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View Full Version : Its good to rant: Availability of Pacific Fighters



VW-IceFire
10-30-2004, 08:39 AM
So reading these forums recently in the various attempts and efforts to grab the latest installment of the game we love has lead me to a couple of conclusions...ones that I felt I should rant about and ones that I suspect most of you will agree with.

My major point is this: self-fufilling prophecy. The addage these days is that flight sims don't sell well. Its a niche market and its hard to get into. Thats the sort of thing that we've been told for a while now...they used to be huge in PC games...flight sims used to be one of the biggest areas (that and adventure games like Kings Quest).

So here's my bit about the self fufillign prophecy. Flight sims don't sell well because they never ship in enough copies. They saw a slight downward trend, decided it wasn't profitable, and most publishers have ducked under in their attempts to even try and bring these games to market. Its shocking and amazing in this day and age that something as good as FB/AEP/PF even exists...so I count myself (and we should all do this) as lucky that there are still game developers out there who can make these games happen. Good on them!

So here's the basic breakdown. No games on the shelves means you don't attract new customers. The guys here on the forum are already sold...we'll hunt it down to the ends of the earth. But new buyers, particularly the people who make impulse buys in stores and those who buy games for family members for christmas (little Johnny likes things that fly and explode!) aren't going to see this title...ever.

So thats pretty much the end of my rant. I think for this market to improve the publishers first need to start marketing the games more accordingly...they do a decent job I must admit but a little more of a PR campaign can help them out.

The other thing is the companies like Saitek and the guys who make TrackIR should all be onboard. Sell the sim, sell their product. They should be fighting for retail space and advertising space as a sort of lobby group. Convergence isn't always a good thing but it can help in this instance I think...

Maybe I'm being unrealistic. I'm not yet an advertising diretor but I think the way sims get sold needs improvement for sales to improve. Rediculous isn't it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Have a good one!

VW-IceFire
10-30-2004, 08:39 AM
So reading these forums recently in the various attempts and efforts to grab the latest installment of the game we love has lead me to a couple of conclusions...ones that I felt I should rant about and ones that I suspect most of you will agree with.

My major point is this: self-fufilling prophecy. The addage these days is that flight sims don't sell well. Its a niche market and its hard to get into. Thats the sort of thing that we've been told for a while now...they used to be huge in PC games...flight sims used to be one of the biggest areas (that and adventure games like Kings Quest).

So here's my bit about the self fufillign prophecy. Flight sims don't sell well because they never ship in enough copies. They saw a slight downward trend, decided it wasn't profitable, and most publishers have ducked under in their attempts to even try and bring these games to market. Its shocking and amazing in this day and age that something as good as FB/AEP/PF even exists...so I count myself (and we should all do this) as lucky that there are still game developers out there who can make these games happen. Good on them!

So here's the basic breakdown. No games on the shelves means you don't attract new customers. The guys here on the forum are already sold...we'll hunt it down to the ends of the earth. But new buyers, particularly the people who make impulse buys in stores and those who buy games for family members for christmas (little Johnny likes things that fly and explode!) aren't going to see this title...ever.

So thats pretty much the end of my rant. I think for this market to improve the publishers first need to start marketing the games more accordingly...they do a decent job I must admit but a little more of a PR campaign can help them out.

The other thing is the companies like Saitek and the guys who make TrackIR should all be onboard. Sell the sim, sell their product. They should be fighting for retail space and advertising space as a sort of lobby group. Convergence isn't always a good thing but it can help in this instance I think...

Maybe I'm being unrealistic. I'm not yet an advertising diretor but I think the way sims get sold needs improvement for sales to improve. Rediculous isn't it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Have a good one!

Mjollnir111675
10-30-2004, 08:57 AM
S!,

Couldn't agree more!! Whens the last time you saw a commercial on t.v. for a flight sim? I saw one yesterday for p.s.2's ace combat 5.So what makes this sim any different?Well besides the quality realism etc. etc. etc..I have seen commercials for console games,but rarely for a puter game,well except for the Sims. No publicity till the last moment!!Can only hurt.When will the p.c. publishers wake up and see that t.v. is a great medium for exposing a product to the masses?The "Evil Empire" has used it why not everyone else? Its not that they dont sell its that they dont have mass advertisement!!
And you are right about the the amounts pressed and shipped. Johnny does INDEED like stuff that flys and explodes!!But Johnny doesnt want to spend an hour mapping keys either!!!So he'll take that P.S. 2 game instead!!
But if Johnny wants perfect water tell him to go swimming at the beach!!

Johnny:"Sir,I would like to be a pilot."
Recruiter:"Sure son,your asvab says you can and that you are smart enough."
Johnny:"Will there be perfect water?"
Recruiter:"Why do you ask?In the air is where you wanna be right?"
Johnny:"Yes but what if I get close?"
Recruiter:"Well Son if ya get that close we dont want ya in our expensive planes!What do you think this is a postcard photo op?"

Mjollnir

Peregrine_MI
10-30-2004, 09:10 AM
I think there's a good way to draw new customers, to this niche market. Preferable this sim.

What summer event draw's aviation fans to one gathering, through out the world?

Airshow's.

If you have a booth set-up showing the user made videos, along with the sim it self to purchase. I'm sure that would draw alot more attention to this sim, then ever before.

I know if I never heard of this game before, walked by a display, and saw some of the excellent movies some of you had made. I would buy a copy.

heywooood
10-30-2004, 09:13 AM
Quite right, Ice..

We are very lucky to have this sim at all..in fact, were it not a Russian developement, we would never have seen anything like it.

The western world has removed chance and risk from its vocabulary...I am in sales and we are so driven by market trends anymore that it is rediculous. We have a stock management program that tracks sales and then indicates which products to buy and which ones to drop based on sales history....it is like driving down the freeway whilst looking only in the rearview mirror. New products come along...and if no sales occur in the first three months - the program says to drop it. It takes almost one year for customers to even become aware of new products and their applications in my field..yet 3 months is all they get.

Combat flight sims are not a new genre - but they are perceived to be a niche market only so for a company to invest so much is a huge risk of the kind that are unlikely to be assumed by any company in the West anymore. M/S made a halfhearted gesture with CFS series but faded as their product was less than it needed to be.

This might have been read as a failure of the genre to have enough customer support to be worthwhile and the last attempt could have been CFS3....yikes.

Good thing 1c came along.... too bad more people dont know what they're missing.
Show this sim to everyone you know and talk about it when you get a chance...I have the forums on my desktop at work and I have sold 4 copies of PF in the last month...just people that come by my desk and notice it there or ask me what I am looking at. My brother came by one day after I had mentioned it to him - I emailed him a screenie - blown away..bought Il2 orig. and now a committed Maddox fan.

If we dont promote it, no one will - keep that in mind.

Mjollnir111675
10-30-2004, 09:29 AM
S!,

Peregrine you are correct but failed to mention another viable outlet: Aircraft museums!!
When I lived on Long Island New York I was a member of the Sea Cadets and I was one of a few who got to work and see many of the places of the Intrepid that most ppl would only dream of going.And yes the screws still turn with the tides!!When I was there though I met alot of vets who would bring their grandchildren and point to planes that they once flown.Target:Giftshop!!But now I am in ohio and live only a few miles from the Wright-Patterson airfield and the air force museum.What about in their gift shop?That to me would be a no-brainer!!Seems to me that Ubi has a bunch of idiots working P.R.!!there and lemme tell ya had they sold flight sims there in the gift shop forget about noone knowing of it!!

Mjollnir

VW-IceFire
10-30-2004, 10:28 AM
Aircraft museums, airshows...yes, this is excellent advertising. Many of the people there may not have gotten into flight simming on their computer (may not even really know about it) but the fact that a Cosair or a Spitfire just flew past them may make them interested.

I HAVE seen, to some credit, targeted advertising in a flight magazine that I buy. Which is smart...they even reviewed Pacific Fighters (very short blurb really but thats ok). So there is some hope...but yeah, need to take some risks.

diomedes33
10-30-2004, 11:14 AM
Another thing about flight sims is that they are expensive both in time and money.

If I put the amount of time I've put into carrier landings the last couple days, I would rule the virtual battlegrounds of an FPS.

To run a flightsim you have to invest a lot more money. Since flightsims are very system intensive you have to have a powerful rig to run it. I have a 2GHz with 1GB ram and a 9800Pro, every now and then I get a slideshow. Doom3 on the other hand, I can max out all the settings and it never flinches.

And not to mention the $100 dollars I spend here and $50 dollars I spend there for things like joysticks, throttles, etc ...

To a new person to the genre this can be a bit daunting. Why spend $500 dollars to play a $40 game, when I could just get Ace Combat 5 and watch all the cool movies. (I love the bait and switch comercial they have running right now)

IMHO this genre will never appeal to gamming masses because it doesn't have instant gratification. I agree the word must get out more. However you are going to appeal to the people that are looking for a challenge and not a game and of course History buffs, Engineers and Pilots. (Judging by most of the posts here make up the majority of the community)

The point I was trying to make, you really have to love these planes to stick with it. I can't think of anyone I know outside of IL2 that cares about these 60 year old planes, some don't even know why they were fighting in the first place.

Of course this is an American point of view where the only official schooling I had on WWII was 2 weeks in High school. So its no wonder why the average person here doesn't know anything about the era.