PDA

View Full Version : OK, need advice on a new VIDEO CARD



SkyChimp
10-17-2004, 03:10 PM
With PF coming out, I'm gonna updrage from my trusty Ti-4600.

My system has a P4, 2.26 ghz, 1024 meg DDR ram.

So, what's the best one out there right now?

SkyChimp
10-17-2004, 03:10 PM
With PF coming out, I'm gonna updrage from my trusty Ti-4600.

My system has a P4, 2.26 ghz, 1024 meg DDR ram.

So, what's the best one out there right now?

Yellonet
10-17-2004, 03:32 PM
The best ones out right now is ATI X800 XT Platinum Edition, (which I think is a bit(sometimes much) faster over all) and nVidia 6800 Ultra which supports shader model 3.0 (can show the new PF water).

Obi_Kwiet
10-17-2004, 03:36 PM
You won't notice the diffrence bettween 80 and 90 fps. Get the PS 3.0.

LeChuck59
10-17-2004, 03:37 PM
Most will tell you, and I agree, that the 6800 GT is the best bang for the buck right now. It's settling now around $350 which, depending on your budget, is a fantastic deal. BFG, Evga, Leadtek, PNY are all solid brands, and really, it's the same card no matter who's box it's in. Furthermore, most every GT can overclock to Ultra speeds easily with the coolbits registry tweak. I have a GT from Evga overclocked to 400/1100 and I get solid fps in every game out there at 16x12 at max detail. That includes FB, Doom 3, FarCry, Dawn of War, Rome: Total War, etc. The X800 Pro isn't a bad card either, but it costs about the same right now and is almost universally out performed by the GT.

Yellonet
10-17-2004, 03:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
You won't notice the diffrence bettween 80 and 90 fps. Get the PS 3.0. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In some areas the X800 XT PE is twice as fast as the 6800 Ultra.. but if you're only gonna play PF I guess you'd want SM3.

BBB_Hyperion
10-17-2004, 03:39 PM
PS 3.0 is used for PF until ATI cards support it it may take some time. So even when i use ATI at the moment nVidia with pixelshader 3.0 may make a difference for PF optics.

LeChuck59
10-17-2004, 03:45 PM
Here's a review of a 6800 Ultra that has IL-2 performance charts for all four top level cards, the 6800 Ultra, the 6800 GT, the X800 XT and the X800 Pro. You'll see that the GT beats the Pro substantially at stock clock settings. You'll also see that the Ultra and XT put up almost the same numbers. Now remember what I said about GT's easily and safely overclocking to Ultra clock speeds and you'll see that a GT competes nicely with the XT and is $100 cheaper.

Now, for some idea of how the cards will perform in a next generation engine along the lines of BoB look at these numbers from Counter-Strike: Source which uses Valve's new Source engine...
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/counter-strike_source/page5.asp
Again the GT whomps the other cards in price for performance.

Now that's not always the case. Sometimes, like in Lomac, the XT comes out on top by a smidge over the Ultra, but over all, the GT is the best buy.

VW-IceFire
10-17-2004, 04:45 PM
Seeing as you have a nVidia card...if you are happy with their drivers and support...go for the 6800GT. I hear thats the best buy right now. If I were in the market, I would give it serious attention.

I like the ATI solution as well...the X800's are quite good. But a few advantages/disadvantages for each side.

owlwatcher
10-17-2004, 04:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyChimp:
With PF coming out, I'm gonna updrage from my trusty Ti-4600.

My system has a P4, 2.26 ghz, 1024 meg DDR ram.

So, what's the best one out there right now? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Looks like upgrading maybe more then a just a video card.
You will need a balance of CPU speed to video card. High end VC require high end CPU to run.
Just a thought

SkyChimp
10-17-2004, 05:12 PM
I don't plan on upgrading my 2.26 P4. In fact, I won't be upgrading for BoB either. I'll need something far mor exciting than BoB for me to get a whole new system. Korea would do it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Anyway, I think one of the most common things people here do is OVERestimate the power they need to run a game well. When IL2 first came out, I ran it on the highest settings with a P3 600mhz, 512 meg, 64mb Gforce 3 card. I run FB on my current system on perfect and get very good frame rates even over cities. I've got every confidence that my system will handle PF just fine. But I would like to see the nice water.

MagnumHK
10-17-2004, 05:54 PM
How could the water look any better then it is in Perfect mode right now?

SkyChimp
10-17-2004, 06:39 PM
The water will be different in PF. Oceans swells, white caps, that sort of thing.

RedDeth
10-17-2004, 06:46 PM
I bought the 6800 GT overclocked by BFG to 380 clock from 350 . it runs 60 to 90 fps in perfect mode WHILE im hosting games.

it is optimized for the new directX 9.0C and also for the new 3.0 shaders in P.F.

its about 350 now if you shop right.

it blows away the ATI X800 PRO on all tests ive seen. and for P.F. and DOOM 3 ATI cant compare. even the 500 buck X800 XT PLATINUM cant compare to the 6800GT.

ps the GT can be overclocked to ULTRA levels. and the GT does fine on a 300 watt power supply and only requires one video card slot.

the ultra recommends 480 watt power supply and 2 slots needed

SkyChimp
10-17-2004, 07:54 PM
Alright. I need a compu-geek to help me here.

My system is a HewletPackard Pavilion 762. The only thing I've ever done to it is increase the memory. It's currently got a Ti-4600 card.

6800 GT system requirements:

1) Intel Pentiumâ® III, AMDâ"ž˘ Duron or Athlonâ"ž˘ class processor or higher
check


2) 128MB system RAM
check


3) A 300W system power supply
How do I check this?


4) An available hard disk drive power dongle
I'm not sure what this is?


5) An AGP 2.0 (or higher) compliant motherboard. Some motherboards violate the AGP specification and therefore this card may not physically fit in some systems.
Ho do I know if my Motherboard is 2.0 compliant?


6) 50MB of available hard disk space
Check


7) CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive
Check


8) Microsoftâ® Windowsâ® 98 or higher, ME, 2000, XP, or Windowsâ® NT4.0 (Service Pack 5 or 6)
VGA or DVI-I compatible monitor
Check

Korolov
10-17-2004, 08:05 PM
Power supply - open up your case, look where the power cord goes into the system, make sure system is off and unplug power cord (for safety) then trace it inside. It'll be a large box like structure and should have a sticker on the side with specs - somewhere on there it ought to list the wattage. Chances are you already have a 300W power supply.

Hard disk power - the cable that goes from your power supply to your motherboard, hard drives, CDROMs, etc. - check and make sure you have one of those free.

I don't know how to check for AGP 2.0 compliance, but given that you're running a P4, you probably already have that as well. I'm sure someone else here knows how to check for sure.

Howie A
10-17-2004, 08:24 PM
The dongle is the electrical connector, in this case the same fit that plugs into a HD. Most power supplies have extras. If you know the name of the MB manufacturer you can go to their site to see if its AGP 2 compliant but Korolov is correct in that it probably is ok. A good utility that will tell you is everest, its free and offers a lot.

SkyChimp
10-17-2004, 09:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
Power supply - open up your case, look where the power cord goes into the system, make sure system is off and unplug power cord (for safety) then trace it inside. It'll be a large box like structure and should have a sticker on the side with specs - somewhere on there it ought to list the wattage. Chances are you already have a 300W power supply.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll check that.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Hard disk power - the cable that goes from your power supply to your motherboard, hard drives, CDROMs, etc. - check and make sure you have one of those free.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've got one hanging free in there. I've seen it before and wondred what it was.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I don't know how to check for AGP 2.0 compliance, but given that you're running a P4, you probably already have that as well. I'm sure someone else here knows how to check for sure. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know how to check it either.

---

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
The dongle is the electrical connector, in this case the same fit that plugs into a HD. Most power supplies have extras. If you know the name of the MB manufacturer you can go to their site to see if its AGP 2 compliant but Korolov is correct in that it probably is ok. A good utility that will tell you is everest, its free and offers a lot.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks!

---

BTW, thanks for all the help to all of you!

LeChuck59
10-17-2004, 09:16 PM
http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

Download that, cpu-z. It will tell you, among many other things, what kind of AGP you have (mainboard tab -&gt; AGP Revision).

As for your processor and such, it is a bit slow, but I'd wait another six months before upgrading your mobo and proc. The best, AMD's 64bit 939 chipset, is out, but still a bit pricy. And besides, in DirectX 9 applications, like BoB, the GT, or any of the new cards for that matter, will do more for performance than a new processor or faster ram.

SkyChimp
10-17-2004, 09:37 PM
I'm not upgrading my mobo or processor, yet. Right now, there's nothing on the sim-horizon that motivates me enough to want to spend that kind of money. I want to upgrade my vid-card right now, and that's all. Maybe in another year or two I'll upgrade my whole system.

SkyChimp
10-17-2004, 09:38 PM
I'm not upgrading my modo or processor, yet. Right now, there's nothing on the sim-horizon that motivates me enough to want to spend that kind of money. I want to upgrade my vid-card right now, and that's all. Maybe in another year or two I'll upgrade my whole system,

SkyChimp
10-17-2004, 09:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeChuck59:
http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

Download that, cpu-z. It will tell you, among many other things, what kind of AGP you have (mainboard tab -&gt; AGP Revision).

As for your processor and such, it is a bit slow, but I'd wait another six months before upgrading your mobo and proc. The best, AMD's 64bit 939 chipset, is out, but still a bit pricy. And besides, in DirectX 9 applications, like BoB, the GT, or any of the new cards for that matter, will do more for performance than a new processor or faster ram. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK!! Good utility. I have a AGP Version 2.0.

Thanks!

SkyChimp
10-17-2004, 10:03 PM
OK, one last question. My Ti-4600 is a 4x card (I think). Will an 8x card present a problem?

Howie A
10-17-2004, 10:19 PM
No it won't. Its really not too important but are you positive your MB won't accept x8?

RedDeth
10-17-2004, 10:37 PM
hes fine. the GT will provide the largest boost in performance of any one thing he can do. he has a P4 2.26 and thats not a tiny processor.

TX-EcoDragon
10-17-2004, 11:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyChimp:
I don't plan on upgrading my 2.26 P4. In fact, I won't be upgrading for BoB either. I'll need something far mor exciting than BoB for me to get a whole new system. Korea would do it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Anyway, I think one of the most common things people here do is OVERestimate the power they need to run a game well. When IL2 first came out, I ran it on the highest settings with a P3 600mhz, 512 meg, 64mb Gforce 3 card. I run FB on my current system on perfect and get very good frame rates even over cities. I've got every confidence that my system will handle PF just fine. But I would like to see the nice water. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would say with your system that you should probably just go with the standard 6800 and save $90-$100. It has the advanced features of the 6800 series, and much of the GPU muscle (mine overclocks to 380/850). I overclocked mine back when I was running my P4 2.2 and that overclock had very little impact on fps, only about 1.7 avg fps increase in black death track. The difference is much larger on the faster CPU I run now. In short, I would probably not bother with the $100.00 extra for that small increase. That much is for you to decide. What I did was spend 150 for a new CPU (P4 2.8) and 279.00 for the eVGA 6800 and the net increase was very nice. . . much better than it would have been to get the 6800GT which would probably run almost the same on my older machine.
In a few years when your ready to upgrade you'll probably want a new vid card by then anyway.

Mine runs 1280x960 res on perfect, with driver level settigns set to 2X AA, 2X AF, and quality slider on "performance" with avg in cockpit fps of 30-45 lower numbers when lower alts.

LeChuck59
10-18-2004, 12:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TX-EcoDragon:

I would say with your system that you should probably just go with the standard 6800 and save $90-$100. It has the advanced features of the 6800 series, and much of the GPU muscle (mine overclocks to 380/850). I overclocked mine back when I was running my P4 2.2 and that overclock had very little impact on fps, only about 1.7 avg fps increase in black death track. The difference is much larger on the faster CPU I run now. In short, I would probably not bother with the $100.00 extra for that small increase. That much is for you to decide. What I did was spend 150 for a new CPU (P4 2.8) and 279.00 for the eVGA 6800 and the net increase was very nice. . . much better than it would have been to get the 6800GT which would probably run almost the same on my older machine.
In a few years when your ready to upgrade you'll probably want a new vid card by then anyway.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The vanilla 6800 is another good card, but overclocking it to GT speeds isn't the same as overclocking a GT to Ultra speeds. This is because the GT is very much an underclocked Ultra, while the plain 6800 is not and underclocked GT. Like the Ultra, the 6800 GT has 16 pipelines while the vanilla has 12. Again, like the Ultra, the GT has 256mbs of GDDR3 memory while the vanilla has only 128mbs of DDR1. All that means the GT has 40% greater fillrate and memory bandwidth. So to say, as Eco did, that the performance gained by overclocking a plain 6800 to GT speeds is neglible reflects more upon the vanilla 6800 than the GT because the vanilla and the GT are, apart from the NV40 core they share, different pieces of hardware. Meanwhile, the GT and the Ultra are essentially the same.

Unless it's a budget buster, you cannot go wrong with the GT. Even if it outclasses the rest of your system, it'll be there waiting in six months to a year when you upgrade the rest of it.

SkyChimp
10-18-2004, 06:56 PM
Ok, the 6800GT it is.

Thank a bunch. You're all a fine group of folks!

Rogodin
10-18-2004, 11:11 PM
And you should upgrade that powersupply-get yourself a really good 500Watt for that 6800-they run really hot.

You also should have asked Hunter - since he's tested both the X800P and 6800U. I personally haven't bought an NVIDIA card since the g4TI4600-and thought the 6800 looks good-I'm still a bit put off.

I'd have gone the x800P route-since I like ATI's 128tap AF and 6xFSAA RG.

But not matter what you get you'll more than like it! Enjoy!

Rogo

TX-EcoDragon
10-18-2004, 11:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeChuck59:


The vanilla 6800 is another good card, but overclocking it to GT speeds isn't the same as overclocking a GT to Ultra speeds. This is because the GT is very much an underclocked Ultra, while the plain 6800 is not and underclocked GT. Like the Ultra, the 6800 GT has 16 pipelines while the vanilla has 12. Again, like the Ultra, the GT has 256mbs of GDDR3 memory while the vanilla has only 128mbs of DDR1. All that means the GT has 40% greater fillrate and memory bandwidth. So to say, as Eco did, that the performance gained by overclocking a plain 6800 to GT speeds is neglible reflects more upon the vanilla 6800 than the GT because the vanilla and the GT are, apart from the NV40 core they share, different pieces of hardware. Meanwhile, the GT and the Ultra are essentially the same.

Unless it's a budget buster, you cannot go wrong with the GT. Even if it outclasses the rest of your system, it'll be there waiting in six months to a year when you upgrade the rest of it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
[/QUOTE]

Yes, my point was about the CPU being a bottleneck more so than the card, such that if I had $410.00 to spend, with his system, and if I didn't plan to use the card in a later system, I might add a little CPU muscle in addition to the card. (6800+CPU vs 6800GT alone) I would expect that the performance increase in something like a flight sim which are bottlenecked by even the fastest CPUS. The other thing in my case is I would have had to upgrade my power supply to run the GT. (for a dell that is costly, they cant use ATX PSUs)

That said, eVGA has their handy trade up program, so I had time to try it! If I was going to upgrade the rest of my machine sometime soon (ie get a new one) I would make that upgrade. The bang for the buck looks impossible to beat in the 6800GT, and if I remember, it tied the ATI 9700Pro on some sort of fps/cost value graph one of the review sites out there published.