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View Full Version : A little friendly advice needed.



andy_palasz
02-18-2008, 11:04 PM
If this has been covered before sorry I tried a search. I picked up IL2 the forgotten battles about 3 weeks ago and have been playing like crazy ever since. Im not a nOOb to flight sims, and Id like to think that I have the basics down pat. My question is are there any knowledge you guys can give me when it comes to combat(dogfighting)?
Like important views to bind. I seem to have a hard time following my adversary in the initial turn and end up loosing sight of them which isnt good. Functions that I might need that arent bound??(chocks/airbrake are 2 that ive found so far) I just signed up for the Joint-Ops school and am waiting approval. Basically Im looking for any knowledge I can get from you Aces on here combat or not.

jolly_magpie
02-18-2008, 11:32 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9121094645

K_Freddie
02-19-2008, 12:57 AM
Hmmm, 'Trial by fire' is the way my son http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Go out there, get shot down a million times, and when you get tired of the really stupid AI doing you in, it'll dawn on you how to avoid this.
Then your next trick is to 'shoot straight'..

Welcome
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

AlGroover
02-19-2008, 01:39 AM
If you want to play online then you will need IL2 1946 because that's what everyone else is using. The different editions and patch numbers are not compatible. If you don't have TrackIR then learn to use your mouse left handed to control your view. This will free up the hat switch for other duties. I use mine for flaps and rudder trim. Elevator trim is very important. I use the throttle axis of my Cyborg evo for this with throttle control by mouse wheel. Toggle FOV is very useful all other is optional if on full difficulty.

Xiolablu3
02-19-2008, 10:44 AM
You should get onlione mate, you will learn at 10x the rate and have 10x the fun doing it.

Ukdedicted servers are a great place to start, the Ukded2 server has relxed settings, great maps and freidnly regulars.

Settings are great for 'training' and just all out fun flying, cockpit always on so it 'feels' right and realistic, no enemy icons ruining the 'feel', but you still have externals on enabling you to see where you are going wrong and also find targets quickly and easily. Its a great 'mid-way' between fun and the more hardcore servers.

Join the server, make you chatbar bigger so that you see about 6 lines of chat (default is only one and you miss a lot), then talk away and ask questions.

strider1
02-19-2008, 11:06 AM
Welcome here!

Joint-Ops is the place to learn. The progression of courses is Basic Flight School, Pilot Ground School (adverse conditions taxi and flight, cross-country navigation), Intermediate Pilot school (leadership development accented), Advanced Pilot School, Advanced Fighter 1 and 2, Advanced Bomber School. All courses are planned curriculum and professionally presented by great instuctors whose goal is to see you succeed and have fun!

There is type training in your favorite crate, open info sessions on gunnery, ground attack methods, mission strategy, specific types and a whole lot more. All free! It'll save you months climbing the learning curve.

Online learning is a great way, too, but you don't get study materials or have assignments to gauge your recall or correct misconceptions. I recommend a blending of the two.

Best of luck and Cheers!
Strider1

HayateAce
02-19-2008, 11:12 AM
Get a stick with a 8-way hat thumb switch and learn it back to front.

I watch the kids practice QMB and they are slowly getting better at following ai opponents. Keep your patience, it takes a long time to become second nature.

I still lose the occasional bogey, but not often. You will continually lose them at first, simply because you will be trying to follow them by sight. Reach out with your feelings Luke! Once you have merged with 100 opponents you will begin to see patterns and be able to predict what they will do. I often even know WHICH pilot I have a hold of, based on what moves he makes. Knowing where your opponent is likely to go is the key to actually keeping track of him visually.

Get this skill down, then you can start thinking about creative maneuvering on your part. Then, develop the ability to glue onto your bogey's tail. Next comes learning how to shoot, and finally how to do evasives when you're in the hot seat.

The last is truly one of the last skills you will eventually put together, and in reality the one you will need the soonest! Because you will get sixed a lot in the beginning. This adds up to much frustration for new players.

Someone will mention TrackIR, but I learned using the HAT and don't care to switch now. I don't believe I've ever been bested by someone because they used it.

http://pcmedia.gamespy.com/pc/image/article/733/733271/lego-star-wars-ii-the-original-trilogy-20060918064911710%5B1%5D_1158638335.jpg

andy_palasz
02-19-2008, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
You should get onlione mate, you will learn at 10x the rate and have 10x the fun doing it.

Ukdedicted servers are a great place to start, the Ukded2 server has relxed settings, great maps and freidnly regulars.

Settings are great for 'training' and just all out fun flying, cockpit always on so it 'feels' right and realistic, no enemy icons ruining the 'feel', but you still have externals on enabling you to see where you are going wrong and also find targets quickly and easily. Its a great 'mid-way' between fun and the more hardcore servers.

Join the server, make you chatbar bigger so that you see about 6 lines of chat (default is only one and you miss a lot), then talk away and ask questions.
I have been playing some online. But i get blated so quick that I feel like im not learning as much that way. Im gonna try tailing an experienced pilot on the quick mission builder(no weapons). Anything lower than experienced gets blasted out of the sky with ease.(not that im complaining)
Thanks for the welcomes also. Its a breath of fresh air to be on a forum that is courteous to newbs. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I mostly frequent car forums and you better have a flame ******ant suit on when asking a nOOb question.

Xiolablu3
02-19-2008, 12:16 PM
Pick Ukdedicated 2 server mate, remember that externals and padlock are on (padlock has to be if externals are enabled).

Read the map briefs. Pick a good plane for new flyers like the Bf109, SPitfire, Zero, La5 etc.

Fly with another on your side, chat to people, help others out. Try escorting someone who is bombing.

If you dont feel good enough to fly fighters, or just want a change, Try attacking your teams targets using a ground attack plane. Bombers are well respected online because they are working for the team and have a dangerous job.

The most important thing is that you need to make your chatbox bigger by opening chat, and dragging the corner of the chatbox bigger with the mouse. Make it about 6 lines.

mortoma
02-19-2008, 01:04 PM
Stay offline for a while practicing before you venture online. People that get online too early get discouraged because they get shot down constantly. The AI are much easier and forgiving. If I would have started online I would have given up the game the first or second time flying.

andy_palasz
02-19-2008, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
Stay offline for a while practicing before you venture online. People that get online too early get discouraged because they get shot down constantly. The AI are much easier and forgiving. If I would have started online I would have given up the game the first or second time flying.
Yea, Ive been practicing the past 2 hours Me(Spitfire) vs. Ace AI (Spitfire) with empty loadout. Ive been practicing tailing the AI while he is trying to jink me. For me Veteran is too easy, im on him like flies on pOOp.

Friendly_flyer
02-19-2008, 01:43 PM
Try out a 4 x 4 engagement. That will teach you a bit of situation awareness, essential online!

Xiolablu3
02-19-2008, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by andy_palasz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
Stay offline for a while practicing before you venture online. People that get online too early get discouraged because they get shot down constantly. The AI are much easier and forgiving. If I would have started online I would have given up the game the first or second time flying.
Yea, Ive been practicing the past 2 hours Me(Spitfire) vs. Ace AI (Spitfire) with empty loadout. Ive been practicing tailing the AI while he is trying to jink me. For me Veteran is too easy, im on him like flies on pOOp. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would just get online right away, bearing in mind that you are new and dont be discouraged if you get shot down.

You will enjoy it whatever happens.

You could even join one of the arcade wonderwoman dogfight arenas where you are absolutely certain to get a few kills. Those are the servers I first learned on.

Try one of the servers with 'cockpit always on' unticked in the Hyperlobby settings.

Just do it...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

andy_palasz
02-19-2008, 02:44 PM
Thanks for the advice guys. Im gonna try your server out later.

HayateAce
02-19-2008, 03:19 PM
Wonderwoman view does allow you to see just which way and how your enemy would have gotten away if you weren't an ghey invisible jet.

Maybe use it on a few training missions, but there is the danger that you may never want to give up WW view and thus be permanently ghey.

andy_palasz
02-19-2008, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
Wonderwoman view does allow you to see just which way and how your enemy would have gotten away if you weren't an ghey invisible jet.

Maybe use it on a few training missions, but there is the danger that you may never want to give up WW view and thus be permanently ghey.
I dont want to be permanently ghey but that WW view did help me out a bunch. I just racked up my 1st 5 online kills with it.

TAW_Oilburner
02-19-2008, 09:13 PM
If you like the game and you think you will stick with it (and the predecessor whenever it comes out), then I can't strongly recommend enough spending the money on track-ir...it makes the game 10x as enjoyable.

Xiolablu3
02-20-2008, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by andy_palasz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:
Wonderwoman view does allow you to see just which way and how your enemy would have gotten away if you weren't an ghey invisible jet.

Maybe use it on a few training missions, but there is the danger that you may never want to give up WW view and thus be permanently ghey.
I dont want to be permanently ghey but that WW view did help me out a bunch. I just racked up my 1st 5 online kills with it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure you wont stick with WW for the rest of your flying time, its just good for starting out.

If you stick with the game then you will naturally progress onto Cockpit servers as the immersion is far far better. It feels a bit like a Space-ship and far more like a computer game when you have wonder woman view on. You have big arrows pointing to the enemy after all.

Once you feel confident in your basic flying skills and are racking up kills in WW view, then think about moving onto Cockpit always on servers. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Think of WW as training you to fly basically for a while, then once you can do that you can start learning to use your hatswitch to look around as well as you will have to do in cockpit on servers.

I started in WW servers but now I dont like them because the immersion is not there. I am sure most people will be the same, once you have mastered the easier settings you need a new challenge and hence move onto the more realistic settings.

BTW Ukdedicated2 isnt 'my' server, I just found it invaluable in my flying experience, thanks to its 'mid-range' settings and freidnly pilots (you always get the odd idiot but iin general on this server people always try to help.)

You tend to get a lot of very easy settings servers, and a lot of full difficulty, but not so many which are 'mid-way' with cockpit always on and realistic missions, but externals and padlock on. As in Ukded2. Its very good for seeing exactly what you are doing wrong as you can always 'find' the enemy plane instantly using padlock (the much debated but useful F6 key).

HayateAce
02-20-2008, 11:50 AM
For the record I disagree with staying away from online play during your formative months. Offline play does little to make you an ace dogfighter. The ai are either stoopid, or simply run away.

Jump online and take your lumps. My first online experience went like this:

I lifted off the strip, and quickly pulled up my gear and flaps to make the annoying 109 warning buzzer go off. As my gear klunked into the up position, a Yak flew up my can and shot out my engine. I slid to a halt at the end of the runway, laughing at my oil-smeared canopy.

5+ years later it's still fun, even when the above happens now and again.

TgD Thunderbolt56
02-20-2008, 12:42 PM
Go ahead and get online.

1. Get TrackIR
2. Get on comms and fly with a wingman
3. Read advice here and at mission4today
4. Practice.

Ben Hogan would always say, "The answer's in the dirt". You simply can't practice enough in your first few months.

PhantomKira
02-20-2008, 12:43 PM
Another trick, master a particular aircraft. Sure the basics are the same in any aircraft with regards to manuvering, and energy versus turning fights, but to really get good, you should pick an aircraft and learn its nuances. For example, I use an Me-109F-4. I know that aircraft rightside up, upside down, inside out, and backwards. I know what I can and can't do, I know exactly where the point is where it "won't" as opposed to "will", I know when it's thinking of stalling... you get the idea?

Once you know your plane, then you can start in on knowing the enemy's plane. This is almost as important. You know what you can and can't do, what about him? Example: If your aircraft is big, heavy and powerful (F4U Corsair), then you don't want to get into a turning fight with one thats small, light and manuverable (A6M Zero). Instead, use your weight to gain speed and dive on him, get a quick snapshot, and dive out of range before he can respond. Climb when out of range, and repeat. Be very wary of getting pulled into a turning fight if you're in an aircraft where that isn't your strength. Pilots love to get into turning fights; energy fights (like the one described above) take discipline, to avoid letting it degenerate into a turn fight, where the enemy has the advantage and will shoot you down.

All of this leads up to one simple plan.

Find your strengths and his weaknesses. Then use your strengths against his weaknesses. Never fight fair.


Things you probably don't have mapped and should...

The tailhook for naval aircraft

Manual gear extension and raise

I'm sure there's more I can't think of at the moment...

andy_palasz
02-20-2008, 08:42 PM
Thats funny you should throw in a Ben Hogan quote. Cause I actually got this game and took up golf at the same time. It seems applicable for both games.They both drive me nuts and make me want to practice 24/7 at the same time. Thx for the advice on flying, now what about curing my slice??

Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:

Ben Hogan would always say, "The answer's in the dirt". You simply can't practice enough in your first few months.

iron6th
02-20-2008, 09:20 PM
Hello there and welcome to IL2 if your just looking to get a feel and not be blown to pieces everytime you play online its purely instinct you have to be agressive as hell and be on full alert never allow your aircraft to level out still, alot of people dont fly 109s with the 30mm cannon so most will need a good beed to take you out, move and shake your aircraft to the breaking point. Im not considered an ace or well known on IL2 but I've taken down 4 spit aces with a 109 in one flight and all I have is a laptop with a touch pad and a 3 button 10 dollar joystick from radioshack and I can down the best of them, you better be a stick jocky and move your crate like an escapee from a mental institution-be totally unpredictable and be extremely aggresive when it comes taking a shot(tracer fire usually causes many to panic) never back off a chance to shoot even if you think you have bad tone alittle rudder and tracer fire gets you in the beed. I perfer head on attacks with 109s if you line up the shot with more then 100 meters to spare your almost guaranteed a kill even if your hit!

HayateAce
02-20-2008, 09:51 PM
You ain't taking me down with that setup, be sure.

Maybe your spitfire "aces" weren't "aces" at all........http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

iron6th
02-21-2008, 02:54 PM
Other then the use of a hat switch which I do have another stick equipped, I like the simpler one because it feels rock solid and has good handleing caracteristics. I specifically remember shooting you down in your lightning! Its like playing guitar, sometimes the most expensive or sophisticated setup is worth jack without instinct, I should also mention that my grand-uncle is WW2 ace(maybe that has something to do with it). The spit aces were definetly aces, and it was a planned duel- 4 against 1.