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Golden_Eagle_FM
10-02-2008, 10:01 AM
I am mounting a film about WWII events in the pacific.
I bought the FRAPS full version and I must admit that it is easy to use very flexible and the produced files are excellent quality.

Nowthe big disappointment is the impact on framerate. I go from 50/60 fps to 30 when FRAPS is activated and is recording.

On their website they mention that video recording has some impact on framerate, but I would have never thought it would have such an impact. That is too much.
I have a very powerful rig which allows me to have high framerates of even in complex scenes with all bells and whistles to the maximum, but all this fluidity and smothness in the dynamics is lost with FRAPS.
An when in very loaded scenes the framerate is at 30-40 the we go down to 15 and clearly there is stuttering visible.

My question is that may be I am doing something wrong.

My System with Windows Vista SP1
Hard disks are two fast Raptors 150 GB at 10'000rpm, and one 500GB at 7'000 rpm.
Memory is 4GB at 1600 FSB - DDR2-9600
Processor Intel EXtreme Quad QX 9770 3.2GHz
Mainboard ASUS Rampage
Graphic Card Asus - Geforce GTX280

I use FRAPS in the half-size 25fps mode and the "no cursor" and "no sync" functions are not checked.

In the NVIDIA driver setting for the graphic card I use triple buffering set to on and vsync set to on.

If anybody has experience on how to improve the performance and minimize the impact of FRAPS I would be very interested in his advice.

Gold

Golden_Eagle_FM
10-02-2008, 10:01 AM
I am mounting a film about WWII events in the pacific.
I bought the FRAPS full version and I must admit that it is easy to use very flexible and the produced files are excellent quality.

Nowthe big disappointment is the impact on framerate. I go from 50/60 fps to 30 when FRAPS is activated and is recording.

On their website they mention that video recording has some impact on framerate, but I would have never thought it would have such an impact. That is too much.
I have a very powerful rig which allows me to have high framerates of even in complex scenes with all bells and whistles to the maximum, but all this fluidity and smothness in the dynamics is lost with FRAPS.
An when in very loaded scenes the framerate is at 30-40 the we go down to 15 and clearly there is stuttering visible.

My question is that may be I am doing something wrong.

My System with Windows Vista SP1
Hard disks are two fast Raptors 150 GB at 10'000rpm, and one 500GB at 7'000 rpm.
Memory is 4GB at 1600 FSB - DDR2-9600
Processor Intel EXtreme Quad QX 9770 3.2GHz
Mainboard ASUS Rampage
Graphic Card Asus - Geforce GTX280

I use FRAPS in the half-size 25fps mode and the "no cursor" and "no sync" functions are not checked.

In the NVIDIA driver setting for the graphic card I use triple buffering set to on and vsync set to on.

If anybody has experience on how to improve the performance and minimize the impact of FRAPS I would be very interested in his advice.

Gold

Golden_Eagle_FM
10-02-2008, 10:08 AM
I should add a comment to my previous text otherwise it may sound strange. I play in the 1920X1600 pixel screen size format.

The files I generate with fraps are very big (about 50MB to 100MB per captured sequence - yes I forgot to mention that I have also a 1TB external HDD for storage) because the film I am doing is not on youtube type format it is in a more HD format that can then be compressed to smaller sizes and put on youtube if wanted. But my target is that the master film of a quality that can be seen from a DVD on a 16:9 HD TV screen.

Gold

FoolTrottel
10-02-2008, 10:55 AM
Maybe playing the track at 1/2 speed in IL2, while Fraps records it?
Yeah, it will take twice as long... and you'll somehow have to restore the speed later... but...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I forgot to mention that I have also a 1TB external HDD for storage </div></BLOCKQUOTE> As long as you are not directly recording to that disk, it is not relevant to recording performance...

Good Luck!

M_Gunz
10-02-2008, 11:18 AM
GE- I don't see that you are recording from track playback or not.
Highly recommend that you do. Ntrk playback may not be affected by framerate... possibly.

You can run the same track after varying things like screen resolution, etc, to get better FPS.
Consider how much you're going to need to squeeze the output files if you intend to send them
across the net anyway.

jarink
10-02-2008, 11:31 AM
Yes, the golden rule has always been to playback and record at half speed, then speed it up during editing. I'd recommend not recording the sound, as that will also increase the size of the files and slow down the rate of video capture.

Are you recording to the 1TB external drive? That may also be causing some issues depending on the type and speed of connection (USB, Firewire?). Save captures to the fastest drive you have that's not being used for something else and disable any anti-virus scanning (at least temporarily). If your fastest drive does not have enough space, capture clips there then move them to your bigger drive(s).

K_Freddie
10-02-2008, 12:30 PM
If you're recording for U-Tube, set the fraps record settings to half-screen res, I find that recoding at 25 FPS still allows the game to be playable in real time.
If using an external drive, it's probably USB, and this will be the 'bottleneck' in your recording bandwidth if you're recording and full screen res. Save first to the 10K rpm disk, then transfer the raw files to the external later.

As mentioned, recording an ntrk/trk allows one to get the best results, as you can tweak IL2 and fraps.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

deepo_HP
10-02-2008, 01:27 PM
hi golden eagle,

if you use a track-playback to record from, framerates should just not going lower than you have set in 'fraps'. so with 25fps fraps-recording you won't have better results with 80fps ingame than 30fps.
as said before, 'live' recording while playing is not recommended, why anyway?

Golden_Eagle_FM
10-02-2008, 02:21 PM
Thanks for the comments.

I do not record on the external 1TB HDD as it is USB2 and so not fast. The recording is done on the fast raptor disk.

However I do record from the live game, and sometimes with sound and sometimes not.
I still have to check if this makes a difference.

But I did not record from track. I will have to check that.

Gold

Golden_Eagle_FM
10-02-2008, 02:43 PM
I did some tests and here are the results.

When the frame rate is 40 50 60 or more then when FRAPS is activated it goes down to the standard 25 fps which is the recording speed i set.

The setting to record sound or not does not change the framerate even by 1 fps. It is without any impact. This probably because I have a very powerful machine.

It si also interesting to note that when I do save tracks, then I playback the tracks and record with FRAPS then there is absolutely no difference. So recording live or from track make no difference at all.

When the framerate is lower around 25-30 then the frame loss is smaller it is around 6 FPS.

This means that to capture higher framerate means FRAPS has to be set at 30 fps or 50 or 60. But then I suppose the files will become enormous. I still have to test that.

Gold

Golden_Eagle_FM
10-02-2008, 03:21 PM
Here some more numbers.

I use window movie maker as the tool to make up my film. FRAPS in half size outputs my original 1920X1600 resolution into 960X800. I tried with full-size but then fraps files become simply unmanageable in size. Hundreds of Megabytes for small clips.
The publishing is done in Window Media Video WMV - HD (7.8 Mbit/sec) format which is the highest available with this tool. Output resolution is 1440X1080 which is suitable to view in HD and should avoid loss from my captured resolution.

I plan to have a 12 minutes film. At this time I have now a finalized playable 6 minutes film with full CD quality music sound track and this generates a 266 MB WMV file.
I suppose for the full film I will run into the 500-600 MB.

Now if I want to compress it to be posted online what format should I convert my 500MB WMV files?

Gold

M_Gunz
10-02-2008, 03:27 PM
DIVX

deepo_HP
10-02-2008, 10:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Golden_Eagle_FM:
However I do record from the live game, and sometimes with sound and sometimes not.
I still have to check if this makes a difference. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

difference or not, why would you record live anyway? even if you want a 'live'-feeling, you can record the track with view locked?

not to speak of the fact, that you can put hours of flight into a track instead of only minutes.


and of course, the 'fraps' issue is the same - whichever way you record... if you set 'fraps' to a specific framerate, the game will only show exactly that (or a multiple of it) framerate. so if you set it to 25fps, the game will either play at 25fps. there is no other way of recording frames... otherwise a variable number of frames would have to dropped, resulting in irregular stutter.
thats another reason, why 'live'-recording is not the way to go.

however, 25 or max 30fps is exactly what you want for movies. sure you can set 'fraps' to 50 or 60 fps, but as you already said, this would need an exceptional system (~120mb/s write-only). and you would have to reduce the framerate for standard video again, so absolutely no gain!


for the compression:
'fraps' produces nearly uncompressed frames - that is why it is do fast. instead of letting 'fraps' downsize the frames to half, i would recommend to do have it done after recording! so either record in full and use 'virtualdub' to resize. or record already in the final resolution, as every resizing results in quality loss: 'fraps' taking half-res is already a loss in quality, having it upsized later in the progress means even a lot more loss in addition. why don't you set game to play at 1440x1080 and let 'fraps' record full-res?

'wmm'has strong advertising aim. that is, why only the proprietary 'wmv'-format is used. and that is also the reason, why hd-formats are set in a way, as microsoft thought it could take the hd-dvd market. which doesn't mean, the format and the 'wm9'-codec is bad, in opposite... it is the same standard as 'divx' (mpeg4), and compressing with the same bitrate will get you nearly the same quality.

the most visible quality-gain will be achieved by non-upsizing during the process (not to speak of first down- and then upsizing, as you have done)

then: for optimal results, never recompress a video twice, not with such as mpeg4! means, don't use your 600mb final file and compress it again to get a smaller file for other purpose.
to get a version for net-distribution, let 'wmm' first render your high-res, then resize (still inside 'wmm') and let it render at a lower bitrate. if you plan to put it on tube, read their help-file. it says pretty exact, which resolution they will need and which compression they prefer (else they do it anyway).
in the only case of downsizing for youtube, you can nevertheless recompress your hd-file, as the amount of downsizing is so great, that any other degrade in quality is hardly noticeable. for some medium quality though, i would always render twice.

Joe-90
10-03-2008, 05:48 AM
...what deepo said http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You're biggest improvement in fps capture will be achieved by reducing resolution. This is why most of us record tracks at normal playing resolution then frap these track on playback at a lower res.

If you only want DVD quality for a normal TV, you only need 720x576. If you want HD for a VDU or HD TV, then you need 1280x720.

If you can capture at that and get sound, then you do have a good machine! Are you using the sound mod? This is an easy way to get much better sounds into your video than the standard sounds.

... and to reinforce what deepo said, avoid recompressing a compressed video whenever possible. If the outup is wmv, leave it at that and don't change to divx. or output at HD avi then you can use virtualdub to divx it.

Joe-90
10-03-2008, 05:49 AM
PS, check your AA anf AF settings too. Sometimes if these are up at highest quality you can get a fair fps drop. Some of these high settings make little difference for videos.

Golden_Eagle_FM
10-03-2008, 03:04 PM
On my system there is little difference with up to Anisotropic 8X and Antialising 8X. There is no gain going lower or little to notice, so I stay at that and images are excellent.

I do not use the sound mod because it is with version 4.08 and I need 4.09b otherwise I loose a lot of objects that I use in my game.

Gold

RMcSlash
10-03-2008, 03:29 PM
One other advantage of Frapping from Tracks is the variety of camera angles and views available in the Track.

Joe-90
10-03-2008, 05:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Golden_Eagle_FM:I do not use the sound mod because it is with version 4.08 and I need 4.09b otherwise I loose a lot of objects that I use in my game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
There is now a unified mod installer that lets you use 4.08 and 4.09b. In fact, you get a lot more mods and maps for 4.09 as well!

Golden_Eagle_FM
10-04-2008, 12:47 AM
I did some more test and in fact the right thing to improve framerate is to run the scenes at half resolution in my case 960X600 (base resolution is 1920X1200 and not 1920X1600 as i said in my previous posts.

So running IL2 at 960X600 and then FRAPS at full resolution does indeed give in the final movie clip even for complex scenes with smoke, lot of bullet flying explosions which are mostly cpu driven still a gain of 6-7 frames up to 10 frames in lighter scenes which is enough to go from slight stutter to no stutter.

Now to use the full HD movie capability of WMM the original resolution should be 1440X800 with FRAPS at full but this again creates too large files and WMM has difficulties in managing them.

Conclusion I need a more powerful graphis board (I am against SLI as I tried and had too much problems) and a more powerful processor if I want to do a real HD movie in quality. In six months with the new generation of Intel CPU and a faster vido board from Nvidia it will be there.

Gold

Golden_Eagle_FM
10-04-2008, 01:09 AM
I have to correct the maximum WMM HD-1080 format is 1440X1080. This is the one I use but it makes larger files to no use.

Finally for me with a base resolution of 960X600 the optimal format is the HD 1280X720 format which is at 25FPS and keeps the 16:9 ratio for large screens.

Gold

HGpappy1961
10-11-2008, 07:18 AM
Can someone help?
I have a problem with Fraps, my setup is all screwed up, I have to keep pushing my record bottom every 60sec because it stops recording.
What is wrong?

Pappy

Joe-90
10-11-2008, 07:34 AM
Sounds likr you have a demo version, not the full version.

HGpappy1961
10-11-2008, 08:02 AM
I got the full version from uTorrent, I lost alot of footage, you can see it here when the film image changes.
http://au.video.yahoo.com/watch/3677896/10128771

Joe-90
10-11-2008, 10:37 AM
That's the demo version, you can tell because it has the fraps logom at the top.

310th Falcon
10-11-2008, 11:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I got the full version from uTorrent </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

Best Regards