PDA

View Full Version : just for fun, count the # of mistakes



VF-29_Sandman
02-13-2005, 04:28 AM
in the ww2 movie 'midway', how many mistakes can u find? examples: curved flight decks on the american carriers, hellcats instead of wildcats, p-40's launching from midway island. and if u look reeeeeeeal close, u'll see: a battleship with 1 of the american carriers, and a few corsair's thrown in for good measure. and we all know that the corsair didnt appear in the pacific until 1943 at the very least. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

VF-29_Sandman
02-13-2005, 04:28 AM
in the ww2 movie 'midway', how many mistakes can u find? examples: curved flight decks on the american carriers, hellcats instead of wildcats, p-40's launching from midway island. and if u look reeeeeeeal close, u'll see: a battleship with 1 of the american carriers, and a few corsair's thrown in for good measure. and we all know that the corsair didnt appear in the pacific until 1943 at the very least. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

flyplenty
02-13-2005, 04:34 AM
Let's see...

http://victoryatseaonline.com/war/midway-2.html

capt_frank
02-13-2005, 05:29 AM
i could be wrong but...

didn't charlton heston take off in a dauntless only to return in a hellcat when he cracked up on the deck?

and,

ensign gay crashed a dauntless into the sea; however, the plane shown crashing wasn't a dauntless...a hellcat again?

ImpStarDuece
02-13-2005, 05:31 AM
Here is a little one,

quote from flyplenty's link;


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Midway is the classic reproduction of the actual "Battle of Midway" which took place on June 5-6, <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">1944</span>. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, makes you think about the reliability of all those wonderful resources available on the internet, doesn't it.

WWSensei
02-13-2005, 06:50 AM
Heston took off in a Dauntless, returned on final with a Hellcat and managed to crash a Panther jet.

VF-29_Sandman
02-13-2005, 07:21 AM
how many corsair's in the course of the movie did u find? another 1...during the 1st attack of midway by the japanese, u see a gunner manning a .50 cal, and his shirt is ripped up. in the background, u see a harbor. and the gun in question is water-cooled, and while they were setting up defenses, there was standard .50 cal's in foxhole bunkers.

or how about this; wildcat gets shot by a zero. at first, it appears the wildcat driver got pk'd. but in the 2nd frame, his cockpit bursts into flames, and starts to roast him like a hotdog.

Akronnick
02-13-2005, 10:00 AM
About the only thing that movie got right about the Airplanes it showed was that most of the USN planes were painted some shade of blue.

but to be fair, when this film was made, the technology to represent the correct planes wasn't available.

Arms1
02-13-2005, 10:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by capt_frank:
i could be wrong but...

didn't charlton heston take off in a dauntless only to return in a hellcat when he cracked up on the deck?

and,

ensign gay crashed a dauntless into the sea; however, the plane shown crashing wasn't a dauntless...a hellcat again? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ensign gay was the sole survivor of torpedo squadron 8, flying devastators

sapre
02-13-2005, 10:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Akronnick:
About the only thing that movie got right about the Airplanes it showed was that most of the USN planes were painted some shade of blue.

but to be fair, when this film was made, the technology to represent the correct planes wasn't available. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ever seen Tora Tora Tora?

Fliegeroffizier
02-13-2005, 11:55 AM
"Midway" happened to be on last night on TV...I watched the second half...Hadn't seen it for Many years.

I can't begin to cite all the acft errors...switching back and forth between acft was horrid( torpedo bombers crashing, next shot a hellcat is hitting the water, same pilot supposedly...

Japanese acft(tporpedo and/or dive-bombers) flying Towards their targets(Midway or carriers) and sometimes the external shots of the acft show they have no bombs or torpedoes...

It's a total hodgepodge of randomly selected filmclips lashed together with apparently NO attempt to show correct acft.

As for the comment above that the technology was not available to Hollywood when the movie was made, what does That Mean??? All they had to do was use films of the correct TYPE acft...these people at one point in the movie, I SWEAR, even used a short bit of footage of a Japanese acft right smack in the middle of a segment which was Supposed to be US acft


There were so many constantly appearing errors that it was truly laughable. They got the Overall strategic story right, but they clearly had NO technical advisor knowledgeable about WWII US Naval aviation, whatsoever. Heck, any 10 year-old with a passing interest in aviation history and plastic-model-building could have given them better advice.

We are not being anal nit-pickers here...it's not like in "Pearl Harbor"(also cr@p, in spite of having available all State-of-the-Art Technologies) where "We" experts make note of the fact that they used the wrong Model of P40(that's a pretty specific detail to point out as an error), it's more as if the "Midway" producers were making "Pearl Harbor",they would have had ben Affleck taking off in a P51, then immediately being shown attacking the incoming Japanese Betty Bombers from his Navy Corsair cockpit, then crashlanding on Ford Island in his SBD bomber...

Midway is a joke movie.

IMHO

3.JG51_BigBear
02-13-2005, 12:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sapre:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Akronnick:
About the only thing that movie got right about the Airplanes it showed was that most of the USN planes were painted some shade of blue.

but to be fair, when this film was made, the technology to represent the correct planes wasn't available. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ever seen Tora Tora Tora? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tora Tora Tora is one of the best films ever made. It was unbelievably ambitious and done on a scale that no filmaker today would dare to dream of without computer animation and a host of other really fake looking ****. Although a lot of the planes in TTT are wrong (lot of texans got repainted for the film) they do an excellent job of using the right planes where it counts and leaving out a lot of the stock footage that finds its way into so many crapy WW2 movies.

Treetop64
02-13-2005, 01:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sapre:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Akronnick:
About the only thing that movie got right about the Airplanes it showed was that most of the USN planes were painted some shade of blue.

but to be fair, when this film was made, the technology to represent the correct planes wasn't available. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ever seen Tora Tora Tora? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tora! Tora! Tora! was a superb movie. Period. I still watch it sometimes. In fact, it was made before Midway.

Midway ripped many scenes from T. T. T. I saw the latter before seeing the former, and I must say that I was quite dissapointed with all of the inconsistencies, and cheapness, of Midway:

- American heavy carriers labeled as IJN carriers.

- Pilots taking off in one type of aircraft, but returning to deck - or crashing and burning - in a completely different type.

- Bombers and Torpedo planes flying to the target with no bombs or torpedos.

- The bad acting/scriptwriting: "...I'm an AMERICAN, dammit!" Or, "...but the thing is, I WANT that fourth carrier."

- IJN personnel speaking english. Now I understand that this movie was made primarily for english speaking audiences, but so was T.T.T. Considering the excellent job the crew of T.T.T. did with subtitling their Japanese scenes, accepting this was difficult.

- Too many more pot-shots to list here...

"Treetop"

Latico
02-13-2005, 01:53 PM
Technically, their isn't a single appearance of a Yorktown Class Carrier in the "Midway" movie. All of the airial shots of US carriers are of Post Korea era Essex Class with angle decks. I even saw a couple of instances of trying to pass US carriers off as IJN carriers.

jarink
02-13-2005, 02:51 PM
To me, the best part about TTT was that they used 2 different production units. One in the US, the other in Japan (actually a Japanese company). The Japanese crew went over the top (for the time) in re-creating the BB and CV sets. These were near-life size replicas constructed on the shore so they would have ocean in the background.

Yes, it had it's cheezy moments, like MG fire hitting loops of rope (so they had somewhere to hide the squibs), but overall it was both an excellent historically accurate film and a great technical achievement.

DHC2Pilot
02-13-2005, 03:33 PM
The main reason why TTT had so many T-6's representing Zero's is that there are only 2 flying Zero's in the world. There are a handful more that are in museums throughout the world, and a couple in the process of restoration, but that's it. I think TTT also had number of Vultee BT-15's representing B5N Kates. I'm not sure how many (if any) B5N's exist today. Searching the web I've found only references to wrecks and some incomplete airframes.

3.JG51_BigBear
02-13-2005, 04:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DHC2Pilot:
The main reason why TTT had so many T-6's representing Zero's is that there are only 2 flying Zero's in the world. There are a handful more that are in museums throughout the world, and a couple in the process of restoration, but that's it. I think TTT also had number of Vultee BT-15's representing B5N Kates. I'm not sure how many (if any) B5N's exist today. Searching the web I've found only references to wrecks and some incomplete airframes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just like that whatever is in the air is actually flying. It isn't some phoney computer generated stuff. Its amazing how far that technology has come but I think films use it far too much now. I like seeing the actual thing moving across the screen.

VF-29_Sandman
02-13-2005, 08:17 PM
did u happen to note that, the landing planes has drop tanks on? both the zero's and the wild/hellcats are shown. in the 1st strike, i noted that some of the japanese planes had torpedoes. hardly the proper ordanance for ground pounding.

where there were originally 4 wildcats in 1 frame, suddenly jumps to 3 times that number in the next when the engagement starts.

in 1 scene, there is a twin engine a/c exploding...a heinkel 'borrowed' from 'battle of britain'. on the last strike on the american carriers, there's a battleship that cuts loose with a broadside. at the time of midway, all our battleships were wrecked at pearl. on the final a/c formation on the american side, there's a corsair on the far right..blink and u might miss it.
they even have an 'american' plane, being chased, goin down in flames right at the water. and actually, it was a zero that's goin down.

mortoma
02-13-2005, 08:48 PM
Despite the errors, I always thought Midway was a fairly decent movie considering.

initjust
02-13-2005, 08:51 PM
Let's see, how does it go around here when someone has a complaint/critique about some aspect of PF?

Oh yeah, one of the canned responses is: "If you think you can do a better job do it yourself."

And another (this one is one of my favorites): "Why can't you just be happy with what you have?"

So, why can't you just be happy with the movie the way it is and if you think you can do a better job let us know when your full-length feature film version of the battle for Midway will be in the theaters and we'll all go watch it.

Fliegeroffizier
02-13-2005, 10:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by initjust:
.. why can't you just be happy with the movie the way it is ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's your point?

Some people like some movies, others like others. Sometimes they like to talk about what is good or bad about certain "historically-based" movies...

Many people interested in WWII history, specifically aviation aspects, frequent this forum for discussions...

You apparently don't enjoy such discussions...you are happy with Whatever movies you see, just as they are...and accept whatever they produce since you can't make a better movie yourself....that is Good! Very Fair...and "just"...


Now, if anyone else wants to get on with discussing the movie "Midway", pro or con, whether you liked it or didn't like it, whether you found it historically accurate or just a joke, I suggest we get on with the discussion.....

jarink
02-13-2005, 11:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by initjust:
So, why can't you just be happy with the movie the way it is and if you think you can do a better job let us know when your full-length feature film version of the battle for Midway will be in the theaters and we'll all go watch it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My problem with 'historical' movies is this: a lot of people see them under the impression that they are historically accurate when they are not. I can deal with some details being wrong (TTT for example, has the wrong model of P-40 in it), but when they are as bad as Midway or worse, I think it gives the general population and especially the young folk a bad sense of history. They see a jet fighter crash into the deck of a carrier in the movie "Midway" and think "what else did they get wrong?" Then when they see slickly made films like the recent "Pearl Harbor", they think "Wow, they really did a good job on this. It must be true!"

The problem with Midway was it was such a bad production, it should never have been released.

SuperFudd
02-14-2005, 12:28 AM
Tora Tora Tora, when made, was the 2nd most expensive movie ever made, not even including the deaths involved. It incuded full scale models of the Nagato's starbord side and a Jap carrier from the flight deck up. It was actually a pier, in Japan, that they actually launched aircraft from!
The Japanese aircraft, zeros, Vals and Kates, were "kitbashed' from Texans and that BT-whatever mentioned earlier. This was a HUGE effort.
As for the US aircraft, all but two of the P-40s, the two that actually flew, were full scale models, many powered. I assume the models were of the proper model but the two real P-40s were P-40Ns (I think).
Remember a scene where parked P-40s were being bombed and ground crews were scrambling for thier lives? They were actually scrambling for there lives! Not everything went off as planed.
Remember the B-17 that made a landing with one wheel not all the way down? That didn't happen 12/7/41 but it did happen while making the movie, so they used the footage. They used it again in Midway.
About Midway, it was made cheaply using footage from TTT (did you see the battleship tower inthe backgound at Midway?) and footage from a great, for it's time, Japanese movie that was shown in the US also, "I Bombed Pearl Harbor". The second half of that movie, made with great models, covered the Battle of Midway. I have the video.
In "Midway" it seems most of the films of Dauntless and perhaps Devastators was actually footage of Vindicators? Were Vidicators used on Pacific carriers in WWII?
Still, "Midway" was worthwhile (remember, it was cheap) as it told the true story of the battle farely well.

VF-29_Sandman
02-14-2005, 04:37 AM
1 thing that i did note was just how many pilot kills there were. i'm not saying that it would be easier to get a pk in rl vs pf. another thing was, when they were about to open fire, the japanese pilots were very close to their gunsite, and they didnt miss much. but then again, this is 6 months after pearl harbor, and the japanese also had quite a few of the expert fliers.

not many ww2 movies got close to what it would be like in the cockpits when u wound up gettin burned alive than in this 1. in the movie 'battle of britain', 1 of the british pilots had his hands severely burned while trying to eject from his flaming fighter.

initjust
02-14-2005, 11:44 AM
" What's your point?"

Think about it for a minute or two and it'll probably come to you....maybe.

Capt._Tenneal
02-14-2005, 12:02 PM
Here's a current blooper list from moviemistakes.com for Midway :

http://www.moviemistakes.com/film831

Sharkey888
02-14-2005, 12:34 PM
Boy I just had a bad thought-PF turned out to be the "Midway" of the IL2 series http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Anybody remember the Sesursound(?) at the original theater showing??

Capt._Tenneal
02-14-2005, 12:47 PM
I remember ! Boy, how many of them are left, aside from you and me that is ? I remember they used Sensurround on another Heston flick too, Earthquake. Also on Roller Coaster, another disaster movie. I was around 10 - 12 years old at the time and thought it was cool. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Stiglr
02-14-2005, 12:54 PM
This would likely be a good thesis paper for a film degree. Toting up the continuity, anachronism and factual errors in "Midway" would take years.

Easily one of the worst pieces of slimy garbage ever put to celluloid.

Sharkey888
02-14-2005, 01:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
This would likely be a good thesis paper for a film degree. Toting up the continuity, anachronism and factual errors in "Midway" would take years.

Easily one of the worst pieces of slimy garbage ever put to celluloid. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea but as an 10 year old the sounds and vibrations of the bombs and aircraft in my seat was just awesome.

Akronnick
02-14-2005, 05:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
This would likely be a good thesis paper for a film degree. Toting up the continuity, anachronism and factual errors in "Midway" would take years.

Easily one of the worst pieces of slimy garbage ever put to celluloid. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aw come on, some of the disaster movies that have come out in the last few years are much worse.

for example
Deep Impact: an asteroid is coming and we're all gonna die!

Volcano: It's gettin' really hot down in the subway, wonder what that's all about.

Armageddon: Another asteroid is coming and we're all gonna die, but it's got a good Aerosmith song.

The Day After Tomorrow: It's gonna get really, really cold really, really quickly, and its all your fault!

And my favorite, The Core: The center of the Earth has stopped spinning ...

Stiglr
02-14-2005, 07:19 PM
Yeah, but those disaster movies are based on a fantasy.

Midway was supposed to be about a real battle.

"Tora! Tora! Tora!" Now that... that was a movie!

SuperFudd
02-15-2005, 12:12 AM
About Midway's Sensaround, I have served on an aircraft carrier flight deck around turning up and taking off A-1 Sky Raiders and C-1 CODs. When that sensaround kicked in, I was back on the flight deck. The sound of those B-25s was spot on.

Krt_Bong
02-15-2005, 01:05 AM
And if you watch enough episodes of "Baa Baa Blacksheep" you'll see just about all the aircraft footage from all the above mentioned Midway, BoB, and Tora, tora, tora. There is one note to mention the A/c in most of these movies are not in great supply nowadays, in "Pearl" they actually built a Zero so it would be accurate and if you look closely there are a couple of Modded T-6's but they always placed the Real one in forground,The other Japanese A/c were shipped over from a European Country and were heavily insured as they were the most accurate replicas in the world still one clipped a palm tree and was written off(pilot walked away) P-40's are a little easier to come by but they are all N models or later mostly E models were on the ground at Pearl (but they were mock-ups in the Movie). Tora was and still is the definative Documentary war drama on the Dec.7th attack but the special computer effects of Pearl are incredible despite the impossible story of an Air Corps Pilot going from the Eagle Squadron to Pearl and then on Doolittle's Raid. If you want to see a reasonably accurate film on that see "30 seconds over Tokyo" (also a real good book) Most aviation movies that have been made are seldom worried about museum accuracy they want to capture the essence of the period and make a good story that will sell tickets, But it is noteworthy that many Japanese after viewing the recent Pearl Harbor were actually shocked and ashamed by the story despite the Hollywood treatment because they had not known the whole truth about what their country had really done.

jarink
02-15-2005, 11:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Krt_Bong:
...But it is noteworthy that many Japanese after viewing the recent Pearl Harbor were actually shocked and ashamed by the story despite the Hollywood treatment because they had not known the whole truth about what their country had really done. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How does "Pearl Harbor" provide any insights into the real events leading up to and during the actuall attack? Yes, it more graphically depicted the trauma that the defenders suffered than TTT, but that's a truth of war whether it's in a good movie or a bad one. You'd think they would have been more shocked by a movie like "Empire of the Sun".

Capt._Tenneal
02-15-2005, 12:16 PM
I must admit, I never get tired of watching TTT, however many times it runs on the History Channel http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. It's more like watching a documentary than watching a movie.

eddiemac0
02-15-2005, 07:19 PM
The thing about Pearl Harbor that upset me the most, was that when I saw the first preview in theatres was a quick fading cut of a dark cloudy sky, with grey airplanes flying toward other grey airplanes with what I swore was yellow on them... So, first thought was, "Yes! a BoB movie!" And then I t faded to black and back to a classic shot of zeroes, kates, and vals, meatballs bright and proud, going to Oahu. Then I wanted to soil myslef: "A WWII airwar highlights film!!!" But alas, my vision was soon shattered.... PH was ****, and I was absolutely furious when Ben went off to jolly old England and I saw that scene of him in his spit going against the 109s. A bad, bad trailer for a bad movie. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

And the love scene in the parachutes?

Krt_Bong
02-17-2005, 12:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jarink:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Krt_Bong:
...But it is noteworthy that many Japanese after viewing the recent Pearl Harbor were actually shocked and ashamed by the story despite the Hollywood treatment because they had not known the whole truth about what their country had really done. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How does "Pearl Harbor" provide _any_ insights into the real events leading up to and during the actuall attack? Yes, it more graphically depicted the trauma that the defenders suffered than TTT, but that's a truth of war whether it's in a good movie or a bad one. You'd think they would have been more shocked by a movie like "Empire of the Sun". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Perhaps in the same way that you watch the news and see only what they choose to show you and draw conclusions based on only the parts that you think you know and not upon the whole truth, kinda in the same way you pull a quote out of context and comment upon a small part and not the whole?

Hendley
02-17-2005, 01:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Krt_Bong:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jarink:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Krt_Bong:
...But it is noteworthy that many Japanese after viewing the recent Pearl Harbor were actually shocked and ashamed by the story despite the Hollywood treatment because they had not known the whole truth about what their country had really done. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How does "Pearl Harbor" provide _any_ insights into the real events leading up to and during the actuall attack? Yes, it more graphically depicted the trauma that the defenders suffered than TTT, but that's a truth of war whether it's in a good movie or a bad one. You'd think they would have been more shocked by a movie like "Empire of the Sun". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Perhaps in the same way that you watch the news and see only what they choose to show you and draw conclusions based on only the parts that you think you know and not upon the whole truth, kinda in the same way you pull a quote out of context and comment upon a small part and not the whole? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And very much like someone introducing the bizarre and patently silly notion that the nation of Japan was suddenly shocked into intense feelings of guilt by the cinematic tribulations of Ben Affleck? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Hollywood, bringing the Truth to the world...
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif