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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:26 AM
Well, we all know that Japanese could use parachutes but most of them did not use them as their code of conduct did not agree with it. They prefered to die once shot down and falling into enemy hands as a captive was out of question...so...No Ctrl+E in Japanense aircraft? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:26 AM
Well, we all know that Japanese could use parachutes but most of them did not use them as their code of conduct did not agree with it. They prefered to die once shot down and falling into enemy hands as a captive was out of question...so...No Ctrl+E in Japanense aircraft? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:32 AM
um, crtl+e?
i do never bail.
at least when im flying my plane in my "raggery skin" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
i dont know much about japanese culture though, but yes i believe they would have been called cowards by their comrades when bailing.
its their culture.
they did also do some cool things.
ive heard about some japanese fighter ace doing stunts over an american base, and the americans were not shooting, just looking and waving.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:33 AM
OK so why are there surviving Kamikazi pilots still about?

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:34 AM
elvive wrote:
- OK so why are there surviving Kamikazi pilots still
- about?

Couldn't figure out how to takeoff? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:35 AM
Because there's always a few who can never manage to become proficient in their line of work./i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:38 AM
What was the name of the Japanesse top scoreing ACE?

The one who fought in China, Manchuria, the Pacific, the Attack on Pearll, Midway, and the Solomons???

The one who survived 5 bail outs?

And was still reveared as a Hero of Bushido?

Awarded personaly by Emperor Hirohito?

Awwwww yes!

Subaru Sakai !


go ask him.




http://home.comcast.net/~ick_352nd/

http://home.comcast.net/~ick_352nd/icarus-sig.jpg


Message Edited on 10/26/03‚ 11:39PM by Ick_352nd

Message Edited on 10/26/0311:39PM by Ick_352nd

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:45 AM
ick you might want to check this guy out http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/IJARG/nishizawa.html

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ZG77_Nagual
10-27-2003, 12:48 AM
Nishizawa was a brilliant maniac - no doubt. The training those early Japanese pilots completed was astounding.

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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:23 AM
wahta "vacilos"

-------------------------------------
IGNI RENATUS

R.A.F 198 Squadron

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:26 AM
Ick_352nd wrote:
- What was the name of the Japanesse top scoreing ACE?
-
- The one who fought in China, Manchuria, the Pacific,
- the Attack on Pearll, Midway, and the Solomons???
-
- The one who survived 5 bail outs?
-
- And was still reveared as a Hero of Bushido?
-
- Awarded personaly by Emperor Hirohito?
-
- Awwwww yes!
-
- Subaru Sakai !
-
-
- go ask him.
-
-


Sadly..we cannot ask him. He has passed on.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 02:04 AM
elvive wrote:
- OK so why are there surviving Kamikazi pilots still
- about?
LOL! did you hear of the kamakazi pilot who just returned from this tenth successful mission?
sorry bad joke. Anyway, have you guys read Samurai by Saburo Sakai? Fantastic read. He was one of those guys who did not go through with the suicide mission.

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Saluti!
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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 02:43 AM
My deepest respect to the Japaneese pilots, they fought in a strange one-on-one kind of way, where the entire squadron would split up when engaging the enemy to find their own prey? Guess they didn't have the "Great War" experience as their European and US counterparts and was taught that team-work actually pays..... Like it does on FB-servers/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

rgds

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 02:48 AM
there is a great book out by osprey press regarding the JAAF and JNAF in WW2. It covers everything: tactics, aircraft, uniforms ect. Really cool pictures Ive never seen before. lots of info. I guess the Japanese fought more like we do in DF servers than any other airforce. Once we get some Japanese aircraft, It will be like real life!!! lol.

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Saluti!
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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 03:15 AM
I wonder what would have happened with the war had they not used kamakazes and kept the pilots and planes....a deep thought indeed....

-----------------------------------------------------------
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Steaks
375th FS

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 03:23 AM
As long as I can Joystick Button 1 my enemies, Ctrl+E is about as important as Cntrl+L to me.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 03:34 AM
i think to begin with they had no parachutes
nor did the brits in ww1
btw kamikaze attacks are quiet effeicent
or canbe
the kamikaze torpeodos damaged 1 ship
500+japs died in those things
1man torpedo
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 03:34 AM
Because of old Hollywood war movie mess our heads up.

Regards
SnowLeopard

Message Edited on 10/26/0309:06PM by WereSnowleopard

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 04:02 AM
Kamakazi attacks are an extremely efficiant way to destroy the enemy. But you could never talk me into it. I love myself too much and hate everyone else, especially YOU! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 04:28 AM
there is another question: Will the point system be changed? Now you get minus points in VEF or VOW when you die, that should be the other way round as soon as we get the patch /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

2 things we need in FB:
The 110 and the desert!!!
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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 05:21 AM
I remember a while ago when I went to the EAA Museum in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, I was talking to a vet that worked in the Eagle Hanger. He said a Japanese vet had visited the museum, and told his story on how he was trained as a kamakazi pilot, but the war ended before he could go out on a kamikaze mission. They let him sit in the cockpit of the plane because he never got to 50 years ago.

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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 05:28 AM
Keep in mind that kamakazi tactics were used later on in the war. The majority of the best trained pilots were on hand at the beginning of the war so, much like all of the other theaters, as the war went on and desperation continued, pilots were trained less and less. Regardless of if kamakazi attacks were started or not, the situation would have essentially been the same except that experienced US fighter squadrons would have engaged in standard air to air combat and probably won most of the engagements because the pilots they were up against were not trained as well.

No I do not think that kamakazi or no kamakazi would the situation have been any different.

It is an interesting note that our DF servers are much more like Japan's fighter tactics of the time. I must do more reading. I guess it depends on your perspective in the DF servers.

I usually tend to try and get paired up with someone so I can use wingman based tactics...provided the other guy has some knowledge/training it in himself (which is rare).

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"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 05:52 AM
If I remember correctly, the Kamakazee, or" Devine Wind" was not a popular part of the Bushido culture.

The Gerneral who started the Kamakazee squadrons was found to be dishonorable and "opted" for hari cari.

Subaru Sakai came from the Subaru Clan, a very noble family, and said the suicide attacks were shamefull to Bushido.

But the point is, the Japanesse Aviators were not stupid. They carried parachutes and used them.

Just as the Samuri lost horses in battle, the pilots lost planes in battle. That was not dishonorable, just a cost.

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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 05:56 AM
And don't forget the Germans did the same thing to stop the effective daylight raids on their fatherland.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I do belive they were called:

"WareWolfs"

They used FW-190's as human missles against the British and American Bomber Groups. Like the Japanese, they were very ineffective.

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Message Edited on 10/27/03‚ 05:22AM by Ick_352nd

Message Edited on 10/27/03‚ 05:23AM by Ick_352nd

Message Edited on 10/27/0305:23AM by Ick_352nd

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 06:23 AM
For those of us who actually get shot down, Ctrl+E is not so bad, considering the viable options.. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 06:31 AM
Wingwoman wrote:
-
-
- Well, we all know that Japanese could use parachutes
- but most of them did not use them as their code of
- conduct did not agree with it. They prefered to die
- once shot down and falling into enemy hands as a
- captive was out of question...so...No Ctrl+E in
- Japanense aircraft? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
--



WRONG!

Japanese pilots chose not to wear parachutes because of the weight savings, and it's effect on aircraft performance. It had nothing to do with any "code of conduct".

Some of you guys have seen to many Hollywood depictions of the Japanese Army....

Sheesh.


<center><FONT color="red">[b]BlitzPig_EL</FONT>[B]<CENTER> http://old.jccc.net/~droberts/p40/images/p40home.gif
</img>.
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. "
--T.E. Lawrence

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 07:13 AM
Ick_352nd wrote:
- What was the name of the Japanesse top scoreing ACE?
-
- The one who fought in China, Manchuria, the Pacific,
- the Attack on Pearll, Midway, and the Solomons???
-
- The one who survived 5 bail outs?
-
- And was still reveared as a Hero of Bushido?
-
- Awarded personaly by Emperor Hirohito?
-
- Awwwww yes!
-
- Subaru Sakai !
-
-
- go ask him.
-
-

I wonder who you are talking about? Saburo Sakai was NOT their top ace, he didnt fought in Pearl or Midway and he didnt never have to bail out. In fact in his book "Samurai" he tells (among previous things) that they usually didnt had the chute fasted, because it encumbered the pilot.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 07:40 AM
In a way, I can understand doing a Kamikaze into a 35,000 ton cruiser. I have a harder time understanding some of the Russian pilots who prided themselves in being adept at ramming German a/c or trying to remove the tail section of Heinkels with their propellers. That's no Bushido code, bud, that's whacked.

<center> <img src=http://server2.uploadit.org/files/271003-StrictlyGI320.jpg>
</center>
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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 08:21 AM
ElAurens wrote:

WRONG!
-
- Japanese pilots chose not to wear parachutes because
- of the weight savings, and it's effect on aircraft
- performance. It had nothing to do with any "code of
- conduct".
-
- Some of you guys have seen to many Hollywood
- depictions of the Japanese Army....
-
- Sheesh.


No you are the one wrong.

Read "Samurai!" by Saburo Sakai page 138 & 156. To sum it up on page 138 says, the Japanese pilots were urged, but not ordered to wear to wear parachutes. First, the Japanese pilots thought they were bulky and hindered their movement in the cockpit, so they used them as seat cushions. There was another reason for not carrying the chuted into combat. Most of the air battles were fought over Allied territory, and bailing out would mean an willingness to be captured. Nowhere in the Japanese military code or in the traditional Bushido (Samural code) could one find the words "Prisoner of War".

Page 156 tells us that the Japanese pilots were ordered from headquarters to start flying with chutes.

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Message Edited on 10/27/0301:32AM by FA_Maddog

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 10:34 AM
elvive wrote:
- OK so why are there surviving Kamikazi pilots still
- about?

Maybe you're referring to those guys who were ordered to go kamikaze mission but luckily enough the war ended before their big day /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 10:37 AM
Been reading this thread. I recall that there was a group of Japanese Pilots who rammed incoming bombers and bailed out. I think they used that plane that looks like a 109. One pilot got a couple of US birds that way and lived to tell his grandkids. I have been using flight sims for years and I find it very very hard to ram a Cessna in FS2004. Those jap kamikaze pilots must have been either very good or very lucky to succeed.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 11:52 AM
First of all, about Japanese ace Saburo Sakai. Its SABURO not SUBARU. SUBARU is that car manufactor and has nothing to do with Saburo. Im amazed that people get it wrong even after reading his memoirs.

Second if youd actually read Sakai's memoir youd remember that he sorted these two misconceptions:

USAGE OF PARACHUTES

According to Mr. Sakai, many people in early war did not use the parachutes for the following reasons:

1) it was heavy, unreliable and most importantly it restricted the pilot to turn about in the cockpit. IE; see 6'clock effectively.

2) Most of the fights occurred over sea, which ment almost certain death or capture. Remember that "surrender" was introduced as a concept to Japanese culture only 1945.
Due to the high skill of pilots and environment, it was preferred to crash land. (Happened among ace pilots in Europe aswell)


3) The issue with parachute usage was not controlled by High command UNTIL they forced pilots to use parachutes later in the war.

KAMIKAZE

Later in the war, the americas had gained superiority over major strategic areas; Skill of pilots, AC quality, and quantity in all areas. The war was already lost.

For new japanese pilot there really was no chances. All missions were suicide missions no matter how you looked at them. It was a choise of a pilot to enter Kamikaze training - none was forced. The benefit was that since you would die anyway - you could atleast get someone with you.

All in all this is not differ so much from US doctrines in Pacific. "A plane not capable of returning home, should be crashed to enemy positions".

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:17 PM
Ick_352nd wrote:
- And don't forget the Germans did the same thing to
- stop the effective daylight raids on their
- fatherland.
-
- Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I do belive they
- were called:
-
- "WareWolfs"
-

germany had at later war special "rammbock" or "sturmbock" (both are words for ram) groups. they flew extra armored FW190. when they had wasted all their ammunition, the pilot was supposed to ram the enemy bomber and bring it down this way. they were hardly used because germany would not have been able to pay that huge amount of men and machines. of course there were individuals that made "kamikaze" attacks. ive read about one high scoring pilot that lost his family due to the bombing raids and therefore decided on one mission to end his life by ramming the incoming b17. he said something like "see you in valhalla" to his wingman before the manouver.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:57 PM
It's not possible to compare Japanese KAMIKADZE with Ramm. tactics on the Western front. My sources tell me that ramming was a last point of the attack ( very dangerous indeed ) and still the point was not to crash into another plane and destroy it as well as ramming aircraft, but to destroy an enemy plane controll surfaces by propeller blades etc. Rammjager was not supposed to die during the attack. No one way road. On contrary a kamikadze pilot went into an action with clear prospect of death in the end.

- germany had at later war special "rammbock" or
- "sturmbock" (both are words for ram) groups. they
- flew extra armored FW190. when they had wasted all
- their ammunition, the pilot was supposed to ram the
- enemy bomber and bring it down this way. they were
- hardly used because germany would not have been able
- to pay that huge amount of men and machines. of
- course there were individuals that made "kamikaze"
- attacks. ive read about one high scoring pilot that
- lost his family due to the bombing raids and
- therefore decided on one mission to end his life by
- ramming the incoming b17. he said something like
- "see you in valhalla" to his wingman before the
- manouver.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 02:11 PM
Xitter wrote:
- It's not possible to compare Japanese KAMIKADZE with
- Ramm. tactics on the Western front. My sources tell
- me that ramming was a last point of the attack (
- very dangerous indeed ) and still the point was not
- to crash into another plane and destroy it as well
- as ramming aircraft, but to destroy an enemy plane
- controll surfaces by propeller blades etc. Rammjager
- was not supposed to die during the attack. No one
- way road. On contrary a kamikadze pilot went into an
- action with clear prospect of death in the end.
-

that's the sturmboecke. the rammboecke would have been lost, it was a kind of kamikaze. although there where tweaks to help the pilot surviving the attack (additional armor) it was most likely not the case.

quote of Galland in an interview after war:

"...but we had also the Sturmjaeger, not the Rammjaeger. The Rammjaeger were born out of the wilde Sau, and I rejected this ramming theory completely, by arguing that if you are going to approach a bomber formation to such a close distance, then you can shoot two down, and still have a chance to escape, ->instead of ramming and being lost <-.."

the rammbock and sturmbock commandos consisted of volunteers as far as i know.


edit,found another, clearer quote:

"I opposed the ramming, or "self-sacrifice" mission, using the same arguments I had used with von Kornatzki, but I was duty bound to inform Goering, who shared my attitude. Shortly thereafter Goering confirmed that Hitler also opposed self-sacrifice missions for the German military.,,"



Message Edited on 10/27/0301:19PM by DeBaer.534

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 02:20 PM
Kamikaze

The japanese kamikaze pilots believes that all of there souls comming like a godlike wind out of a warrior shrine and that the soul would return to it after they are fallen in battle.

It was glorious to fall like a kamikaze in the battle and
they was told to sream "banzai" as a greating to the japanese main leader (The Kaiser) before the crash.

There were also different types of planes used for kamikaze. They used nearly every plane that could carry bombs, others where modified for bomb usage. Sometimes
they also removed the gun ammunition to reduce the weight and get a larger range.
There was also a something they called a living bomb. It was something like a missile (looking nearly like a V1) that had a pilot and could be leaded directly into the target. The japanese used similar kinds of "living bombs"
as torpedos carryed by submarines.

The main time of kamikaze was during midway and Okinava
and between april and June 1945 more than 2000 kamikaze attacks was done.
http://www.katy.isd.tenet.edu/vfw/images/kamikaze.jpg

However, only 1 to 3 percent of the pilots reached their targets but that was enough to do a heavy damage to the the US fleet.
http://www.e-scoala.ro/istorie/pic/kamikaze.gif

It is correct that a few pilots returned to thei bases (some of them up to three times) because they was send out to the ocean and search for a good target. Some of them took the coise to return and fly another mission, other
flew until the fuel was empty and died in the ocean.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 02:52 PM
ElAurens wrote:
- WRONG!
-
- Japanese pilots chose not to wear parachutes because
- of the weight savings, and it's effect on aircraft
- performance. It had nothing to do with any "code of
- conduct".
-
- Some of you guys have seen to many Hollywood
- depictions of the Japanese Army....
-
- Sheesh.


Exactly.


Edit:
Oh and by the way another reason was that the chute restricted them somewhat in moving their arms and legs, so without the chute flying was more comfortable, or at least a bit.



Message Edited on 10/27/0302:57PM by MetalGear_

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 03:11 PM
One thing should be mentioned here...kamikaze pilots were not volunteers. You were ordered in such a unit and to refuse was not an option.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 04:14 PM
Flying without the parachute is the same kind of "optimalisation", the same kind of "logic" as flying without radio or self sealing tanks. These made the airplane lighter, thus presumably more manoevrable, but proved a wrong idea in effect.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 04:19 PM
Xitter wrote:
- It's not possible to compare Japanese KAMIKADZE with
- Ramm. tactics on the Western front. My sources tell
- me that ramming was a last point of the attack (
- very dangerous indeed ) and still the point was not
- to crash into another plane and destroy it as well
- as ramming aircraft, but to destroy an enemy plane
- controll surfaces by propeller blades etc. Rammjager
- was not supposed to die during the attack. No one
- way road. On contrary a kamikadze pilot went into an
- action with clear prospect of death in the end.
-
-- germany had at later war special "rammbock" or
-- "sturmbock" (both are words for ram) groups. they
-- flew extra armored FW190. when they had wasted all
-- their ammunition, the pilot was supposed to ram the
-- enemy bomber and bring it down this way. they were
-- hardly used because germany would not have been able
-- to pay that huge amount of men and machines. of
-- course there were individuals that made "kamikaze"
-- attacks. ive read about one high scoring pilot that
-- lost his family due to the bombing raids and
-- therefore decided on one mission to end his life by
-- ramming the incoming b17. he said something like
-- "see you in valhalla" to his wingman before the
-- manouver.
-

The nearest the Luftwaffe came to organising full scale Kamikaze (or suicide, although this is not a good word to describe them) attacks were an effort that began in March 1945 and lead to the formation of Rammkommando Elbe and Sonderkommando Bienenstock.

Roughly speaking these units drew on volunteers from various units in the Luftwaffe (including training pilots) and were to be used for ramming attacks, en masse, against USAAF daylight bomber formations. Due to the superior high altitude performance of the bomber escorts, the theory was to strip virtually all the offensive armament (not always carried out) from the plane to give a performance edge over escorting fighters. The pilot was them to use his plane's prop to ram the tail fin of the B-17's and inflict fatal damage to the bomber. He would then bail out and be recovered. The pilot was not expected to deliberately sacrifice his life.

Only 1 major operation was carried out (by Rammkommando Elbe), on the 7th April 1945 against formations of the 8th Air Force. About 120 "Ramjaegers" took part, and were supported by sorties flown by Me-262's and FW-190D's. Losses were as follows:

Luftwaffe (based on 8th Air Force claims):
Rammkommando Elbe: 53
Claimed Me262: 7
Claimed FW-190D: 4

8th Air force (Actual losses):
B-17: 13
B-24: 3
P-51: 7

After Me-262 confirmed kills are accounted for (3 bombers) the Rammkommando are likely to have accounted for 13 bombers. In addition, 188 bombers were damaged, 54 being classed as "major".

An in-depth account of this is given in "The last flight of the Luftwaffe" by Adrian Weir, published by Cassell Military Paperbacks.


Another interesting (and earlier) German development was the Fi-103 (essentially a V-1 with a cockpit) which closely resembled the Yokosuka MXY-7 Okha. However development was abandoned in October 1944, and never used on missions.

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 04:36 PM
Btw, I forgot to mention, the Ramkommando's flew late version Bf-109 G-6's and G-10's.

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 06:27 PM
Ick_352nd wrote:

-
- Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I do belive they
- were called:
-
- "WareWolfs"

i guess you meant " Rammj√¬§ger"
when thoses were out of ammo , they tried to ramming an US Bomber .


those called "werwolf" was a kind of german partisans. has nothing to do with the luftwaffe /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



http://www.bayern.de/Layout/wappen.gif

Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0

Message Edited on 10/27/03‚ 05:30PM by Boandlgramer

Message Edited on 10/27/0305:31PM by Boandlgramer

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 08:13 PM
Steaks_361st wrote:
- I wonder what would have happened with the war had
- they not used kamakazes and kept the pilots and
- planes....a deep thought indeed....


Not much. The planes used were not front line fighters for the most part and the pilots.. well... not really front line either. I'm sure they foolishly threw some good planes and pilots into it, but even then, they could not have done much.

Kamikazi pilots wrecked absolute havoc on the American fleet, more than they possible could have done conventionaly.

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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 08:14 PM
About the original topic, as others have said, japanese pilots certainly bailed out when they needed to. The good ones anyway.

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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 08:25 PM
If anyone wants an insight into the Japanese mind during the war you should read
"Japan at War: An Oral History"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1565840399/103-9456007-7730242?v=glance

Several books have been written about the Kamikaze of course.

during the war with Russia in 1905 the Japanese treated enemy POWs very well. they did not consider it a disgrace to be captured. The Bushido of the war years was a perversion of the ancient warrior code much the same as the kind of extremeism Fascism created in Germany & Italy.

Oh & BTW Rashid Ali the old Iraqi leader & founder of the Ba'ath party had conections to the Fascists a well. The Death cult is still alive in some places. And always tied to the notion of a Utopia to come .

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 09:54 PM
How dare you compare the BUSHIDO and fascism.The bushido is a honorable SAMURAI code,a warriors code.SAMURAI did not kill inoccent people.The KAMIKAZE were honorable warriors that gave their lives for the emperor.And the reason JAPANESE pilots didn't ware parachuts was:Flying with out them was easier and if a JAPANESE soldier or pilot were captured it was the same as if they were killed.They were erased.Only being captured brought shame on themselves and their familys.You should read BUSHIDO written by INAZO NITOBE.

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 12:33 AM
I am glad to see some people answering tell postive thing about Japanese pilots as they desire repect as they died honorable.

Also, yeah as some people said that some Hollywood movies tell wrong things about them.

Regards
SnowLeopard

Message Edited on 10/27/0305:35PM by WereSnowleopard

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 12:40 AM
Hollywood misrepresenting?

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 01:08 AM
dont tell about something u dont know !! i saw here lots of people talking about something they ignore !! Try to read the good books about kamikaze and you'll understand ... may be !!

"i was a kamikaze" Ryuji Nagatsuka

if you want to talk about kamikaze pilots, read that book first !!!

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 12:17 AM
Steaks_361st wrote:
- I wonder what would have happened with the war had
- they not used kamakazes and kept the pilots and
- planes....a deep thought indeed....
-
__________________________________________

Same thing that would of happened if Hitler was not insane and fought a 2 front war.

Realistic now, even if they did bail, I dont believe the Japanese had the same Pilot rescue program us navy did.

So dead anyway.

<img SRC=http://www.metrocast.net/~moffre/FAFSIG.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 12:21 AM
After the first few months of the war , the Japanese High Command ordered the pilots to use there chutes because the losses had become a issue.

Othere than the Kamakaza pilots most tried to get back to there lines. Now to capture one alive would have been another story.