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Tundra 793
09-09-2018, 01:26 AM
Saw this earlier, randomly checking the For Honor Reddit, and didn't see anyone post it here, so thought I'd pass it along; https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/9dnppk/a_note_from_pope/?sort=new


Hi all,

For those who are new here and don't know me, I'm the Senior Community Developer on For Honor, host of the weekly Warrior's Den stream, and frequent commenter here on the sub. I wanted to post something because I feel things have gotten out of hand, and frankly really toxic, these last couple days. NOTE: I am not a moderator of this subreddit, so I'm not dictating how you can or should use this sub to express your opinions. But I do care deeply about this community and wanted to speak up on this.

Before reading on, I'd urge you to actually watch the segment we did with Roman on today's Warrior's Den. I've highlighted it here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/306757713

Regarding the Responsive Dialog System (RDS), we have of course heard you. We have heard from a number of you on this subreddit, that you're not super stoked. I think it's a fair summation to say it's not the system so much that you're reacting to, but specifically the new VO that's in game for all the old characters, in many cases replacing an iconic voice you've come to know and love over the past year and a half. (Please challenge this if that's not the proper reading of the room here.)

We firmly believe in the promise of the RDS and how it will improve the For Honor gameplay experience for our players. This new system, though, necessitates the recording of new VO for all of our characters. It simply wouldn't be possible with the bank of original VO we recorded for the game's release. In game production we always have to work within certain hard constraints, and in this case getting the original 2016-era roster of actors for all the voices again wasn't possible for us.

As we said on the show, we are open to hearing constructive feedback when you find lines that just don't work for a certain Hero, or any bugs or situations where the system isn't working properly. So please continue to share that.

One reason I wanted to write this post though, is to respectfully appeal to you not allow this topic to drown out the very much needed feedback our team is expecting from the Open Test, specifically on Perks, Breach, and Hero Balance. Feedback on those things is crucial to us, and I'm worried too many folks are getting distracted piling on to this topic.

One last thing, speaking of piling on. I would also like to say that the numerous threads and posts targeting Roman are just too much. I know that he knew by going on the show today he'd be taking a lot of hate from people, and I deeply respect him for taking on that role. It's a hard message to deliver when you are telling someone that you aren't going to get the thing you want. But he's not a king, guys. He's the head of the project, and he comes on the Warrior's Den to represent the team. And in this case he was representing and incredibly talented, hardworking team of devs who put a lot of themselves into this new system, and who spent multiple days reading hateful things about them and their work. Personal attacks on Roman, and on anyone else on the dev team, are unwarranted and I ask that they stop, please.

As the players who have been with us since launch know, we've maintained an incredibly close relationship with our community, and the people of this subreddit specifically. That relationship has been an important element of how we've made For Honor the success it has become, and we have no plans on changing that. Of course we are not always going to agree on a given topic, and we can't always make the changes you want us to, but I do believe we can maintain our mutual respect, as it leads to great things for the game we all love. Thanks for reading.

DefiledDragon
09-09-2018, 01:31 AM
I'm always bamboozled by the fact that devs are active on subreddits but not their own forums. Frontier Developments do this too.

He makes a fair point but you know what? If you can't get the original cast right now, wait until you can before you release the new responsive dialog system.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-09-2018, 01:46 AM
I don't understand why so many people actually care so much.... Too much about the voices. I mean really. I hardly notice them when I'm playing. So stupid. There was a YouTube channel that said they got threats. Really keyboard warriors? Over voices? GAL.

Tundra 793
09-09-2018, 01:56 AM
I'm always bamboozled by the fact that devs are active on subreddits but not their own forums. Frontier Developments do this too.


It makes me sad for the forum users here, like Candle, who's spent the better part of a year and a half making incredibly detailed recaps of the Warrior's Den, on top of his already well thought out posts here, and people like Archo who spent weeks compiling For Honor's lore into 1 thread, that Pope still considers Reddit "first among equals".
Of course I respect and adore our community team here, Jurassic, Fred, Insulin and all the others, they're fun, polite, work hard and with us, but to hear the guy who's the face of the Community team, on the Warrior's Den each week, openly favor the Reddit community, kinda stings.

DefiledDragon
09-09-2018, 02:06 AM
I don't understand why so many people actually care so much.... Too much about the voices. I mean really. I hardly notice them when I'm playing. So stupid. There was a YouTube channel that said they got threats. Really keyboard warriors? Over voices? GAL.

Depends who you main I guess. Misalu! Incredibilis! Dun Ma Glass! Ad Mortem Inimicus! etc... The classic sounds of battle. Can you imagine if they did another Arkham game and Joker was back (somehow) and the voice over artist wasn't Mark Hamill? I can't.

Tundra 793
09-09-2018, 03:04 AM
I don't understand why so many people actually care so much.... Too much about the voices. I mean really. I hardly notice them when I'm playing. So stupid. There was a YouTube channel that said they got threats. Really keyboard warriors? Over voices? GAL.

Well, you know, 'tis the Internet. I'm sure there's been many a mortal battles waged over Big Mac Vs. Whopper, but you're right; Nothing ever justifies death threats. Except of course Big Mac fans. It's Whopper or death mother****ers!

Seriously though you're right, largely. I mained Berserker for... Holy crap I cannot remember my Zerker Rep. 20 something I think. But I couldn't pick his voice lines out of a lineup.
I then mained Highlander though, and in stark contrast, his "Dunmaglass!" is much more iconic, and replacing it would absolutely be a terrible shame.

The players who love the old voices have a point, but not one worth death threats. That's reserved for junk food battles.

EvoX.
09-09-2018, 10:37 AM
I don't understand why so many people actually care so much.... Too much about the voices. I mean really. I hardly notice them when I'm playing. So stupid. There was a YouTube channel that said they got threats. Really keyboard warriors? Over voices? GAL.

''I mean really, I hardly notice them while playing, so everyone else should also ignore them like me and not have a personal preference.''

Death threats from the usual wackos aside, you not understanding why people care doesn't really mean anything... to anyone besides you, especially when the thing in question is replaced by far inferior work. Some of the new voices are borderline comical, and not in the good way.

Kryltic
09-09-2018, 06:22 PM
It's pretty simple really. If you can't get all the original voice actors back at all, then don't bother adding all these crappy new lines. No one asked for the change so why waste the time and annoy your players?

Use those resources to actually do what players want, like balance characters, balance feats and create new maps.

Edit: The fact that reddit is still the main place for official For Honor news, over your own forum, is absolutely stupid.

NHLGoldenKnight
09-09-2018, 07:13 PM
They are still stealing our steel but dare to complain about anything? For people who earn quite a bit of money by doing the job they love, they can be quite spoiled and arrogant.

When I just moved in US, I had to sell cars to survive. Did I get death threats? Sure, once a week. But I didn't chicken out and cry to community lol, instead I got myself Ruger SP101 in 357 Magnum, for close and personal. Man up, beta type male developers and do your job by taking feedback from the community. New voices are more of Monty Python show than what they should be. Triple A studio can't resolve connectivity issues for year and a half now and now they can't even do half decent voice cover? Not to mention how minions still sound like demons, without anyone doing anything about it.

So man up, and earn your paycheck hard way, like we all do. If you were at my company and department I work for, you all would be fired a year ago.

Knight_Raime
09-09-2018, 07:56 PM
Roman imho has always gotten more flak than he ever deserves. I truly hope he sticks around and continues to enjoy the game he's working on. I really do like him.

That aside i'm not against the concept of what they're doing. I can't speak for others. But my personal issue is the...weight? of the voices. They sound very flat. No base to them or anything. I think this might be because everyone has helmets on and the devs decided to give that kind of sound effect of speaking through the helmet. But imo that very effect is what's making these lines, to me, sound very flat and cheesy.

The actual voice acting for the most part seems fine. The Actors/actresses seem very enthusiastic with their lines and it shows.

UbiInsulin
09-09-2018, 11:08 PM
Thanks for cross-posting this, Tundra.

I want to note that we (the mods here) will treat personal attacks on specific devs the same way we would treat flaming between users.

Soldier_of_Dawn
09-10-2018, 07:08 AM
Can we have both VO's as customisation options for our characters?

Here are some quotes from various users from the Reddit thread that I agree with:


How about a compromise? Give a toggle in the options menu to keep old ones if we want, or use the new ones if we like them better. The voice files already exist, so why not just integrate them in this new build?


I made a few proposals in my post that I will copy/paste here. The idea of these proposals are to make EVERYONE HAPPY. Whether you prefer the old voices or the new ones:

1.) Put an option in the audio options to have "Pre-Marching Fire voice lines". This way the game and voice lines would remain exactly the same POST Marching Fire, as they did Pre-Marching Fire. Also, as for the people that don't want the Pre-Marching Fire, then just simply don't select that option and the lines will be the newly recorded ones.

2.) Make an option similar to Street Fighter V. In SFV you can select for each individual character, if you want the Japanese VA, or the English VA. Now back to For Honor. Say someone likes the new way Orochi sounds but they hate the way Gladiator sounds. With an option similar to this they could go to Gladiator and select "Use Pre-Marching Fire VA", and vice versa with Orochi.

Sure, with these proposals you wouldn't get the added "benefit" of hearing the grunts and new feat lines and character interactions and whatnot, since the old actors obviously couldn't record them. But to me, hearing that new stuff doesn't matter, especially when you take all of the annoying issues that I explain more thoroughly below. (This would continue into my post, if you care to read it I linked it above.)


Suggestion: I know the toggle idea has been ignored, but you could add a category in the customization menu called "Voice" that starts with these two options. Then, you can make more and make different voices if you want by hiring new VOs. It's just that even though the banter aspect is cool, not all people are fine with losing the original personalities of the characters and the crisp quality of the recordings for the banter system. Most of us think it isn't worth it.


So please, PLEASE hear the community!

Honestly I would just love if you'd change your mind just like you did with the "deleting the cosmetics" thing. BUT I'm totally ok with the option to have the old voiceover, but don't have the additional talk and other perks of the RDS and I am sure a lot of people too, so I think it is a MUST to have such an option in the game if there's no way you guys giving up on RDS due to all the work that was put into it or whatever reason is behind it.


If you're going to put in the RDS, at least us have an option in-game to disable it.



I love the all the characters as it. Banter sounds as is silly, you can tell the VC is different, they all try to speak in this weird hybridized old english rather in their native lines. I notice also with some executions, for example Centurion's ' Ala Iacta Est" where he used to say "Movete" how makes some giggle or laugh, with the reverb I can't make it out but it really did feel as if he's not as egotistical as he used to be :/ Which is something I greatly enjoy him being in base game because it was promoted in his trailer.


Mr Pope, This could all be fixed, make the RDS system toggable, If you want the old VA, then you turn off the RDF. If you like the new one you can keep it on. Then everyone is happy. And on roman, Please just talk to him about his I know best tone, the community are not idiots, we play this game we know what we are talking about usually.


Honestly man, if I could toggle whether or not your character uses the old lines and doesn't take part in the RDS, or uses the new lines and does take part in the RDS, that'd be great.


Give us an old/new option for voice customization in the hero menu, so we can all be happy.


I have a proposal. Why don't we implement a toggle for the original VO's in the options, and the new VO's as the default setting in those options. That way new coming players can fall in love with the more involved and updated dialogue (They won't recognize the difference in quality as much), and those who are used to the original voices can still enjoy the classic lines from their favorite characters.

ChampionRuby50g
09-10-2018, 07:21 AM
#dontfixwhatisntbroken

Roman doesnít deserve death threats, nor do any of the members working on the development team. Just as we donít deserve to be told we need to learn how to play our hero, and basically get dealt a big FU when we ask about LBs rework. We donít deserve that, after all we know our mains the best and when you got 55+ reps on them, I think you would know how to play the hero. I donít hate Roman, but when he speaks about us that disrespectfully, I find it hard to like him.

The new system, in theory, is great. I genuinely like the idea. The way itís implemented however, leaves a lot to be desired. The voice acting is sub-par (yes I understand they canít get the OG actors back), but at least make it as similar as possible so it is a smooth process. Thatís currently not the case at all. Not gonna go deeper into it as everything that needs to be said has already been said, but Ubisoft seriously need to consider taking on some of the solutions the community has offered such as a toggle for the voices.

David_gorda
09-10-2018, 08:03 AM
#dontfixwhatisntbroken

Roman doesnít deserve death threats, nor do any of the members working on the development team. Just as we donít deserve to be told we need to learn how to play our hero, and basically get dealt a big FU when we ask about LBs rework. We donít deserve that, after all we know our mains the best and when you got 55+ reps on them, I think you would know how to play the hero. I donít hate Roman, but when he speaks about us that disrespectfully, I find it hard to like him.

The new system, in theory, is great. I genuinely like the idea. The way itís implemented however, leaves a lot to be desired. The voice acting is sub-par (yes I understand they canít get the OG actors back), but at least make it as similar as possible so it is a smooth process. Thatís currently not the case at all. Not gonna go deeper into it as everything that needs to be said has already been said, but Ubisoft seriously need to consider taking on some of the solutions the community has offered such as a toggle for the voices. Exactly spot on.

Capoupacap
09-10-2018, 09:32 AM
I do think Romand and it’s team have made lot of progress in balancing heroes.

Lot’s of frustration come from dev choice that have deep impact on the game and creating understandable frustration among the players (first is console/Pc difference, second is fuel/dominion balance, third is network issues).

Now you add another frustration, the one to have completely change VO of actor, some spirit in them with the removal of specific language......without having considering asking the community about it.....Well, I think part of the complain are totally true and logic....

I do think even communication through the process of balancing has been taking to a next level, I could be even beter ;)

I know a strict and more precise roadmap put pressure on the dev team and can open lot’s of bad reaction from the community but on the other hand it could show work evolution.

For the moment, lot’s of old character are waiting for their glory to come back and we don’t even know with the upcoming DLC if the work is going to be done in an upcoming futur. Just being imprťcise and the famous ę we are looking on it Ľ is simply not enough.

Consider some major balancing like conqueror and valkyries has take much much too long period to be done, without good enough communication.

But for the development of this game, and the progress that have been made, we are grateful ;)

PS: les champignons de Paris c’etait peut Ítre un rien too much ��

chukblok
09-10-2018, 03:20 PM
#dontfixwhatisntbroken

Roman doesnít deserve death threats, nor do any of the members working on the development team. Just as we donít deserve to be told we need to learn how to play our hero, and basically get dealt a big FU when we ask about LBs rework. We donít deserve that, after all we know our mains the best and when you got 55+ reps on them, I think you would know how to play the hero. I donít hate Roman, but when he speaks about us that disrespectfully, I find it hard to like him.

The new system, in theory, is great. I genuinely like the idea. The way itís implemented however, leaves a lot to be desired. The voice acting is sub-par (yes I understand they canít get the OG actors back), but at least make it as similar as possible so it is a smooth process. Thatís currently not the case at all. Not gonna go deeper into it as everything that needs to be said has already been said, but Ubisoft seriously need to consider taking on some of the solutions the community has offered such as a toggle for the voices.

Agree.

Anyone that feels the need to utter threats over a game has bigger life issues and should probably check into a mental health centre.

The banter system is a good idea. we all dont know the exact reasons why they changed actors. the half truth is in there somewhere.

Toggle option for sure. if possible.
Or diff voice options we can purchase with steel.

OoKaMi_79
09-10-2018, 04:30 PM
I totally agree that hate is not a good feedback, we can share our suggestions in a proper and polite way....in that way is healthier for the community and deliver a better message.

In my opinion after seeing some videos of Marching Fire (I’m on PS4 so I can’t play yet) the issue comes of course of not hearing the same voices that we are already used to but also from the kind of comic pronunciation of English. I don’t know why you decided to put a Japanese person trying to pronounce English lines. If we get technical I can see why you want to keep some sort of accuracy but being honest that doesn’t sounds good, it would be 10 times better if you use English people to do all the lines in perfec English considering that Japanese words are only few during the battle.

Dry.Fish
09-10-2018, 05:07 PM
Didn't they have a much simpler version of banter during the Test Your Metal event? Everyone seemed to like that event. Probably because they were the original VA's taken from Story Mode.

Devils-_-legacy
09-10-2018, 05:35 PM
The only thing that pissed me off was Pope saying the orignal va cast that they were unavailable and cents va said that he was never asked and highlander's and glad's current VA's are voicing commanders in breach so we're they unavailable or did they try something new?

Justicator
09-10-2018, 05:46 PM
The only thing that pissed me off was Pope saying the orignal va cast that they were unavailable and cents va said that he was never asked and highlander's and glad's current VA's are voicing commanders in breach so we're they unavailable or did they try something new?

It is a lie that most of the original VA were unavailable, they are just a part of the Voice Actor's Guild, essentially a union, and the new VA's are not. UBI wanted to pay as little as they can for the new voices, not caring that it would F U C K over some of the heroes. While i agree that death threats are not the answer, the devs are liars/incompetent and, at this point, do not deserve any goodwill, least of all, any of your money.


https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/9eju4r/important_developments_on_the_voice_debacle/

https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/9edcbc/re_popes_note_damage_control_and_reading_around_it/?utm_source=reddit-android

DefiledDragon
09-10-2018, 05:52 PM
It is a lie that most of the original VA were unavailable, they are just a part of the Voice Actor's Guild, essentially a union, and the new VA's are not. UBI wanted to pay as little as they can for the new voices, not caring that it would F U C K over some of the heroes. While i agree that death threats are not the answer, the devs are liars/incompetent and, at this point, do not deserve any goodwill, least of all, any of your money.


https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/9eju4r/important_developments_on_the_voice_debacle/

https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/9edcbc/re_popes_note_damage_control_and_reading_around_it/?utm_source=reddit-android

It's not the developers. It's either the publishers or the designers or somebody else in the chain. The developers are people who sit in cubicles writing code to meet requirements set out by the designers. I know this is a nit pick, but I'm a software developer and you wouldn't believe the **** I've had to listen to from users because the people designing the applications make bad decisions that have nothing to do with me and no doubt Ubisoft's developers are in the same boat. Unless Roman is a developer, then fair enough. He's certainly arrogant enough to be one, I will say that.

Devils-_-legacy
09-10-2018, 06:04 PM
It is a lie that most of the original VA were unavailable, they are just a part of the Voice Actor's Guild, essentially a union, and the new VA's are not. UBI wanted to pay as little as they can for the new voices, not caring that it would F U C K over some of the heroes. While i agree that death threats are not the answer, the devs are liars/incompetent and, at this point, do not deserve any goodwill, least of all, any of your money.


https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/9eju4r/important_developments_on_the_voice_debacle/

https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/9edcbc/re_popes_note_damage_control_and_reading_around_it/?utm_source=reddit-android

Don't get me wrong I agree with the point your trying to make but I don't think it's about money I'd agree there incompetent telling a community that VA's are unavailable and not to even ask the cents VAs is a joke and then to put highlander's and glad's VAs on breach commanders is a ****ty move on ubisoft part seeing as they were "unavailable"
P.sThe new va are part of a uninon There are members of ACTRA(Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio Artists)

Devils-_-legacy
09-10-2018, 06:08 PM
It's not the developers. It's either the publishers or the designers or somebody else in the chain. The developers are people who sit in cubicles writing code to meet requirements set out by the designers. I know this is a nit pick, but I'm a software developer and you wouldn't believe the **** I've had to listen to from users because the people designing the applications make bad decisions that have nothing to do with me and no doubt Ubisoft's developers are in the same boat. Unless Roman is a developer, then fair enough. He's certainly arrogant enough to be one, I will say that.

Unless I'm wrong he's the Creative director soo......

DefiledDragon
09-10-2018, 06:16 PM
Unless I'm wrong he's the Creative director soo......

So he's not a developer then. Well then he likely is at least partly responsible for the VO work.

Devils-_-legacy
09-10-2018, 06:23 PM
Not really he would of signed off that they were okay
The responsibilities of a creative director include leading the communication design, interactive design, and concept forward in any work assigned The creative director is known to guide a team of employees with skills and experience related to graphic design, fine arts, motion graphics, and other creative industry fields. I think this would include the voices I may be wrong tho

Lord_Cherubi
09-10-2018, 11:03 PM
I hope the dev team doesn't share this "is it really that much of a deal" mentality with some of these posters. Release the new voices as they are and we'll find out pretty ****ing soon, people are already FURIOUS about something that shouldn't even be a concern right now. Personally i won't be playing Warden ever again if his voice gets passed, that's a promise.(apologies to the actor but you need to step up your game big time).

Just give us a toggle option, that way we would have nothing to complain about and the people who enjoy the new voice lines are free to do so.

Elhantas
09-11-2018, 12:04 AM
Well, i for one will completely stop playing all together if these voice lines will be released. This is going to be one historic way how to ruin a game completely, without even touching how the game works. Realy, if this goes live, we will see youtube videos 1-2 years later called 'Top 10 video games ruined by budget-cuts' and For Honor being among the ten.

Tho i agree that death threats are overkill and is most likely done by keyboard warriors only. You cant deny that people are trying their damned fullest at fighting this change at all costs. As i mentioned in my previous post. Just how strong of a backlash does it need to happen, so that people would have their victory.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-11-2018, 03:35 AM
This reminds me of how mad people got that women were added to battlefield...shameful really. You didn't see people busting a nut over the changes they have made to the hulk in every movie right? Just get over it. Its cosmetic.

Specialkha
09-11-2018, 07:06 AM
This reminds me of how mad people got that women were added to battlefield...shameful really. You didn't see people busting a nut over the changes they have made to the hulk in every movie right? Just get over it. Its cosmetic.

Cosmetics matter in this game. A lot of ppl is playing that game because of the aesthetic of it.

On a side note, BF5 is not about WW2 with all the **** they put in it.

ChampionRuby50g
09-11-2018, 09:16 AM
This reminds me of how mad people got that women were added to battlefield...shameful really. You didn't see people busting a nut over the changes they have made to the hulk in every movie right? Just get over it. Its cosmetic.

Not really. Women did fight in WW2, but front line soldiers? No. Did they have bionic robot arms? No. People wanted a realistic WW2 game. BF5s first trailer was the polar opposite. Itís not about hating women, itís about hating that political correctness. My great-grandfather fought in WW2, and heíd be rolling in his grave at EAs portrayal of it. Are you saying he is shameful?

People didnít ďbust a nutĒ about hulk because you could still identity him as the hulk. You can no longer identify Warden as Warden, x10 for the rest of the heroes. People care about cosmetics, just as they care about how they look in real life. So no, people wonít get over it and they have every reason to not get over it

Elhantas
09-11-2018, 12:00 PM
And speaking of realism, if the designers thought it would sound authentic to make voice lines from inside a helmet, limiting voice actors what they can do is generaly a bad call. I understand the reasoning, but: 1) it did not bother anyone before 2)Rarely you will see it done in any other game, because it makes for poor sound quality and over all quality suffers.

It simply shows me that someone or someones in the development are simply rookies.

Sweaty_Sock
09-11-2018, 02:00 PM
Said it on another thread but worth repeating, this is icing on a cake that still in the oven - we need the game improved, modes/feats/revenge fixed. If this were so important ppl would turn their mics on and role-play their character rather than wonder how feat X is till S+ tier

Arekonator
09-11-2018, 05:15 PM
Not really. Women did fight in WW2, but front line soldiers? No. Did they have bionic robot arms? No. People wanted a realistic WW2 game. BF5s first trailer was the polar opposite. It’s not about hating women, it’s about hating that political correctness. My great-grandfather fought in WW2, and he’d be rolling in his grave at EAs portrayal of it. Are you saying he is shameful? "Disabled black women on WW2 frontline" used to be meme to mock senseless "inclusion" not so long ago. Now you cant tell difference between reality and its parody, Poe's law at full swing. This is truly wild timeline.
Also some slope that supposedly doesnt exist...

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-11-2018, 07:09 PM
Not really. Women did fight in WW2, but front line soldiers? No. Did they have bionic robot arms? No. People wanted a realistic WW2 game. BF5s first trailer was the polar opposite. Itís not about hating women, itís about hating that political correctness. My great-grandfather fought in WW2, and heíd be rolling in his grave at EAs portrayal of it. Are you saying he is shameful?

People didnít ďbust a nutĒ about hulk because you could still identity him as the hulk. You can no longer identify Warden as Warden, x10 for the rest of the heroes. People care about cosmetics, just as they care about how they look in real life. So no, people wonít get over it and they have every reason to not get over it
I'm not going to say graphics don't matter in a game as its difficult for me to play games like cod without using thermo even with superior graphics of today.
And don't use the whole "my father was a firefighter and died on 911" crap to try to prove a point. That is shameful and puts me in a position to closes the argument based on respect for the dead soldiers.
The fact is that your being pathetic with your agruement. Who cares about historic realism in a game... Because it's a game so maybe you should get off that high ww2 horse and listen to the wise words of Bruce banners doppelganger when he says, "Hulk always hulk."

DefiledDragon
09-11-2018, 07:27 PM
I'm not going to say graphics don't matter in a game as its difficult for me to play games like cod without using thermo even with superior graphics of today.
And don't use the whole "my father was a firefighter and died on 911" crap to try to prove a point. That is shameful and puts me in a position to closes the argument based on respect for the dead soldiers.
The fact is that your being pathetic with your agruement. Who cares about historic realism in a game... Because it's a game so maybe you should get off that high ww2 horse and listen to the wise words of Bruce banners doppelganger when he says, "Hulk always hulk."

The Battlefield series of games have always put the emphasis on authenticity with regard to the depiction of combatants and equipment. Now it suddenly looks like fortnite. Yeah, Battlefield fans are pissed. Who'da thunk?

Arekonator
09-11-2018, 07:57 PM
Who cares about historic realism in a game... It was advertised as such. Gee, i wonder why people are angry they got something else than it was promised.

'm not going to say graphics don't matter in a game as its difficult for me to play games like cod without using thermo even with superior graphics of today.
And don't use the whole "my father was a firefighter and died on 911" crap to try to prove a point. That is shameful and puts me in a position to closes the argument based on respect for the dead soldiers.
The fact is that your being pathetic with your agruement.
Not nearly as pathetic and shamefull as rewriting history to fit a diversity quota,

ChampionRuby50g
09-11-2018, 09:12 PM
To quote Patrick Soderlund, who coincidentally happened to leave EA after saying this, perhaps Iím not educated enough.

We can all see how well the ďjust suck it up, doesnít have to be historically accurateĒ mantra is doing for EA with BF5. Lowest pre-orders in history, losing money in stocks. So looks like a lot of people care about history in a video game.

RenegadeRasta
09-11-2018, 09:37 PM
It's as if they looked at Dynasty Warriors 9 and thought it was cool.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-11-2018, 09:58 PM
It was advertised as such. Gee, i wonder why people are angry they got something else than it was promised.

Not nearly as pathetic and shamefull as rewriting history to fit a diversity quota,


As far as advertising goes people aren't shocked when redbull doesn't give them wings.
I agree the appeasement created a rift with the fan base and they over did it which may cost them financially. That is thier choice.

To believe that no nurse or other women in WWII picked up a gun to fight an enemy is just naive. In my eyes that makes them soldiers and they deserve as much honor as any other male counterpart that enlisted as a soldier. Giving those women soldier outfits in the game is a cosmetic detail.

DefiledDragon
09-11-2018, 10:01 PM
As far as advertising goes people aren't shocked when redbull doesn't give them wings.
I agree the appeasement created a rift with the fan base and they over did it which may cost them financially. That is thier choice.

All of that is true, it IS their choice. What isn't acceptable however is when the publisher, mainstream media and the games designer start calling everyone a misogynistic ****** because they don't like what they've done to the franchise. That's just flat out childish and pathetic.

Archeun
09-11-2018, 10:09 PM
Nobody deserves to be online due to a video game. Punks threaten people online. I see people say things constantly online that would get their smug faces knocked into next week IRL. It's easy to be a tough guy online. It's easy to lie online. That's just a byproduct of it. Having said that, the massive amount of vitriol and hatred towards certain things should be a very blatant wake up call. Many people are incredibly upset about the way this game is going.

On PC: The Steam sale/free weekend etc spike the population to 40k+. The game dropped to 30k fairly quickly and as I predicted; continues to drop. Marching Fire is a make or break moment for the game. The Git Gud community may be happy with the casual's leaving but hardcore Git Gud players are not a huge segment of the gaming population.

Archeun
09-11-2018, 10:11 PM
Nobody deserves to be threatened online.

DefiledDragon
09-11-2018, 10:13 PM
Nobody deserves to be online due to a video game. Punks threaten people online. I see people say things constantly online that would get their smug faces knocked into next week IRL. It's easy to be a tough guy online. It's easy to lie online. That's just a byproduct of it. Having said that, the massive amount of vitriol and hatred towards certain things should be a very blatant wake up call. Many people are incredibly upset about the way this game is going.

On PC: The Steam sale/free weekend etc spike the population to 40k+. The game dropped to 30k fairly quickly and as I predicted; continues to drop. Marching Fire is a make or break moment for the game. The Git Gud community may be happy with the casual's leaving but hardcore Git Gud players are not a huge segment of the gaming population.

I would be interested to hear what it is that drives new players away. Is it all the cheese? Is the skill floor too high? (although I doubt that as it's pretty low for most of the roster and creeping ever lower). Are the game modes not interesting? Is it the ganking? Do they play the story mode and decide they just don't like it?

Is there any hard data anywhere that offers any insight into why people put the game down so quickly?

Archeun
09-11-2018, 10:17 PM
I think it's a combination of a lot of things. People come into the game and see the toxicity in the games. The death-balls squashing people doesn't help. The skill curve is rough at times. The imbalances in some characters can be frustrating. The major lack of game modes isn't helpful.

DefiledDragon
09-11-2018, 11:15 PM
I think it's a combination of a lot of things. People come into the game and see the toxicity in the games. The death-balls squashing people doesn't help. The skill curve is rough at times. The imbalances in some characters can be frustrating. The major lack of game modes isn't helpful.

Yeah, it's unfortunate that the mode with by far the most players is the mode in which you're going to be fighting two people at once, if not more, in almost every fight. Even when you know how to defend against multiple attackers it gets tiresome pretty quickly. I imagine it's just soul destroying for newbies.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-12-2018, 12:35 AM
Yeah, it's unfortunate that the mode with by far the most players is the mode in which you're going to be fighting two people at once, if not more, in almost every fight. Even when you know how to defend against multiple attackers it gets tiresome pretty quickly. I imagine it's just soul destroying for newbies.
I thought inferno dominion was better in this regard

DefiledDragon
09-12-2018, 12:50 AM
I thought inferno dominion was better in this regard

Yeah I loved infernal Dominion and carried on playing it, even against bots when the playerbase lost interest and went back to regular and that's the problem. Infernal Dominion was great, it discouraged ganking, made the objectives actually count for something and it was possible to beat deathballing easily just by holding two of the three objectives and boosting them. End result? Most people lose interest and go back to ganking each other.

It's clear at this point I think that most FH players enjoy a 4 v 4 free for all over anything requiring some level of cooperation and/or strategy. This, coupled with the relatively small playerbase on PC, leads to modes like Tribute and Infernal (once people got over the novelty) ignored and pretty much inactive in the PvP sense. I hope the same thing doesn't happen to Breach, but being honest, I think it will and that's a damn shame.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-12-2018, 01:44 AM
Yeah I loved infernal Dominion and carried on playing it, even against bots when the playerbase lost interest and went back to regular and that's the problem. Infernal Dominion was great, it discouraged ganking, made the objectives actually count for something and it was possible to beat deathballing easily just by holding two of the three objectives and boosting them. End result? Most people lose interest and go back to ganking each other.

It's clear at this point I think that most FH players enjoy a 4 v 4 free for all over anything requiring some level of cooperation and/or strategy. This, coupled with the relatively small playerbase on PC, leads to modes like Tribute and Infernal (once people got over the novelty) ignored and pretty much inactive in the PvP sense. I hope the same thing doesn't happen to Breach, but being honest, I think it will and that's a damn shame.
I agree with all your statements. In Warhammer the battle is overseen by the player. In dominion it's easy for a team mate to not see the bigger picture or myself included. I can honestly say there are times when I respawn an don't know where to go to be the most help and would love to have a "team leader" who can see the bigger picture... But for honor doesn't have that in anyway. More so when playing alone on dominion there isn't any way to warn teammates of traps and whatnot

ChampionRuby50g
09-12-2018, 02:11 AM
As far as advertising goes people aren't shocked when redbull doesn't give them wings.
I agree the appeasement created a rift with the fan base and they over did it which may cost them financially. That is thier choice.

To believe that no nurse or other women in WWII picked up a gun to fight an enemy is just naive. In my eyes that makes them soldiers and they deserve as much honor as any other male counterpart that enlisted as a soldier. Giving those women soldier outfits in the game is a cosmetic detail.

Because I think most people are smart enough to realise that a drink wonít give them wings and itís just a metaphor for the energy drink.

No ones saying that women didnít fight. 350 thousand US Women served. But 15.65 million US men also served. 405 thousand of those men didnít come home. Thatís more deaths than the total of women serving. Like already mentioned, BF has been known for its authenticity and realism in its games, and left the silly ďmemeĒ skins to CoD. One of the reasons why the game has been getting increasingly popular. Then to do a complete backflip on all of that because the director couldnít tell his daughter that it was predominantly men who fought and died on the battlefield and turn the game into something that is exactly opposite of authentic and insult its fan base while doing so is career suicide. And itís more than just ďsoldier outfitsĒ. Itís a British women wearing a trench coat with a cricket bat and robot arm.

If youíre gonna put women in the game, at least make it realistic and believable. Not this BS.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-12-2018, 02:15 AM
Though it's not really part of this topic I to would like to know, as a mass pole, why people leave for honor. I could make a list of things I dislike about the game but overall I think it's a great game...now.. When it's working.
For honor will not survive simply because it only goes up to 4v4 imo. That few of players on a team presents game experience issues. It's more personal, more toxic, more pressure on the individual to perform well, and the game is more fragile. Frankly there aren't enough correct pieces to call it a puzzle so the games battle mode is inharently broken.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-12-2018, 02:46 AM
Because I think most people are smart enough to realise that a drink wonít give them wings and itís just a metaphor for the energy drink.

No ones saying that women didnít fight. 350 thousand US Women served. But 15.65 million US men also served. 405 thousand of those men didnít come home. Thatís more deaths than the total of women serving. Like already mentioned, BF has been known for its authenticity and realism in its games, and left the silly ďmemeĒ skins to CoD. One of the reasons why the game has been getting increasingly popular. Then to do a complete backflip on all of that because the director couldnít tell his daughter that it was predominantly men who fought and died on the battlefield and turn the game into something that is exactly opposite of authentic and insult its fan base while doing so is career suicide. And itís more than just ďsoldier outfitsĒ. Itís a British women wearing a trench coat with a cricket bat and robot arm.

If youíre gonna put women in the game, at least make it realistic and believable. Not this BS.
I agree with what you say under the guize of "give the people what they want"
I don't care about statics on a matter of morality however. One or a hundred women to a billion men makes no difference in honoring lost souls equally.
I personally dislike goofy games and disliked shinobi because he could disappear but I never once raised the issue. Why? Because it's a game not an exact reenactment or even realistic for that matter. So when i hear about people busting a nut about the voices it makes me laugh. It's like a bunch of gay men, beta males, and women fighting against a cosmetic makeup company that decided to discontinue their current 💋 💄 and replace it with lipbalm.
To extend an olive branch if for honor replaced shugoki and have him just a female character I would be vexed. I would mention it on the forum but I wouldn't be up in arms about it...because as much as I liked male shugoki, female shug has the same mechanics. Plus I did make a "female" with a pink bow and a pink dress with that akward smile mask and that purple club that looks like a "girl toy" with unblossomed flowers on it. ...turns out it was fun beating people down with a giant "girl toy"...who would have known.

The_B0G_
09-12-2018, 01:08 PM
Yeah I loved infernal Dominion and carried on playing it, even against bots when the playerbase lost interest and went back to regular and that's the problem. Infernal Dominion was great, it discouraged ganking, made the objectives actually count for something and it was possible to beat deathballing easily just by holding two of the three objectives and boosting them. End result? Most people lose interest and go back to ganking each other.

It's clear at this point I think that most FH players enjoy a 4 v 4 free for all over anything requiring some level of cooperation and/or strategy. This, coupled with the relatively small playerbase on PC, leads to modes like Tribute and Infernal (once people got over the novelty) ignored and pretty much inactive in the PvP sense. I hope the same thing doesn't happen to Breach, but being honest, I think it will and that's a damn shame.

I didn't find infernal dom was any better fot ganking, I played a few games where there was 3 guys deathballing and one in the middle clearing minions, any time they go into one of the zones the fire wall goes up and takes half of your health when you goto help your friend who is fighting 1v3, I never understood how people say it made ganking less frequent, in my experience it was worse for ganking.


As far as Tribute goes, people stopped playing it because when you go up against a pre-made group you're basically screwed, the devs need to fix game chat, it's been too long since they broke it with dedicated servers, it gives pre-made groups an even bigger advantage, it needs to be fixed. Maybe then people will try out tribute mode again, communicating and coordinating without mics in game in equivilant to pointing and grunting to try to get your point across.

The_B0G_
09-12-2018, 01:22 PM
As far as on the first page with people saying they don't understand why pope would post this to reddit and not the forums, I haven't seen any overly childish reactions on the forums about the voices, reddit on the other hand is full of teenagers and kids that over react when they don't get their way, thats probably why he posted on there.

I don't think it would be suitable to post that on the forums. I haven't seen any death threats on here yet.

CandleInTheDark
09-12-2018, 06:08 PM
As far as Tribute goes, people stopped playing it because when you go up against a pre-made group you're basically screwed, the devs need to fix game chat, it's been too long since they broke it with dedicated servers, it gives pre-made groups an even bigger advantage, it needs to be fixed. Maybe then people will try out tribute mode again, communicating and coordinating without mics in game in equivilant to pointing and grunting to try to get your point across.

That's a pretty good point, having played it micced up and not. I think honestly they have had a lot on their plates network-wise, I am hoping now they have everything, including custom, on dedicated servers it frees up some time for them. It was always going to be the case with the way they have gone about it, releasing servers as they are still being fixed in some respects, that there would be priorities and this needs to be a higher one with breach also needing communication.