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View Full Version : Comprehensive Peacekeeper Rework Idea and Concerns(Ubi please read this)



Awlkara
07-28-2018, 03:49 PM
Disclaimer: I've never used the old broken Peacekeeper so I will not speak for anything that she could do before then. I am someone who bought the Gold Edition of this game but quit 2 weeks again due to how horrible it was. That being said do not bring up anything about Peacekeeper before Season 6 to me. She's not in a good spot and I've met plenty of other duelists who don't even play her and told it to me first while it was common knowledge to me.

Also this is a TL;DR, if you have a short attention span then I am sorry. I wish to bring up actual reasons for why PK has been left behind. I do not care for how she used to be, apparently she was very broken and that was ONLY because of her damage promoting a turtle based playstyle which I understand and that should be nerfed.

I hope that those who might actually respond don't talk about past Peacekeeper because that one is gone forever. I don't like the idea of any hero being underpowered but I speak for PK because I really want to like her but her kit is just far too weak comparatively.

In this thread I will be comparing her to the likes of not only other assassins but other classes to justify my reasons for doing the reworks that I think she should have.

Keep in mind this is only my opinion and is subject to change and discussion. I do not view my word as absolute. This is only my viewpoint from someone who actually has a long history of playing fighting games. Yes I've even gone to local tournaments in the areas that I have lived in and I value balance. I do not speak only as a For Honor player but an honest member of the FGC due to my large fighting game background.

I am also playing this on PC where it is 60 FPS as opposed to consoles where it is 30. That means you can literally see the lights 100% more easily than on console.

Let's start off with her dodge attack. Currently Peacekeeper is the ONLY character in the game who cannot continue pressure via chain after a dodge attack. She is forced to sit there and reset her pressure which also resets her attack speed. All of the other heroes transition into their chains or flows allowing them to keep the pressure going and stay on the opponent. These heroes that all have this minus Peacekeeper goes as follows: Gladiator, Shaman, Valkyrie Berserker, Kensei, Orochi, and Nobushi. Now if we were to include those who can initiate an unblockable out of a dodge which would give them a guaranteed hit then we would also add Warden, Conquer,and Shinobi. This is just one of the ways that Peacekeeper has stayed outdated compared to the rest of the cast.

She is also has an abysmal W+Spacebar attack despite being an assassin. She has no reason to dash forward and then do her lunging attack, it is way too telegraphed and makes it too easy to block and see coming and is almost near useless. Gladiator, Shaman, Kensei, Orochi, Berserker, Valkyrie, and Aramushi all do this much faster and it is a viable way to end rounds and get in decent damage from far away. I personally believe that the dodge forward should be taken out of the W+Spacebar unless it is being used as a soft feint in which case that makes sense because as of right now, using her W+Spacebar in neutral is a free parry because it takes far too long. One could argue that she can mixup for a GB but that is a moot point in and of itself because what about a Peacekeeper would promote you to dodge when you know it's going to either be a top heavy or a GB? You just stand there and take mixup and she what she does.

Now we talk about her Dagger Cancels. As it stands, her Dagger Cancel or DC as I will be calling it is a soft feint attack that only goes to the top. Comparing it with Shaman, Shaman has the ability to do her DC not only from the top but in all directions as well. They both can do it from Zone and Heavy attacks and it's much better yet for Shaman, her DC is a part of her flow so she can continue to attack without any sort of break. I do believe that Peacekeeper should have access to it as well. Both DC being a part of her flow and being able to cancel it in any direction as well to help with her mixup. I do not mean to break her so I say this, her DC from the left or right should be 500ms to equal it out with what Shaman can do because 500ms is obvious enough to anyone but it stops Peacekeeper from being way too predictable. The characters that can also do this aside from Shaman would be Kensei and Aramushu, both of which can feint in any direction from a heavy and yet still continue to do their attacks as a part of a chain. Why Peacekeeper must be kept from continuing any sort of pressure remains a mystery to me when offensive pressure is all she has at this point. I do say that Peacekeeper's DC needs to be a part of a chain or flow so she can continue to attack in any sort of way that she needs to without taking that small pause.

Next to discuss are Peacekeeperr's chains and flow. She only has 3, that's right, only 3 ways to attack and if she does a DC then she takes a long pause and must restart her chain from the beginning.The chain reset and of itself isn't the bad part but I will get to that later. To keep things simple I will use the letter L for lights and H for heavies when discussing this as to not over do anything. Peacekeeper's Strings go as follows: LLH, LH, HH and HL if you wish to include a DC but that is not a chain at all. Now if we look at Kensei, who is a Vanguard which is not supposed to be that mixup heavy because they are front liners, he has LLL,LLH,LHH,HHH,HHL,HLL,HLH, and LHL. That's insane considering his damage, tankiness, armor and the homing on nearly all of his moves and his speed. Now we bring up Shaman, while she also appears to be limited, she is different due to the fact that her moves all flow together without pause. Her DC is just a part of her moves and she can still follow up with an insane amount of mixup due to her constant pressure. Though her movelist looks limited, her flow allows her to be far more complex than Peacekeeper simply due to the fact that she doesn't need to take a break attacking after doing her own DC since her DC doesn't really interrupt her attack flow, she can continue attacking without a delay due to the fact that her DC doesn't make her take a pause. I've been able to completely break down opponents with near unstoppable pressure because of how smoothly and quickly her moves flow together where I am able to wail on people for at least 3 seconds before they finally block an attack and this is including her DC from the first heavy. Peacekeeper has maybe 1 second of pressure at best and that's if she doesn't DC.

The next topic would be unblockables. This one is relatively short. I believe every hero should have unblockables. The only ones who don't are Orochi and Peacekeeper. Orochi makes up for it with amazing defensive tools, an amazing zone that doesn't need to be feinted so he can conserve stamina, and incredible lights. That being said I still believe that he too, should have an unblockable. If you are faced with an adept Conquer or anyone who turtles, opening them up is nearly impossible, especially if they have a static guard. I've met plenty of people who could react to my zone, know when I will and won't DC and there playstyles reduce me to turtling. They end up forcing me to rely on dodge attacks and parries in order to get any sort of damage. This going without saying that every hero needs an unblockable in some form. For Peacekeeper I believe she needs an unblockable shove of any sort so she can have some sort of way to open her opponents up. At the higher levels of this game it's insane how good people are at blocking everything, especially the turtles. With how the new faction is, especially Tiandi, you can see the importance of unblockable shoves and how it is very meta to have one. I believe Peacekeeper needs a shove that gives her a confirmed light and that Orochi needs an unblockable in some shape or form. Otherwise they are helpless before anyone who can actually see what they are doing. On PC that number is greater than it is few in my own experiences.

Next we talk about her damage. This one is simple as well. Her initial heavies should do 25 damage so she can at the very least, execute someone if they are on their last bar. Her damage is very low but that would not even be an issue given then buffs that I think she should have above. 25 damage heavy is just so she can actually execute on will if someone is on their last bar of health. I personally think her damage should be lower so those who play her would be more inspired to do mixups instead of turtling.

Last is her stamina usage. If I cancel my zone I easily consume a third of my stamina. After using plenty of heroes, I have stamina issues with her the most. I am often limited to maybe 2 or 3 H into DC or one zone cancel before I find myself almost out of stamina. Feinting her heavies also costs her a bunch of stamina as well. I do believe she should have her stamina costs reduced if she is going to do such a low amount of damage.

The Peacekeeper I can envision is one while despite doing low damage, has ways to mixup her opponent, keep them on their toes without overwhelming them with things that would be unfair. A Jack-of-All-Trades type. She should have really good mixup but you have to put in work for it because her low damage.

Peacekeeper is a really cool design and it sucks to see a character I like so much in such a state. To those that actually read all of this thanks.

UbiJurassic
07-28-2018, 09:09 PM
Thanks for taking the time to write up and share this detailed proposition concerning suggestions you have for the Peacekeeper!

What do other players think of Xondah's thoughts? Is there anything others that disagree with his points or do you feel the points raised adequately address potential concerns with Peacekeeper?

Darkmight_cz
07-28-2018, 09:54 PM
Thanks for taking the time to write up and share this detailed proposition concerning suggestions you have for the Peacekeeper!

What do other players think of Xondah's thoughts? Is there anything others that disagree with his points or do you feel the points raised adequately address potential concerns with Peacekeeper?

I sweared to myself that I will not respond to another PK main topic shouting for buff but OK. The think is that PK right now is just fine she is not god tier anymore but she is not trash ether. But PK mains get used to that she was on top charts mostly. So now when she is put into normal level every PK just raging to buff her - makes me laugh. There is bunch another heroes who needs buff or rework assap.

Awlkara
07-28-2018, 10:17 PM
I sweared to myself that I will not respond to another PK main topic shouting for buff but OK. The think is that PK right now is just fine she is not god tier anymore but she is not trash ether. But PK mains get used to that she was on top charts mostly. So now when she is put into normal level every PK just raging to buff her - makes me laugh. There is bunch another heroes who needs buff or rework assap.

You did not read my thread at all, not even the disclaimer.

I don't know what PK was like before Season 6.

Darkmight_cz
07-28-2018, 10:27 PM
You did not read my thread at all, not even the disclaimer.

I don't know what PK was like before Season 6.

So what's the point? Iam talking about where she is now and she is nowhere near bottom of the charts. She is fine. Also man I have read your topic and disagree with many things for instance her forward dash att is the same as others maybe except Kensei helm spliter all of those moves are highly telegraphed and almost unusable on high level plays and that is just example. I wrote about PK a lot even others did coz its like daily topic. Every day some PK main complaining. Pls compare PK to other chars and tell me she needs buffs assap its nonsence sorry.

Awlkara
07-28-2018, 10:33 PM
So what's the point? Iam talking about where she is now and she is nowhere near bottom of the charts. She is fine. Also man I have read your topic and disagree with many things for instance her forward dash att is the same as others maybe except Kensei helm spliter all of those moves are highly telegraphed and almost unusable on high level plays and that is just example. I wrote about PK a lot even others did coz its like daily topic. Every day some PK main complaining. Pls compare PK to other chars and tell me she needs buffs assap its nonsence sorry.

If you read my thread, I did nothing but comparisons and made that the main focus of my topic.

You are showing and proving that you did not read the thread at all.

Darkmight_cz
07-29-2018, 12:00 AM
If you read my thread, I did nothing but comparisons and made that the main focus of my topic.

You are showing and proving that you did not read the thread at all.

Omg I read your thread I even gave you example where are you wrong one of many. I can continue but it's 2am Iam at work and I don't have time, taste and even energy for it. I appreciate your effort you put into this topic but in many ways you are wrong. In worst case PK is B+ or A- tier but more precisely she is viable. As I said many times there is bunch of other heroes who needs buff or rework assap. If you don't agree find another threads from last few days and there are many points why is she fine at the moment coz Iam done. But I think that you and other PK mains just don't want to hear it. So I wish you good luck with complaining. See you on battlefield.

Awlkara
07-29-2018, 12:49 AM
Omg I read your thread I even gave you example where are you wrong one of many. I can continue but it's 2am Iam at work and I don't have time, taste and even energy for it. I appreciate your effort you put into this topic but in many ways you are wrong. In worst case PK is B+ or A- tier but more precisely she is viable. As I said many times there is bunch of other heroes who needs buff or rework assap. If you don't agree find another threads from last few days and there are many points why is she fine at the moment coz Iam done. But I think that you and other PK mains just don't want to hear it. So I wish you good luck with complaining. See you on battlefield.

Can you bring them up to me? I've been lurking the forums and I've heard no such thing. The only point you've brought up is a flat out lie.

Pk's W+Spacebar literally forces you to dodge at the opponent instead of being a straight forward attack.

Feel free to direct me to those.

I've just went against the only real point you've brought up.

Like i've said before, I never played Peacekeeper before her nerf so that really doesn't apply to me. I just know a bad character when I see one. Even non PK mains and I have talked about how bad she is.

dinosaurlicker
07-31-2018, 05:44 AM
I think that not much needs to be changed, but I firmly believe they need to add an additional effect to her bleed. She’s the only character with useless bleed. Shaman heals, Nobu dmg buffs, for shinobi it balances the insane dmg of the deflect so it isn’t burst, glad it makes the ticks of the skewer all come at the sane time while still allowing people to choose how many, but pk it’s a straight nerf. Pk has low *** damage since rework so making it 50% bleed damage is horrible.

I suggest that we make PK’s bleed give enemies a damage debuff. This would solidify her identity and role as “peacekeeper” and better enable her to single out targets for assassination

Charmzzz
07-31-2018, 08:42 AM
Xondah just stop. Go back 1-2 Pages in the forum, you will find plenty of PK Threads. Most people will tell you she is "fine" now. But those people mostly play Meta-Heroes like Raider, Lawbringer, Kensei and Conq. None of those guys saying she is fine now (except Knight_Raime) even plays her.

Just stop trying here. Dev's will give a sh*t about it anyway, people will call you a crying PK Main who wants her to be OP. That's what happened to me several times now.

I opened a Support Ticket and several Threads about PK having a massive Bug since the removal of Timesnap back in 2017. They literally destroyed ALL her mixups. Nothing was done until her "Rework" where they sold us the fixed Mixups as "new Moves". Then added massive Nerfs and gave nothing new except the Dagger Cancel for Mosquito-like Damage.

Just drop her. She is probably the worst Assassin (maybe on par with Gladiator). Everyone else is plain better. Zerker and Orochi got their Reworks and are in very good spots. Shaman is on par with them, Shinobi maybe a bit lower than those 3.

Awlkara
07-31-2018, 11:11 AM
This is that sad time in my life where I play both Gladiator and Peacekeeper.

I mean, you are right though. It sucks that someone so cool just got destroyed so hard under a false pretense of a "rework".

You're right though, it's more or less futile now.

Charmzzz
07-31-2018, 12:13 PM
This is that sad time in my life where I play both Gladiator and Peacekeeper.

I mean, you are right though. It sucks that someone so cool just got destroyed so hard under a false pretense of a "rework".

You're right though, it's more or less futile now.

Gladiator is likely to be buffed due to his Winrate (45% in Duel and even lower in 4v4), Dev's already stated that.

Soldier_of_Dawn
07-31-2018, 03:02 PM
I agree with the following points from Xondah about the PeaceKeeper:

1) PK needs more chains. This would allow for more Dagger Cancel (DC) options and help compensate for her low damage if she won't get a damage buff. However, a small damage buff wouldn't hurt... much. ;)

2) More of PKs attacks should initiate chains. Her Dashing Trust, Sidestep Strike, and Zone Attack should be able to initiate chains. This would allow for better combat flow, more DC options, and help reduce PK's need to turtle.

3) PK and the Orochi should have unblockable attacks / every character should have an unblockable attack of some form. When facing turtles, the Orochi and PK are forced to change their playstyle dramatically and typically adopt a turtle style themselves since every attack can be defended against at higher levels. The flow of combat is slowed down and starring contests can take place which, for many players, is frustrating and boring.

4) Reducing PK's stamina cost on her zone attack is a good idea as that would allow her to maintain pressure.

5) Increasing the damage of PK's initial heavy attacks to 25 damage sounds fine but you should bear in mind that bleeding can be stacked. Also, if she gets more chains and chain starters then it would be easier for her to stack bleeding with the increased DC options that would come from it. I would go along with it but it may need to be nerfed back down later on.

Awlkara
07-31-2018, 08:55 PM
That's really good.

I took like a year plus break and got back into things around 3 weeks ago. Warms my heart hearing that.

Thank you.

Soldier_of_Dawn
08-01-2018, 01:39 PM
You're not alone, Xondah! Check out these recent threads:

Peacekeeper buff:
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1914713-Peacekeeper-buff

Peacekeeper rework:
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1915039-Peacekeeper-rework

Suggestions For Peacekeeper:
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1913974-Suggestions-For-Peacekeeper

SkyNet-379
08-03-2018, 05:06 AM
WTF with dmg overnerf? You litterally can not heal via your executions in a team fight cause you didn't make 2-3 hp damage to get to KO (it's either stolen afterwards, or enemy dies moment later cause of stupid bleed), her side step and dash heavy is weaker than valkyre's LIGHT ffs not even mentioning other chars. (and keep in mind that my gear is attack dmg based and it's still weaker than 0 lvl geared valk how dumb is that?)

Yeah she has one extra stab afterwards (which any decent player learnt to block by now) and it's still DUMB bleed damage which only takes effect LATER. Ffs I'd gladly trade removal of bleed for fixed damage, it's not like PK is gaining anything from her bleed like other bleed inflicting chars anyway, oh exept giving enemy time to execute you and REGAIN hp metagating that useless bleed damage ofcourse.

Playing_Mantis
08-03-2018, 05:28 AM
pk has always been strong and still is very strong. i hope she won't get more buffs to be honest.

Charmzzz
08-03-2018, 08:25 AM
pk has always been strong and still is very strong. i hope she won't get more buffs to be honest.

Still very strong?

Shaman, Zerker, Conq, Kensei, Orochi, Highlander, Warden and Valk say "No" to this. They ALL got something of this:
- New Chains (PK: 0)
- An Unblockable (PK: 0)
- An Undodgeable (PK: 0)
- Hyperarmor (PK: 0)
- New Soft-Feints (PK: 1 - they only fixed her Soft-Feints which were broken for 6+ months and added the possibility to Soft-Feint-Dodge)
- New Moves (PK: 1 - Dagger Cancel now useable but deals Mosquito Damage)

Then they nerfed almost EVERY Attack of her. Literally. Zone, Light, Heavy, Dodge Attack, everything nerfed damage-wise.

Now GTFO and play your reworked Orochi and your super strong Shaman. Yes, I am mad. Mad that PK got shafted while every other Rework except Nobushi gave the Characters something.

Awlkara
08-03-2018, 01:24 PM
Still very strong?

Shaman, Zerker, Conq, Kensei, Orochi, Highlander, Warden and Valk say "No" to this. They ALL got something of this:
- New Chains (PK: 0)
- An Unblockable (PK: 0)
- An Undodgeable (PK: 0)
- Hyperarmor (PK: 0)
- New Soft-Feints (PK: 1 - they only fixed her Soft-Feints which were broken for 6+ months and added the possibility to Soft-Feint-Dodge)
- New Moves (PK: 1 - Dagger Cancel now useable but deals Mosquito Damage)

Then they nerfed almost EVERY Attack of her. Literally. Zone, Light, Heavy, Dodge Attack, everything nerfed damage-wise.

Now GTFO and play your reworked Orochi and your super strong Shaman. Yes, I am mad. Mad that PK got shafted while every other Rework except Nobushi gave the Characters something.

I love how all of the people saying PK is fine or in a good spot don't even play her at a high level.

It's hilarious.

Soldier_of_Dawn
08-03-2018, 02:57 PM
I agree with the following points from Xondah about the PeaceKeeper:

1) PK needs more chains. This would allow for more Dagger Cancel (DC) options and help compensate for her low damage if she won't get a damage buff. However, a small damage buff wouldn't hurt... much.

2) More of PKs attacks should initiate chains. Her Dashing Trust, Sidestep Strike, and Zone Attack should be able to initiate chains. This would allow for better combat flow, more DC options, and help reduce PK's need to turtle.

3) PK and the Orochi should have unblockable attacks / every character should have an unblockable attack of some form. When facing turtles, the Orochi and PK are forced to change their playstyle dramatically and typically adopt a turtle style themselves since every attack can be defended against at higher levels. The flow of combat is slowed down and starring contests can take place which, for many players, is frustrating and boring.

4) Reducing PK's stamina cost on her zone attack is a good idea as that would allow her to maintain pressure.

5) Increasing the damage of PK's initial heavy attacks to 25 damage sounds fine but you should bear in mind that bleeding can be stacked. Also, if she gets more chains and chain starters then it would be easier for her to stack bleeding with the increased DC options that would come from it. I would go along with it but it may need to be nerfed back down later on.

Additionally I would:

6) Allow PK to cancel her Zone Attack with a Dodge, Dashing Trust and Sidestep Strike.

7) Allow PK to cancel Dashing Thrust with a Sidestep Strike or a Dodge.

8) Allow PK to cancel Sidestep Strike with another Sidestep Strike, Dashing Thrust, or a Dodge.

The above cancel options would give her more flexibilty, make her less predictable, and help reprevent her from being too reliant on her Dagger Cancels to confuse her opponents. In some cases they would be good for baiting deflects as well.

9) Speed up her initial heavy attacks by 100ms or 200ms to give her a guaranted heavy attack from a GuardBreak. This would make it easier for her to land executions and improve her wall splat punish.

10) Consider speeding up the Dashing Thrust by 100-200ms to help improve her wall splat punish.

11) Fix the bug or change the design where PK can't land an execution while bleed is active. This is more of a pain in team battles since executions help restore HP and add a timer penalty to the opponent who got executed.

Soldier_of_Dawn
11-13-2018, 08:40 AM
12) Give PK dodge light attacks which are the same speed as the quickest dodge lights and only do bleed damage.

13) Give PK a heavy deflect that is unblockable/guaranteed, does 25 damage, deals double bleed damage.

14) Make PK's dodge heavy attacks feintable and give them dodge cancel options, e.g dodge and dodge attacks.

15) This is in reference to my first point, consider giving PK an infinite chain to allow full flexibility with her mix-ups and Dagger Cancel options. This would help her stack bleed more.

Goat_of_Vermund
11-13-2018, 09:43 AM
Reading back this topic is so funny. Every pk player instantly understood how useless she became, and everyone called us noobs because they hated the character.

The truth is, pk needs rework just as much shugoki or lawbringer. Far more than raider, aramusha or others. If they rework 3, she must be one of them.

iadvisoryi
11-13-2018, 01:40 PM
I sweared to myself that I will not respond to another PK main topic shouting for buff but OK. The think is that PK right now is just fine she is not god tier anymore but she is not trash ether. But PK mains get used to that she was on top charts mostly. So now when she is put into normal level every PK just raging to buff her - makes me laugh. There is bunch another heroes who needs buff or rework assap.

No. No. No. In dual she's VIABLE. In 4v4s dont even try. All her bleed mix goes high, her lights are reactable and a lot of the time easily parryable. The only time she exceeds an opponent is one with lack of mobility/range, because then pk can dance her way around her opponents on every attack.

The people who say "oh she just needs damage on her heavy" no, she never benefits off of heavies, ever unless it's her Dodge attack.

Not to mention, SHES BORING to play. Tiny kit with mix that is all the same. Tiandi and nuxia have small kits but multiple different cancels and moves to make the characters fun, complete opposite for pk. We want her reworked to make her fun and unique, she's been overshadowed by most assassin's especially shaman.

Soldier_of_Dawn
11-25-2018, 03:52 PM
Testing...