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Erhanninja
07-27-2018, 09:31 AM
When is this **** going to be fixed? Iím sick and tired of dying to smashing light attack noobs. Literally every orochi at this point light attack spam just smashing the button. Then use kiai when opponent is attacking throw them on the ground two top heavy not dead? Carry on spamming. Just throw few feints here and there for fun. What were Devs thinking doing this after everything with Aramusha? Very disappointing

Maxime_Qc-
07-27-2018, 09:50 AM
Agreed that orochi light spam and the entire aramusha kit is completely against the spirit of the final game we looking for!!!!!

jbs1985
07-27-2018, 11:06 AM
Personally I donít think kiai is op, as it most of the times Iíve used it only gets the opponent faster revenge. When Iím using orochi I use iron lungs instead, because kiai is just a revenge feeder. I agree on the light spam though, theyíve tried to work the changes for pc, without considering the consoles and how it affect them. Thatís why I think changes should be platform specific and not global. What might work on one does not equal the others.

Awlkara
07-27-2018, 11:13 AM
We don't need this game to further embrace the turtle meta that it has for so long.

I used to complain about Orochi lights myself, now I can parry the first hit of his light chain.

In time you will get better.

Knight_Raime
07-27-2018, 05:42 PM
They added lag compensation. Which not only smoothed out attacks coming out waaay faster than intended but also added a 67ms? delay to basically every offensive action. You also need to factor in the switch time on the guard. So orochi's triple light combo is 500ms>400ms>400ms. But in reality when it's spammed it's more like 500ms>480ms>480ms.

True spam is easy to react to. If someone is properly delaying their follow up lights (when they are their true speed at 367ms) then that's no longer spam. You're also probably flailing your guard around after you fail to guard each hit. Which just basically guarantees the next follow up hit.

I'd recommend you go put some hard time in the training arena.

Soldier_of_Dawn
07-27-2018, 06:05 PM
True spam is easy to react to. If someone is properly delaying their follow up lights (when they are their true speed at 367ms) then that's no longer spam. You're also probably flailing your guard around after you fail to guard each hit. Which just basically guarantees the next follow up hit.

I'd recommend you go put some hard time in the training arena.

With all due respect, I think you're in the minority on this one. Too many players are winning with random light attacks and less skill. The issue does need addressing, especially for those on console.

How the light spam issue needs to be addressed is what you touched on earlier:


They added lag compensation. Which not only smoothed out attacks coming out waaay faster than intended but also added a 67ms? delay to basically every offensive action. You also need to factor in the switch time on the guard. So orochi's triple light combo is 500ms>400ms>400ms. But in reality when it's spammed it's more like 500ms>480ms>480ms.

Siegfried-Z
07-28-2018, 12:11 AM
They added lag compensation. Which not only smoothed out attacks coming out waaay faster than intended but also added a 67ms? delay to basically every offensive action. You also need to factor in the switch time on the guard. So orochi's triple light combo is 500ms>400ms>400ms. But in reality when it's spammed it's more like 500ms>480ms>480ms.

True spam is easy to react to. If someone is properly delaying their follow up lights (when they are their true speed at 367ms) then that's no longer spam. You're also probably flailing your guard around after you fail to guard each hit. Which just basically guarantees the next follow up hit.

I'd recommend you go put some hard time in the training arena.

We already discuss about it but what you're saying about Roch lights is clearly not matching with what most players experience of the game and feeling with these lights is.

Maybe at a moment if the entire world say a triple lights combo that fast is just stupid, op and skillless then you should think again about it ?:)
Just my opinion.

Again, friends of me and myself all more than rep 100 and with good KD ratio are having troubles with Roch lights on console .. many utubers made vids about it.. almost the entire player base get crazy with this combo.
Tbh i believe even a lot of the top 2.5% players have troubles with ..
That + Kiai feat is enough To make Roch the most frustrating char of the game right now (while not OP overall, but frustrating) .

JediGamerFurius
07-28-2018, 12:27 AM
I was about to make a video showing how you can block it, but is allready there in the youtube. Honestly, I think some people should quit complaning in the foruns and do some research for a while. Information is never too much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oqDWsc8ZPg

Erhanninja
07-28-2018, 01:31 AM
I was about to make a video showing how you can block it, but is allready there in the youtube. Honestly, I think some people should quit complaning in the foruns and do some research for a while. Information is never too much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oqDWsc8ZPg

Iím sorry but what you are saying is BS.

This guy is playing against a bot in the arena.

First of all his connection with the server is minimum.

Bot in the arena is more than predictable. Attack every x second. Bot never delays no feint nothing.

And bot beats **** out of him.

His great suggestion is adjusting dead zone. We all done that ages ago.

Iím really curious why I never see these people saying yeah I can block yeah I can parry.

If majority of people are complaining about something probably there is some truth to it

Knight_Raime
07-28-2018, 02:02 AM
We already discuss about it but what you're saying about Roch lights is clearly not matching with what most players experience of the game and feeling with these lights is.

Maybe at a moment if the entire world say a triple lights combo that fast is just stupid, op and skillless then you should think again about it ?:)
Just my opinion.

Again, friends of me and myself all more than rep 100 and with good KD ratio are having troubles with Roch lights on console .. many utubers made vids about it.. almost the entire player base get crazy with this combo.
Tbh i believe even a lot of the top 2.5% players have troubles with ..
That + Kiai feat is enough To make Roch the most frustrating char of the game right now (while not OP overall, but frustrating) .

The only lights that come from rochi that are difficult to block are true 400ms lights (which are 367ms) and those come from delaying your lights in combo. You can't spam these. because spam=buffering attacks. and buffered attacks in this game come out slower than they are supposed to. So either you're correctly using the term spam and you're just struggling due to poor reflexes. Or you're misusing the term spam because Orochi technically does light a lot.
Rep doesn't equate to skill. You can still put a 1000 hours into a game and still suck at a particular aspect about it.

400ms lights are designed to be difficult to handle. Top tier players are not complaining about that. They actually complain that those 400ms lights are technically useless right now because static guard heros have a bug that lets them insta block anything on reaction. Even the 400ms delayed lights.

If you're eating actual spammed attacks it's because you have poor reflexes or because you keep trying to switch your guard after you failed to block the first time. Thus you're getting stuck in animation que. OR you're fighting good players who are consistently delaying their 400ms lights and you're having a hard time defending against it. Which is working as intended.

either way you're complaint is wrong. :>

Keef739
07-28-2018, 02:13 AM
Good players dont lose to light spam, and if they do, theyre upset with THEMSELVES for making the MISTAKES that allowed it to happen.

Only Noobs and Baddies rage over light spam, cause they cant wrap their brain around how to combat it.

Orochi is still subpar and has no way to open up a good player that actually knows how to use his right analog.

Kiai is kinda annoying, but feats are imbalanced altogether.

JediGamerFurius
07-28-2018, 02:31 AM
What you are saying right now is BS, and I will tell you why.



This guy is playing against a bot in the arena.
I fight against orochi in PVE dominion AND PVP too, and guess what? I PARRY THE LIGHT! I must be the one and only player in the whole wide world who can do that. I'm blessed by the Gods!



First of all his connection with the server is minimum.
A 25 or enven 50 ping isn't a problem, if you got more than 100 you must change or you must fix your internet.



Bot in the arena is more than predictable. Attack every x second. Bot never delays no feint nothing.
A feint is a feint, if you go for it you are baited.


And bot beats **** out of him.
You talk like he got beated every time and didn't happend, he misses some but in the great part of it he can block or parry. Also he is not a robot, he can miss sometimes.




I’m really curious why I never see these people saying yeah I can block yeah I can parry.

If majority of people are complaining about something probably there is some truth to it

I can block it, thrust me, I GOT TO TRAIN that before doing it. You call majority but in truth, they are some few ppl who are too lazy and don't want go to the arena.

Mirage6201
07-28-2018, 02:40 AM
If timed 400ms lights on console as fast as 333ms.

Baturai
07-28-2018, 06:39 AM
Complain about Orochis lights as if itwas game breaking. Orochi is weak af without proper openers and ****ty counter attacks such as Riptide strike.. ( worst move in the game). İf you cant block Orochis lights, you really are new to this game. :/

Orochis light are very Risky.. most of the vanguard types do a crazy parry damage on lights.

Xarous86
07-28-2018, 01:46 PM
or you can buy a 144hz monitor just to have a bit more time to parry.... xD the solution is there but costs money

Siegfried-Z
07-29-2018, 02:19 AM
The only lights that come from rochi that are difficult to block are true 400ms lights (which are 367ms) and those come from delaying your lights in combo. You can't spam these. because spam=buffering attacks. and buffered attacks in this game come out slower than they are supposed to. So either you're correctly using the term spam and you're just struggling due to poor reflexes. Or you're misusing the term spam because Orochi technically does light a lot.
Rep doesn't equate to skill. You can still put a 1000 hours into a game and still suck at a particular aspect about it.

400ms lights are designed to be difficult to handle. Top tier players are not complaining about that. They actually complain that those 400ms lights are technically useless right now because static guard heros have a bug that lets them insta block anything on reaction. Even the 400ms delayed lights.

If you're eating actual spammed attacks it's because you have poor reflexes or because you keep trying to switch your guard after you failed to block the first time. Thus you're getting stuck in animation que. OR you're fighting good players who are consistently delaying their 400ms lights and you're having a hard time defending against it. Which is working as intended.

either way you're complaint is wrong. :>

Well you can keep going thinking this but then you're saying that almost the entire PS4 player base have poor reflex.

You can put figures there as much as you want, Roch lights, delayed or spammed are a stupid thing for the health of this game.

But you as a little others are proud to say it is so easy to react. . Are you on console first ?
Because if you do, i dare you to pick up an assassin and to block/parry without problems roch lighs spam. Try ?

I am good enough To parry a lot of mooves in this game, my best friend is very good with deflect etc
We are good enough To be frequently matched in game with top ten players on ps4 and overall. . But we have troubles sometimes with roch lights. So what about average player ? The game dont have To be fitting only for the top 0.1% .

But anyway this combo is stupid and pointless because it requires absolutly zero skills .

EvoX.
07-29-2018, 03:06 AM
If timed 400ms lights on console as fast as 333ms.

The ''on console'' part is obsolete. All attacks are the same speed on every platform.

Hormly
07-29-2018, 03:28 AM
I'm happy with orochi having fast lights because he can't spam unblockables, which are the real issue in this game

Haplo_Bane
07-29-2018, 04:44 AM
Watched it. There's no way that was on xbox. The lights were sooo slow. You can throw as many numbers at people as you want,I've played enough to know the lights on the xbox are a lot faster. I've read there was a difference,but I thought it was only a little. I thought they were heavies at first glance. You can actually see the attack coming and have time to react,instead of just guessing. I can see why the pc has a turtle problem. Suddenly I want to play orochi again.

Knight_Raime
07-29-2018, 05:55 AM
Well you can keep going thinking this but then you're saying that almost the entire PS4 player base have poor reflex.

You can put figures there as much as you want, Roch lights, delayed or spammed are a stupid thing for the health of this game.

But you as a little others are proud to say it is so easy to react. . Are you on console first ?
Because if you do, i dare you to pick up an assassin and to block/parry without problems roch lighs spam. Try ?

I am good enough To parry a lot of mooves in this game, my best friend is very good with deflect etc
We are good enough To be frequently matched in game with top ten players on ps4 and overall. . But we have troubles sometimes with roch lights. So what about average player ? The game dont have To be fitting only for the top 0.1% .

But anyway this combo is stupid and pointless because it requires absolutly zero skills .

Yeah i'm on console. Calling something stupid without backing it up sure doesn't make your argument look better than mine when i'm actually using verbiage correctly with the factual numbers of how the game works. I primarily play assassins. I can block just fine.

Being able to delay your lights consistently is an actual skill that not any rando with a controller can pull easily. So saying it's skillless is false. "not good for the game." Based on what? if we're talking real spam here it's a non issue the higher you go in skill brackets. Things that are difficult for low tier players are not inherently bad for the game.
And delayed lights (well their speed anyway) are actually healthy for the game. Because the less reactable this game is and the more prediction based play it leans into the more viable offensive play can be. And the less staring contests we get trapped in.

Unless you have anything other then fluff and crying in your next response i'm not even going to bother with a reply.

Knight_Raime
07-29-2018, 05:59 AM
Watched it. There's no way that was on xbox. The lights were sooo slow. You can throw as many numbers at people as you want,I've played enough to know the lights on the xbox are a lot faster. I've read there was a difference,but I thought it was only a little. I thought they were heavies at first glance. You can actually see the attack coming and have time to react,instead of just guessing. I can see why the pc has a turtle problem. Suddenly I want to play orochi again.

Sorry but you don't know jack. Attacks are the exact same speeds regardless of platform. So are the windows in which you have to react to something. The FPS difference does not give you double the time to react to something. You simply see a cleaner animation. Meaning hypothetically speaking you could maybe react better. But that's literally subjective. I have played on console, on pc, and on console with a proper monitor. I saw a much bigger boost to my performance via having a decent monitor.

Haplo_Bane
07-29-2018, 06:02 PM
Sorry knight-raime but not only do I know Jack,I know Jill as well champ. When I SEE the orochi players latency go from 50-100+ and fight him compared to one that has 30 steady latency, they ARE at different speeds visually as well as a noticable difference fighting them. There's just no getting around it. Maybe I could react better and I could buy a monitor to play the 1 game that actually needs one. Hell, the devs could even continue with the lag compensation they started. The fact they haven't is proof there's still lag isn't it? Otherwise it would be complete and not at stage one. Or maybe the people complaining are a bit daft and aren't really seeing lag and need you to tell them they simply can't be right, cause you can parrot what ubiSOFT tells us what's happening.

SgSpray
07-29-2018, 06:10 PM
It's insane how badly you missed the point. The game is capped at 30fps on consoles, which gives console players at MINIMUM half of the frame data to work with when attempting to react to these kinds of attacks. There IS a fundamental problem with fast light attacks on the CONSOLE versions of the game. If you'll notice in everyother fighting game, there is a fighting engine built so that there are no simple exploits to utilize effectively. The design of for-honor's combat system is amateurish when it comes to balance, dont be condescending just because you don't understand the issue.

Haplo_Bane
07-29-2018, 06:59 PM
Had a whole night light spamming dudes with orochi. I didn't realize it was like this till I read this thread. Sometimes I got blocked but I just kept jamming. Never got parried once. So easy. Didn't delay any attacks. Didn't have to. AND I always had stamina to spare. Don't get me wrong. I'm not complaing. I rarely do. I've accepted the game for what it is now and just run with. Maybe they'll fix it,maybe they won't. I personally just use this forum to see what people are having trouble with and then do it myself. Many ways to skin a cat.(sometimes I'll respond to someone mainly so they know that they're not alone with a certain problem,always makes ya feel better.Don't see the point in trying to tear people down for wanting to know why they're having problems.)

Knight_Raime
07-29-2018, 11:31 PM
Sorry knight-raime but not only do I know Jack,I know Jill as well champ. When I SEE the orochi players latency go from 50-100+ and fight him compared to one that has 30 steady latency, they ARE at different speeds visually as well as a noticable difference fighting them. There's just no getting around it. Maybe I could react better and I could buy a monitor to play the 1 game that actually needs one. Hell, the devs could even continue with the lag compensation they started. The fact they haven't is proof there's still lag isn't it? Otherwise it would be complete and not at stage one. Or maybe the people complaining are a bit daft and aren't really seeing lag and need you to tell them they simply can't be right, cause you can parrot what ubiSOFT tells us what's happening.

Latency is not a thing you balance around because it can vary so wildly. That's what the lag compensation system is for. In for honor the lag comp system adds 67ms to every offensive action. This effectively stopped the game from having major sped up attacks when connection only slightly varied. They can absolutely tweak the lag comp system to make it better. But if you're seriously coming across attacks that are regularly twice as fast as they normally are that's not the games fault. Your connection or where you live is the issue then.


It's insane how badly you missed the point. The game is capped at 30fps on consoles, which gives console players at MINIMUM half of the frame data to work with when attempting to react to these kinds of attacks. There IS a fundamental problem with fast light attacks on the CONSOLE versions of the game. If you'll notice in everyother fighting game, there is a fighting engine built so that there are no simple exploits to utilize effectively. The design of for-honor's combat system is amateurish when it comes to balance, dont be condescending just because you don't understand the issue.

You missed what I claimed. At 60fps orochi's opening light (as an example) is 500ms. And on console at 30fps that attack is still 500ms. More frames in for honor does not give you a bigger window to react nor does it mean attack speeds are different. That's just not how it works in FH.


Had a whole night light spamming dudes with orochi. I didn't realize it was like this till I read this thread. Sometimes I got blocked but I just kept jamming. Never got parried once. So easy. Didn't delay any attacks. Didn't have to. AND I always had stamina to spare. Don't get me wrong. I'm not complaing. I rarely do. I've accepted the game for what it is now and just run with. Maybe they'll fix it,maybe they won't. I personally just use this forum to see what people are having trouble with and then do it myself. Many ways to skin a cat.(sometimes I'll respond to someone mainly so they know that they're not alone with a certain problem,always makes ya feel better.Don't see the point in trying to tear people down for wanting to know why they're having problems.)

You're either misusing the term spam or you were fighting terrible players. I'm on console, xbox to be specific. I don't even play in high skill brackets. I play in the upper portion of mid tier. Light spam does not work there. They get blocked and parried. The only time I ever see anyone eat multiple lights in duels in a row is if they keep trying to switch their guard during hitstun. in which their actively screwing themselves.

You will get no argument from me that this game has had it's share of bad design choices and frankly weird interactions. But light spam, is a player made issue that just simply does not exist once you start fighting competent players. I'm not saying it's not an issue for any players at all. I'm aware a lot of players are casual and the bigger portion of this community is also not great at the game. But I am saying that just because something is an issue for some specific types of players does not mean it's a game wide issue that HAS to be addressed.

Games can be built with both casual and competitive play in mind if the base of the game is solid. Halo is an example of this. For honor was not built this way. It was built without the room for competitive play. And that's the entire reason for these big changes they've been making and continue to make. It sucks for those of us who are in FH's growing phase. But once it all settles out people will adjust and this won't be a problem anymore.

Haplo_Bane
07-30-2018, 02:11 AM
Well knight-raine,I gotta admit,you know your stuff. I can't deny that all makes sense. I fought some 100 reps last night but none of the guys that I know are really good. I don't think the lag is my internet,I always assume it's theirs. Although I have 30 lat ,I do see the occasional 15,so I suppose that's proof I don't have the best even though I thought I did.I thought spam was when you just hit the same button over and over.AND you weren't even grumby about it.I don't mind being wrong. Means I learnt something. Good to see your passionate about the game.

ChampionRuby50g
07-30-2018, 06:44 AM
Well knight-raine,I gotta admit,you know your stuff. I can't deny that all makes sense. I fought some 100 reps last night but none of the guys that I know are really good. I don't think the lag is my internet,I always assume it's theirs. Although I have 30 lat ,I do see the occasional 15,so I suppose that's proof I don't have the best even though I thought I did.I thought spam was when you just hit the same button over and over.AND you weren't even grumby about it.I don't mind being wrong. Means I learnt something. Good to see your passionate about the game.

Do you have the NBN yet? And if so, did you notice an improvement when you got it, or did it not make much of a difference at all?

Also I saw you posted at like 4am or something, do you find many games at that hour?

Haplo_Bane
07-30-2018, 07:26 AM
Yea,I had NBN(boosted for what that's worth) before the game though,so I can't compare. It made a small difference in general,but nothing to write home about. I thought I had the best the country had to offer,but while 30 lat seems to be the norm,I do see the occasional 15 which baffles and pisses me off. I don't understand why theirs is so good. Am I behind already? The dedicated servers made the main difference. It's not as common now,but I still encounter invisible hits and attacks going through blocks. I've noticed it's always the same people too.And they always have high latency. Which is why I've always figure it's them and not me. Ever notice most people that play Arushuma have high latency,and now they're playing Orochi's. Also I'm retired so my sleeping pattern is all over the joint. Sometimes you can play until 0300, but it depends on the people playing. For example: Atorias,Smokey and Addi were rocking their premades in one night and weren't being very nice. I'm used to getting "special attention" but they were heavily ganking people under 10 rep. By 2300 it was all over. Everyone left. But in general,I can play reliably between 1000-0200.

ChampionRuby50g
07-30-2018, 08:02 AM
Yea,I had NBN(boosted for what that's worth) before the game though,so I can't compare. It made a small difference in general,but nothing to write home about. I thought I had the best the country had to offer,but while 30 lat seems to be the norm,I do see the occasional 15 which baffles and pisses me off. I don't understand why theirs is so good. Am I behind already? The dedicated servers made the main difference. It's not as common now,but I still encounter invisible hits and attacks going through blocks. I've noticed it's always the same people too.And they always have high latency. Which is why I've always figure it's them and not me. Ever notice most people that play Arushuma have high latency,and now they're playing Orochi's. Also I'm retired so my sleeping pattern is all over the joint. Sometimes you can play until 0300, but it depends on the people playing. For example: Atorias,Smokey and Addi were rocking their premades in one night and weren't being very nice. I'm used to getting "special attention" but they were heavily ganking people under 10 rep. By 2300 it was all over. Everyone left. But in general,I can play reliably between 1000-0200.

Hmm thatís interesting to me, because I donít have NBN yet and my latency usually sits around 30-50ish I think, I know I donít have the best internet and I probably do lag for some people but thereís just nothing I can do about that until December when they finally install it. I always assumed people with 15 latency are ones who have high speed NBN.
Servers and lag Comp made a huge difference for me, but as you said I still get hits through block, and I sometimes hit people through a block even though it appears on my screen they blocked it. Orochi lights when I play as an Assassin is my nightmare, worse than Aramusha IMHO.
I know what you mean about special attention to lol, it must be our high overall reps or people are just afraid of us :P I often see people when Iím in a group fight head straight for me and ignore my ally.
Thatís funny about Addi, because he got salty and messaged me about using feats while breaking, but then has no problem dropping a catapult on me while Iím been attacked by two off his teammates while breaking. I work 7-3:30 everyday so I never usually play past 10pm on weekdays, so matchmaking is usually good for me, and on weekends Itís always later.

Haplo_Bane
07-30-2018, 08:29 AM
Yea, I know you. You're one the of the players that makes me think ' crap,here we go.' I sit up straighter,quickly rub my hands dry,make sure my controller is sitting right and press my glasses in properly. I'm bloody glad you work. I might find out where and convince your boss to give you a promotion with lots and lots of overtime. I'm getting there though. I'm getting there. Oh yea. You've never lagged. At least on my end anyway. Always a clean fight. As far as NBN is corncerned you'll find it will keep it at a steady 30. I don't know. It might be as Knight Raime said and it depends on what suburb you live in. Maybe I need the latest modem. Not really sure. It changes so often and my interests are elsewhere. Bring back teamshuffle

ChampionRuby50g
07-30-2018, 08:53 AM
Yea, I know you. You're one the of the players that makes me think ' crap,here we go.' I sit up straighter,quickly rub my hands dry,make sure my controller is sitting right and press my glasses in properly. I'm bloody glad you work. I might find out where and convince your boss to give you a promotion with lots and lots of overtime. I'm getting there though. I'm getting there. Oh yea. You've never lagged. At least on my end anyway. Always a clean fight. As far as NBN is corncerned you'll find it will keep it at a steady 30. I don't know. It might be as Knight Raime said and it depends on what suburb you live in. Maybe I need the latest modem. Not really sure. It changes so often and my interests are elsewhere.

Yeah our fights always have me sweating like a pig ahah, but hey Iíd appreciate a promotion, but donít you dare get me overtime. But thatís good to hear I donít lag for you at least, I hate it when it happens to me and feel bad if Iím lagging because itís just so annoying. I was really hoping Iíd get NBN when P2P was a thing, but classic Aussie government been slow. It would mostly depend on how close you are to the nearest exchange, like Iím 1000m away so It Could probably be worse for me.

Siegfried-Z
07-30-2018, 11:51 AM
Yeah i'm on console. Calling something stupid without backing it up sure doesn't make your argument look better than mine when i'm actually using verbiage correctly with the factual numbers of how the game works. I primarily play assassins. I can block just fine.

Being able to delay your lights consistently is an actual skill that not any rando with a controller can pull easily. So saying it's skillless is false. "not good for the game." Based on what? if we're talking real spam here it's a non issue the higher you go in skill brackets. Things that are difficult for low tier players are not inherently bad for the game.
And delayed lights (well their speed anyway) are actually healthy for the game. Because the less reactable this game is and the more prediction based play it leans into the more viable offensive play can be. And the less staring contests we get trapped in.

Unless you have anything other then fluff and crying in your next response i'm not even going to bother with a reply.

You just pick up what you want in my words and call it cry etc

My purpose is, you know your figures ok man that's pretty cool i give you a A.

But in another hands, this problem is a fact as Well.
Of course i don't want starting fights etc .. but my opinion is gessing is not skill.. skill is reaction and mind game.

If for you people can fight agressivly only with very fast lights and gessing game then it is sad.

Looking at this point, we never gonna agree with each others.
Dont care

Knight_Raime
07-30-2018, 05:31 PM
You just pick up what you want in my words and call it cry etc

My purpose is, you know your figures ok man that's pretty cool i give you a A.

But in another hands, this problem is a fact as Well.
Of course i don't want starting fights etc .. but my opinion is gessing is not skill.. skill is reaction and mind game.

If for you people can fight agressivly only with very fast lights and gessing game then it is sad.

Looking at this point, we never gonna agree with each others.
Dont care

"guessing is not skill." Guessing is prediction play. Which is apart of every fighter game that has ever existed. So fighters might not be for you if you have a problem with not being able to react to everything.

"skill is reaction and mind game." "skill" is not one type of thing. There are different types of skills. Reactions fall under mechanical skill. mind game is the same thing as prediction play. that's refered to as meta game skill. Other things that are meta game skill would be things like gathering as much possible info from audio and visual ques, remembering who has what and when it was used etc.

"mind gaming" someone is the act of making them believe you were going to do one thing and then you end up doing another. The game enables this via mix ups. And if the opponent gets hit by you he guessed wrong. So there is no difference between guessing and "mind game" You're either failing to convey what you mean with proper verbiage or you're just trying to tell me i'm wrong regardless.

"if you people can only fight with fast lights and guessing game then it's sad." Again. Fighters probably are just not for you. That's fine. But if that's the case then try not toting around on the forums like you know what you're talking about or like your opinion is great for the game. Not saying you've done that now but avoid it in the future.

Siegfried-Z
07-31-2018, 02:20 AM
"guessing is not skill." Guessing is prediction play. Which is apart of every fighter game that has ever existed. So fighters might not be for you if you have a problem with not being able to react to everything.

"skill is reaction and mind game." "skill" is not one type of thing. There are different types of skills. Reactions fall under mechanical skill. mind game is the same thing as prediction play. that's refered to as meta game skill. Other things that are meta game skill would be things like gathering as much possible info from audio and visual ques, remembering who has what and when it was used etc.

"mind gaming" someone is the act of making them believe you were going to do one thing and then you end up doing another. The game enables this via mix ups. And if the opponent gets hit by you he guessed wrong. So there is no difference between guessing and "mind game" You're either failing to convey what you mean with proper verbiage or you're just trying to tell me i'm wrong regardless.

"if you people can only fight with fast lights and guessing game then it's sad." Again. Fighters probably are just not for you. That's fine. But if that's the case then try not toting around on the forums like you know what you're talking about or like your opinion is great for the game. Not saying you've done that now but avoid it in the future.

First of all, you're giving definition. Who are you to define things? No one.

That beeing said, i keep saying, gessing is not mind game.
When a zerk land a top unblocable a then probably gonna feint for a light, another heavy a zone or whatever this is a mind game because knowing that and focus about it can allow you to have the good reaction.
When a roch land his triple lights combo. . Is there some mix up? Not at all.. they are just extremly fast and can comme from any directions. . So there, this is a gessing game.

My opinion is that everything should be reactable.

Look at the Kensei, he is very strong but by focusing and beeing smart you can punish every single things he can do.
Why ? Because while very strong mix up and tools, nothing he has is too fast to react to.

This kind of movesets are good for the game.

Because it can't be spam unless you spam dash and zone and then get yourself parried and OOS.

To end it up. . You like to give adives, judge people without knowing anything of them and talking like your words were Divin.

Fighters are not for me .. ? meh not even gonna respond to that free child attack.

I am just giving my opinion here, so hearing from someone like you things like "dont talk like you know what you're talking about.. what is good for the game etc" makes me really laugh.

You look not IRL man, gonna call you BOT 1 from now :)

Knight_Raime
07-31-2018, 03:19 AM
First of all, you're giving definition. Who are you to define things? No one.

That beeing said, i keep saying, gessing is not mind game.
When a zerk land a top unblocable a then probably gonna feint for a light, another heavy a zone or whatever this is a mind game because knowing that and focus about it can allow you to have the good reaction.
When a roch land his triple lights combo. . Is there some mix up? Not at all.. they are just extremly fast and can comme from any directions. . So there, this is a gessing game.

My opinion is that everything should be reactable.

Look at the Kensei, he is very strong but by focusing and beeing smart you can punish every single things he can do.
Why ? Because while very strong mix up and tools, nothing he has is too fast to react to.

This kind of movesets are good for the game.

Because it can't be spam unless you spam dash and zone and then get yourself parried and OOS.

To end it up. . You like to give adives, judge people without knowing anything of them and talking like your words were Divin.

Fighters are not for me .. ? meh not even gonna respond to that free child attack.

I am just giving my opinion here, so hearing from someone like you things like "dont talk like you know what you're talking about.. what is good for the game etc" makes me really laugh.

You look not IRL man, gonna call you BOT 1 from now :)

"my opinion is everything should be reactable." Yep. Thanks for saying that. Now I don't need to waste any further time with you. Nor should anyone else. Fighters are deff not for you then. Majority of fighters out there are far more prediction based. For honor was an anomaly. And it's getting fixed to not be this way. Call me whatever you want bro. You won't be getting another response from me. You'll just be ignored.

Siegfried-Z
07-31-2018, 12:28 PM
"my opinion is everything should be reactable." Yep. Thanks for saying that. Now I don't need to waste any further time with you. Nor should anyone else. Fighters are deff not for you then. Majority of fighters out there are far more prediction based. For honor was an anomaly. And it's getting fixed to not be this way. Call me whatever you want bro. You won't be getting another response from me. You'll just be ignored.

That suit me very Well, thanks you BOT 1