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z0tLek
08-18-2018, 06:41 PM
Hy...

Valkyrie, orochi, berserk....

These chars spam their light attacks like a maschine gun, you block one hit, they dont care ... btw no chance to parry the light attacks, you lose 50% of health..As a LAWBRINGER no chance.

And how its possible that their light attacks made 15,16,17 dmg and my heavy hit is only 20????

I got that feeling that once my LB gets a shoulderbash he needs a second to stand still.. in that Time if i even try a matrix move my stamina is gone...

Mirage6201
08-18-2018, 06:51 PM
It gets easier. The only thing that makes it harder is latency which can speed up attacks by up to 100ms.

Jastorm187
08-18-2018, 06:57 PM
Hy...

Valkyrie, orochi, berserk....

These chars spam their light attacks like a maschine gun, you block one hit, they dont care ... btw no chance to parry the light attacks, you lose 50% of health..As a LAWBRINGER no chance.

And how its possible that their light attacks made 15,16,17 dmg and my heavy hit is only 20????

I got that feeling that once my LB gets a shoulderbash he needs a second to stand still.. in that Time if i even try a matrix move my stamina is gone...

Berserker doesnt have light spam combos. Always LHLH repeat or all heavy. So tge heavies can be easy parries
Valkyrie, block one hit and ger combo ends unless you are OOS. Also her only really fast light is top.
Orochi only has light spam and most i find pattern their hits so find the pattern and adapt.

You are lawbringer. After blocking one, use shove and free damage. Rinse and repeat. You cant be agressive against assassins with big guys.

David_gorda
08-18-2018, 07:06 PM
Ubifail wants everyone to play 400 MS attack assassin and run away like a little ***** and collsct power ups everytime you get low on health. If you want a skill based Game i suggest you stay far away from ubifail.

DefiledDragon
08-18-2018, 11:41 PM
Berserker doesnt have light spam combos. Always LHLH repeat or all heavy. So tge heavies can be easy parries

Unless they go L H(feinted) L H(feinted) L H(feinted) ad nauseam.

Alustar.
08-19-2018, 12:25 AM
It died burn a lot of stamina, and also is not considered spam. Berserker can't spam.

DefiledDragon
08-19-2018, 02:27 AM
that's a very awkward way to light spam, also probably consumes a ton of stamina.

It's not light spam, but I've seen lots of zerks do that and it can catch you out if you're expecting the heavy and go for the parry, as I usually do like a bellend. They seem to have enough stamina to throw a few of these in succession, but maybe that will change when the perks come in and people can't build for stamina use reduction.

beerbariandh
08-19-2018, 03:49 AM
zerks don't bother me, I think cent, conq, orochi are the worst

Baturai
08-19-2018, 12:24 PM
i really dont know how orochi is doing on console, but Pc he is Trashhh..
his lights are ez parry for 40 damage.

The_B0G_
08-19-2018, 02:00 PM
i really dont know how orochi is doing on console, but Pc he is Trashhh..
his lights are ez parry for 40 damage.

On console Orochi does nothing but light attacks and GBs, if he uses the same routine every time, yeah you maybe could parry on preditiction, but I think most of them are just mashing R1 and randomly moving the right analog without even having a routine.

I love this game and probably won't ever delete it, but when Red Dead 2 releases, I'm not sure even Breach mode can save this from being shelfed due to the way the reworks and unreactable attacks are going.

It's a constant guessing game now and the more reworks, the worse it gets. I wish they found a better way to fix the defense meta, I think unblockables and soft feints along with the parry changes could have worked, but they seem pretty content with killing console versions with 400ms lights.

Devils-_-legacy
08-19-2018, 02:11 PM
On console Orochi does nothing but light attacks and GBs, if he uses the same routine every time, yeah you maybe could parry on preditiction, but I think most of them are just mashing R1 and randomly moving the right analog without even having a routine

As I play mostly assassin myself isn't that all they have though an orochi hasnt got meny options there heavys are terrible and are always parried/deflect I spend most my time deflecting or using my lights to interrupt?

The_B0G_
08-19-2018, 02:18 PM
As I play mostly assassin myself isn't that all they have though an orochi hasnt got meny options there heavys are terrible and are always parried/deflect I spend most my time deflecting or using my lights to interrupt?

He has a lot of counter attack options, he can dash back into that storm rush that is very hard to react to, at least for me it is, he has that quick backstep counter attack and he has deflects too. He has the ability to be a counter attacker and also the ability to press his advantage once he does, but no Orochi plays like that.

Instead it's light combos mixed with zones and the Kai feat, because on console it's so hard to parry these and all most people can do is block every second or third light and hope he exhausts himself before he kills you.

ishisan4902
08-19-2018, 02:25 PM
So what should an orochi do? What are his viable moves? Everyone is saying he should not use light he has 500ms light only LA that is 400ms is second light in chain almost all characters have 500ms lights even non assasin class has heck warden has 500ms side lights with confirmed second light on hit so why only crying about orochi. He has on UB no soft feints no HA full roster all have a bash or UB in their moves only two characters don't have ok and orochi.l

The_B0G_
08-19-2018, 02:36 PM
So what should an orochi do? What are his viable moves? Everyone is saying he should not use light he has 500ms light only LA that is 400ms is second light in chain almost all characters have 500ms lights even non assasin class has heck warden has 500ms side lights with confirmed second light on hit so why only crying about orochi. He has on UB no soft feints no HA full roster all have a bash or UB in their moves only two characters don't have ok and orochi.l

Other characters have a fast light, but Orochi has a 400 ms zone that can be hit at any time and can move right back into his light spam combo, I really shouldn't even have to explain the difference between Orochi and Warden, when was the last time you fought a Warden and he killed you by non stop light attacks, without stopping to block or dodge?

Kai feat just makes Orochi worse, it can be popped once every fight, by far the most overpowered first feat in the game, none others come close.

His viable moves I already mentioned in my previous reply, the only part of his move set anyone uses since his rework is lights and zone on console, because its safe and easy to do.

ishisan4902
08-19-2018, 02:48 PM
zone which drains most of his stamina. Please use orochi and do what you describe after using zone try to light spam as you said and see what happens. you where killed by nonstop light attack by an orochi how can he do that when only 2nd light in chain is 400ms third light is 500ms and is easy parry hell even just blocking is enough if you just block first LA chain stops devs already said second light is not supposed to be parryable on reaction only on prediction. Ok if his second light is the problem devs should put it to 500ms but atleast give him some UB to open up turtles.

The_B0G_
08-19-2018, 02:55 PM
zone which drains most of his stamina. Please use orochi and do what you describe after using zone try to light spam as you said and see what happens. you where killed by nonstop light attack by an orochi how can he do that when only 2nd light in chain is 400ms third light is 500ms and is easy parry hell even just blocking is enough if you just block first LA chain stops devs already said second light is not supposed to be parryable on reaction only on prediction. Ok if his second light is the problem devs should put it to 500ms but atleast give him some UB to open up turtles.

I see Orochi use his zone in between his lights all the time, so I'm not sure what to tell ya there. Like I said earlier, I can block every 2nd or 3rd attack, the problem isn't that every single light attack is getting through, it's that a good portion of the heroes have no way to stop the spam and counter attack, go try to fight an Orochi with Highlander or another character with slow attacks.

I legit stopped using my Rep 20 HL after the Orochi rework, short of landing a crushing counter, you're screwed, and even then it doesn't get you much.

ishisan4902
08-19-2018, 02:56 PM
Why would a warden light spam when he has so many viable moves to use he has a bash he has unblockable finisher he has fast zone that can be chain to UB finisher he has charged bash that has good tracking give the orochi same move and im sure no orochi is going to use light spam. its the same as before everybody is crying for double top light nerf for orochi when that is all he can do only top light and zone now its the same only its light chain and zone atleast be fair he is already a hated character to play against because they say that he is too fast when this is not true at all but for those playing him it leaves a bad taste when you win because everybody is saying you are a light spammer.

ishisan4902
08-19-2018, 03:07 PM
I dont know what to tell you try it and see try zone and then use light chain if you can light spam as you described and see how your stamina is. if you can block 2nd light you already stopped chain how can he do 3rd. HL is good counter to orochi he has HA on OS orochi cant trade you will always win what characters is bad matchup against orochi only bad matchup i know is glad because of reflex guard decay. People say he is too fast but only his side light speed was changed which before was 600ms side lights which was the worst for any assasin no assasin had slow side lights i think even WL side was faster at 500ms so they just balanced him in that part of his moveset. I understand im not saying that he should have the 400ms 2nd light but if your taking that away atleast give him something to compensate and not just another nerf.

Devils-_-legacy
08-19-2018, 03:18 PM
He has a lot of counter attack options, he can dash back into that storm rush that is very hard to react to, at least for me it is, he has that quick backstep counter attack and he has deflects too. He has the ability to be a counter attacker and also the ability to press his advantage once he does, but no Orochi plays like that.

Instead it's light combos mixed with zones and the Kai feat, because on console it's so hard to parry these and all most people can do is block every second or third light and hope he exhausts himself before he kills you.
I'll try go through bit by bit this is just my opinon
The storm rush doesn't work at my level unless I cancel it to gb or lights.
I'll admit I like the back dash light after the warden rework it's probably my most used move. the deflect light are the only one that works the heavy can be side dodged for a free gb unfortunately unless your against someone unfamilar with orochi. the zone ledges so it's one of his most usefull tools on a heavy parry.
tbh tho the Kai feat is a waste as it's gives them a huge revenge gain and only rewards the user with a aoe or double top lights but a word of advise don't try and parry block instead as the second lights parry window is tiny compared to the first and last in the light chain so always go for them

The_B0G_
08-19-2018, 03:19 PM
Why would a warden light spam when he has so many viable moves to use he has a bash he has unblockable finisher he has fast zone that can be chain to UB finisher he has charged bash that has good tracking give the orochi same move and im sure no orochi is going to use light spam. its the same as before everybody is crying for double top light nerf for orochi when that is all he can do only top light and zone now its the same only its light chain and zone atleast be fair he is already a hated character to play against because they say that he is too fast when this is not true at all but for those playing him it leaves a bad taste when you win because everybody is saying you are a light spammer.

I guess feinting and using mind games like 90% of the rest of the heroes isn't viable to Orochi mains, so they light spam, and yes he is too fast, lots of other characters do have fast lights, but they can't endlessly blend one light into another without having to recover, most heroes have a small recovery after using combos, Orochi keeps going.

This video is a perfect example of how orochi is played on console. Light spam light spam light spam gb light spam.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KI7TyrxnJQE

The_B0G_
08-19-2018, 03:25 PM
I dont know what to tell you try it and see try zone and then use light chain if you can light spam as you described and see how your stamina is. if you can block 2nd light you already stopped chain how can he do 3rd. HL is good counter to orochi he has HA on OS orochi cant trade you will always win what characters is bad matchup against orochi only bad matchup i know is glad because of reflex guard decay. People say he is too fast but only his side light speed was changed which before was 600ms side lights which was the worst for any assasin no assasin had slow side lights i think even WL side was faster at 500ms so they just balanced him in that part of his moveset. I understand im not saying that he should have the 400ms 2nd light but if your taking that away atleast give him something to compensate and not just another nerf.

If you can't beat a HL with an Orochi, I'm not sure what to tell you, I can beat HL easy with just one fast light attack on my character, HL is too slow to be viable, if you pressure him and keep close, he really can't do anything, he's way too slow, the best he can hope for against someone with fast attacks is to trade lights every once in a while, which gets him no where. His HA on heavies doesn't activate until he's pretty far into his attack, so light attacks negate his defensive heavy HA completely. He also only gets HA on his second light in his Light Light combo, so if you tradeon his first light, he still gets staggered.

Like I said, besides a crushing counter, HL is defenseless against light spam.

Devils-_-legacy
08-19-2018, 03:28 PM
I guess feinting and using mind games like 90% of the rest of the heroes isn't viable to Orochi mains, so they light spam, and yes he is too fast, lots of other characters do have fast lights, but they can't endlessly blend one light into another without having to recover, most heroes have a small recovery after using combos, Orochi keeps going.

This video is a perfect example of how orochi is played on console. Light spam light spam light spam gb light spam.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KI7TyrxnJQE

If that's how your opponents play and your losing to it then it's just of issue of learning the hero properly

The_B0G_
08-19-2018, 03:35 PM
If that's how your opponents play and your losing to it then it's just of issue of learning the hero properly

I don't play duels, its too boring and that guy isn't even an Orochi main, play against a high rep orochi and try to tell me light spam on console isn't ridiculous. Which platform do you play on?

ishisan4902
08-19-2018, 03:36 PM
People not feinting with characters is not characters fault that is players fault why should anyone dictate how other people play i do not understand this ego massaging notion that they are better even if they lose to another person. no character has seamless combo pk, shaman, aramusha, kensei, valk to name a few im below average at best at this game i die lots of times to all characters but thats on me i should get better pk and shaman even have a bleed in their combos. and he is not to fast please explain how he is too fast when the only fast attack he has that is 400ms is his 2nd LA in chain all attacks are all reactable or same with other characters if you want to slow down his attacks then all characters should also have their attacks slowed.

ishisan4902
08-19-2018, 03:42 PM
Asking for nerf after nerf for characters will only lead to boring game already devs are making the game better by speeding up all characters and all characters will be touched on i fell you if your main has not been reworked but nerfing characters again before all characters has been reworked is backwards thinking and will make balancing the game harder for devs lets just wait after everybody has been touched then balance again shugoki, WL, LB, Raider first all OG characters then they should balance or rework again what should be changed.

The_B0G_
08-19-2018, 03:48 PM
People not feinting with characters is not characters fault that is players fault why should anyone dictate how other people play i do not understand this ego massaging notion that they are better even if they lose to another person. no character has seamless combo pk, shaman, aramusha, kensei, valk to name a few im below average at best at this game i die lots of times to all characters but thats on me i should get better pk and shaman even have a bleed in their combos. and he is not to fast please explain how he is too fast when the only fast attack he has that is 400ms is his 2nd LA in chain all attacks are all reactable or same with other characters if you want to slow down his attacks then all characters should also have their attacks slowed.

You're right its not the characters fault you don't have to feint, it's the devs, the fact that you don't NEED to feint like the other characters is the issue, you only have to spam light attacks, because it's safe, easy, and wins fights.

Devils-_-legacy
08-19-2018, 03:50 PM
I don't play duels, its too boring and that guy isn't even an Orochi main, play against a high rep orochi and try to tell me light spam on console isn't ridiculous. Which platform do you play on?
I can relate I hate duels I assumed it was you In the video
I play it on xbox and pc sometimes but as it's not shared progression mainly ps4 and unless my opponents got a high ping rate not really a issue for me I get killed by slow attacks more then the fast ones as I have 0 paitence

The_B0G_
08-19-2018, 03:56 PM
Asking for nerf after nerf for characters will only lead to boring game already devs are making the game better by speeding up all characters and all characters will be touched on i fell you if your main has not been reworked but nerfing characters again before all characters has been reworked is backwards thinking and will make balancing the game harder for devs lets just wait after everybody has been touched then balance again shugoki, WL, LB, Raider first all OG characters then they should balance or rework again what should be changed.

I just think that if you have all these new reworks getting 400 ms lights, that heavy, slow heroes should have better hyper armor to fight against people who mindlessly spam lights. HL is a good example, he has HA on his heavies, but it activates so late into his attack that it is basically useless for trading against light spam.

I don't think he should get nerfed, he should have been reworked properly to begin with, not just light spam 2.0, warden and Kensei got really good reworks, Orochi just made matters worse, it changed him from being nothing but top light and zone spam, to being light spam all over plus zone. It wasn't a good rework, and its cancerous on console.

ishisan4902
08-19-2018, 03:59 PM
This is not true attacking and spamming light attacks is not safe at all you put yourself in danger of being parried or OOS by being blocked. Feinting for other characters is also not required only charcters with viable feint are ones with soft feint and orochi does not have this. he has only hard feints only soft feint he had and it was taken out of his kit was storm rush to gb soft feint which is also a nerf. So what should he feint into he has no opener so no pressure to open just blocking opponent just like problem with pk no openers but atleast she has soft feint bleed which also only comes from top so its possible to just block this still no problem to just play defensively.

The_B0G_
08-19-2018, 04:00 PM
I can relate I hate duels I assumed it was you In the video
I play it on xbox and pc sometimes but as it's not shared progression mainly ps4 and unless my opponents got a high ping rate not really a issue for me I get killed by slow attacks more then the fast ones as I have 0 paitence

Lol you bought the game 3 times? You're hardcore. Add me if you wanna play some Dom on ps4, PSN is same as on here.

Devils-_-legacy
08-19-2018, 04:06 PM
It's like cod with swords I had to lol I will add you later and to the other guy how do you play orochi with out feinting and not die? It's the only way I can bait a deflect or get a light in.

The_B0G_
08-19-2018, 04:06 PM
This is not true attacking and spamming light attacks is not safe at all you put yourself in danger of being parried or OOS by being blocked. Feinting for other characters is also not required only charcters with viable feint are ones with soft feint and orochi does not have this. he has only hard feints only soft feint he had and it was taken out of his kit was storm rush to gb soft feint which is also a nerf. So what should he feint into he has no opener so no pressure to open just blocking opponent just like problem with pk no openers but atleast she has soft feint bleed which also only comes from top so its possible to just block this still no problem to just play defensively.

Feinting for other characters is not required?... feinting for pretty much every character is required, at the skill level I'm at, heavy attacks are parried 90% of the time, HL lights are parried pretty often as well.

I'm not sure how you think light spam on orochi isn't too fast to react to, when you're playing at a level where feinting isn't absolutely necessary.

ishisan4902
08-19-2018, 04:07 PM
agree with you on bad rework but asking for nerf right now is bad move maybe after all OG cast is done and marching fire update has come then lets balance. I also wish orochi, pk and valk rework was better like kensei and warden but i still have hope on this game been playing since season 1 and i think ill still be here when servers close there is no game like this out there. this game brings out the salt in all people maybe because the games become really personal well thats how i feel especially when i lose hahaha just want to thrash and rant but after i just say that I just got to get better.

Devils-_-legacy
08-19-2018, 04:13 PM
Its different from console to pc tho I will say that bogs on console it's a lot harder to read the attacks even some of the animations look jumpy and if I remember correctly your on pc and tbf that feels like a different game better animations ect the only trade off is a tiny player base

The_B0G_
08-19-2018, 04:13 PM
agree with you on bad rework but asking for nerf right now is bad move maybe after all OG cast is done and marching fire update has come then lets balance. I also wish orochi, pk and valk rework was better like kensei and warden but i still have hope on this game been playing since season 1 and i think ill still be here when servers close there is no game like this out there. this game brings out the salt in all people maybe because the games become really personal well thats how i feel especially when i lose hahaha just want to thrash and rant but after i just say that I just got to get better.

I should have been clear, while I do think his light spam should be nerfed, I think he needs more in other areas, if certain other moves and combos paid off better, then light spam wouldn't be Orochi's best option. He needs a rebalance, not a straight up nerf.

The_B0G_
08-19-2018, 04:17 PM
Its different from console to pc tho I will say that bogs on console it's a lot harder to read the attacks even some of the animations look jumpy and if I remember correctly your on pc and tbf that feels like a different game better animations ect the only trade off is a tiny player base

Light spam has always been an issue for console, I assumed everyone talking in the thread was talking from consoles point of view, I heard on PC it's not bad numerous times. So I can see where he's coming from now.

ishisan4902
08-19-2018, 04:19 PM
sorry hard feinting is for baiting but like for pk raider aramusha kensei i dont know all soft feints they mostly use this its not that hard feinting is not used i dont know how to say this and explain sorry english is not my native language but most viable feints are soft feints because they are faster and harder to react to i think even HL has soft feint which most HL use from OS top to side UB i think.

ishisan4902
08-19-2018, 04:22 PM
I understand and support this console players in this forum always say that is is harder to read moves because of 30 fps but if we slow one character all characters should also be slowed the same and that would be fair.

The_B0G_
08-19-2018, 04:23 PM
sorry hard feinting is for baiting but like for pk raider aramusha kensei i dont know all soft feints they mostly use this its not that hard feinting is not used i dont know how to say this and explain sorry english is not my native language but most viable feints are soft feints because they are faster and harder to react to i think even HL has soft feint which most HL use from OS top to side UB i think.

A hard feint followed by a GB or a light still works for me, more so the light than the GB but still, I don't play on PC but are hard feints really that useless on there? On console they work great.

Devils-_-legacy
08-19-2018, 04:26 PM
Yeah pc a different ball game spamming lights on pc is just asking for a parry hard feints don't work as well I'd watch some pc game play you will see a massive difference when compared to console.

ishisan4902 don't worry I'm used to people getting a tad confused on the fourm it's harder to write when its not in your native language but that makes sense now

ishisan4902
08-19-2018, 04:29 PM
hard feint to GB is nothing very easy to cgb because no threat he has no UB or bash so just block and cgb let him oos to attack, with perfect blocking cant open you up if i use LB just block shove light if playing conq or WL if he is light spamming FB counter. Im low level even in low level very easy to cgb mostly i GB my opponent if they dodge.

ishisan4902
08-19-2018, 04:35 PM
thank you i try hard to explaiin but sometimes i dont know what word to use. Because i love this game and i want this game to get better media most new players looking at forum and seeing bad review on game are put off because of this even my friends stopped playing with all bad rep the game gets. as you said on pc hard feinting is there but most viable move for most characters is their soft feints. Kensei and Berserker is good example of this Top light feint to side and berserker heavy to dodge and heavy to light i think.

Baturai
08-19-2018, 07:21 PM
Orochi is weak af :D
Vanguards and Hybrids have better values than Orochi
Fullguard
gb invunerablitiy... and Especially after standartized dodge. Dodge recovery.

Riptide ? Parry ready tool
his Sidedeflects ? Joke Because Iframes have priority over Deflect window Parrying is more safer. side heavy parry attempt is orochis worst nightmare... because of heavy gb vulnerablitly, his defense is weak af. but he is forced to Turtle :rolleyes: and "COUNTER"
Attack ahahahah
Zephyrflash strike ? Parry Ready Tool
Side Heavies... :D you get gbroken halfway
Stormrush... just side light befor he hits you or simply block... dont try to parry...
Really bad Stamina.. he cant even fully combo because blocking drains all of his stamina.

If -100ms on Light follow up (12 damage) Lightattack is the only difference that makes Orochi Op compared to others ......






i really dont know what to say ... i am speeachless :rolleyes:

There are heroes with a ****load of damage for little effort.
perma ha
spamm bash
huge range
Unblockables
insane guard recovery...
and and and...

but orochi is your Butthurt ?

The_B0G_
08-19-2018, 08:23 PM
Orochi is weak af :D
Vanguards and Hybrids have better values than Orochi
Fullguard
gb invunerablitiy... and Especially after standartized dodge. Dodge recovery.

Riptide ? Parry ready tool
his Sidedeflects ? Joke Because Iframes have priority over Deflect window Parrying is more safer. side heavy parry attempt is orochis worst nightmare... because of heavy gb vulnerablitly, his defense is weak af. but he is forced to Turtle :rolleyes: and "COUNTER"
Attack ahahahah
Zephyrflash strike ? Parry Ready Tool
Side Heavies... :D you get gbroken halfway
Stormrush... just side light befor he hits you or simply block... dont try to parry...
Really bad Stamina.. he cant even fully combo because blocking drains all of his stamina.

If -100ms on Light follow up (12 damage) Lightattack is the only difference that makes Orochi Op compared to others ......






i really dont know what to say ... i am speeachless :rolleyes:

There are heroes with a ****load of damage for little effort.
perma ha
spamm bash
huge range
Unblockables
insane guard recovery...
and and and...

but orochi is your Butthurt ?

Light spam has always been the butthurt of console, did you think reworking a character and making them a light spam monster would be welcomed by all with open arms?

If you're on PC, as we've all agreed on, it's not an issue.