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View Full Version : Would dominion be in a better state without healing in zones?



CandleInTheDark
09-01-2018, 11:13 PM
I don't think I have seen this suggested, but I think that a good deal of the problems people have with deathballing would be lessened to downright nullified if there was no easy heal to full within a few seconds zone. So I know there are going to be people who disagree with this right off the bat but hear (read?) me out.

I am mostly a tribute player when I can catch one, I also put a decent amount of time into infernal dominion where this was done if with everyone having bodycount for the soldier lane, and in both cases deathballing was just not as effective. Part of that with tribute is you cannot afford to ignore the objectives (though once you have a couple, camping in your own zone can be effective), but there is a bigger reason in my view and that is that there is no easy access to healing. Here is why that is important, say I run into three people, if I target switch with a character with quick lights or with say a kensei between heavy dodges and the followup, I might take half a bar off at least two of them and leave another with a few licks, on a good day I might take one out or put all three below halfway and they move on, the issue for them is that if they keep on trying to deathball, well my contribution has had a lasting effect and one or two of them might fall to the next teammate.

This does not happen in dominion, or it happens very rarely, because if they weren't on a zone then those three will go straight to a zone and if they have an effective deathball going there will be no one to stop them having full health within five or so seconds and begin again. Unlike with the likes of tribute, yeah I can hold out and damage a few but more often than not it has no lasting effect outside a death on my card and a kill, and renown, for three of them.

I think that removing healing from the zones would make an improvement to the game without being something that makes it feel dumbed down at higher tier levels and there is still the likes of bodycount, bounty hunter, tier three and four heals and of course executions, soon, for some, perks also so in my view we can do without the quick access to full health zones provide currently.

DefiledDragon
09-01-2018, 11:33 PM
Making Dominion play more like Infernal Dominion would go a long way to switching the focus from ganking to holding objectives. Trouble is, people just seem to love ganking. I was saddened to notice that, during the second iteration of the Infernal event, the popularity for the game mode dropped off pretty quickly. I really did think it would catch on, but I was wrong. There is definitely an audience for the more tactically oriented modes of play but it does appear to be a relatively small one sadly. I am part of that audience however. If you're on PC and you ever want to play some tribute with somebody who will actually play for the objectives then feel free to add me. My UPlay name is the same as my forum name.

Fugh_Q
09-01-2018, 11:51 PM
I think this change could really help close the gap between a really strong team and a weak team in dominion. When the stronger team kills everybody on the weaker team they can get full health back by the time the other team gets respawned. If the stronger team isn't at full health then the weaker team will have a good chance of taking over the zones, which will lessen the amount of one sided games.

Lord_Cherubi
09-01-2018, 11:57 PM
Yeah i agree, alltho if they would remove healing in zones i think you should be able to heal by killing minions like in infernal but preferably a little slower. And make boosting actually worth your time like it was in infernal.

NHLGoldenKnight
09-02-2018, 01:39 AM
Not being able to heal in zones would actually help with increase in ganking even more.

Alustar.
09-02-2018, 01:50 AM
I completely agree with this little tid bit. I'm kind of surprised it hasn't been put out into the suggestions yet, but hopefully we can get some more support and maybe some mod attention to push it through. I would love to see a return to Dominion being more tactical.

ChampionRuby50g
09-02-2018, 01:58 AM
Not being able to heal in zones would actually help with increase in ganking even more.

Can you explain how?

SangLong524
09-02-2018, 02:08 AM
I fail to see why no healing would discourage people to gank beside encouraging it more to avoid death.
Inferno dominion is a nice idea to discourage too many people to swarm a zone. Technically it doesn't prevent ganking totally but anyone who decide to jump in contested zones a few second later will definitely suffer being handicapped. Surely a skilled defender can dispatch these weaken foes with a hit or two. Not to mention the defender can go crazy faster with so many attackers feeding their revenge. Just apply the same thing to normal dominion without the boost, bump the damage taken for interfering contested zone and we are good. Not ideally but surely it can discourage people with some sense and the chickens.
No healing will likely make certain orders a pain in the *** to achieve btw.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-02-2018, 06:35 AM
I also would prefer dominion to be like inferno

JOHN19812017
09-02-2018, 10:45 AM
Dominion would also be improved with either a reworked feat system or feats removed completely.

Vakris_One
09-02-2018, 11:11 AM
Good suggestion. In conjunction with this I think they should make boosting points give x4 renown like in Infernal Dominion so there is increased emphasis on playing the objectives and let minion kills give a bit of health back but not as much as it was in Infernal Dom. One thing Infernal Dom did really well was to make Dominion actually feel tactical - the interplay between boosting a point and defending it and deciding when to go and heal from minions was great.

Devils-_-legacy
09-02-2018, 04:55 PM
I had a different experience with infernal every time when I went against a group they just held one objective till the game went to breaking I found it more boring then normal dominion I did like going against solos on it tho but i got bored fast and went back to regular dominon

Lord_Cherubi
09-02-2018, 05:08 PM
I enjoyed Infernal quite a lot and i think especially the fire walls really did their job. They didn't stop the mindless zombies from ganking me but it sure made it a hell of a lot easier to deal with the situation and sometimes survive.

Visually speaking it makes no sense, i don't know how they should be to be at least a little less immersion-breaking but i guess it's not the biggest fantasy element in the game 🤔

AramenThePiper
09-02-2018, 05:53 PM
Infernal Dominion was like Dominion should be.
You were required to boost zones and stand on it, and it happened that I won games when the other team was ganking and better than mine just because they didn't take time into boosting the zones.
I didn't see much ganking in ID because I always focused on zones while many other people just played it like they would play the standard one.
Also, I don't know why it dropped in popularity in a matter of days really, it was a very good mode, almost like Test Your Metal.

DefiledDragon
09-02-2018, 05:55 PM
I'm struggling to get back into the game now Infernal is over. I find regular Dominion a poor substitute at this point, Tribute is dead, Deathmatch is just Dominion without zones Duel and Brawl are about the only viable options left for me at this point unless I'm fulfilling orders. They should add Infernal Dominion as a permanent variation of Dominion imo, but I don't see it happening, especially with Breach around the corner.

Lord_Cherubi
09-02-2018, 06:17 PM
Well, after Breach gets released and people jump in to experiment with the new stuff they'll have plenty of time to figure out what the hell they want yo do with the regular dominion.

And isn't Breach pretty much Dom and Tribute combined?

DefiledDragon
09-02-2018, 07:55 PM
Yeah, that's pretty much how I saw it when I was watching the last Warriors Den, it looks exactly like a combination of Dominion and Tribute. I hope the larger maps and objective oriented design will encourage players to pair off and go for objectives, giving the opportunity for 2 v 2's or maybe even 1 v 1 fights to take place at key points, but there's also the possibility that the objective oriented design will just send everybody scuttling back to Dominion. I think Ubi are terrified of making any significant changes to Dominion because it's far and away their most popular mode and they probably worry that making major changes to it might drive players away from the game altogether.

NHLGoldenKnight
09-02-2018, 09:00 PM
Can you explain how?

Because now, when one of the gankers is heavily injured, he retreats to his zone to heal while his team continues without him. It makes them vulnerable. Also, if team who is defending vs gankers has one zone, they can use it to heal while other members hold off gankers.

If there would be no healing in captured zones, that would be one objective less for gankers to care about and zones would lose almost any importance since even now, team who is turtuling on 1 zone can still win vs team who has two zones, so controling zones has less and less of real impact.

Also, if you are defender who is able to kill multiple enemies and protect your zone, you deserve to heal because those guys will be back in 10 sec and you will die and lose your zone , not because they are better, but because of poor game mechanics.

You guys want to fix Dominion for real? I know how but I also know that everyone is agains this simple and obvious solution. Single ****ing pick is a must. It would:

A. Reduce gank since speed of heroes would vary and it would be harder to move as a group. Also gank would be less efficient because with 1 hero per class we would get less cheese and poor hero mechanics abuse.

B, It would help with balancing in 4v4. We already know it is hard to balance heroes between 1v1 and 4v4, but with single pick, any balance issues in 4v4 would be less obvious and team could focus more on 1v1. There wouldn't be 4 Shugokis sitting on one zone or 4 Shamans biting or 4 Centurions rocketing through the sky.

Off course no one wants this because most of the community are tryhards who want to get their cheese. Healing zone would help with that and only who would profit are those with better healing feats.

Lord_Cherubi
09-02-2018, 09:03 PM
Yeah, that's pretty much how I saw it when I was watching the last Warriors Den, it looks exactly like a combination of Dominion and Tribute. I hope the larger maps and objective oriented design will encourage players to pair off and go for objectives, giving the opportunity for 2 v 2's or maybe even 1 v 1 fights to take place at key points, but there's also the possibility that the objective oriented design will just send everybody scuttling back to Dominion. I think Ubi are terrified of making any significant changes to Dominion because it's far and away their most popular mode and they probably worry that making major changes to it might drive players away from the game altogether.

To my taste there should be even more minions, make it feel like an all out WAR! But i don't know how that would turn out now that they've finally beefed them up. Either way, im glad that we'll finally get an objective based mode!

Take the objectives out of R6 Siege and you'll have what Dominion feels like but now it looks like the tables are turning big time ✊

Lord_Cherubi
09-02-2018, 09:10 PM
Because now, when one of the gankers is heavily injured, he retreats to his zone to heal while his team continues without him. It makes them vulnerable. Also, if team who is defending vs gankers has one zone, they can use it to heal while other members hold off gankers.

If there would be no healing in captured zones, that would be one objective less for gankers to care about and zones would lose almost any importance since even now, team who is turtuling on 1 zone can still win vs team who has two zones, so controling zones has less and less of real impact.

Also, if you are defender who is able to kill multiple enemies and protect your zone, you deserve to heal because those guys will be back in 10 sec and you will die and lose your zone , not because they are better, but because of poor game mechanics.

You guys want to fix Dominion for real? I know how but I also know that everyone is agains this simple and obvious solution. Single ****ing pick is a must. It would:

A. Reduce gank since speed of heroes would vary and it would be harder to move as a group. Also gank would be less efficient because with 1 hero per class we would get less cheese and poor hero mechanics abuse.

B, It would help with balancing in 4v4. We already know it is hard to balance heroes between 1v1 and 4v4, but with single pick, any balance issues in 4v4 would be less obvious and team could focus more on 1v1. There wouldn't be 4 Shugokis sitting on one zone or 4 Shamans biting or 4 Centurions rocketing through the sky.

Off course no one wants this because most of the community are tryhards who want to get their cheese. Healing zone would help with that and only who would profit are those with better healing feats.

Don't get me wrong here, single pick in general in games like this is usually a healthy way to go. But for the love of Lord Chanka, can you imagine the ****storm that it would cause when 4 Warden mains go at each others necks because all of them wants him for example? It would be even worse for PC players as they would have the in-game chat at their disposal to spread the toxic even better.

Not just that but what about players who simply can't or don't want to play any other character than their main? If it's a popular pick their gaming experience would suffer greatly as their forced to play a type of way that they don't prefer.

NHLGoldenKnight
09-02-2018, 09:20 PM
Well, benefit of that would be much higher than if few players suffer. Let's not kid ourselves, everyone plays at least 3 different classes already. Can you imagine CS or Battlefield with team full of snipers? No matter individual character balance, when you don't have team balance, it doesn't help.

Also, there is a good solution NHL 2018 is using. You pick your position ( in this case your class) in advance and then based on that, game connects you to lobby that is in need of your class. It works very well in NHL, there is no fight over position because they are pre selected and everyone plays what they want. One issue is that matcmaking would take around 1 or 2 minutes longer, most likely. But imo, it would be well worth it.

Lord_Cherubi
09-02-2018, 09:50 PM
Well, benefit of that would be much higher than if few players suffer. Let's not kid ourselves, everyone plays at least 3 different classes already. Can you imagine CS or Battlefield with team full of snipers? No matter individual character balance, when you don't have team balance, it doesn't help.

Also, there is a good solution NHL 2018 is using. You pick your position ( in this case your class) in advance and then based on that, game connects you to lobby that is in need of your class. It works very well in NHL, there is no fight over position because they are pre selected and everyone plays what they want. One issue is that matcmaking would take around 1 or 2 minutes longer, most likely. But imo, it would be well worth it.

Didn't even think about picking in advance, that might work. But it also might stress the matchmaking even more and these forums get tons of complaints already every day about this issue.

Still, i have to be slightly on my toes here. I don't know why i like to compare For Honor and R6 Siege as much as i do but they have a lot of similiar elements to them so here goes:

In Siege this system works very well. While all of the characters are unique, they have their own gadgets and loadouts and play a bit different, at the end of the day it's still a FPS. Even if you can't get to pick your favourite one every time you can do perfectly fine if you understand how the game works and have a decent aim. But in Honor, you could say that all of the heroes play completely different aside from the very basic stuff.

In conclusion, like you said it propably wouldn't be as much of a issue as im here making it to be. Would it solve anything? Hard to tell, they should propably play with this idea on future events or something but it could be at least one more step on the right path.

Oh and just go clarify, i myself could never commit to any one hero forever, i jump between all of em (except Valkyrie).

DefiledDragon
09-02-2018, 11:43 PM
To my taste there should be even more minions, make it feel like an all out WAR! But i don't know how that would turn out now that they've finally beefed them up. Either way, im glad that we'll finally get an objective based mode!

Take the objectives out of R6 Siege and you'll have what Dominion feels like but now it looks like the tables are turning big time ✊

Well here's hoping. Thing is, we already have an objective based mode (Tribute) and it's all but completely ignored.

DefiledDragon
09-02-2018, 11:48 PM
One way they could make objectives an absolute priority. Set the boost rate to 3 and remove rallying. First team to break has to break the other team and kill them all before they get picked off themselves. A 4 man deathball can only hold one zone at a time and that change would make holding two zones essential and thus force teams to split up.

Mighty_Mackerel
09-03-2018, 12:43 AM
I don't think I have seen this suggested, but I think that a good deal of the problems people have with deathballing would be lessened to downright nullified if there was no easy heal to full within a few seconds zone. So I know there are going to be people who disagree with this right off the bat but hear (read?) me out.

I am mostly a tribute player when I can catch one, I also put a decent amount of time into infernal dominion where this was done if with everyone having bodycount for the soldier lane, and in both cases deathballing was just not as effective. Part of that with tribute is you cannot afford to ignore the objectives (though once you have a couple, camping in your own zone can be effective), but there is a bigger reason in my view and that is that there is no easy access to healing. Here is why that is important, say I run into three people, if I target switch with a character with quick lights or with say a kensei between heavy dodges and the followup, I might take half a bar off at least two of them and leave another with a few licks, on a good day I might take one out or put all three below halfway and they move on, the issue for them is that if they keep on trying to deathball, well my contribution has had a lasting effect and one or two of them might fall to the next teammate.

This does not happen in dominion, or it happens very rarely, because if they weren't on a zone then those three will go straight to a zone and if they have an effective deathball going there will be no one to stop them having full health within five or so seconds and begin again. Unlike with the likes of tribute, yeah I can hold out and damage a few but more often than not it has no lasting effect outside a death on my card and a kill, and renown, for three of them.

I think that removing healing from the zones would make an improvement to the game without being something that makes it feel dumbed down at higher tier levels and there is still the likes of bodycount, bounty hunter, tier three and four heals and of course executions, soon, for some, perks also so in my view we can do without the quick access to full health zones provide currently.

That and no feats. In fact, if dominion was changed to how Infernal Dominion was designed just without the ring of fire, I'd be a happy camper.

dinosaurlicker
09-03-2018, 08:28 AM
Maybe iron lungs and some feats for vikings/knights could be changed to instead allow healing on zones. Cuz let’s be real, who tf actually uses iron lungs???

BigDaddyDevil
09-03-2018, 08:54 AM
devs idea to improve dominion
1. completely change dominion to domination like elimination no respawn. 4 seperate spawn points for each team member. 2 spawn closer to midfield 1 spawn closer to the other capture points. a rally revives killed team members instantly. breaking you cant revive them at all

2. another option is when a team enters the cap rather one or multiple. only that number of the opposing team can enter to fight for it. say im alone cap zone c if i stay in the zone. 2 members from the opposing team come to take it. as they get close who ever is closest to it. gets picked up by a invisible sensor zone surronding cap area. only one can enter the zone to fight for it. the others cant either flames go up for dramatic effect, spiked poles come down or go up, a gate or door slams shut. however many of the team is in the cap only that number of the opposing team can enter. midfield would remain a free for all

3. rework how dominion fuctions capture points take a lot longer to cap. each zone keeps a tally of how many points each team has gotten so far to cap it. first team that hits that number wins that cap get 2 out of 3 zones other team breaks. only midfield can you reduce the other teams total in that zone while adding to your own total. this would require strategy and require defense of zones. less ganking would be the point of theses changes.

SpaceJim12
09-03-2018, 09:27 AM
I suggested it right after weekend spend in Tribute.
You can't deathball, if you lose one teammate in every deathball. Even more, I suggested to made same respawn rules. Someone who have all three zones should have more time to spawn, than people who have none.
But Ubi too lazy or too busy to fix their most popular gamemode.=)

pootybear2013
09-03-2018, 02:44 PM
I honestly would play more tribute or infernal if it wasn’t for the wait times. I often wonder how much the wait times influence other players into saying “F*** it It’s been ten minutes and I just wanna play at this point”.

Lord_Cherubi
09-03-2018, 03:20 PM
I honestly would play more tribute or infernal if it wasn’t for the wait times. I often wonder how much the wait times influence other players into saying “F*** it It’s been ten minutes and I just wanna play at this point”.

This is the reason why i play mostly Dominion. I want to be able to get quick matches in, do my orders and you know play the game, not wait in a lobby.

What im pleased about is that finally i was able to start ranked play this season. It always says low activity but i no longer have to wait long to get into 1v1 or even tournaments. Full tournaments too with full pools and actual playoffs. Im very happy about this since sometimes you just get fed up with Dom.