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Awlkara
07-26-2018, 11:50 PM
Now, I recently came back to this game so I really don't know anything about Peacekeeper really being overpowered but I've heard the same thing for Shaman.

The thing that urks me is literally that Shaman is Peacekeeper on steroids.

Both have soft feints that bleed but Shaman can do hers in any direction while Peacekeeper is reduced to only tops, Both bleeds can stack.

Both have heavy soft feints but Shaman can do it from an unblockable.

Not sure if it's true but Shaman's lights feel way faster and she has more combo strings than Peacekeeper.

She can heal from getting a bleed and use bite which is an amazing dark type move.

She has two unblockables and Peacekeeper doesn't even have one and Shaman also hits way harder.

I bought this game when it first came out and played for like two weeks and came back almost three weeks ago.

To see Peacekeeper's kit get torn down the way it has and then put into some other character who is blatantly the same thing but outright better is just appalling.

Apparently this Peacekeeper rework came out after the release of Shaman as well. I'm not sure why Peacekeeper is allowed to just be completely outclassed in all areas by an aesthetically unpleasing character like Shaman.

The urge to not switch is real and only because Shaman is an unlikable character in my eyes because she's nasty.

I'm just hoping Peacekeeper can find her role somewhere because as of right now if you are comparing her to Shaman, Shaman honestly is just a better Peacekeeper.

It's not fair to a veteran character to be outclassed so hard by some newcomer in every way possible.

I cannot even fathom an edge that Peacekeeper has over Shaman at this point after playing them both.

Alustar.
07-27-2018, 12:08 AM
PK has a better zone option select, in that I don't even think shaman can zone option at all. Outside of that, and especially after this recent nerf, there really isn't a reason to choose peacekeeper over shaman unless you just really like her.

I personally prefer shaman to PK, because of her aesthetic and aggressive play style. The OP talk is really just personal bias. If anything shaman is more balanced than peacekeeper is or was. And I wouldn't hold my breath on them changing PK anytime soon.

Awlkara
07-27-2018, 12:17 AM
PK has a better zone option select, in that I don't even think shaman can zone option at all. Outside of that, and especially after this recent nerf, there really isn't a reason to choose peacekeeper over shaman unless you just really like her.

I personally prefer shaman to PK, because of her aesthetic and aggressive play style. The OP talk is really just personal bias. If anything shaman is more balanced than peacekeeper is or was. And I wouldn't hold my breath on them changing PK anytime soon.

Shaman can zone option select.

I do not speak for how Peacekeeper was, but how Shaman and Peacekeeper are compared to each other in this state.

Knight_Raime
07-27-2018, 12:28 AM
Shaman technically has aspects from a lot of different heros wrapped into one kit. I wouldn't call her a bitter peace keeper though.
Shaman in terms of teams is all about being the damage. Her allies set her up for kills. Where as PK is the one doing the setting up for people. This is because pk technically has the longest GB due to being able to slightly delay each stab in her triple stab.

It's also a different story in duels. pk is about being swift and safe wittling you down with bleed damage. Shaman is more about trying to stay unpredictable. Though every mix up shaman has is hard countered by dodge GB and everyone in the cast can do this. (some heros even get better punishes like centurion gets his whole cutscene combo and goki can hug.) Pk's identity needs a buff since her bleed is the only bleed in the game that doesn't have an extra function. (i've often suggested letting her deflect be the first deflect that can execute and allowing her to proc all the bleed damage ticking at once with deflect would do this.)

in terms of kit comparisons yes shaman can technically force people open with unblockables. But Pk has never needed unblockables in her kit and she's always managed to get damage in and kill. So while it's a nice bonus pk isn't really hurting because she doesn't have one. Shaman can bleed poke from any direction true. But you might as well only go for the top anyway since it's 400ms from the top and 500ms on the sides. Pk's is easier to access though. and imo less telegraphed.

Both heros have 500ms light openers. Pk has 400ms follow up light though. And pk has her zone. Which is 400ms. It's not reactable. It has a soft feint combo into bleed poke. and you can feint the second half and because that has very little recovery she can zone into an armored attack and then deflect said attack.

Prior to her rework she had probably the second hardest hitting punishes in the game wrapped with an absurd damage profile. She also had the best soft feint into GB in the game that allowed her to react GB people in attacks many others couldn't do even with prediction. And she also had a 500ms side dodge recovery and insane back dash distance. To put it simply there wasn't one thing about her kit that made her amazing. Functionally it was simple. She just abused the base game mechanics the best. Allowing her to be the safest hero in the game with insane damage.

Pk's rework regardless of why/how certain things came to be was a good direction. they just need to make her bleed/deflect unique. Then she's properly polished.

Awlkara
07-27-2018, 01:36 AM
You speak of Peacekeeper being able to get damage in. Yet I face opponents that reactively block my zone and all of my lights nearly 100% of the time.

This may work on console or in low ranks but at higher ranks nothing I do even phases opponents anymore.Whether or not I soft feint or hard feint or go for dagger cancel they see it all.

Her damage is also pitiful now.

Awlkara
07-28-2018, 12:51 AM
Bumping because Shaman is still a better version of PK

Knight_Raime
07-28-2018, 02:07 AM
You speak of Peacekeeper being able to get damage in. Yet I face opponents that reactively block my zone and all of my lights nearly 100% of the time.

This may work on console or in low ranks but at higher ranks nothing I do even phases opponents anymore.Whether or not I soft feint or hard feint or go for dagger cancel they see it all.

Her damage is also pitiful now.

If people are consistently blocking her delayed 400ms follow up they're likely abusing a bug on static guard heros. Because delayed 400ms attacks are unreactable. zone blocking means you're probably just using it too often. Her zone is 400ms and is barely telegraphed. Even on an optimal setup against good players on pc blocking her zone if it's thrown very seldumly is more luck than it is skill.

I play mid to top mid tier on console. I do struggle landing damage with her sometimes. But it's still more than doable. if shaman really was a better pk shaman would have a higher pick rate. When really at least in 4's shaman is only ever picked if someone else is going to pick a bleed enabler. (if you're doing 4's where composition matters.) pk having better access to soft feint gb's than shaman makes her a better ganker.

Awlkara
07-28-2018, 02:09 PM
If people are consistently blocking her delayed 400ms follow up they're likely abusing a bug on static guard heros. Because delayed 400ms attacks are unreactable. zone blocking means you're probably just using it too often. Her zone is 400ms and is barely telegraphed. Even on an optimal setup against good players on pc blocking her zone if it's thrown very seldumly is more luck than it is skill.

I play mid to top mid tier on console. I do struggle landing damage with her sometimes. But it's still more than doable. if shaman really was a better pk shaman would have a higher pick rate. When really at least in 4's shaman is only ever picked if someone else is going to pick a bleed enabler. (if you're doing 4's where composition matters.) pk having better access to soft feint gb's than shaman makes her a better ganker.

That actually makes sense. Only those that have a static guard have been able to see everything I do and that is where it gets really annoying. They have always seen my zone, when and when I won't dagger cancel and don't even react to feints. It was bothering me because like you said, the zone should be unreactable.

As for the pick rate, where are you seeing the percentage of players picking PK more than Shaman for season 6 because for any season before this season I'd agree with you. However, during my duels and stuff I really don't see any PK players anymore and almost all of them are really bad.

Knight_Raime
07-28-2018, 05:03 PM
That actually makes sense. Only those that have a static guard have been able to see everything I do and that is where it gets really annoying. They have always seen my zone, when and when I won't dagger cancel and don't even react to feints. It was bothering me because like you said, the zone should be unreactable.

As for the pick rate, where are you seeing the percentage of players picking PK more than Shaman for season 6 because for any season before this season I'd agree with you. However, during my duels and stuff I really don't see any PK players anymore and almost all of them are really bad.

That bug is being fixed in this next season. So proper delayed 400ms attacks will actually work against higher tiers now.
There isn't any official data on this season's pick rate yet. I'm just saying from watching skrims and general higher tier play I only see a shaman whenever say Nobushi is picked.