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View Full Version : Why Having an Opener of Sort is Needed(PSA with Video)



Awlkara
07-30-2018, 10:40 PM
https://youtu.be/p6qKxfOV1P0?t=6m36s

I have already put the video at the exact time of the issue that I am here to address. You can press play and skip right to the juicy part.

Having some form of unblockable or bash has become quite meta unless you look at Peacekeeper and Orochi who have neither. Orochi does not need it because he makes up for it with his fast lights though I still believe he should at least have an unblockable attack of a sort. As for Peacekeeper, we can scoot her under the rug as we will always do because God forbid she ever be remotely inline with the rest of the cast.

Although in this video is a very extreme example, this is an example of how impossible it can be to defeat a turtle without some way to open them up. Not every character needs to go about it in the same way but certain characters, like Shugoki who already needs help, suffer at the hands of a completely defensive player.

Now make this player an amazing Conquer or Lawbringer who will sit there all day waiting for you to attack but actually give them some form of offense for when you actually do mess up. Situations like this get way out of control.

I think that an opener, unblockable or a bash is needed for all characters so there can be something done about this.

I just really want all of the characters to be viable and hold their own.

Knight_Raime
07-31-2018, 12:33 AM
Giving everyone an easy access unblockable doesn't counter the defensive meta or solve the issue of strong defense. it ignores it. So no.
There are other fixes that can be made.

Darkmight_cz
07-31-2018, 02:17 AM
Giving everyone an easy access unblockable doesn't counter the defensive meta or solve the issue of strong defense. it ignores it. So no.
There are other fixes that can be made.

Exactly this

Awlkara
07-31-2018, 02:28 AM
Giving everyone an easy access unblockable doesn't counter the defensive meta or solve the issue of strong defense. it ignores it. So no.
There are other fixes that can be made.


Exactly this

Like what?

Mirage6201
07-31-2018, 02:51 AM
Like latency! That works on 4s. Just need that one player on WiFi with massive jitter. Jk but itís real.

Knight_Raime
07-31-2018, 03:17 AM
Like what?

Viable block strings. Meaning blocking an opening attack won't stop the aggression back to neutral in most cases. Combos usually are not long enough in this game. So it would be attack blocked into some kind of mix up. or just pressure in general. like blocking nobushi's hidden stance heavy gives her a kick which lets her continue mix up wise. Or rochi's blocked heavies leading to tri directional delayed 400ms lights which is pressure. If more heros had mix ups/pressure on block defensive play wouldn't be as easy to obtain.

Next step would be to make attacks have varied ms increments. Currently every attack is fixed to a 100ms increment. This was due to a very old mechanic (before it was removed) called time snap. Fixing everyone's attacks to 100ms increments makes it incredibly easy to master one timing to counter a lot of heros. If each person had different speed attacks then people would have to learn the match up a lot better. And thus blocking everything wouldn't be as easy as it is right now.

We'd also need to fix bugs/certain tactics that enable really safe defensive play. Instant guard switch bug lets static guard heros block everything on reaction. This is being fixed. dodge into unlock roll is a safe tactic that any hero can do that allows them to escape anything on reaction and actually punish the person attempting to punish them as if they'd actually read the situation right. Option selects at least on zones need to be fixed. as they allow someone again to handle a situation on reaction that should be based on read.

Awlkara
07-31-2018, 03:38 AM
Viable block strings. Meaning blocking an opening attack won't stop the aggression back to neutral in most cases. Combos usually are not long enough in this game. So it would be attack blocked into some kind of mix up. or just pressure in general. like blocking nobushi's hidden stance heavy gives her a kick which lets her continue mix up wise. Or rochi's blocked heavies leading to tri directional delayed 400ms lights which is pressure. If more heros had mix ups/pressure on block defensive play wouldn't be as easy to obtain.

Next step would be to make attacks have varied ms increments. Currently every attack is fixed to a 100ms increment. This was due to a very old mechanic (before it was removed) called time snap. Fixing everyone's attacks to 100ms increments makes it incredibly easy to master one timing to counter a lot of heros. If each person had different speed attacks then people would have to learn the match up a lot better. And thus blocking everything wouldn't be as easy as it is right now.

We'd also need to fix bugs/certain tactics that enable really safe defensive play. Instant guard switch bug lets static guard heros block everything on reaction. This is being fixed. dodge into unlock roll is a safe tactic that any hero can do that allows them to escape anything on reaction and actually punish the person attempting to punish them as if they'd actually read the situation right. Option selects at least on zones need to be fixed. as they allow someone again to handle a situation on reaction that should be based on read.

For the first point. I really like that, it would stop turtles from having the advantage. It really does stink that blocking a light just resets neutral, especially when they don't parry them ever.

I also did not know about this time snap for the second point that but would help out a lot.

Yeah, I talked to someone about that, it made it impossible to play Peacekeeper at the highest level because everyone would abuse it so I'd be stuck just in limbo. When is that being fixed by the way, the static guard bug? I'm not sure what you mean about option select zoning though. Can you explain that one?

Charmzzz
07-31-2018, 08:32 AM
For the first point. I really like that, it would stop turtles from having the advantage. It really does stink that blocking a light just resets neutral, especially when they don't parry them ever.

I also did not know about this time snap for the second point that but would help out a lot.

Yeah, I talked to someone about that, it made it impossible to play Peacekeeper at the highest level because everyone would abuse it so I'd be stuck just in limbo. When is that being fixed by the way, the static guard bug? I'm not sure what you mean about option select zoning though. Can you explain that one?

Option Select Zone is especially a PK thing because she has a 400ms Zone. The input for Zone is Light+Heavy Attack, you can use it every time an indicator shows up on your opponent:
- if he attacks from the side your guard is he will get parried because the Heavy Attack Button in the Zone input triggers the parry
- if he feints his attack he will get hit by the Zone Attack
- if he cancels into a dodge he will get hit by your Zone Attack 90% of the time
- if he uses a Bash he will get hit out of it by your Zone Attack

Best Zones to do this: PK, Kensei, Orochi (fast with a low recovery and only one hit or second hit can be canceled)