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Playing_Mantis
07-20-2018, 06:41 AM
So I've been playing orochi and after some time now it feels like everyone has figured out the new moves. she is still much better but i still have the same issues as before to be honest. storm rush is mostly figured out along with her other stuff. i still can't open turtles who simply won't attack, can't counter attack a non attacker right? so how do i open them up? class is better but does anyone else feel like its still missing that opener every other class has? still facing the same issues as before. if I'm wrong please let me know.

Archaelion
07-20-2018, 07:24 AM
Needs unblockables like the berserker.

Siegfried-Z
07-20-2018, 10:46 AM
Well 400ms lights chain is a good opener no ?

Alustar.
07-20-2018, 11:26 AM
when I'm getting to the point that I can shut down light spam from orochi. Not the first hit, but by the servings I'm usually good, but if orochi does get an unlockable, his light chains need to be slowed down to compensate.

Vakris_One
07-20-2018, 11:27 AM
Well 400ms lights chain is a good opener no ?
On console perhaps. On PC it gets parried often at higher levels thus forcing Orochi back into his turtle/counter attacker role. On PC he still very much has no openers.

SenBotsu893
07-20-2018, 02:19 PM
Well 400ms lights chain is a good opener no ?

not sure if sarcasm or actually oblivious.

i gues it is sarcasm since he said chain and not starter. wich already indicates it is not something you can do from neutral.

but have to agree with the general consesus. especially on pc he still has the same problem as before.

no way for him to bypass blocking or force a reaction from his opponent.

SenBotsu893
07-20-2018, 02:24 PM
when I'm getting to the point that I can shut down light spam from orochi. Not the first hit, but by the servings I'm usually good, but if orochi does get an unlockable, his light chains need to be slowed down to compensate.

there are a lot of youtube videos of certain new heros that have both 400 ms attacks AND unblockable moves. if those characters are going to be realeased as they were in this closed test, then there is no reason for orochi not to get some form of unblockable moves on top of his current kit.

Knight_Raime
07-20-2018, 05:12 PM
If the person is turtling up and blocking everything then storm rush gets you free damage because of the delayed 400ms follow up. Which is not reactable regardless of platform or setup. Parrying storm rush is not a viable option because he can cancel into a deflect anytime before the actual attack starts. And because both of his side attacks are extremely fast and you can't see the indicator for the initial part of the attack you're unlikely to even guess the side he's attacking from correctly.
Riptide pretty much punishes any offensive attack nearly on reaction. but it can't deal with undodgable attacks. and it's not a good idea to use on a move that can be hard/soft feinted. However zone attack is great at dealing with GB happy people.

Rochi is not meant to open a turtle. But he's not useless against one. If you're dying to one you're either playing too predictably as orochi or the person turtling is actually amazing at the game. Either way there isn't a problem. Only things i'd like to see orochi have at this point is a return to being able to delay his storm rush input. and a change back to his old targeting system with storm rush. Potentially the ability to whiff riptide and still chain into something. and potentially returning the ability for him to chain into an attack after a hurricane blast whiff.

Baturai
07-20-2018, 05:39 PM
Orochi Better now ??? Dont make me laugh please.... old orochi was simple Yea, but he had the Damage.
A very good opinion about world rank 1 Orochi
About Orochis current State in the Game.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4axm6BJc5d8&t=8s

Knight_Raime
07-20-2018, 06:05 PM
Orochi Better now ??? Dont make me laugh please.... old orochi was simple Yea, but he had the Damage.
A very good opinion about world rank 1 Orochi
About Orochis current State in the Game.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4axm6BJc5d8&t=8s

There are several easy target things in this video that I can pick apart.

Firstly he's talking about tourney based competitive comps. You know. playing with the best of the best. Which you don't play in that bracket. and even if you did that's not where the majority of players play.

Second his "main" issue is that orochi can't crack a turtle. This isn't an issue. Because orochi is not designed to crack turtles. Not every hero is designed to open up someone. And again the large majority of people who play this game and even people from this forum do not play against good turtles. So the likely hood of someone being able to block/parry everything an orochi does is slim.

Third he starts talking about storm rush. his first mistake is saying "you can just block the fast side and react to the other 2 sides. Top is never used on someone who waits. because it's the slowest and is meant for roll catch/dodge. If you block the fast side that means orochi gets a delayed 400ms light attack which is unreactable and is free damage. Which can be followed by a third delayed 400ms attack for more damage that can't be reacted to. Also the indicator is hidden in the first 300ms? of the attack. meaning if the person is only going for right or left side you realistically can't react to which side is being chosen. Also concerning storm rush he states you can "just attack them out of it." which is only realistically possible from the top attack in SR. the orochi player can simply cancel into deflect before his attack starts. and because of that and how fast the 2 side attacks are you're not shutting the storm rush out.

He's now talking about riptide strike. Says it's the only dodge attack that can be Gbed out of. Which is factually false. All other dodge attacks are GB vulnerable. Further more this is a move that is capable of punishing even fast attacks basically on reaction. If you're using it vs moves that can be feinted into or have undodgable properties you're using it wrong. If you want to punish those moves parry/deflect mix up exist.

Also this video is out dated. because you can delay the second light with riptide and storm rush now. on top of that I did mention some suggestions that could be done to rochi.
"Only things i'd like to see orochi have at this point is a return to being able to delay his storm rush input. and a change back to his old targeting system with storm rush. Potentially the ability to whiff riptide and still chain into something. and potentially returning the ability for him to chain into an attack after a hurricane blast whiff."

So.

SenBotsu893
07-20-2018, 06:16 PM
If the person is turtling up and blocking everything then storm rush gets you free damage because of the delayed 400ms follow up. Which is not reactable regardless of platform or setup. Parrying storm rush is not a viable option because he can cancel into a deflect anytime before the actual attack starts. And because both of his side attacks are extremely fast and you can't see the indicator for the initial part of the attack you're unlikely to even guess the side he's attacking from correctly.

no need for storm rush mindgames if you can simply hit him out of it. storm rush is only on option on a few heroes that have neither reach and speed to hit orochi out of it.
it would be a good opening move if his forward movement speed would be faster similar to shamans forward dodge heavy wich is basically the same move.

currently if you preemtivly attack the orochi while he is in stormrush you will hit him during his running animation and in that part ´wich is no longer feintable


sadly the only thing that will give a hero a leg up in the game is access to some form of unblockable/bash/kick (idealy with a big delay window to for easy gb fishing).
the whole "counter-attacker doesnt need an opener" thing doesnt work if there are already counter-attacker heroes in the game that have exactly that.
aaaaaand who knows? maaaaaaaybe there will be even more heroes in the future that have that as well.

Knight_Raime
07-20-2018, 06:24 PM
no need for storm rush mindgames if you can simply hit him out of it. storm rush is only on option on a few heroes that have neither reach and speed to hit orochi out of it.
it would be a good opening move if his forward movement speed would be faster similar to shamans forward dodge heavy wich is basically the same move.

currently if you preemtivly attack the orochi while he is in stormrush you will hit him during his running animation and in that part ´wich is no longer feintable


sadly the only thing that will give a hero a leg up in the game is access to some form of unblockable/bash/kick (idealy with a big delay window to for easy gb fishing).
the whole "counter-attacker doesnt need an opener" thing doesnt work if there are already counter-attacker heroes in the game that have exactly that.
aaaaaand who knows? maaaaaaaybe there will be even more heroes in the future that have that as well.

You can cancel and deflect if someone attempts to attack you out of it. You can't physically attack someone out of the left or right side attack because they're too fast to react to. The indicator being hidden prevents you from knowing the attack early. So attacking someone out of it is unlikely.
Shaman's dash heavy is garbage because it's far more telegraphed and you can easily dodge it for a GB from any direction they choose. poor example.

400ms lights are an under played advantage I guess. Orochi is THE counter attacker. Just because other heros might have counter attacker traits doesn't make them one. And as i've mentioned in other threads i highly doubt anyone here actually plays against a decent turtle that can shut out your offensive play. People complain about homoginization. Giving every hero an opener is exactly that. Orochi doesn't need one. He's only lacking in high/top tier play. and even there he has 400ms lights. If he really was as bad as people make him out to be he wouldn't be in S tier right now.

People can't go around waiving competitive players opinions on the hero and then ignore the tier list specifically made by one of the best players in the game who's constantly and consistently won tournaments in this game.

SenBotsu893
07-20-2018, 06:41 PM
You can cancel and deflect if someone attempts to attack you out of it. You can't physically attack someone out of the left or right side attack because they're too fast to react to. The indicator being hidden prevents you from knowing the attack early. So attacking someone out of it is unlikely.
Shaman's dash heavy is garbage because it's far more telegraphed and you can easily dodge it for a GB from any direction they choose. poor example.


you CAN know when the attack strikes simply from gauging the distance since the storm rush activates on distance instead of timing. many players need to learn that the fighting widget is not your only way to tell an attack. well gues thats why no one knows how to block on realistic dominion.

but back to topic: shaman doesnt have that problem she can hold/cancel the beginning and let go depending on the opponents reaction. poor example.


never said the 400ms is useless BUT you still need to first get to that part in your chain and thats the problem.
and correct me if im wrong but i think 400ms with hyperarmor and higher damage would be better right? more so if they are less telegraphed. so i gues berserker is then SS tier right now?

Knight_Raime
07-20-2018, 06:50 PM
you CAN know when the attack strikes simply from gauging the distance since the storm rush activates on distance instead of timing. many players need to learn that the fighting widget is not your only way to tell an attack. well gues thats why no one knows how to block on realistic dominion.

but back to topic: shaman doesnt have that problem she can hold/cancel the beginning and let go depending on the opponents reaction. poor example.


never said the 400ms is useless BUT you still need to first get to that part in your chain and thats the problem.
and correct me if im wrong but i think 400ms with hyperarmor and higher damage would be better right? more so if they are less telegraphed. so i gues berserker is then SS tier right now?

Hence why I stated I doubt anyone here fights good turtles. because that is a skill a good player would have. Not what most of us have.
Holding to try and bait an early reaction isn't strong in a 1v1. And no. it's not a poor example. Because her everything is more telegraphed than what orochi does. Jumping at you with full indicator time is far more of a tell then mastering a specific distance with no additional help. And storm rush vs WCR in terms of punishment SR has less of a harsh punish because at worst you eat a light. where as at worse with WCR you get a gb punish.

Yes zerk is S tier. iirc the current S tier heros for duel are zerk, orochi, conq, and glad. (though do note that the tier list was recently changed to account for the instant guard switch bug.) which is being fixed in next season. Without that bug in mind the heros I listed were the S tier heros.

SenBotsu893
07-20-2018, 08:03 PM
Hence why I stated I doubt anyone here fights good turtles. because that is a skill a good player would have. Not what most of us have.
Holding to try and bait an early reaction isn't strong in a 1v1. And no. it's not a poor example. Because her everything is more telegraphed than what orochi does. Jumping at you with full indicator time is far more of a tell then mastering a specific distance with no additional help. And storm rush vs WCR in terms of punishment SR has less of a harsh punish because at worst you eat a light. where as at worse with WCR you get a gb punish.

Yes zerk is S tier. iirc the current S tier heros for duel are zerk, orochi, conq, and glad. (though do note that the tier list was recently changed to account for the instant guard switch bug.) which is being fixed in next season. Without that bug in mind the heros I listed were the S tier heros.

whoa whoa whoa arent you going to bring up the season 5 statistic the devs posted and claim it to be undienable factual truth about what heroes are the good ones???

im impressed that anyone on this forum would actually look a bit deeper into the matter instead of just blindly taking a look at 45% winrate and scream buff pls.


i digress again...

ok i give you the punish advantage on SR.

but WCR is still a way quicker process to activate and follow through than SR.

giving the opponent less time to adabt and making them more prudent to actually dodge out of habit just for them to fall into the bait trap.
furthermore the 400 ms chain hit after the SR can be blocked or parried. you made it sound as if it was guaranteed wich is not the case.

the options after WCR are way better.. directly into ub mix up, heavy into softfeint, let the heavy fly,
not to mention WCR itself is stronger than SR in itself even though the attacks share the same MS regarding each direction.

so WCR is still the better SR even after the SR remodelling.

Knight_Raime
07-20-2018, 08:14 PM
whoa whoa whoa arent you going to bring up the season 5 statistic the devs posted and claim it to be undienable factual truth about what heroes are the good ones???

im impressed that anyone on this forum would actually look a bit deeper into the matter instead of just blindly taking a look at 45% winrate and scream buff pls.


i digress again...

ok i give you the punish advantage on SR.

but WCR is still a way quicker process to activate and follow through than SR.

giving the opponent less time to adabt and making them more prudent to actually dodge out of habit just for them to fall into the bait trap.
furthermore the 400 ms chain hit after the SR can be blocked or parried. you made it sound as if it was guaranteed wich is not the case.

the options after WCR are way better.. directly into ub mix up, heavy into softfeint, let the heavy fly,
not to mention WCR itself is stronger than SR in itself even though the attacks share the same MS regarding each direction.

so WCR is still the better SR even after the SR remodelling.

Lmao no. I ****ing hate people who crutch on stats for their argument of any kind. it's absurdly annoying. And (unrelated) but over watch is a good example of a game that cares waaaaay too much about a forced 50% W/L ratio. And imo it's one of the main reasons that game is forever ruined.

Quicker animation wise I suppose. I think it's down to whatever you're more comfortable with reacting to telegraphing wise. I deal with dodge attacks far easier than other things. But that's just me. And yes you technically can block/parry a delayed 400ms follow up. But not on reaction. Doing so is largely luck based. Or you're great at reading your opponent and so you can predict which angle he'll delay attack from.

I'd have to disagree on that. Her UB left heavy is really slow. So you know when they commit. And if you dodge it you get a free GB on her. Soft feinting to GB doesn't work because of how slow the UB is. it's not pressuring me. and her dodge cancel into a side heavy is also beaten by turtling. For this mix up to be effective imo she'd either need a shorter UB animation and the attack she could cancel into would have to be a fast attack from the opposite side rather than a dodge heavy. This is why zerks mix up works so well.
So you're correct in the potential damage after making it in on WCR is better. but i wouldn't say it's flat out better.

Also I just went and looked back at the patch notes for his rework. it states that the attack of SR starts either the moment he reaches someone or 400ms into the attack. So if i'm doing it from range you're not going to be able to react as easily to whatever I choose to do versus if I did SR in your face. Since at that point you can time the 400ms and then respond. I guess this is why people are struggling with using SR. I only use SR out of range. Not in someones face. only time I do that is on a high recovery move. if I want to punish without a feint or deflect on someone in their face I typically riptide. providing that's not an attack that can be feinted in anyway.

Archaelion
07-20-2018, 09:03 PM
Needs unblockable

Baturai
07-20-2018, 11:11 PM
I woud be Perfectly FIne when his Riptide strike was more safe while performing it. its really anoying to get Gbroken Halfway and it'd be really nice if it could be delayable for 200 ms ...( After backdodge )
Zephyrrflash is as slow as a Heavy but its light attack this has to change.. make it Heavy
Stormrush into gb should come back . it was a sucha good move.. expecially against Bash type attack spammers. and Increase its damage to 25.

Lord_Cherubi
07-21-2018, 11:40 AM
Ever since i first played trough the campaign i've been waiting for them to add a kick for Orochi similiar to what Tozen does in the boss fight. But it should propably be only available after a chain so you can't spam it too hard

SuguruMisato
07-21-2018, 01:47 PM
You can ****ing spam everyone with light attacks from every direction (unlike predictable Aramusha) and you want something more? They had perfect Orochi since beginning, then ****ed him up and now gave him ****ing broken light spam. GG UBISOSFT, ANOTHER GREAT MOVE. FIX YOUR SERVERS FINALLY. INVEST IN THEM, OR I WON'T INVEST IN ANY OF YOUR ****TY GAMES.

purplehaze1782
07-22-2018, 01:21 AM
Im not sure where to go to post this but I wish Ghost recon wildlands would put in helicopters or vehicles in PvP mode maybe some one can pass this along and it will be seen

Vakris_One
07-22-2018, 02:49 PM
Im not sure where to go to post this
The Ghost Recon Wildlands forum would be a good start.

Cyroy95
07-22-2018, 10:35 PM
I'm curious about the season 6 win rates, especially Orochi's. I can barely find a match (either 4v4, 3v3 or 1v1) where I encounter him rarely. It's almost always at least one Orochi on the enemy team and when it comes to duels and brawls, I think to my experience I encounter him at least 1/5 games. I'm sure he's doing much better then most "Ermegherd, Orochi need unbluckeble" people think he's doing.

DefiledDragon
07-23-2018, 06:04 AM
I'm curious about the season 6 win rates, especially Orochi's. I can barely find a match (either 4v4, 3v3 or 1v1) where I encounter him rarely. It's almost always at least one Orochi on the enemy team and when it comes to duels and brawls, I think to my experience I encounter him at least 1/5 games. I'm sure he's doing much better then most "Ermegherd, Orochi need unbluckeble" people think he's doing.

Orochi is **** tbh. If you know how to block and counter a guard break, what can he do? Really? What can he do? Wait for you to attack? Well whoopdi ****ing do. Orochi's "op"ness is way overrated imo. Yes, light spam is difficult to deal with, but that's more down to the latency of internet gaming rather than the actual character. The only thing that makes Orochi viable is lag imo, but then it's 06:03 and I haven't been to bed yet and I've been drinking lots of "mead" so take my opinion with a pinch of salt, which this forum does NOT lack.

Cyroy95
07-23-2018, 11:26 AM
[QUOTE=DefiledDragon;13601500]Orochi is **** tbh. If you know how to block and counter a guard break, what can he do? Really? What can he do? Wait for you to attack? Well whoopdi ****ing do. Orochi's "op"ness is way overrated imo. Yes, light spam is difficult to deal with, but that's more down to the latency of internet gaming rather than the actual character. The only thing that makes Orochi viable is lag imo, but then it's 06:03 and I haven't been to bed yet and I've been drinking lots of "mead" so take my opinion with a pinch of salt, which this forum does NOT lack.[/QUOT

He has plenty of things in my opinion. If I feel like stomping I just pick Orochi and do very well but that's all anecdotal. The numbers'll be out soon and that will shed light on everything.

DefiledDragon
07-23-2018, 02:59 PM
[QUOTE=DefiledDragon;13601500]Orochi is **** tbh. If you know how to block and counter a guard break, what can he do? Really? What can he do? Wait for you to attack? Well whoopdi ****ing do. Orochi's "op"ness is way overrated imo. Yes, light spam is difficult to deal with, but that's more down to the latency of internet gaming rather than the actual character. The only thing that makes Orochi viable is lag imo, but then it's 06:03 and I haven't been to bed yet and I've been drinking lots of "mead" so take my opinion with a pinch of salt, which this forum does NOT lack.[/QUOT

He has plenty of things in my opinion. If I feel like stomping I just pick Orochi and do very well but that's all anecdotal. The numbers'll be out soon and that will shed light on everything.

His movelist is pretty extensive, I'll give you that, but in my experience it's pretty much impossible to open somebody up unless they fall for feints or they get super aggressive on you. Don't get me wrong, I really like the character and enjoy using him, but whenever I do I always feel like I lack the ability to take the fight to my opponent. I'm not, however, discounting the possibility that I just suck with Orochi though.

Jediknight482
07-23-2018, 03:24 PM
400 ms lights are not a good opener. Im on console and can tell you right now i'll parry that crap all day. He has no openers and thats his problem. Is he better? a lot better. but against somebody who turtles? hes nothing but fodder. you might as well run away and fight someone else. Everybody else got huge reworks and every dlc character broke the game more and more. What orochi needs now is an unblockable or two like everyone else has.