to destroy an enemy aircraft. Maneuver quickly and aggressively and shoot in close, as near as possible to ensure the hit and save rounds. I told my men, 'Only if the windshield is filled up, then pull the trigger.'

Finally break or reverse. If you hit and run, think about survival. Immediately check six and reverse. Clear the area for potential attackers or pick a new point of re-entry and do it again, if you have the advantage."

end quote.....

He liked to get within 50 meters before firing...90% surprise attacks.

Cdn401HARRIER
04-24-2005, 12:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:


thats suicide and if erich hartmann did that he wouldnt be alive today. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hartmann has been dead for years. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

FatBoyHK
04-24-2005, 01:35 AM
Well Jumo, before making this thread into a flame war, consider these...

1. if you think a 10 vs 10 low-level tnb like what you see in Sv1 is an accurate representation of the airwar in WWII, you are terribly wrong.

2. And it is even more silly to quote something from the "real" eastern front and apply them on the "virtual" western front. Different planes, you know.

3. If there are really half of planes on the deck that are doing ground pounding, you may have a point. But indeed, it is not, it is not even close to it. As a DK server, it is not a bad thing by itself at all. But if you think air war has to be fought in this way and only this way, I really can't help you don't to leave you alone.

4. With or without icon, it is just personal taste. Don't try to label anyone who don't like your favorite setting as a noob or something. I am equally successful on Sv1 as I am on other server I fly on. However, I don't really like the no-icon setting. Not because it is more difficult, it is because I don't think one after other furballs on the deck is my cup of tea.

RedDeth
04-24-2005, 01:56 AM
trust me jumo i have the blond knight of germany. and ive also read many other accounts of hartmann

these are your exact comments jumo. leading a reader to believe that hartmann actually mounted blades on the front of his plane and doubled it as a lawnmower... and i quote from jumoschwanz

"Erich flew his 109 around the battlefield at ground level shooting down the Il2 craft, and he would shoot down any fighters that gave him trouble also.

And of course also we know that early in the war most of the Russian air force was destroyed on the ground, they had such great production it was shortly re-built and supplied, but the point being that low-level fighting was the norm on the Eastern Front, and anywhere else there was ground attack or rhubarbs flown by allied and axis. Yes the Germans did fly to England on the deck all the time under Radar, hit targets of opportunity on the ground and air then fled just as low."

in jumoschwanz estimation it seems hes trying to imply that proper and correct dogfighting occurs on the deck and was historically correct.

but as we all know from our books most dogfights over england started at 30,000 feet altitude. or as close to that as they could get.

jumo seems delusional as to erich hartmanns preferred attack methods.

Jumoschwanz
04-24-2005, 07:35 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
04-24-2005, 08:30 AM
whats wrong with low alt fighting anyways?

jurinko
04-24-2005, 11:30 AM
this server has turned into arcadish turnfight imho.. rarely there is any red plane like p47/51 and above 3km, 100% spits in 1km. old warclouds was much better, the atmosphere was threatening. now bunches of noobs and team killers.

FatBoyHK
04-24-2005, 12:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
The whole thread would be positive but for the efforts of poor Redeth and Fatboy. Instead of looking for positive threads to hijack, why don't you two go start a thread about something you enjoy or are passionate about? Is there anything like that in your lives? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you don't like comment, don't post on this forum, write in your dairy instead. And about hijack, what hijack ?! You talked about Hartmann and Sv1 server, so did Reddeth and I.

I have no problem about people enjoying Sv1. I enjoy it as much as everyone does. Yes I think the majority of fights there are acardish, but so what? I still enjoy it. However, if you think these furballs are "textbook" examples, that everyone should learn and use before anything else, and you make it even further by trying to endorse them by quoting Hartmann's word, you are bonded to received comments.

p1ngu666
04-24-2005, 02:48 PM
well

the fights are lowish alt mostly because we are lazy, and theres ground targets too.

turnfights happen for 2 reasons in Spit vs 109 particular to that server, 1 the no icons means u haveto ID the target, ive seen swhirling dots, i join in and its all spits trying to ID each other.

2 is the 109 and spit are close in all performance areas, so u dont need to bnz, like say u in a 190 vs a yak3, because u can hang with most things the other guy can.

if u want high alt fights, coops with a bomber escort mission for example, or make DF maps with the hilly onwhine map. u can possibly put test runways ontop of the hills, too boost the height even more

Blackdog5555
04-24-2005, 03:53 PM
Yes, its only a game..

BTW: Hartmann Shot up Stumys and LaGGs, mostly. Hartmann would not be too authoritataive on the the Spit v. 109 scenario. For fun I do the QMB with 4 109G6 v. 4 Sturmys + 4 LaGGs. Get close , 100 meters and fire. It is like shooting chickens with a shotgun. easy killing. try it with the 108 cannon. its really fun. you almost get a feeling how its possible to rack up such a huge kill record. I dont how/why the Allies turned poor Hartmann over to the Ruskies for a stint in the gulags.

karost
04-24-2005, 04:02 PM
Hi,Jumoschwanz http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

as you know that when you look on HL server for full switch or (no icon) setup how many friend play ? .... less then 5-15% right ?

so why our friends about 80% like to play custom setup ? why he not play in full switch ? ..... well there have so many reason ...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and mostly I respect their reasons.


last year I tried to trained my friends to play in full switch but he not happy so I let him play at custom DFServer and he like it alot so ... that time I learned ... playing HL like we open a T.V. there have many channel to let a people choice it.


anywhere I happy that the number of people who like to play on full ( history ) switch setup (like Spits_vs_109) have more and more members and our new members still have many new thing to learn like friends fire http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif , classic surprise attack , 1 vs many ( hit & run ), hide and bomb , trap - counter trap , cunning traps ... and many of many classical tactic with can apply in full switch and soon when we have 4.0 ... well that will bring full switch has more and more dimension of fun to play ... ( like a good old days in IL2-origianl classic) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


so... Jumoschwanz pls open our big mind ... and times will let our new friends see what we saw.... and this community will have alot of smile http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


regards,

WTE_Ibis
04-24-2005, 06:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by karost:
Hi,Jumoschwanz http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

as you know that when you look on HL server for full switch or (no icon) setup how many friend play ? .... less then 5-15% right ?

so why our friends about 80% like to play custom setup ? why he not play in full switch ? ..... well there have so many reason ...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and mostly I respect their reasons.


last year I tried to trained my friends to play in full switch but he not happy so I let him play at custom DFServer and he like it alot so ... that time I learned ... playing HL like we open a T.V. there have many channel to let a people choice it.


anywhere I happy that the number of people who like to play on full ( history ) switch setup (like Spits_vs_109) have more and more members and our new members still have many new thing to learn like friends fire http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif , classic surprise attack , 1 vs many ( hit & run ), hide and bomb , trap - counter trap , cunning traps ... and many of many classical tactic with can apply in full switch and soon when we have 4.0 ... well that will bring full switch has more and more dimension of fun to play ... ( like a good old days in IL2-origianl classic) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


so... Jumoschwanz pls open our big mind ... and times will let our new friends see what we saw.... and this community will have alot of smile http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


regards, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

------------------------------------------

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

mjr_health
04-24-2005, 07:22 PM
Well i like for real. Would even be nice to not have map icon so you need to navigate by sight. As for those fools who wear the incorrect markings, if they get friendy fire whose fault is it. we all know that there were and still are ( even with all this supposedly woderful technology ) people still die from friendly fire. I admit that I get shot down heaps but that is part of the fun. If you dont like getting shot down then turn your pc off go to bed close your eyes and dream of beint the best in the world.

RedDeth
04-24-2005, 07:43 PM
jumo i am was not attacking you or your server. i was making comments on the historical accuraccy of your statements regarding hartmann. which flew in the face of every book ive read on the subject.

after which you personally attacked me multiple times in your reply. in a mean spirited manner.

you yourself turned your thread bad. none other.

Te_Vigo
04-24-2005, 09:04 PM
Ok, here's what we do...
All those who think full switch is best, to the detriment of all others...stand on one side.
All those who think open cockpit, externals, padlock, icons are the way to go to the detriment of everybody else, stand on the other side.
Now...both stand toe to toe, facing each other.
One side then slaps the other side. The slap is returned and this is then reiterated until all members are red cheeked and only one team member is left standing, or the realisation that this is a really silly thing to do dawns on them.

Those who don't particularly care about what settings are what and choose to fly any settings, get to stand on the sidelines and drink beer, laugh at the two sides carry on and toss in the odd peanut or two.

kameron1974
04-24-2005, 11:53 PM
Flying low rules!
Adrenaline. Of course you attack an Il2 from the bottom so that annoying rear gunnar doesn't get a shot.

CAPT_COTTON
04-25-2005, 12:36 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

I came in this post to see if Erich Hartmann was flying on HL and what his screen name is .and to my horror i find out he is dead and it is a post about how said dead pilot flew in real life and then its about high flyers [no not dope heads]and low flyers[no not fast cars]
it is the old ZD against the TB [no those are not sickness].And i like icons cause my eyes are getting bad and it makes it easer to see the name of the ZD who just went into the ground
and sometimes i find i am going to shoot the same TB ahead of me again so i fly away and leave him alone[i should not lie so much]

Come on who cares how you fly and what type of plane you like and the kind of game and if the FM is right and remember if they make a game that is just like the real thing we wont be in this forum talking, we will be dead!

ITS A GAME and I LOVE FLYING http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

civildog
04-25-2005, 12:54 AM
I second CAPT_COTTON's opinion: I'll play the game any way I like to. It's the whining by people who cry that others won't play the way they want to that ruins the game for all. I know the only reason some whine that way is that unless everyone else plays the way the whiners want them to the whiners can't win their points.

Yet another reason why most of the DF servers are but the playground of mostly children, figuratively and literally. Schoolyard name calling and finder pointing seem to dominate there.

It's only a game people, you act as though it's a measure of your manhood to be questioned on how it should be played. Pretty pathetic. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

FatBoyHK
04-25-2005, 02:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CivilDog:
It's only a game people, you act as though it's a measure of your manhood to be questioned on how it should be played. Pretty pathetic. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif