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Superjew1
12-22-2008, 11:17 PM
Ok Im a WWII Junky when it comes to games. I dunno about you but I dont find any conflict more interesting in Human history than WWII.

In FPS Day of Defeat source, I run the servers and can generally average a 3:1 or at the very least a 2:1 KD ratio, which is usually by far better than everyone else in the server (Ive been known to be a top ranked player when matched up against others in Day of Defeat)

In my RTS Company of Heroes, I had to lay the game down as I was only getting a 1:1 win/lose ratio, I wasnt satisfied that I was so easily getting beaten by a large portion of my opponents.

Whats a respectable KD ratio in IL2 Sturmovik that I as a n00b should hope to some day acheive? 2:1? 3:1? I dont know if Ill be able to keep up considering im just starting the game out and a lot of you have been playing it for 7 years since it came out.

Superjew1
12-22-2008, 11:17 PM
Ok Im a WWII Junky when it comes to games. I dunno about you but I dont find any conflict more interesting in Human history than WWII.

In FPS Day of Defeat source, I run the servers and can generally average a 3:1 or at the very least a 2:1 KD ratio, which is usually by far better than everyone else in the server (Ive been known to be a top ranked player when matched up against others in Day of Defeat)

In my RTS Company of Heroes, I had to lay the game down as I was only getting a 1:1 win/lose ratio, I wasnt satisfied that I was so easily getting beaten by a large portion of my opponents.

Whats a respectable KD ratio in IL2 Sturmovik that I as a n00b should hope to some day acheive? 2:1? 3:1? I dont know if Ill be able to keep up considering im just starting the game out and a lot of you have been playing it for 7 years since it came out.

VMF-214_HaVoK
12-22-2008, 11:44 PM
I have averaged about 14.0 k/d ratio or so over the past several years of playing in servers with stats.

I would say a respectable k/d ratio is 5.0 and above. That is my opinion however.



S!

ElAurens
12-23-2008, 12:14 AM
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2218/yodafailsg2.jpg

Jaws2002
12-23-2008, 12:33 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

BTW. Today I got a 1 to 1 K/D ratio in "Black Shark".



I killed 4 bearded mujahedins with old shoes and Ak-47's and I crashed in the hills four multi million dollars attack helicopters in the process.
That got to count for something, right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

I_KG100_Prien
12-23-2008, 12:45 AM
KD Ratio?

Don't know, and don't care.

Having a l33t K/D has nothing to do with my enjoyment of the game.

Sillius_Sodus
12-23-2008, 12:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by I_KG100_Prien:
KD Ratio?

Don't know, and don't care.

Having a l33t K/D has nothing to do with my enjoyment of the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto.

TinyTim
12-23-2008, 01:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by I_KG100_Prien:
KD Ratio?

Don't know, and don't care.

Having a l33t K/D has nothing to do with my enjoyment of the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. This is not a fps, it's a combat sim. Sometimes, getting in all alone with your IL2 (online of course), taking out some tanks, then and runing back home without ailerons, with a smoking engine and a squadron of 109s on your tail, dragging them into a trap for friendly fighters, and finally belly landing on home airstrip makes your day despite achieving 0 air to air kills...

Swivet
12-23-2008, 01:10 AM
I guess in a DF server one would like to rack up kills like trophy's. "Fly-kill-die-spawn" is no fun IMO, i'm just happy getting home alive... Co-ops, teamwork, multipart, multirole ground-pound missions are for me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif. Tho it is a blast getting into a furball. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

WTE_Ibis
12-23-2008, 01:41 AM
If that is your thing you're choosing the wrong game.

This has the smell of fish actually.

With that provocative sig which side do you intend to fly for?



.



.

jayhall0315
12-23-2008, 01:41 AM
First I agree strongly with Tiny Tim; this is not Quake and most guys who fly wouldnt want it to be. And any server you find that approaches that goal is usually to be avoided.

K/D ratio is intimately tied to what type of servers in Hyperlobby you are flying on. If you are a high-level Master and decide to waste noobs you might be able to achieve something like 25:1 over the course of a night (several hours), but on the other hand, no high-level Master would ever appear at the AAA or Skies of Fire server.

If you go to a decent server with closed cockpits and realistic settings (War Clouds or Spits versus 109s) and achieve anything above 3:1 and are getting back to base alive then you are doing very well. Even some of the best guys like OAC Kosh and FI-Gadje are only in the ratio of about 8:1 and these guys play hours a day.

If you want to actively seek guidance from some real bad asses, you might want to look up some of the guys on this list:

http://files.filefront.com/The+Masters+ListDec+Jan08pdf...63994;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/The+Masters+ListDec+Jan08pdf/;12663994;/fileinfo.html)

Just remember, IL2 is not Gears of War http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers - Jay

VMF-214_HaVoK
12-23-2008, 02:20 AM
Everyone deserves the right to play the game how they wish. This includes caring about certain things others do not. I play as a sim which is why my k/d is important to me. Now do I care what others k/d is? Absolutely not.

It should not matter the server one flies in jay. I actually achieved my best K/d ratios flying in Spits vs 109s and Zekes vs Wildcats.

As far as Gears of War goes you must have never played the game...lol. Its quite difficult and I have been only able to muster a 1.5 k/d after a month of game play. BTW IL2 is whatever the individual playing it wants it to be. There is not set rule on how to play it and gain enjoyment out of it.

I just dont think its right to critic someone who plays this game because they care about something you do not. It shows a snobish attitude and implies they should not be playing this genre or deserve too. What gives you the right to decide that? And if you do not care about such things why bother to post in this thread in the first place? I do not see why caring about your k/d ratio=quake arena? I have my best dogfights and experiences flying online with people who do care about their k/d ratio because they fly smart and use real world tactics. Its those who just dont care that give me the quake like mentality feeling you mentioned.

People like me who have been flying this sim sine 2001 have no problem gaining high k/d ratios actually.

rnzoli
12-23-2008, 02:55 AM
In flight sims, K/D ratios depend on how many times you can afford running away from fighting on equal or worse terms. Moreover, they reflect absolutely nothing for teamwork, which is actually an essential part of successful air-to-air combat.

jayhall0315
12-23-2008, 03:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
Everyone deserves the right to play the game how they wish. This includes caring about certain things others do not. I play as a sim which is why my k/d is important to me. Now do I care what others k/d is? Absolutely not.

It should not matter the server one flies in jay. I actually achieved my best K/d ratios flying in Spits vs 109s and Zekes vs Wildcats.

As far as Gears of War goes you must have never played the game...lol. Its quite difficult and I have been only able to muster a 1.5 k/d after a month of game play. BTW IL2 is whatever the individual playing it wants it to be. There is not set rule on how to play it and gain enjoyment out of it.

I just dont think its right to critic someone who plays this game because they care about something you do not. It shows a snobish attitude and implies they should not be playing this genre or deserve too. What gives you the right to decide that? And if you do not care about such things why bother to post in this thread in the first place? I do not see why caring about your k/d ratio=quake arena? I have my best dogfights and experiences flying online with people who do care about their k/d ratio because they fly smart and use real world tactics. Its those who just dont care that give me the quake like mentality feeling you mentioned.

People like me who have been flying this sim sine 2001 have no problem gaining high k/d ratios actually. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The picture with your signature does say something http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

....yes, I am sure K/D ratio is VERY important to you.

Kernow
12-23-2008, 03:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
In flight sims, K/D ratios depend on how many times you can afford running away from fighting on equal or worse terms. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep, and on what you fly. Stuka pilots tend not to have such good K/D ratios.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I have my best dogfights and experiences flying online with people who do care about their k/d ratio because they fly smart and use real world tactics. Its those who just dont care that give me the quake like mentality feeling you mentioned. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Havok, I do totally agree with your last sentence. However, with mission-based servers, like Spits or Zekes, the immersion depends upon a reasonable number of participants being prepared to take on the ground-pounding role - ie, making themselves targets for the enemy fighters. People who are overly concerned with their K/D tend not to put themselves at such risk.

You're right that considering K/D can encourage realistic behaviour (as a substitute for worrying about actual harm/death), but sometimes a good K/D is maintained by avoiding the 'dirty', hard work in servers which depend on someone being prepared to do it. Just a general comment, not an accusation aimed at anyone here.

Erkki_M
12-23-2008, 11:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by I_KG100_Prien:
KD Ratio?

Don't know, and don't care.

Having a l33t K/D has nothing to do with my enjoyment of the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You got it. I personally concentrate solely on surviving each sortie I "fly" - 7 kills on a single sortie means nothing to me if the was-almost-to-be-the-8th got me. Even if I had "just" bailed, I still consider the sortie a failure. Death was very close, after all.

Some servers, like Spits vs 109s, have team objectives which require some teamwork and bombing ground targets and/or ships. Unfortunately most of the people trying to achieve those objectives never return back home; the team winning the mission is most likely the one sending most planes in a one-way conga line attack. Of course the server statistics must encourage this by not showing K/D at all, and instead showing total scores only, as K/D can be "artifically increased", as the official statement goes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Of course, trying to always survive is not the only way. One can play the game as a war sim as well, trying to achieve objects and fulfill orders. It can be, and IS great fun, but prepare to get killed a LOT. Better for those who dont care about their precioussssssh stats.

If it was somehow possible, I'd keep my K/D as undefined(a division by zero is not defined). I think its around 30/1, with ~ kill per 35-40min, if bail-outs are counted. Its slowly getting down tho, with my flight hours/day. On more realistic servers K/D is less about "flying skillzor", the plane one chooses or gunnery, and more about situational awareness and patience. Fear the death, and you shall become fearsome. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I think ~4/1 is good. As roughly 50% of times the other guy or you will be able to bail out, 1-2/1 = you will shoot down as much as you wreck. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

LEBillfish
12-23-2008, 12:03 PM
Kill death ratio means EVERYTHING to me when I fly.

Though I fly 99.9% of the times coops, I like to fly them all like you really would. That means a LOT of running away, instantly disengaging when injured or the aircraft is damaged, doing all I can to RTB with ammo and fuel to spare, on and on.

Now it's tough to get into when this one is 1945 Pacific, just allied. The next 1941 Russia. The next 1943 Med. So though I still fly them the same, I really can't get into the ratio thing. What's a good ratio?

Well, if you added an extra number being sorties, so sorties:kills:deaths.....

10:0:0 is good
20:0:0 is great
50:0:0 is fantastic
100+:0:0 is tremendous

In kind;
1:10:1 is terrible, yet so would 1:200:1 be.....Upon a single death or capture, game over. Now it's great to get kills, yet the second I die once, it all resets in my mind. The only time a death ever acceptable though still resets it all is when I make a save of a team mate.

In fact, if I never got a kill and just made saves, yet survived that would be awesome.

In kind I the way I fly lose loads of kills to carp AI and players. The reason is I fly to make my objective, yet when fighting not get kills so much as sweep an area of all enemy. To that end as a matter of discipline, once I've crippled an aircraft and taken it out of the fight, I move onto the next fresh enemy, and again and again. Skies clear and have cover? Fine, then I might go drop my cripples.

I fight to dominate my airspace, not empty my guns on one aircraft while three others are setting up on me..........

It's my sky, my best advice is stay at your base enemy, as I'll fight like a Tiger to rid my territory of threats, and go after one of my teammates? Well, that's just threatening my cub.

1 sortie: 0 kills: 3 saves: 1 clear sky: 0 deaths........That's victory.

K2

Boosher
12-23-2008, 12:30 PM
I don't care what the first number is as long as the last number is zero.

Xiolablu3
12-23-2008, 12:47 PM
Its not really valid, a pilot who wins the map for his team has a much greater chance of being shot down, scouting down low for ground targets in a fighter bomber or even a bomber is going to have a much worse KD ratio than someone doing nothing for his team but flying around at 8000m far from the real objectives, but safe from enemy fighters.

A KD ratio is not really valid in this game, as some of the best players who specialise in ground attack and teamwork will have a much worse KD ratio than one who does nothing to help his team win the map.

The spirit of this game is not in KD ratios, but in teamwork to win the map, fighters covering fighter bombers nad bombers at a height they can attack the enemies gorund targes and win the map for the team. Not flying around at 8000m only coming down to shoot up other fighters.

What I am saying is that many of the best pilots will have lowish KD ratios, purely because they are flying for the team and not just themselves.

Example - Do you put yourself in danger to try and save a freindly bomber/fighter bomber, or do you worry about your KD ratio and stay where its safe?

This is precisely why any kind of 'elite pilots list' is useless if based purely on scores and KD ratios.

rnzoli
12-23-2008, 12:49 PM
it is much easier to keep the last number zero, if you fly only 10 sorties, than flying 100 sorties

my point is that absolute numbers are meaningless

trying to keep D/S ratio close to zero is a good thing though - but again, how many times can you run away, this is the question

rnzoli
12-23-2008, 12:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Example - Do you put yourself in danger to try and save a freindly bomber/fighter bomber, or do you worry about your KD ratio and stay where its safe? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I'll answer you: selfish cowards with a lot of time on their hand can be spotted by <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">extremely </span>high K/D ratios. These guys would be totally useless in a real armed conflict due to high risk aversion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Xiolablu3
12-23-2008, 12:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:


It should not matter the server one flies in jay. I actually achieved my best K/d ratios flying in Spits vs 109s and Zekes vs Wildcats.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Divine-Wind
12-23-2008, 01:01 PM
When I'm flying a co-op K/d means a lot to me. Especially the /d part.

I imagine most RL pilots might have felt the same. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

jayhall0315
12-23-2008, 02:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
..... The spirit of this game is not in KD ratios, but in teamwork to win the map, ..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What about the guy who floats at 3000m with the FW 190 and watches over less experienced teammates who start to get into trouble and then dives on their opposition ?

See this is why IL2 is so interesting; it has a wide range of opinions about every nuance. Here though, I respectively disagree with Xiolablu as IL2 can be a team experience (and for many it is) and yet, on the other side of the coin, it can also be you against other single opponents (and often is, even when you are flying with your team http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). If you dont have sound fundamentals and experience with managing your potential energy, what happens should you get broken off from your teammates in a furball ?

Can you pull your fair share of weight ? (which is what YOU need to do, in order to help win the map)

Many folks strongly feel that any 'Best Pilots' list is Bullcrap and any such list is pretentious and snobbery. While I fully understand the sentiment (and it does have its merits), it rings false for me.

Despite it sounding cocky, there are some real bad asses in this game, and some of them are loners and equally, some are also on teams. What makes them badasses though is their ability to handle their own aircraft without help or assistance from others. They are still bad asses whether they fly with their team or in single combat or in formal one on one duels. But the important point is that if the situation turns hot or the badass gets broken off from his friends momentarily, he can easily take out two or three guys on his own.

Two perfect examples are FI=Gadje and [OAC]_Kosh, both of whom are team fliers but they are even more deadly in one on one.

So the notion that some of the best pilots are those that help their teammates needs to be changed to; it is those that help their teammates by still being able to handle themselves very well if alone and are able to inspire fear in other teams that most help their teammates. (I guarantee you that if I am fighting the [OAC] team, my first priority will be to locate and keep track of Kosh and everyone else will be secondary on my list. This to me is when you really help you team)

Flying in large team formations also does not allow you to evaluate single opponents very well. It is only when you engage someone singularily in a close up nasty long dogfight that you can see if they dont stall, if they know the immelman, if they can pull a barrel roll while you ride their six, can accelerate with prop pitch only, can stand on the rudder and stall you out first, .... in short, can they out think you .

I run my own server and almost every night I fight several guys in a one on one format and also in teams with up to four guys per team, and I have found that there are two classes of nice guys that bring up red flags:

Guys that say, "I am good at bombing", are almost always (90%) very bad to tremendously bad pilots who have poor hand eye coordination, are older guys who might have been good in the past, or have little understanding of even simple tactics (chandelle, immelman, etc...). That does not mean I dont like them, or look down on them or think that teams dont also need bomber guys, and sure they have a place in the game; It just means that they cannot handle themselves well if they get broken off from their buddies and are in a lone fighter.

Next on the list the guy who says, "I am a good team player" which is analogous to that hottie in class who sits next to you and says, "Lets just be friends". A few of these guys turn out to be very good but most are average to mediocre pilots.

I understand that many dislike the idea of any arbitrary class system and feel it smacks of elitism, and I am no fan of the novel, 'Brave New World', but whether we want to admit it or not...

there are some real badasses in this game.

Jay

I_KG100_Prien
12-23-2008, 03:02 PM
...and such is the way of internet gaming.. well competition in general..

Who's the most bad ***..

If that's what floats yer boat.. cool beans.

Doesn't float mine... hence the tone of my first post in this topic: My personal outlook on it. Not trying to force it on anybody..

But the hidden message was that for a new player.. K/D ratio's are the last thing that need be worried about. K/D's come secondary, or maybe even tertiary to concentration on learning the basic game mechanics.

Everything else falls into place in due time.

Thekid321
12-23-2008, 06:04 PM
I'm a horrific lone fighter pilot(unless im in a zeke or spit http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif). I typically do ground attack missions. So my k/d ratio is terrible. This just being my opinion, I believe that fighter pilots who have high kill and high death numbers are good to have on a squad, just because they like to get in the fight.

I think its fun just ignoring your own safety and jumping in. Even if it ends badly.

Oh well. There are so many ways to come at this, its impossible to organize.

<span class="ev_code_RED">MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!</span> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Viper2005_
12-23-2008, 08:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Its not really valid, a pilot who wins the map for his team has a much greater chance of being shot down, scouting down low for ground targets in a fighter bomber or even a bomber is going to have a much worse KD ratio than someone doing nothing for his team but flying around at 8000m far from the real objectives, but safe from enemy fighters.

A KD ratio is not really valid in this game, as some of the best players who specialise in ground attack and teamwork will have a much worse KD ratio than one who does nothing to help his team win the map.

The spirit of this game is not in KD ratios, but in teamwork to win the map, fighters covering fighter bombers nad bombers at a height they can attack the enemies gorund targes and win the map for the team. Not flying around at 8000m only coming down to shoot up other fighters.

What I am saying is that many of the best pilots will have lowish KD ratios, purely because they are flying for the team and not just themselves.

Example - Do you put yourself in danger to try and save a freindly bomber/fighter bomber, or do you worry about your KD ratio and stay where its safe?

This is precisely why any kind of 'elite pilots list' is useless if based purely on scores and KD ratios. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1.

Some pilots are certainly much better than others, but IME the stats tell far from the whole story.

If you take two pilots of identical ability, the one who flies for K/D will inevitably do better by that metric than the one who flies for some other metric such as sortie completion or a2g kills or whatever.

The only way to really know who's good is to fly with them. Flying against them doesn't work because for an obvious if somewhat crass example, beating a bomber in a duel doesn't necessarily tell you a lot.

IMO the most interesting thing about IL2 is its diversity. The open cockpit, icons game is totally different from the full switch game. The a2g game is totally different from the a2a game, and both can be further sub-divided into numerous specialities. Some people specialise around a certain aircraft, other specialise to a certain mission. Some people are generalists.

Trying to decide who the best IL2 pilot therefore ends up being a bit like trying to decide who the best board game player is. One guy might be really good a chess, another might be really good at monopoly, and another might be great a scrabble. Who is "the best"? I don't think there's any objective way to decide.

I know that some players I regularly fly with and against are really good, but I couldn't really explain what that means rigorously beyond saying that in any given situation they get a better result for themselves and/or their team than the average player would. Some of them hit targets, and some of them fight a2a. Some will risk it all to get their buddies home, whilst others strive for personal survival at all times.

In the end, we're all playing our own game, and each of us individually has to decide whether our last sortie was good, bad or ugly. I think that probably 99.9% of my sorties could be better, which is why I keep on flying. If one day I learned "the secret" to flying perfectly, I'd probably give up IL2 in just the same way as I gave up Naughts and Crosses upon learning that it was basically deterministic, and that the optimum strategy could be described by a simple algorithm...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naughts_and_crosses

[edited to remove a typo]

ElAurens
12-23-2008, 09:37 PM
Well put sir.

Manu-6S
12-24-2008, 03:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Example - Do you put yourself in danger to try and save a freindly bomber/fighter bomber, or do you worry about your KD ratio and stay where its safe?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only stat I really care is K/D (divided by A2A and A2G). Why?

Because I try to fly like I have only one life.

About your example: depends...

The 3 rules are:

1) Think about your life
2) Think about the life of your teammates
3) Think about the mission

A good squad put every pilot in position to succeed. For example usually my squad use bombers at 7/8km because under that altitude the enemy fighters are better performing.

And then there are the air superiority matter: The guy at 8000m is not there to score for himself, but to protected the lower teammates.

Do you remember the time we fled together? I was at 5/6km over enemy territory bringing down enemies directed for the front: in that way I was helping my teammates taking out enemies from their missions.

Usually if I have problems I go in a shallow dive for home territory and I fight over that calling for reinforcement if I know I can't stand too much... If I succeed I return to enemy territory to hunt.

BUT... if our team is flying at 5km against soviet enemy and we spot a group of enemy planes under us, we fight as a team; if a guy loses energy and go in TnB with the enemies I go to save him ONLY if I'm totally secure of my safety.

Being in danger it's his fault. No heroes here.

Anyway my best K/D should be 7/1 on Spit/109 years ago... and most of my KIAs were ground collisions taxing on airfield, friendly fire and flak over enemy territory.

F19_Orheim
12-24-2008, 04:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Viper2005_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Its not really valid, a pilot who wins the map for his team has a much greater chance of being shot down, scouting down low for ground targets in a fighter bomber or even a bomber is going to have a much worse KD ratio than someone doing nothing for his team but flying around at 8000m far from the real objectives, but safe from enemy fighters.

A KD ratio is not really valid in this game, as some of the best players who specialise in ground attack and teamwork will have a much worse KD ratio than one who does nothing to help his team win the map.

The spirit of this game is not in KD ratios, but in teamwork to win the map, fighters covering fighter bombers nad bombers at a height they can attack the enemies gorund targes and win the map for the team. Not flying around at 8000m only coming down to shoot up other fighters.

What I am saying is that many of the best pilots will have lowish KD ratios, purely because they are flying for the team and not just themselves.

Example - Do you put yourself in danger to try and save a freindly bomber/fighter bomber, or do you worry about your KD ratio and stay where its safe?

This is precisely why any kind of 'elite pilots list' is useless if based purely on scores and KD ratios. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 (with exclamation point)
All depends on what ride you fly, why you fly etc. That beeing said, I have no problem with "stat flyers"... people must fly the way that gives them satisfaction. For me winning a map (meaning I often has to take high risks as a ground pounder) is why I fly and for some High K/D is the main puopose... no problem with that whatsoever..

Bearcat99
12-24-2008, 05:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Thekid321:
I'm a horrific lone fighter pilot(unless im in a zeke or spit http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most of us are... whether we admit it or not unless in a totally one on one situation.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I typically do ground attack missions. So my k/d ratio is terrible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The two are not synonomous. If you keep survival and mission objectives as your goal.. it is easier to survive.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This just being my opinion, I believe that fighter pilots who have high kill and high death numbers are good to have on a squad, just because they like to get in the fight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not necessarily because it could mean that they are simply point whor@s. IMO the best attribute for a squad member is the willingness to place one's squaddies and the mission over getting kills.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think its fun just ignoring your own safety and jumping in. Even if it ends badly.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

and there lies the rub eh..? See for me I dont want it to end badly... I want to come back and make that trap... preferably with my wingman. Even if I get no kills.

F19_Orheim
12-24-2008, 05:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I typically do ground attack missions. So my k/d ratio is terrible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The two are not synonomous. If you keep survival and mission objectives as your goal.. it is easier to survive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not synonymous no, but definatetely a strong connection and that you cannot deny. Flying low ground pounding definately makes you more vulnerable both form high attacks as from AAA.

Manu-6S
12-24-2008, 06:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
Not synonymous no, but definatetely a strong connection and that you cannot deny. Flying low ground pounding definately makes you more vulnerable both form high attacks as from AAA. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. The problem is how you fly to the target...

There are many guy who takes a single Tempest and attacks a target well defended by multiple flaks: if they comes out for that hell without damage they must still be afraid of enemy fighters (and then the cry that blue can play only killing ground pounders... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ).

Bomber's survival is strickly connected to cooperation between them and the fighters.

If I must fly bomber (in case of too many fighter in my side) I try to call all ingame bomber to a make a big single sortie. A lot depends by the IQ of pilots in the server and by the briefing.

For example some days ago I made a sortie on He111 with my squad (and I destroyed nothing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif): we rejoined at 3km on our territory waiting for other and called for escort. We climbed to 4500m and the single guy who escorted us scored one kill in safety: we all returned to base.

This is the problem of many servers: Cooperation... this can be done even in Dogfight server, but not all the pilots are smart enough to understand this.

Of course I keep talking about full difficulty server (sometimea with icons too).

JG52MadAdler
12-24-2008, 07:21 AM
Depends or what you fly Coops Vs DF's
Every Wednesday night 10:30 EST I host an on going campaign. BoB right now. All are welcome.
I log the stats for those who take the time to register. Getting home alive is the main goal. Pilots will not survive if they loiter looking for kills. I would say the average is two survived missions to 1 kill. The regular pilots are very experienced. Most since 2001.
Dont think DF aces would fair any better.

What ever floats your boat though.
This sim offers something for everyone
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/mb/capin?forum=76495