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View Full Version : Slow down warden's new dash heavy a bit



PepsiBeastin
08-10-2018, 11:37 PM
A move that was meant to catch people trying to roll away from shoulder bash is just being used as a better kensei top light, either slow down the animation or make it only launchable from shoulder bash. I mean cmon, how is this in any way acceptable? Also, it tracks from WAY too far away. Isn't this just shaman's jump heavy with a different animation? Not to mention THIS WAS THE PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE WARDEN APOLLYON'S HALF-SWORDING CHARGE, sped up and without unblockable of course. In the last clip, the warden literally curves around the shugoki to hit me which is like completely fair.

https://youtu.be/rwSkfDyuWV0
https://i.gyazo.com/235591972c9dd50e599164178e75bb90.gif
https://i.gyazo.com/7b707af4c345eaf95734e695af45e27f.gif

DefiledDragon
08-10-2018, 11:58 PM
I thought the idea of it was to catch cowards who run away from a fight?

PepsiBeastin
08-11-2018, 12:07 AM
I thought the idea of it was to catch cowards who run away from a fight?

Exactly, it shouldn't be an opener at all. The patch notes say it starts 300ms into his dash but I find that hard to believe.

voiddp
08-11-2018, 12:14 AM
It was bad idea.
Warden is a basic knight vanguard and moves now faster than assasins and can hit from farther than the most ranged assassin available.

There was concept that when you need to punish running away people you play as fast character, some assassin, and then you can run from slower characters, someone still can cach you with some running moves that have some more tracking than stance moves. It was balanced and logical.

And then boom we get teleport with crazy traking from stance, for basic vanguard that should not be fastest guy. Just because.

Wtf with such tracking moves like this and his SB. There are still characters here that rely on keeping some distance to fight. What they are supposed to do with more and more Heroes that can just always be at their faces all the time with new moves with crazy trakinh distanses.

Vakris_One
08-11-2018, 12:16 AM
It's perfect for catching Shinobi's who run away, which is basically every Shinobi ever, so I would say it's doing its job perfectly. It's also very predictable because you know that if you have a Warden at a distance he will be throwing that move, which makes it parry bait and dodge attack bait.

DefiledDragon
08-11-2018, 12:22 AM
Exactly, it shouldn't be an opener at all. The patch notes say it starts 300ms into his dash but I find that hard to believe.

If you're fighting a Warden and you're not top guard, you're getting hit because his fastest strikes all come from the top, including his new dash heavy.

voiddp
08-11-2018, 12:23 AM
The question is why do you even give vanguard knight ability catch ranged assasin ninja when he runs away?
Its just some unlogical peace of game disign.
As far as I remember they didn't buff shinobi health pool and reflex guard stance along with adding this.

DefiledDragon
08-11-2018, 12:29 AM
The question is why do you even give vanguard knight ability catch ranged assasin ninja when he runs away?
Its just some unlogical peace of game disign.
As far as I remember they didn't buff shinobi health pool and reflex guard stance along with adding this.

Seriously? We have characters that can guard break you, or combo you from 20 feet away (Shinobi), characters who can wreck your health while replenishing theirs (Shaman, Shugoki) and you think having a guy run 10 feet to hit you with his sword is illogical? Ok.

PepsiBeastin
08-11-2018, 12:35 AM
Seriously? We have characters that can guard break you, or combo you from 20 feet away (Shinobi), characters who can wreck your health while replenishing theirs (Shaman, Shugoki) and you think having a guy run 10 feet to hit you with his sword is illogical? Ok.

It isn't running, he gets launched at you at like 40 mph. If an attack requires making you move faster than the fastest character's full sprinting speed with tracking to hit, then it shouldn't be in the game period.

voiddp
08-11-2018, 12:35 AM
2 of those characters you mentioned are fast assassins and that is in their kit, with speed and some things like less hp and reflex guard. To balance that kit.

And on the other hand we have warden. Why?
As example Kensei has Nature Wrath for that same thing, why is that so much more balanced? It has range but not so much, it is a lot slower. So sure this warden move is bad disign.
Im not talking about realism, I am talking about consistency of game system.
Basic "general" characters for starters should not be faster that assasins that are faster by game description of them

DefiledDragon
08-11-2018, 12:39 AM
It isn't running, he gets launched at you at like 40 mph. If an attack requires making you move faster than the fastest character's full sprinting speed with tracking to hit, then it shouldn't be in the game period.


2 of those characters you mentioned are fast assassins and that is in their kit, with speed and some things like less hp and reflex guard. To balance that kit.

And on the other hand we have warden. Why?
As example Kensei has Nature Wrath for that same thing, why is that so much more balanced? It has range but not so much, it is a lot slower. So sure this warden move is bad disign.

What's the problem with it? Specifically? All I'm hearing is that it's not realistic. 90% of the combat isn't realistic. If you're facing him and you know how to block you shouldn't be getting hit by this move. If you've got your back to him and you're running away and getting hit, then it's doing it's job. I don't see an issue.

Lord_Cherubi
08-11-2018, 12:41 AM
The speed is fine, the range is absolute ******** for a Vanguard hero.

Illyrian_King
08-11-2018, 12:44 AM
If just the animation wouldn't look so unreal and plastic.

More like an anime ;b

Also his range is far too much ... he covers distances of like 7-8meters with his cute little forward dash.

voiddp
08-11-2018, 12:46 AM
Can't you read, why do we need yo repeat "what problems" with it? Its already there, go read again.
Its not about realistic, it's about speed and range, and ingame Hero group type.
You are clearly not reading because you are the only one talking about realism or not here, trying to invalidate opponents arguments or something like that lol?

NHLGoldenKnight
08-11-2018, 01:04 AM
As I main Warden, I agree.

I have two problems with his forward dash.

1. Range or timing are making impossible to run away from him. While I would agree that no one should run away to begin with, ganking in 4v4 makes me reconsider. I just was ganked and destroyed vs 3 Wardens while trying to learn Orochi. It was frustrating overall.

2. It looks clumsy. I will have whole another topic about Warden but to make it short now, he is NOT a master of a longsword. His moves are completely off, he looks like a drunk thug swinging barstool after a couple of strong drinks and rejection by beautiful blonde to visit a restroom together.

DefiledDragon
08-11-2018, 01:53 AM
Can't you read, why do we need yo repeat "what problems" with it? Its already there, go read again.
Its not about realistic, it's about speed and range, and ingame Hero group type.
You are clearly not reading because you are the only one talking about realism or not here, trying to invalidate opponents arguments or something like that lol?

If you're talking about Vangaurds, you could level the same complaint at Kensei's dodge attack and the one where he leaps forward into a top heavy. Given what the move is designed to do, catch people who are running away from you, it's speed and tracking are necessary, otherwise it just wouldn't work and then it WOULD be an opener and nothing else. Slowing it down would make it useless for catching fleeing shinobi's and the like and if it's not useful it might as well be removed altogether. Sure it's annoying when you're running along and a Warden comes flying out of nowhere and lands a strike, but the same can be said of a lot of the other pouncing moves in the game, most of which are far more potent than this one.

Illyrian_King
08-11-2018, 02:05 AM
Can't you read, why do we need yo repeat "what problems" with it? Its already there, go read again.
Its not about realistic, it's about speed and range, and ingame Hero group type.
You are clearly not reading because you are the only one talking about realism or not here, trying to invalidate opponents arguments or something like that lol?

Nope, I am talking about realism too.

Of course this game is far away from realism, but that doesn't mean we have to give all Heroes freakin jetpacks and in this case across-the-map animations. This is solid bullsh*t.



As I main Warden, I agree.

I have two problems with his forward dash.

1. Range or timing are making impossible to run away from him. While I would agree that no one should run away to begin with, ganking in 4v4 makes me reconsider. I just was ganked and destroyed vs 3 Wardens while trying to learn Orochi. It was frustrating overall.

2. It looks clumsy. I will have whole another topic about Warden but to make it short now, he is NOT a master of a longsword. His moves are completely off, he looks like a drunk thug swinging barstool after a couple of strong drinks and rejection by beautiful blonde to visit a restroom together.

His forward dash would have made more sense if he simply stabbed with his sword, which is just historically accurate, instead of jumping head-over in it. Maybe some half-swording animations, people wanted so badly.

But of course with a bit less range and maybe also 50ms slower.

MarshalMoriarty
08-11-2018, 02:11 AM
I'm not sure the speed needs to be reduced for its own sake, but the range and the bizarre spasming animation are another matter.

Warden's the leader of the gang, the flashy James Bond knight. He can't be saddled with such a goofy looking move. Its even got a cool name - it should look much better than that.

PepsiBeastin
08-11-2018, 02:13 AM
I'm not sure the speed needs to be reduced for its own sake, but the range and the bizarre spasming animation are another matter.

Warden's the leader of the gang, the flashy James Bond knight. He can't be saddled with such a goofy looking move. Its even got a cool name - it should look much better than that.

Like I said, he should've been given a sped up version of apollyon's half-swording charge, without unblockable.

MarshalMoriarty
08-11-2018, 02:28 AM
I don't think they should give Apollyon's move or any variant out. She's like the series mascot, so her moves should be her own IMO.

But I do not understand why they refuse to give Warden any thrust attacks. He's supposed to be a master of the longsword for crying out loud.

DefiledDragon
08-11-2018, 02:32 AM
Nope, I am talking about realism too.

Of course this game is far away from realism, but that doesn't mean we have to give all Heroes freakin jetpacks and in this case across-the-map animations. This is solid bullsh*t.


I see your point, but in a game where one of the characters eats you to get her health back it's pretty much open season on the solid ******** imo.

PepsiBeastin
08-11-2018, 02:34 AM
I see your point, but in a game where one of the characters eats you to get her health back it's pretty much open season on the solid ******** imo.

The problem is that faster attacks were the THING assassins were made around, now that everyone's getting them, there's less keeping them unique. Why should a man/woman in full plate armor be able to fly 20 feet forwards in less than half a second?

Knight_Raime
08-11-2018, 02:38 AM
No.
and it's 100% 300ms into the dash.
You're reflexes are just sub par.

PepsiBeastin
08-11-2018, 02:40 AM
No.
and it's 100% 300ms into the dash.
You're reflexes are just sub par.

Because it's alright to just give everyone super-fast attacks that send them flying across the battlefield, completely eliminating the value of spacing. People complain about shinobi ranged heavies, I fail to see how moves like warden's valiant breakthrough or whatever its called aren't direct upgrades with less punishability.

MarshalMoriarty
08-11-2018, 02:43 AM
Read your reply back Raime and you might understand why some people take issue with you.

Knight_Raime
08-11-2018, 02:47 AM
Because it's alright to just give everyone super-fast attacks that send them flying across the battlefield, completely eliminating the value of spacing. People complain about shinobi ranged heavies, I fail to see how moves like warden's valiant breakthrough or whatever its called aren't direct upgrades with less punishability.

It doesn't eliminate the value of spacing. It punishes poor spacing. If a warden constantly charges at you with Break through and you're not punishing it that's 100% on you.
I space the hell out of warden with Valk and it doesn't mess with me. It's a chase down move. the first one in the game as far as I know. So getting mad for it doing it's job is silly.
Now if you can actually provide a clip where you correctly spaced and read the situation and break through still gets you then we can talk.

DefiledDragon
08-11-2018, 02:58 AM
The problem is that faster attacks were the THING assassins were made around, now that everyone's getting them, there's less keeping them unique. Why should a man/woman in full plate armor be able to fly 20 feet forwards in less than half a second?

Yeah, I get what you're saying, but loads of ridiculous **** goes on in the game that doesn't make sense. You parry Shinobi's ranged attack and he zooms towards you and falls over. Why? Does he pull himself towards you? Has he got a portable winch in his Gi that just fires automatically regardless?

The move, whilst looking stupid, is useful and doesn't seem to be abusable. I use it to close distance or to catch people that are running away. My first reaction to it wasn't "well that's a bit ridiculous" but then whether or not you think the move is ridiculous is subjective. I think Shaman's bite is the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a supposedly "competitive" fighting game, but there it is. I just don't see how slowing it down will change anything other than potentially rendering it useless for its intended purpose.

NHLGoldenKnight
08-11-2018, 03:25 AM
It doesn't eliminate the value of spacing. It punishes poor spacing. If a warden constantly charges at you with Break through and you're not punishing it that's 100% on you.
I space the hell out of warden with Valk and it doesn't mess with me. It's a chase down move. the first one in the game as far as I know. So getting mad for it doing it's job is silly.
Now if you can actually provide a clip where you correctly spaced and read the situation and break through still gets you then we can talk.

At the same time forward dash enables multiple Wardens or even one to catch you if you are ganked by his team. So you pretty much don't have chance of running away from Warden if trying to escape from bunch of cowardly gankers.

Knight_Raime
08-11-2018, 06:55 AM
At the same time forward dash enables multiple Wardens or even one to catch you if you are ganked by his team. So you pretty much don't have chance of running away from Warden if trying to escape from bunch of cowardly gankers.

If you or one of your team members is constantly being ganked they're situational awareness needs work. You should always be with or near an ally. Never be off on your own unless you have the confidence and skill to handle an out numbered situation. At the end of the day you're not supposed to win a 1vX situation. Revenge exists to stall so help arrives maybe. There are far more potent gank combos than anyone+ warden. Shaman is still king as gank partner.

NHLGoldenKnight
08-11-2018, 08:21 AM
With all due respect, you and couple of other forum members are always trying to ignore main issue and you just keep focusing on individuals with usual comments to get better at game. It becomes annoying as hell.

If I am fighting 1v1 to capture a zone and 15 seconds later 3 more guys are coming, that is my bad situation awareness? Really?

I am not saying that I should be able to run away as any hero, but as an assasin yes. I should be able to get out of fight without Warden jumping 10 yards forward. And I am a Warden main and I hate assasins but running away from a fight should be their advantage.

Devs making less and less differences between classes and it helps with ganking. It helps a lot.

Not to mention how that move looks completely ridiculous. Clumsy and unrealistic even by For Honor standards. You had a chance to see that video of Warden going after Shinobi on other topic, and please watch it again. Warden literally pulled off his attack from around 10 yards with just steping forward once he was able to teleport next to his opponent without even moving his legs. Complete thrash of a move if you ask me.

voiddp
08-11-2018, 08:24 AM
If you're talking about Vangaurds, you could level the same complaint at Kensei's dodge attack and the one where he leaps forward into a top heavy. Given what the move is designed to do, catch people who are running away from you, it's speed and tracking are necessary, otherwise it just wouldn't work and then it WOULD be an opener and nothing else. Slowing it down would make it useless for catching fleeing shinobi's and the like and if it's not useful it might as well be removed altogether. Sure it's annoying when you're running along and a Warden comes flying out of nowhere and lands a strike, but the same can be said of a lot of the other pouncing moves in the game, most of which are far more potent than this one.
lol man you clearly are just ignoring everything else that you didnt write here. Wow such disregard wow wow xD

As example Kensei has Nature Wrath for that same thing, why is that so much more balanced? It has range but not so much, it is a lot slower. So sure this warden move is bad disign.
kensei move is not so badly disigned as wardens. It slow as hell and reactable. And it has much lower range even through his weapon is longer and his other moves reach is longer than wardens moves. And then warden gets teleport. You can run from kensei easily, but not from warden now.
I can agree that every char should have at least one move like that with long reach. But not with reach and speed like warden has now. Its just not balanced and ridiculously OP in 4vs4 modes vs characters that should be able to run if they disengaged you by game years long concepts.

Knight_Raime
08-11-2018, 09:20 AM
With all due respect, you and couple of other forum members are always trying to ignore main issue and you just keep focusing on individuals with usual comments to get better at game. It becomes annoying as hell.

If I am fighting 1v1 to capture a zone and 15 seconds later 3 more guys are coming, that is my bad situation awareness? Really?

I am not saying that I should be able to run away as any hero, but as an assasin yes. I should be able to get out of fight without Warden jumping 10 yards forward. And I am a Warden main and I hate assasins but running away from a fight should be their advantage.

Devs making less and less differences between classes and it helps with ganking. It helps a lot.

Not to mention how that move looks completely ridiculous. Clumsy and unrealistic even by For Honor standards. You had a chance to see that video of Warden going after Shinobi on other topic, and please watch it again. Warden literally pulled off his attack from around 10 yards with just steping forward once he was able to teleport next to his opponent without even moving his legs. Complete thrash of a move if you ask me.

Nah. If the whole rest of your foe's team shows up it's because they've killed your team more than likely. Either way though you're not supposed to win outnumbered engagements.
Falling back on the class system is a poor argument. Classes as a whole have never been very defined. Hybrids were the only heros that ever had any trace of an identity. The fact that you believe assassins means good mobility and someone else earlier was referring to assassins as speedy attack wise means we as a community don't even agree on what makes what class.

The only hero in this game that has any right to "run away" from a fight is shinobi because he's the mobility hero. And it's not like you can't disengage. You just have to be smart about it. Dodge into unlock roll is going to get you away even against warden 90% of the time.

Realism has no place in for honor. It's a fantasy game. As someone who actually has knowledge of weapons that are used in this game on top of actual fight experience with fencing and some brief other things it bothers me a lot to see how a lot of actions are done in this game. But I let it go because it's a damn game and visuals are done a specific way for a specific reason. The dashing heavy looks overly telegraphed and goofy for a reason. It's to make it easy to spot. When we have someone who's likely an 80lb man using gardening tools to pull in someone that weighs like a sumo wrestler you really can't be complaining about other moves.

I can clearly see the legs move in the beginning of it. Do they move the entire animation? No. but they do. But this is irrelevant.

My point is it's pretty telegraphed. and it's forced at 300ms into the dodge animation. If you're actually paying attention you can see it coming. In a fight against two decent players a raw break through is always blocked and sometimes even parried. It only ever lands in a 1v1 if someone is baited into a poor dodge or poor roll. I rightfully can't speak much about 4's. But then again in general dominion play tons of crap lands that normally wouldn't because people are bad at external blocking effectively.

voiddp
08-11-2018, 09:29 AM
So your argument is that move designed to catch rolls can be avoided in 90%? So suuure... Then why they have made it at all if it doesn't serve its purpose like that?
They made move to catch rolls and now people use it as engage move with teleport when enemy isn't even near or locked, like no other character can. And as valid light in close combat.

And no you can't run from warden. Playing as assassin you usually just need to roll once to avoid some attack, thrown at your back and you can run after that, if there are not any assasins at the back. But warden can use his teleport just more as he likes and not just once and you are free. So its impossible to time few rolls and run away. You will be rolling untill dying without stopping.

I can sniff here something about totally miss purposing the move and not predicting how it can be used outside of catching rolls. So they should really look at it and nerf range.

Knight_Raime
08-11-2018, 09:59 AM
So your argument is that move designed to catch rolls can be avoided in 90%? So suuure... Then why they have made it at all if it doesn't serve its purpose like that?
They made move to catch rolls and now people use it as engage move with teleport when enemy isn't even near or locked, like no other character can. And as valid light in close combat.

And no you can't run from warden. Playing as assassin you usually just need to roll once to avoid some attack, thrown at your back and you can run after that, if there are not any assasins at the back. But warden can use his teleport just more as he likes and not just once and you are free. So its impossible to time few rolls and run away. You will be rolling untill dying without stopping.

I can sniff here something about totally miss purposing the move and not predicting how it can be used outside of catching rolls. So they should really look at it and nerf range.

Because it does catch people? Just because it can be avoided some how doesn't mean anything. And dodge into unlock roll is busted. The fact that you're not aware of this along side your general approach of things just shows you are a low tier player with no grasp to the game on a fundemental level.
I avoid and run from warden as Valk. it's doable. if you know. You actually know what you're doing.

I'm done responding to you.

ChampionRuby50g
08-11-2018, 11:06 AM
If youíre fighting agaisnt Warden and you donít know to always keep your guard in top position, then itís your own fault for getting caught out. 500ms attacks from Warden are easily reachable, and if you canít Raime is right in saying your reflexes are subpar.

If you canít put your guard to top when you see a Warden dodge forward and then start attacking, your reflexes are subpar.

Iíve whiffed Valiant Breakthrough multiple times against opponents running away. Iíve had to blocked agaisnt opponents in a 1v1 situation and a ganking situation multiple times. Iíve had it parried multiple times. The move is fine.

RexXZ347
08-11-2018, 11:23 AM
There will always be people here that even how strong a character is. They will always defend ubisoft and that character. Lol. Dogs of ubisoft.

voiddp
08-11-2018, 11:46 AM
no its just feature of this forum to always have people who at every your suggestion come in and start to make personal toxic posts about you, your skill, and how you are unqualified to post something here to devs about balancing. Because you are obviously not smart enough and only they are. Nothing unusual lol.

ChampionRuby50g
08-11-2018, 12:01 PM
If you canít react to something thatís double the average reaction time of humans (250ms), then yes your reactions are subpar, worse than average. Apparently thatís toxic now :/

voiddp
08-11-2018, 12:07 PM
lol again personal post about someone else abilities. Nothing toxic sure. Continue with being such "not toxic" pleasant person haha

Quote me about me not being able to react on something, will you? no?
Because i dont **** write about this move - unreactable lol. But you obviously just dont read any of my posts to post something offtopic and toxic about me personally.
I write about that it is unbalanced move with too much range and speed for such range covered. It should not be designed like this. Need more range - make less speed, need more speed - make close move. Now it is just unfair.

ChampionRuby50g
08-11-2018, 12:43 PM
Did I ever mention you specifically in my post? No i didnít. But you have to assume itís all about you.

So no, I donít have to quote you on anything because I was never speaking about you directly, but rather as the community as a whole. If I wanted to speak directly at you, I would have quoted you originally. I was reaffirming what Raime said. Seeing as you immediately after my post started screaming Bloody Mary about toxicity, Iím guessing it was in response to my comment. But you are the one whose also been a smart @ss about members off this forum in your other comment.

If you throw a ball at a target 10 metres away and you miss by a mile, and I say youíre a bad throw, would you get offended and call me toxic for saying a fact, just like itís a fact if someone canít react to 500ms+ attacks they have sub par reflexes?

Iíve said that the move can be parried, blocked, and can miss targets who are running away.

NinjaRonin85
08-11-2018, 12:52 PM
Wait till season 8 we will have a monk with 400ms lights from neutral that can teleport behind you and attack, good luck reacting to that lol. I think the season 8 vanguard will have 400ms lights from neutral to, the crying on the forums is gonna be epic 😂

SaschoS
08-11-2018, 12:58 PM
yea game is pretty much **** show idk what the **** are they doing. They are giving us broken game. Idk why people can't see all the glitches and bugs and then they say the game is ok

Baturai
08-11-2018, 01:07 PM
Ubisoft and its Physics... :rolleyes:

RexXZ347
08-11-2018, 01:22 PM
yea game is pretty much **** show idk what the **** are they doing. They are giving us broken game. Idk why people can't see all the glitches and bugs and then they say the game is ok

it's either they are driven with blinding loyalty or payment. Either way they will always defend the game.

Erhanninja
08-11-2018, 02:22 PM
Yeah the move is crazy. Absolutely OP. Tracking and distance is mad.

This is the stupid thing with this game. Same with especially Shaman Orochi Valk HL. Itís impossible to roll away from them. Itís not just about running away. Sometimes you get caught in a bad position you want to re compose. But itís impossible now. Rolling away is impossible. But for example Shaman can always run away from you. You will never catch her. So whatís the point of playing any other hero? Itís so unbalanced. This crazy distance jump attacks are broken. Somebody can stay outside of your range while you fighting with his or her teammate and jump attack with an opening no risk involved. How you gonna fight somebody you canít even see on your screen and instantly on your face. Or you are in a zone looking at another direction you see somebody came before could even look Shaman takes half of my health away coz she can jump across the zone and now also Warden.

Not just this. They donít have to use these moves from far away. Itís also used a lot when face to face. Itís free damage when they jump attack on your face. Itís get abused with Shaman all the time. You dodge to one side boom one your face before can even recover.

SenBotsu893
08-11-2018, 02:49 PM
the movement itself looks so very unnatural. the forward movement needs to be toned down and it shouldnt be counted as a Heavy attack either. 500 MS 20 Damage in itself is very strong.

either

make it 17 damage 500 ms light attack

or

make it 20 damage 800 ms heavy attack

Devils-_-legacy
08-11-2018, 03:30 PM
You've changed it since last night but the bottom vid shows what's wrong the warden phases through Shug to get to you anyone saying your reflexes are subpar are just being a ****

That_guy44
08-11-2018, 03:41 PM
That first clip had me thinking about the "omae wa mou shindeiru" meme
Mate, that's hilarious.

EvoX.
08-11-2018, 03:53 PM
The only thing wrong with that move, in my opinion, is the very... well, ugly animation for it. It looks like the Warden kind of trips and accidentally swings his blade. Wonky and unsightly.

DefiledDragon
08-11-2018, 05:29 PM
With all due respect, you and couple of other forum members are always trying to ignore main issue and you just keep focusing on individuals with usual comments to get better at game. It becomes annoying as hell.

If I am fighting 1v1 to capture a zone and 15 seconds later 3 more guys are coming, that is my bad situation awareness? Really?

I am not saying that I should be able to run away as any hero, but as an assasin yes. I should be able to get out of fight without Warden jumping 10 yards forward. And I am a Warden main and I hate assasins but running away from a fight should be their advantage.

Devs making less and less differences between classes and it helps with ganking. It helps a lot.

Not to mention how that move looks completely ridiculous. Clumsy and unrealistic even by For Honor standards. You had a chance to see that video of Warden going after Shinobi on other topic, and please watch it again. Warden literally pulled off his attack from around 10 yards with just steping forward once he was able to teleport next to his opponent without even moving his legs. Complete thrash of a move if you ask me.

No character should have a get out of jail free card, not even an assassin.

DefiledDragon
08-11-2018, 05:33 PM
lol man you clearly are just ignoring everything else that you didnt write here. Wow such disregard wow wow xD

And you just sound like an assassin main who's salty because he can't run away anymore tbh.l2p.

voiddp
08-11-2018, 07:12 PM
And again missed with going personal here too lol. Kensei and nobushi, fastest character in game that run from everyone *sarcasm off^ (in case you dont catch that, or dont read part of it like usual)

Again - here is topic about new move discussion, and not about who mains what character.
And again - warden dash heavy is too fast for the distance it covers. It is unbalanced.
Sure you can react on 500ms attack, easily. But why should you start to expect and react 500ms attack from super long distances? its just counter-intuitive made move that should not be there at all.
Its basic logic - when you need to cover bigger distance you need to make longer move.But when you try to make fast move that covers that super long distance at the same time you get teleport (or get closer to teleport based on distance covered). And moves like that will never feel fair for the most of the people.
Because in this game Heroes have +\- the same speed of attack and movements. And if you kept distance before you could expect that you will have more time to react on attacks that will cover that distance. With wardens now you cant.

In duels its sure reactable, but only because you know you fight warden and know he has this move to cover distance and you expect it. And you watch him.

But in 4vs4 matches. You are fighting 1-2 people or clearing up some minions or just watchin other side so why should you expect and react on some warden who just came over to your radar but already hits you with his teleport within next 500ms, from distance where even shinobi cant yet hit you.
So yes its unfairly balanced move. Or just unbalanced. Or badly logicically designed. What you prefer to call it. that shouldn't have been went through their "inconsistency bug checks".

UbiJurassic
08-11-2018, 07:40 PM
Thanks for sharing feedback on Warden's dash heavy everyone. I'll make sure the comments are shared with the team.

fretti21
08-11-2018, 07:42 PM
I can take the dash no problem, easy parry if you dont run, but the HA in hes sb is just too much. And my 1% xp from ranked match thanks.

DefiledDragon
08-11-2018, 07:46 PM
And again missed with going personal here too lol. Kensei and nobushi, fastest character in game that run from everyone *sarcasm off^ (in case you dont catch that, or dont read part of it like usual)

Again - here is topic about new move discussion, and not about who mains what character.
And again - warden dash heavy is too fast for the distance it covers. It is unbalanced.
Sure you can react on 500ms attack, easily. But why should you start to expect and react 500ms attack from super long distances? its just counter-intuitive made move that should not be there at all.
Its basic logic - when you need to cover bigger distance you need to make longer move.But when you try to make fast move that covers that super long distance at the same time you get teleport (or get closer to teleport based on distance covered). And moves like that will never feel fair for the most of the people.
Because in this game Heroes have +\- the same speed of attack and movements. And if you kept distance before you could expect that you will have more time to react on attacks that will cover that distance. With wardens now you cant.

In duels its sure reactable, but only because you know you fight warden and know he has this move to cover distance and you expect it. And you watch him.

But in 4vs4 matches. You are fighting 1-2 people or clearing up some minions or just watchin other side so why should you expect and react on some warden who just came over to your radar but already hits you with his teleport within next 500ms, from distance where even shinobi cant yet hit you.
So yes its unfairly balanced move. Or just unbalanced. Or badly logicically designed. What you prefer to call it. that shouldn't have been went through their "inconsistency bug checks".

I see what you're saying and you're right. You can be stood there, clearing minions as you say or whatever else and the next thing a Warden comes flying out of nowhere and plants his sword on you. Or a LB comes flying out of nowhere and impales you (and maybe even ledges you), or a Conq comes flying out of nowhere and the next thing you're on the floor (or ledged), or a Warlord comes flying out of nowhere and you're being flung across the screen (or ledged). You can see where I'm going with this? There are plenty of other attacks that come flying out of nowhere when you're otherwise occupied. You might think his dash looks stupid, or doesn't fit the character and that's fine, that's your opinion. I think it's fine as it is and that's my opinion. We'll just have to agree to disagree :)

NHLGoldenKnight
08-11-2018, 07:48 PM
If you canít react to something thatís double the average reaction time of humans (250ms), then yes your reactions are subpar, worse than average. Apparently thatís toxic now :/

Why you people can't get through your head that op's reaction is not f..... issue many have with this move. Why don't you focus on real issue instead which is ridiculous distance some of the heroes can cover on already small maps full of ganking. If I am fighting one guy 10 yards away from my teammate fighting Warden (same applies for Shaman) why in the hell I have to watch for them at that distance at all? Moves like this one defeat every purpose of usual distance you keep when fighting someone. It is barely impossible to revive teammate near ongoing fight or use a feat anymore since here it comes, rocked propelled hero flying through the air, like those characters in Korean fighting movies. Let's give everyone such moves so we can all keep flying across the map. Lawbringer should get a shotgun and Shugo can parachute on his enemies. Why not, it is a "fantasy" game after all?

Well guess what, it is not a fantasy game. Obviously, it is a game so it's not real((duh?) but it is a game set in alternate history. If you look at the original game and heroes introduction, you will see how they refer to all heroes and their weapons same as we would. Poleaxe is referred to most versatile weapon if I remember correctly. But all weapons are taken from real world and all heroes as well are inspired by real warriors, minus some assasins. Also, did any of you see anything "fantastic " in the game? Dragons, witches, dwarfs, mages? No?

Telling how this game is "fantasy" to justify every ridiculous move is invalid. You want real fantasy game? Go play Dark Souls. Ironically, that game has much better approach to some realistic things more than For Honor for last couple of seasons.

If you are ready to accept heroes teleporting 10 yards with one swing of their weapon, I feel sorry for you and everyone who thinks how is that coolmand acceptable. It completely breaks little bit of immersion we have and if For Honor truly wants to become a fantasy game, real one, well there are much better fantasy games out there. Not everyone is 13 old screamer who thinks how it is soooo cooool dudee that 220 pound hero can just fly through the air in forward motion without even moving his legs. But guess what? He can't dodge attack for even 1 feet? Makes soo much sense, right?

NHLGoldenKnight
08-11-2018, 08:00 PM
I see what you're saying and you're right. You can be stood there, clearing minions as you say or whatever else and the next thing a Warden comes flying out of nowhere and plants his sword on you. Or a LB comes flying out of nowhere and impales you (and maybe even ledges you), or a Conq comes flying out of nowhere and the next thing you're on the floor (or ledged), or a Warlord comes flying out of nowhere and you're being flung across the screen (or ledged). You can see where I'm going with this? There are plenty of other attacks that come flying out of nowhere when you're otherwise occupied. You might think his dash looks stupid, or doesn't fit the character and that's fine, that's your opinion. I think it's fine as it is and that's my opinion. We'll just have to agree to disagree :)

With difference being that both, LB and Conq actually run towards you and they don't just teleport from around 10 yards away. Big difference if you ask me.

Also, move itself is clumsy and completely off for a "master of a longsword". If it was a forward thrusting move it would make sense, but swinging forward in such manner would cause you to fall right on your face. It is funny how well longsword techniques are documented and we have HEMA, yet devs were unable to create actual master of longsword. Instead we have a brute, swinging around his sword like it is 100 lbs heavy. Talk about missed opportunity.

DefiledDragon
08-11-2018, 08:32 PM
With difference being that both, LB and Conq actually run towards you and they don't just teleport from around 10 yards away. Big difference if you ask me.

Also, move itself is clumsy and completely off for a "master of a longsword". If it was a forward thrusting move it would make sense, but swinging forward in such manner would cause you to fall right on your face. It is funny how well longsword techniques are documented and we have HEMA, yet devs were unable to create actual master of longsword. Instead we have a brute, swinging around his sword like it is 100 lbs heavy. Talk about missed opportunity.

I know they run, but the end result is the same, you get hit by something you didn't see coming.

While the game has a character that recovers her health by eating people I don't think anybody is in a position to start referring to documented techniques tbh. Many characters have unblockable attacks. Shinobi can deflect, disappear and reappear behind you and kick you across the room before you can react. Hyperarmor. Revenge. Feats. All nonsense, all in the game. Criticising Warden's Valiant Charge or whatever it's called based on balance is fair. Complaining that it's not realistic in a game full of all the crap I just mentioned and more doesn't make sense to me. Would I prefer it if the game was a more realistic representation of medieval combat? Sure I would, but unfortunately it's not.

PepsiBeastin
08-11-2018, 08:36 PM
I know they run, but the end result is the same, you get hit by something you didn't see coming.

While the game has a character that recovers her health by eating people I don't think anybody is in a position to start referring to documented techniques tbh. Many characters have unblockable attacks. Shinobi can deflect, disappear and reappear behind you and kick you across the room before you can react. Hyperarmor. Revenge. Feats. All nonsense, all in the game. Criticising Warden's Valiant Charge or whatever it's called based on balance is fair. Complaining that it's not realistic in a game full of all the crap I just mentioned and more doesn't make sense to me. Would I prefer it if the game was a more realistic representation of medieval combat? Sure I would, but unfortunately it's not.

How realistic the game is has nothing to do with giving a character with a longsword an attack that reaches as far or even further than an attack from the character whose gimmick is ranged attacks

DefiledDragon
08-11-2018, 08:39 PM
How realistic the game is has nothing to do with giving a character with a longsword an attack that reaches as far or even further than an attack from the character whose gimmick is ranged attacks

The post I responded to was referencing HEMA, so yeah, how realistic the game is or isn't had everything to do with it.

dinosaurlicker
08-11-2018, 09:36 PM
Thanks for sharing feedback on Warden's dash heavy everyone. I'll make sure the comments are shared with the team.

Literally just make it more punishable. Along with some zone attacks. Parrying anything 500ms or more that does 20+ damage with insane range should grant a heavy attack. The reason zone attacks are so spammable, especially on console, is because there is no risk. It rarely gets parried because of the speed (at least on console, where 90% of the playerbase is) and when it does get parried, it only gives a light attack. Why try to parry PKís zone when itís hard to do so and only gives 15 damage with most heroes? Itís the same with wardenís dash attack. Let him have the insane speed and tracking, but make it punishable by a heavy attack. That way itís less spammable and only used for chasing cowards.

Iíll use this moment to address the sillyness that is 400ms and 500ms heavy attacks and zone attacks (which are considered heavy attacks). Why should moves like Shamanís leaping attack and PKís zone only grant a light attack off a parry? Orochiís 500ms light opener is slower and gives a heavy attack on parry and does less damage than the previously stated attacks. So why is it more punishable than say Shamanís dash attack? Because Shamanís dash attack is faster, does more damage, and has better range and tracking, it should be LESS punishable, right? WRONG. The way it is now is severely unbalanced. Any opening attack that is 500ms or faster should grant a heavy attack when parried. The only exceptions should be when theyíre chained, such as centís chained heavy. This is off topic but needs to be addressed

Back on topic, wardenís dash attack should be punishable by a heavy attack when parried like every other attack with similar speed, tracking, and damage.

EvoX.
08-11-2018, 09:56 PM
If you can’t react to something that’s double the average reaction time of humans (250ms), then yes your reactions are subpar, worse than average. Apparently that’s toxic now :/

Why are you mentioning something that has almost no correlation to For Honor and how reflexes work here? That 250ms average is measured by the most basic reaction time test possible - reacting to something you know for sure is coming and responding with a single action, e.g clicking with the mouse when the screen goes green. This is in no way similar or applicable to being in combat with an intelligent and unpredictable player, where you can only guess what might come next, where you have to consciously make the decision between which action to take, where actions may involve more than a single button press, and where there might be outside interference (4v4 modes) that makes it even more difficult to properly react.

PK's Zone is 150ms slower than that average human reaction speed, do you casually react to it and parry it? You don't. Please think a bit before saying this stuff.

Sneakly20
08-11-2018, 10:01 PM
Guess Iíll get in on this since it keeps popping up. The dash heavy is fine. Itís appropriate for him. I will agree that it looks very clunky but thatís my only complaint. Itís a 500 ms heavy.. that can only come from a forward dodge ... at 300 ms into dodge. Which means he had to dodge forward first then initiate at which then the indicator pops up for the attack to begin. Everyone will adapt.

NHLGoldenKnight
08-11-2018, 10:40 PM
I know they run, but the end result is the same, you get hit by something you didn't see coming.

While the game has a character that recovers her health by eating people I don't think anybody is in a position to start referring to documented techniques tbh. Many characters have unblockable attacks. Shinobi can deflect, disappear and reappear behind you and kick you across the room before you can react. Hyperarmor. Revenge. Feats. All nonsense, all in the game. Criticising Warden's Valiant Charge or whatever it's called based on balance is fair. Complaining that it's not realistic in a game full of all the crap I just mentioned and more doesn't make sense to me. Would I prefer it if the game was a more realistic representation of medieval combat? Sure I would, but unfortunately it's not.

I understand that end result is similar but why giving Warden something so unrealistic when there is a bunch ov moves for forward attack that could be recreated from old manuals or HEMA?

Also, my problem is not with his forward dash attack, he should have one. But distance he covers should be proportional to length of his weapon with his arms extended plus distance he covers when he takes one step forward. I was just looking at that video for 50th time and I still can't process what happened there. One second, Warden is around 10 yards away and instantly he his performing his top heavy. If you look at his feet, he literally teleported for last 3-4 yards of his attack. It is not just thing with Warden but these type of "tricks" have to stop. Crazy jump attack are on the level of Dragon Ball Z, if I remember it correctly since I watched that decade ago. If they continue like this, I expect shotguns and revolvers coming soon. You know, Doc Holiday fighting vs Warden, both have same range lol

ChampionRuby50g
08-12-2018, 12:39 AM
Why you people can't get through your head that op's reaction is not f..... issue many have with this move. Why don't you focus on real issue instead which is ridiculous distance some of the heroes can cover on already small maps full of ganking. If I am fighting one guy 10 yards away from my teammate fighting Warden (same applies for Shaman) why in the hell I have to watch for them at that distance at all? Moves like this one defeat every purpose of usual distance you keep when fighting someone. It is barely impossible to revive teammate near ongoing fight or use a feat anymore since here it comes, rocked propelled hero flying through the air, like those characters in Korean fighting movies. Let's give everyone such moves so we can all keep flying across the map. Lawbringer should get a shotgun and Shugo can parachute on his enemies. Why not, it is a "fantasy" game after all?

Well guess what, it is not a fantasy game. Obviously, it is a game so it's not real((duh?) but it is a game set in alternate history. If you look at the original game and heroes introduction, you will see how they refer to all heroes and their weapons same as we would. Poleaxe is referred to most versatile weapon if I remember correctly. But all weapons are taken from real world and all heroes as well are inspired by real warriors, minus some assasins. Also, did any of you see anything "fantastic " in the game? Dragons, witches, dwarfs, mages? No?

Telling how this game is "fantasy" to justify every ridiculous move is invalid. You want real fantasy game? Go play Dark Souls. Ironically, that game has much better approach to some realistic things more than For Honor for last couple of seasons.

If you are ready to accept heroes teleporting 10 yards with one swing of their weapon, I feel sorry for you and everyone who thinks how is that coolmand acceptable. It completely breaks little bit of immersion we have and if For Honor truly wants to become a fantasy game, real one, well there are much better fantasy games out there. Not everyone is 13 old screamer who thinks how it is soooo cooool dudee that 220 pound hero can just fly through the air in forward motion without even moving his legs. But guess what? He can't dodge attack for even 1 feet? Makes soo much sense, right?

So where are your threads and posts, if youíve made any, crying about Shinobi been able to stand outside of visual range and use a GB on you pulling you in, dealing 40+ damage for top heavy and then bleeding you while his teammates all have an opportunity to deal damage? That sounds much more broken than Warden moving the same distance to deal less than half off that damage.

I never once claimed anything about that fantasy stuff you are raving on about, so you wasted your time typing that out and Iím not even gonna bother addressing that at all.

Are you ready to accept this Shaolin character, who can apparently teleport behind you and throw 400ms lights? Nuxia, who can apparently punish you for blocking?

Iím sure you and other Shinobi mains think itís sooooo coool dude that Shinobi can somehow grasp a 200kg fat man and pull him 10 metres in like he weighs nothing. Or how PK can block a poleaxe with a short sword and dagger without crumbling under the sheer power behind that blow delivered by a 8 foot tall giant in full plate Armor? Makes so much sense right? No it doesnít make sense, but itís in the game for a reason. Just like Valiant Breakthrough is. Warden had no way to punish players who run away or roll away, rendering him useless in many situations. But a new mechanic was created to change that meta, and itís doing its job as described. Imagine if you played R6S and every time a new operator was released youíd cry because no other operator in the game does something similar and itís a new mechanic thatís going to change the way you approach fights. Thatís too much thinking for one day.

DefiledDragon
08-12-2018, 01:06 AM
I understand that end result is similar but why giving Warden something so unrealistic when there is a bunch ov moves for forward attack that could be recreated from old manuals or HEMA?

Also, my problem is not with his forward dash attack, he should have one. But distance he covers should be proportional to length of his weapon with his arms extended plus distance he covers when he takes one step forward. I was just looking at that video for 50th time and I still can't process what happened there. One second, Warden is around 10 yards away and instantly he his performing his top heavy. If you look at his feet, he literally teleported for last 3-4 yards of his attack. It is not just thing with Warden but these type of "tricks" have to stop. Crazy jump attack are on the level of Dragon Ball Z, if I remember it correctly since I watched that decade ago. If they continue like this, I expect shotguns and revolvers coming soon. You know, Doc Holiday fighting vs Warden, both have same range lol

The thing is, the forward dash attack was introduced to give him a counter to players attempting to run away. If it's limited in the way that you're suggesting (i.e. realistically), it renders it useless and they may as well remove it from the game because at that point it just becomes a thrust attack. I've no objection to that, thrust attacks are a large part of sword based combat and it's why they have pointy ends, but it strips him of his ability to chase down fleeing opponents which is what the move was introduced for in the first place.

Maybe he could have a level 1 feat where he throws a dagger which pins his opponents foot to the floor for a few seconds to give him a chance to close the distance or something. Either that, or make every characters running speed (not in combat movement speed, just running speed) the same so it's not quite so easy to disengage at will for the faster members of the roster.

I like this move that he has and it's not just because I play Warden, it's because I've been frustrated so many times by assassins (mostly Shinobi's tbh) who disengage at the first sign of trouble and run for the hills leaving me with no way of catching them and it's great that I finally have a mechanism to keep the pressure on them. I wouldn't care if they reduced the damage to 1, so long as it allows me to stop them from running away.

ChampionRuby50g
08-12-2018, 01:13 AM
Why are you mentioning something that has almost no correlation to For Honor and how reflexes work here? That 250ms average is measured by the most basic reaction time test possible - reacting to something you know for sure is coming and responding with a single action, e.g clicking with the mouse when the screen goes green. This is in no way similar or applicable to being in combat with an intelligent and unpredictable player, where you can only guess what might come next, where you have to consciously make the decision between which action to take, where actions may involve more than a single button press, and where there might be outside interference (4v4 modes) that makes it even more difficult to properly react.

PK's Zone is 150ms slower than that average human reaction speed, do you casually react to it and parry it? You don't. Please think a bit before saying this stuff.

No I donít always parry a PK zone because you donít have to parry every single attack in this game. I can react quick enough to block it when I see it though. And not casually, because I focus when I play FH, not twiddle my thumbs. Maybe you need to think before posting this stuff?

Iím confused about how people are upset that a move created to punish rolls is punishing rolls. If you see a Warden dash forward, put your guard up top and problem solved. Valiant Breakthrough isnít a fast move. Iím 95% certain itís a 500ms Attack that comes 300ms into a forward dodge for a grand total of 800ms. If you honestly canít react to that when you are facing a Warden, yes your reflexes are subpar and even if the Warden is been unpredictable with the move, 800ms is double that of a PK zone. So you have double the time to not only parry, but block, and itís still not good enough? If it takes 800ms for you to guess whatís coming, you need to work on your game, not cry for Nerfs.

In 4v4 when heaps is going on, the same can be said for a massive amount of different attacks in the game. Shinobi ranged attacks, Shamans leap attack, LBs impale, Raider Stampede, PK forward dodge heavy, several orochi moves I donít know the name off, Cent charged heavy, etc etc. So we can see itís much harder to react to heaps off different moves, and itís not just a Warden thing in 4v4.

Any competent FH player doesnít just stare at the indicators either. They actually look and learn the characters animations, as that is a better tell to an attack.

Helnekromancer
08-12-2018, 01:28 AM
Warden already had a way to chase people, his running heavy, so I don't know why they gave him this move.

If someone is faster than you, and they get away oh well, it's like people never heard of a "tactical retreat" especially when they see the deathball coming, everyone has different running speed, and you can no longer increase it since that stat got removed.

I also hate the animation of it so much, it looks like someone hard pushed Warden forward, and he is stumbling forward with his sword out.

Not everyone in this game needs a 10ft game closer going 50mph.

NHLGoldenKnight
08-12-2018, 02:03 AM
So where are your threads and posts, if youíve made any, crying about Shinobi been able to stand outside of visual range and use a GB on you pulling you in, dealing 40+ damage for top heavy and then bleeding you while his teammates all have an opportunity to deal damage? That sounds much more broken than Warden moving the same distance to deal less than half off that damage.

I never once claimed anything about that fantasy stuff you are raving on about, so you wasted your time typing that out and Iím not even gonna bother addressing that at all.

Are you ready to accept this Shaolin character, who can apparently teleport behind you and throw 400ms lights? Nuxia, who can apparently punish you for blocking?

Iím sure you and other Shinobi mains think itís sooooo coool dude that Shinobi can somehow grasp a 200kg fat man and pull him 10 metres in like he weighs nothing. Or how PK can block a poleaxe with a short sword and dagger without crumbling under the sheer power behind that blow delivered by a 8 foot tall giant in full plate Armor? Makes so much sense right? No it doesnít make sense, but itís in the game for a reason. Just like Valiant Breakthrough is. Warden had no way to punish players who run away or roll away, rendering him useless in many situations. But a new mechanic was created to change that meta, and itís doing its job as described. Imagine if you played R6S and every time a new operator was released youíd cry because no other operator in the game does something similar and itís a new mechanic thatís going to change the way you approach fights. Thatís too much thinking for one day.

You got me wrong. I hate Shinobi and most of the assassins more than everything when it comes to video game level of hate. I can't f...... stand him. I am not very active unless I have days off, but Shinobi was the main reason why I have decided to take a month long break recently. In his core, he is broken and doesn't belong in this game where everything is supposed to be up close and personal. Shaolin and some other heroes will probably have the same issue, and not only that I don't support them, I despise them. It is a wrong design by devs. I am also Warden main.

But, I am also being unbiased as much as human can be. Warden new move not only looks ridiculous but there is no basics for explaining how he is able to pull it off. Again, watch the video and pay attention to the exact moment when he starts his attack. Even for video game standards, it's way too much. Game universe should have its rules, laws of physics at least. Like every game, there will be some unrealistic moves, such as PK backflip but from fighting perspective it doesn't change much. She can hit you with her knee right in your nutsack or she can backflip. Doesn't matter.

However, when you start having heroes who can completely break some basic rules set by game earlier, that is an issue. For Shaman in general, Warden's forward dash, or Shinobi in generals, those rules don't apply. They are not affected by distance or time as most of the heroes. As much as I would love to see strong Warden, I don't want buffs that make no sense and are not visually pleasing nor fair to my opponent.

Warden could have been much better. Longsword is very well documented and there are so many options. Most of the players were practically begging for half swording yet devs ignored that. Pommel strike? No Kensei has that. Thrusting which is the best use for a longsword? No, that is reserved for a Kensei again. And Orrochi, and PK and Centurion. But not Warden.

Warden was never loved by devs. It is easy to see that by his moveset, animations ( the way he swings with his sword is so cliche ) and with his swords, especially guards. How many gold and green diamond covereg ugly and useless guards can one developer create? A lot obviously.

This is little bit off topic, but my point was to illustrate how Warden got his move in the first place just for sake of buffing him. No love towards him or basic logic there.

BLOOD-E-BARON
08-12-2018, 08:27 AM
OP did you forget how to block upwards?

voiddp
08-12-2018, 09:06 AM
I see what you're saying and you're right. You can be stood there, clearing minions as you say or whatever else and the next thing a Warden comes flying out of nowhere and plants his sword on you. Or a LB comes flying out of nowhere and impales you (and maybe even ledges you), or a Conq comes flying out of nowhere and the next thing you're on the floor (or ledged), or a Warlord comes flying out of nowhere and you're being flung across the screen (or ledged). You can see where I'm going with this? There are plenty of other attacks that come flying out of nowhere when you're otherwise occupied. You might think his dash looks stupid, or doesn't fit the character and that's fine, that's your opinion. I think it's fine as it is and that's my opinion. We'll just have to agree to disagree :)

And you are wrong here because those characters you mentioned don't have that distance like warden move. Its all about speed and distance. You can react on their moves better because they actually need time to get in close position first to use the move.
Make it consistent with other characters. If they need more distance covered then they just need to make move that changes speed based on distance to target. Or just not make it that long if they can't make moves with changing speed. like make is also chargeable to reach fartheror something.
Now with 500ms on longest distance its a teleport. As simple as that. Other chars don't have moves like that. All their moves either have less distance, or slower, or its just animation of teleport but the move is just close usual deflect.
Inconsistent.

I am not sure why someone can speak about fantasy here at all.
Because even when we have here some seemingly fantasy like moves, mechanic of that moves is still in the normal speed/distance. When shugo hugs you or shaman jumps on you, or shinoby teleports, its just an animation that is fantasy like, the phisically move itself in still in normal "set of coordinates". This warden move is designed like actual teleport, just because speed/distance. And its not normal situation in this game with other chars/moves yet.

OhHowSheGoingEh
08-12-2018, 09:15 AM
The question is why do you even give vanguard knight ability catch ranged assasin ninja when he runs away?
Its just some unlogical peace of game disign.
As far as I remember they didn't buff shinobi health pool and reflex guard stance along with adding this.

Cause hero classes mean nothing to Ubisoft. Look at the Kensei he has dash attacks, yet he's not an assassin, and he has superior block on dodge yet not a heavy.

NHLGoldenKnight
08-12-2018, 10:18 AM
I have to disagree regarding Shaman. It is probably most ridiculous hero in For Honor and completely breaking some sense of logic game used to have. Her jump is similar to that of Warden because she covers that distance way too fast .

What I have noticed is that Orrochi forward strikes are pretty realistic in a sense that he steps back, goes into something like crouch position and then actually uses his legs and position itself to gain speed and momentum behind his forward dask. Kinda makes sense.

voiddp
08-16-2018, 10:24 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/97pved/valiant_breakthrough_works_when_youre_above_your/

lol warden dash heavy is not just teleport it is a voodoo telekinesis too