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View Full Version : Concerns on the perk system



TSCDescon
08-18-2018, 02:09 AM
It sounds good on paper, but you still have insane FEATS that are yet to be dealt with; and now, you're planning to implement a perk system that will eventually, if not, break your game even more. Is this game becoming Call of Duty and Rainbow 6? When I think of perks on FOR HONOR, I think of enhancements to the your feats, the buffs you will get all over the map (4v4), buffs on a certain move of a specific character, and something that will turn your character into a ultra instinct Goku. That is NOT good; not to mention revenge as well.

#feelingworried

Edit: Feats are already perks. Don't break your game even more devies.

CandleInTheDark
08-18-2018, 04:46 AM
We'll have to see how it comes out and if each perk is indeed less than a level one feat in terms of power. The ones we know of so far either give (or increase) a small shield, increase speed under certain conditions or trigger a little health under certain conditions, we also know that some later perks are more situational, e.g. they come after a parry. It's going to be a matter of how powerful the ones we don't know about are, since the ones we know of don't seem overly powered and the stated intent is that these hold up against any other latterly unlocked set of perks.

MarshalMoriarty
08-18-2018, 05:17 AM
Surely some kind of trial period would have been more advisable. Its a huge change to make after so long.

CandleInTheDark
08-18-2018, 05:55 AM
Surely some kind of trial period would have been more advisable. Its a huge change to make after so long.

So being completely transparent, I have been against gear stats and anything that gives an advantage for time spent since day one, so I am hardly the most balanced on it. I still think level up should be cosmetic only but if we have to have something, this sounds a lot more palatable even if rep grinds for more options still exist.

The team that worked on this have worked on this as their big project for the year, so I don't doubt they have tested it hard, but yes it will all be about what happens when the players get their hands on the new system.

MarshalMoriarty
08-18-2018, 06:12 AM
In the same spirit of honesty, I'm an aggressive player who mains the heavier characters. I'm very concerned at the implications of losing my stamina management and exhaustion recovery gear, especially with SBing Conqs, Cents, Kiai spamming Orochis etc around.

I'm also worried this will be yet another advantage for Assassins, since they have naturally good stamina management.

NHLGoldenKnight
08-18-2018, 06:59 AM
In the same spirit of honesty, I'm an aggressive player who mains the heavier characters. I'm very concerned at the implications of losing my stamina management and exhaustion recovery gear, especially with SBing Conqs, Cents, Kiai spamming Orochis etc around.

I'm also worried this will be yet another advantage for Assassins, since they have naturally good stamina management.

Same here! I play usually as a big guy and I like to be aggressive. Losing my stamina and exhaustion stats will hurt me badly to the point that I may just give up on the game completely. I am very worried about the perks and I don't see a point in changing gear system completely after players spend so much time and coins to build their hero according to their needs.

So what now? Almost 700 hours into the game and I am being screwed?

Big thumb down for Ubisoft and developers regarding this decision. They could have just made small changes to gear system but instead they will force players to grind again for every hero I play with. F..... disappointed, that's what I am.

Armosias
08-18-2018, 09:04 AM
You won't have to "grind again for every hero you play with" because they're not planning to remove actual gear, if I remember well you will be able to choose the on your currently equiped gear for each hero, while the perks for the remaining equipment will be randomized(gear level took in account of course)

BTTrinity
08-18-2018, 01:49 PM
I find it hilarious the most recent patch nerfed a lot of feats, but didnt touch the most problematic one (The very balanced 200 damage catapult)

Yeah, perks are definitely concerning.

Illyrian_King
08-18-2018, 01:58 PM
Is that a joke? ;b

Stats were completely irrelevant and Perks are even less.

This is the last bastion of slightly being able to adjust your Hero a bit. Since we can not change weapons or adjust the moveset or anything.

NHLGoldenKnight
08-18-2018, 05:58 PM
You won't have to "grind again for every hero you play with" because they're not planning to remove actual gear, if I remember well you will be able to choose the on your currently equiped gear for each hero, while the perks for the remaining equipment will be randomized(gear level took in account of course)

Even if that is true, they are still going to change all other armor kits and weapons that I keep in inventory and give them some random perks which could make them usless for me. Also, is there confirmation that gear stats are staying as they are? If they do, that is something I can deal with. But if they are removing them, then it is a pure rip off since we did upgrade everything with steel which can be translated to real money.

UbiJurassic
08-18-2018, 10:06 PM
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and concerns regarding the Perk system coming with Marching Fire. I definitely understand that the Perk system seems a bit nebulous right now, but we will be doing our best to assuage any concerns you may have or better address any questions you have as we get closer to the start of Marching Fire. I'll be sure to forward the thoughts shared here to the team.

MarshalMoriarty
08-19-2018, 01:06 AM
Look, I appreciate that the mods don't have all the answers and things may still be in flux, not nailed down yet etc. But please try to understand the anxiety this is causing to Heavy\Heavy Hybrid players when we know so little. If this change hammers our stamina management then we're screwed. And light spammers, assassins etc will barely feel any difference.

Not knowing if this is going to be the case is making it impossible to play or care. I feel like the Sword of Damocles is hanging over me.

DefiledDragon
08-19-2018, 02:20 AM
Not knowing if this is going to be the case is making it impossible to play or care. I feel like the Sword of Damocles is hanging over me.

Surely you mean the Sword of Donmaclass?

MarshalMoriarty
08-19-2018, 02:52 AM
I'd need to be sleeping in a room with a very high ceiling if that was the case.

CandleInTheDark
08-19-2018, 05:52 AM
In the same spirit of honesty, I'm an aggressive player who mains the heavier characters. I'm very concerned at the implications of losing my stamina management and exhaustion recovery gear, especially with SBing Conqs, Cents, Kiai spamming Orochis etc around.

I'm also worried this will be yet another advantage for Assassins, since they have naturally good stamina management.

Ah yeah I can see the concern. I don't run into it as much with shugoki but since I boost zones/defend tributes when I can catch a tribute (nothing sadder than seeing shugoki even slower) I tend to worry more about external blocks and either die or reach revenge 1v3 before worrying about stamina. Can be a pain, also leads to some epic moments, I had three enemies decide screw this over getting my team's last held tribute when I hit revenge a second or third time and just leave. I do hope the devs keep an eye on stamina and if they need to make changes can find a way without making it ridiculous in duel. Maybe a global stamina buff in objective modes.

My issue has always been how the goalposts have moved for newcomers with each gear rarity. It was rep 3, now it is rep 7 (or higher for refined). With champion status if people can get that the time per rep is around what it was in the first double xp weekend to balance that and that is better but still 7 reps seems a long way away starting out and that's if you don't want more than one character for team composition. This might not be an issue low rep but it certainly is higher rep and the thing there is that unless everyone is on the same gear every marginal victory or defeat that happens 1v1, every single one, is down to the gear difference, the extra attack and defence percentages or attack you were able to throw or being first to regain stamina, and to me that doesn't feel good whether I am on the winning or losing end of that. Since the devs don't want matchmaking after character select because of team composition that isn't going to change in the current system.

Dry.Fish
08-19-2018, 07:29 AM
At this point in the game stamina consumption shouldn't be a problem. Especially with this new inferno event. Play duels or something learn your character.

VampireDovah
08-19-2018, 08:15 AM
I agree too gear should just be cosmetic, new players don't have a chance against high to medium rep heros just because of gear stats

NHLGoldenKnight
08-19-2018, 08:38 AM
Well, I was able to level Raider to rep 5 with solid gear stats in just less than 2 weeks. So it maybe true that new players do have disadvantage it is also true that as you play you to get better and better gear and disadvantage is quickly decreasing.

For instance, my Raider doesn't have same gear stats as top Raiders but it is still twice as good as it was when I just started, just two weeks ago.

KiahsRevenge
08-20-2018, 05:09 AM
I for one am excited! More even gameplay without having to worry about max damage or max stamina recovery Ect. On the flip side this could totally screw me and everyone else who has put umpteen hours into your gear. Maybe you could allow us to choose which perks we get? At least on the gear that we have maxed out? Either way change is always hard. We shall see.

We.the.North
08-20-2018, 07:44 PM
- Perks is another cash grab by Ubisoft wanting us to buy steel so we can mix and match the perks we want.

- Based on Uplay, I spent 55% of my time ingame and 45% of my time in match making and in equipment menus / faction war screen. 45% of my time wasted by unfun and unnecessary stuff.

- We saw perks activating "on hero kills". Prepare to be griefed by your teamates coming in to "assist you" while taking the last hit.

- We can probably expect perks activating "on hero revive". Prepare to be griefed by your teamates coming to "get the renown" from revives while you could have done something super good with your revive perk.

Perk is BADLY DESIGNED. Dumb, and waste of time.

Dev have absolutely no clue what they are doing.

SaschoS
08-20-2018, 08:01 PM
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and concerns regarding the Perk system coming with Marching Fire. I definitely understand that the Perk system seems a bit nebulous right now, but we will be doing our best to assuage any concerns you may have or better address any questions you have as we get closer to the start of Marching Fire. I'll be sure to forward the thoughts shared here to the team.

Tell your friends to stop doing stupid decisions. We already know perks will be broken (where are PTR's for this BS). Just another layer of crap devs will have to fix. And please if you can give a nice glove-slap to producer from community

NHLGoldenKnight
08-20-2018, 08:19 PM
Will someone at least confirm that gear stats are here to stay? I don't care if perks are added on top of that but after spending thousands and thousands of steel to adjust my heroes to my needs, taking that away would be rip off of a worst kind.

Also, I am not the only one whi thinks how feats we have are already perks, just with different name. Adding extra layer on top of gear and feats seems to much in a game that should focus on melee fight proficiency. Ok, I get it. Perks is tacticool term in most of FPS games but still.....

DefiledDragon
08-20-2018, 08:24 PM
Will someone at least confirm that gear stats are here to stay? I don't care if perks are added on top of that but after spending thousands and thousands of steel to adjust my heroes to my needs, taking that away would be rip off of a worst kind.

Also, I am not the only one whi thinks how feats we have are already perks, just with different name. Adding extra layer on top of gear and feats seems to much in a game that should focus on melee fight proficiency. Ok, I get it. Perks is tacticool term in most of FPS games but still.....

I'm pretty sure that they said in the live stream that gear stats were being removed and replaced with perks. Go watch that part of the stream again, I'm sure they talked about this.

NHLGoldenKnight
08-20-2018, 08:47 PM
That's the way I understood it, but some of the forum members claim that gear stats are here to stay. I would be really nice get more info in written.

Because if gear stats are getting removed, not just by name but function as well, then we are talking about straight rip off which they shouldn't get away with. Some players invested real money, others time and in-game steel which also translates to real money. If you pay for something, that should stay there for you.

Imagine Rockstar removing vehicles or clothes you bought for your character? Or Gran Turismo Sport removing modifications you bought for your cars?

Everyone is focused on new faction and Marching Fire update but all I see is the perk rip off potential and how well it is under the radar. Maybe update title should be Ubisoft Marching towards your Wallet?

DefiledDragon
08-20-2018, 08:51 PM
That's the way I understood it, but some of the forum members claim that gear stats are here to stay. I would be really nice get more info in written.

Because if gear stats are getting removed, not just by name but function as well, then we are talking about straight rip off which they shouldn't get away with. Some players invested real money, others time and in-game steel which also translates to real money. If you pay for something, that should stay there for you.

Imagine Rockstar removing vehicles or clothes you bought for your character? Or Gran Turismo Sport removing modifications you bought for your cars?

Yeah, I agree. I've only recently come back to the game and since coming back I've spent a fair bit of steel (no real money though thank god) on upgrading my gear for my chosen build and when they announced the perk system I was, let's say, less than excited. I'm hoping there will be some measure of fairness in the way the perks are translated from existing builds, but it remains to be seen. I'm not particularly enthusiastic for the upcoming perk system either and it seems we're not alone in that.

HazelrahFirefly
08-20-2018, 08:51 PM
Gear stats are entirely gone come October 16th. This is explicitly stated on the WD.

I never had much of an issue with stats, but I do look forward to revenge builds being a thing of the past. Without stats the characters can be even more balanced and yet more unique at the same time (in theory... if the perks are done right...)

DefiledDragon
08-20-2018, 08:52 PM
Gear stats are entirely gone come October 16th. This is explicitly stated on the WD.

I never had much of an issue with stats, but I do look forward to revenge builds being a thing of the past. Without stats the characters can be even more balanced and yet more unique at the same time (in theory... if the perks are done right...)

I can see it now, level 3 perk, gain revenge at 200% the normal rate. Level 4 perk, revenge defence and attack increased by 200%

;)

HazelrahFirefly
08-20-2018, 10:39 PM
i can see it now, level 3 perk, gain revenge at 200% the normal rate. Level 4 perk, revenge defence and attack increased by 200%

;)

o

m

g

DefiledDragon
08-20-2018, 10:52 PM
o

m

g

The truly terrifying thing is that it feels like it might happen, or something like it.

NHLGoldenKnight
08-22-2018, 12:34 AM
The truly terrifying thing is that it feels like it might happen, or something like it.

Well I just watched video of a new mode and heroes and I did saw a perk called Constant Revenge. Dear Lord.

Btw, we still don't have an answer from Ubi?

1. How in the hell you think you can just take away upgrades that were bought with real money or equivalent of in game real money?

2. In what way do you plan to compensate players who spent huge amounts of money and a lot of time to upgrade hero according to their needs?

Kryltic
08-22-2018, 11:37 AM
I'm going to be really annoyed if players aren't heavily compensated for any maxed out gear we have. I have multiple max refined characters that, if I end up with useless random "perks" that I don't want, I'll be thoroughly p*ssed.

The last time you changed how gear works I had to redo multiple characters. If you do it this time, Im having to redo almost every character depending on which "perks" I randomly get.

NinjaRonin85
08-22-2018, 02:41 PM
I just watched a video for the new arcade mode, looks like it's 60 something perks being added, the scary ones I noticed were drain stamina on attack as it will make raider and cent a pain to deal with and I think the other one was stun on heavy attack, i can see these 2 being very popular lol.

voiddp
08-22-2018, 03:10 PM
New mode is not connected to gear perks.
There are buffs debuffs in new mode. To make PvE challenging and difficult
There are perks for gear for PvP modes. They will not repeat cheater like buffs\debuffs from PvE and will be less powerful than even current lvl1 of hero perks

HazelrahFirefly
08-22-2018, 03:45 PM
New mode is not connected to gear perks.
There are buffs debuffs in new mode. To make PvE challenging and difficult
There are perks for gear for PvP modes. They will not repeat cheater like buffs\debuffs from PvE and will be less powerful than even current lvl1 of hero perks

I might have the exact number wrong, but I believe they said there are only 17 or 27 perks being added to the PvP (perks on gear). I dont think we have to be as fearful as this thread is suggesting.

CandleInTheDark
08-22-2018, 03:51 PM
I might have the exact number wrong, but I believe they said there are only 17 or 27 perks being added to the PvP (perks on gear). I dont think we have to be as fearful as this thread is suggesting.

21 perks, 7 offensive, 7 defensive, 7 support based.

HazelrahFirefly
08-22-2018, 03:52 PM
21 perks, 7 offensive, 7 defensive, 7 support based.

Ahhh that's right. Thanks. At least I was surrounding the number?

CandleInTheDark
08-22-2018, 03:54 PM
Ahhh that's right. Thanks. At least I was surrounding the number?

Lol yes, I had to look it up to be sure, fortunately I wrote it on the recap that week.

NHLGoldenKnight
08-22-2018, 06:18 PM
I'm going to be really annoyed if players aren't heavily compensated for any maxed out gear we have. I have multiple max refined characters that, if I end up with useless random "perks" that I don't want, I'll be thoroughly p*ssed.

The last time you changed how gear works I had to redo multiple characters. If you do it this time, Im having to redo almost every character depending on which "perks" I randomly get.

It is funny how they are still charging steel for upgrades although they are going to remove those stats. Pretty shady if you ask me. Players had spent who knows hod much steel and real money collectively (probably measured in bilions) just so some dev in Ubisoft can take all of that away, replaced it, and then charge for new upgrades, heroes and other content. What about OUR money?

Generally, I don't have issue if they remove gear stats if:

1. We are getting compasated based on fair and logical process

2. There are still options for heavy class to improve its stamina management

But they are being really quiet about this and it is obvious that they are trying to go under the radar because everyone's attention is on new heroes. But for us 4v4 players, there is rip off coming our way, and it is big one.

Klingentaenz3r
08-23-2018, 09:55 AM
Tell your friends to stop doing stupid decisions. We already know perks will be broken (where are PTR's for this BS). Just another layer of crap devs will have to fix. And please if you can give a nice glove-slap to producer from community

I noticed that on steam there is already an additional game slot that comes with the free copy base game you can get there atm. It is called "Public Test Server 3" (so PTS No3) and comes in the middle of September. So... I would highly assume that the perk system would be subject to test there as well as probably their changes to OOS and perhaps even the two remaining new heroes and mayhaps reworks?
We will surely hear about it soon (I bet today on Warrior's Den).

But honestly I am quite concerned about the new system as well (since it comes from Team Bio and I am usually not a fan of their work and tastes in the slightest) if the new perk system is that c ra p what we saw in the Arcarde Mode with all that fire **** and stuff I would not be pleased at all, not at all. Total overkill with those effects and additional visuals. I doubt however that all perks we saw in the acarde mode would be available in 4v4 multiplayer.

In my opinion they should keep it as subtle as possible and try to use visuals that don't look like a rip off from a sci-fi game. Same goes for the general UI of course that is highly critized publicly (read through a couple of reviews lately and found it to be a reoccuring point that)

Xil_h
08-23-2018, 01:49 PM
For all the whiners, big mouthes, crybaby... Some information you agreed on:



9. CHANGES TO THIS EULA OR TO THE PRODUCT.
(...)
UBISOFT may modify the Product for any reason or without any specific reason, at any time and at its entire discretion, in particular for technical reasons such as updates, maintenance operations and/or resets to improve and/or optimize the Product. You agree that the Product may install or download the modifications automatically. You agree that UBISOFT may stop to support previous versions of the Product upon availability of an updated version. UBISOFT’s channel partners and associated service providers shall have no obligation to furnish any maintenance or customer support with respect to the Product. UBISOFT also reserves the right to amend the Rules of Conduct set out in Section 1 to place limits on the use of the Product.

You all agreed.
So stop whining and blaming or move on.

NHLGoldenKnight
08-23-2018, 06:51 PM
For all the whiners, big mouthes, crybaby... Some information you agreed on:


You all agreed.
So stop whining and blaming or move on.

That still doesn't make it right. There is no mention on real money spent here and explanation of how that works. If you threat your customers like monkeys, you will end up with monkey $hit in your hand, check out how EA recently learned about that harder way.

Also, according to your quote, it would be perfectly fine if Ubisoft would sell you new PvE mode for 30 US dollars and next day they just remove it. So for you, that would be acceptable because of generic text they came up to protect themselves?

If you read carefully, they still could lose potential lawsuit because they would have to prove how changes were necessary for game to work optimally, which wouldn't be easy as it looks. They are basically just replacing one perk system with another one but instead they could have just modify existing one. They didn't, because they want to take more of your money after all those bilions collectively spent by players went just down the drain in case of steel, and right into greedy Ubisoft pockets, in case of real money.

So you enjoy getting humped in real life? Good for you, I don't.

DefiledDragon
08-23-2018, 07:34 PM
For all the whiners, big mouthes, crybaby... Some information you agreed on:



You all agreed.
So stop whining and blaming or move on.

You're not serious. You really think people read this crap? Don't be such an arse.

HazelrahFirefly
08-23-2018, 09:07 PM
Even if they did, they would read it after the game was already purchased. Besides, what, is someone going to see that vague clause and trade the game in straight away because a gear system might be entirely swapped out at some point? Gtfo of here with that.